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At What Point Did They Start Lining Used Bandsaws In Gold?

by UncannyValleyWoods
posted 08-17-2016 02:07 AM


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71 replies

71 replies so far

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

1243 posts in 2535 days


#1 posted 08-17-2016 02:16 AM

I’ve never had much luck with used machinery in any of the places I’ve lived. I don’t know where the cheap tools everyone says they always get are, but they aren’t where I am either.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

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nightguy

213 posts in 1202 days


#2 posted 08-17-2016 02:25 AM

A lot is locality!! Was that a Merlot or a Cab you drank tonight???

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7503 posts in 2739 days


#3 posted 08-17-2016 02:28 AM

OWWM Rule No. 8: It always appears there are more old woodworking machines in places where you aren’t.

Actually, your story is not unique in the least. For every 100 machines that show up, maybe 1 or 2 will be a worthwhile purchase, and maybe 1 out of 1000 or more will be a killer deal. Sometimes there will be several show up all around the same time, and sometimes there won’t be squat for months. If you are patient and ready to pounce when one shows up, you can and will find some fantastic deals. Problem is, most people today are searching for instant gratification and unwilling to wait (or control their urge to jump on the first pseudo-good deal that shows up because they are impatient).

Cheers,
Brad

PS: And the above doesn’t even take into account all the deals that came and went without you even seeing them because they went so quick.

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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Woodknack

12927 posts in 2920 days


#4 posted 08-17-2016 05:49 AM

You should try to buy a used drill press around here. Decent ones sell like ice water in hell.
What’s worse is old machine parts. People ask stupid amounts of money for them under the belief that you have to pay. I know guys who have parts they’ve been trying to sell for over 10 years. I guess no matter how long it takes, they’ll wait until inflation catches up with their unreasonable prices. Have an uncle like that, he’ll sit on something for decades until that one person (sucker) finally comes along to pay his price. Not me, once I decide to sell something I want it gone and out of my life.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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JAAune

1872 posts in 2857 days


#5 posted 08-17-2016 06:01 AM

Part of the problem is the inflation of new bandsaw prices caused by companies tacking on tons of features that aren’t all that useful for bandsaws.

Take this Powermatic for example.

Powermatic 1791216K Model PWBS-14CS Deluxe 14-Inch

It has so many extras it ends up running over $1,000. But ultimately, my $500 Delta machine with the Kreg fence add-on works just as well because it has all the important features and left off the unnecessary ones.

When people see new bandsaws selling for $1,100 they will assume their used ones are worth $500.

In the Chicago area, I have no problem finding good, used tools. Right now there is a decent Rockwell 14” for sale for $350. It is worth every penny of that because it has the good guide blocks and includes a Kreg fence which negates the need to spend over $100 to get a nice after-market fence.

-- See my work at http://remmertstudios.com and http://altaredesign.com

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AlaskaGuy

5414 posts in 2849 days


#6 posted 08-17-2016 06:45 AM

You can’t blame a guy for getting all that the traffic will bear. And then there are the low ballers. The low ballers only get one chance with me.

I away though a seller has the right to asked what ever he wants and a buyer has the right to refuse it.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2404 days


#7 posted 08-17-2016 11:19 AM

These are some very cathartic responses… Thanks


I ve never had much luck with used machinery in any of the places I ve lived. I don t know where the cheap tools everyone says they always get are, but they aren t where I am either.

I was really fortunate to run into some good deals on the West Coast. You get a bunch of wealthyish people that buy brand new equipment, use it once then sell it for pennies. Still got my six inch Jet jointer that I bought in mint condition from a surfer guy for $75! It was less than four months old when I bought it.


A lot is locality!! Was that a Merlot or a Cab you drank tonight???

It was a Voigner… LOL.. A good one too.


OWWM Rule No. 8: It always appears there are more old woodworking machines in places where you aren’t.

Actually, your story is not unique in the least. For every 100 machines that show up, maybe 1 or 2 will be a worthwhile purchase, and maybe 1 out of 1000 or more will be a killer deal. Sometimes there will be several show up all around the same time, and sometimes there won t be squat for months. If you are patient and ready to pounce when one shows up, you can and will find some fantastic deals. Problem is, most people today are searching for instant gratification and unwilling to wait (or control their urge to jump on the first pseudo-good deal that shows up because they are impatient).

Yup. Good thing I’m one patient mofo. I’m just ready to get on with it and start making some bandsaw boxes again. LOL

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

View ellen35's profile

ellen35

2742 posts in 3972 days


#8 posted 08-17-2016 11:25 AM

Human nature: everyone wants to sell high and buy low…no matter what the product (house, tools, etc.).

-- "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Voltaire

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2404 days


#9 posted 08-17-2016 11:29 AM



Human nature: everyone wants to sell high and buy low…no matter what the product (house, tools, etc.).

- ellen35

I don’t know about that….many Americans have proved that they LOVE to pay too much for a thing just so they can brag about how much they paid for said thing… That’s what America was built on…status symbols. ;-)

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

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bigblockyeti

6071 posts in 2260 days


#10 posted 08-17-2016 01:30 PM

I have 9” bench top bandsaw and a 20” bandsaw that is for now a dedicated resaw machine and the 9” saw leaves much to be desired most of the time. I too am looking for a decent used 14” bandsaw and most of the Delta and Rockwell machines in decent shape (not rusted all to hell) around me are hovering in the $600 range, maybe a little less for an open stand but not much. I missed a nice full cabinet Rockwell for $165, the ad had been up for an hour and I was the second to call, needless to say the first caller bought it. I have numerous alerts set up, but I don’t check email on my phone so that probably cost me the first caller spot. I have also tried to reason with sellers as to why I think something is worth what I’m willing to pay, but they’re non receptive every time and whether or not they sell for their asking price, who know? At least on ebay you can see what something sold for.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2404 days


#11 posted 08-17-2016 01:40 PM



I have 9” bench top bandsaw and a 20” bandsaw that is for now a dedicated resaw machine and the 9” saw leaves much to be desired most of the time. I too am looking for a decent used 14” bandsaw and most of the Delta and Rockwell machines in decent shape (not rusted all to hell) around me are hovering in the $600 range, maybe a little less for an open stand but not much. I missed a nice full cabinet Rockwell for $165, the ad had been up for an hour and I was the second to call, needless to say the first caller bought it. I have numerous alerts set up, but I don t check email on my phone so that probably cost me the first caller spot. I have also tried to reason with sellers as to why I think something is worth what I m willing to pay, but they re non receptive every time and whether or not they sell for their asking price, who know? At least on ebay you can see what something sold for.

- bigblockyeti

Funny you mention Ebay. I actually sent a pretty scathing message to a guy the other day selling an early 90's delta 14inch for $1595... It was mind boggling and there was absolutely nothing to justify this asking price.

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

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bigblockyeti

6071 posts in 2260 days


#12 posted 08-17-2016 02:47 PM

The Delta 28-303 does have a two speed gearbox and a variety of pulley steps to choose different speeds so I can be expected to be a bit more expensive given the additional versatility it offers but that is still WAY too high! I just check my area again and not too far away there’s Delta 52-965, nearly the exact same thing only without the gearbox, listed for $450 and it looks just as good + made in USA. If I really needed one, I would be all over it!

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

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onoitsmatt

437 posts in 1716 days


#13 posted 08-17-2016 03:19 PM

The only listings you’ll see on craigslist are the ones that didn’t sell. The $200 delta 14” band saw sold 10 minutes after it was listed. So unless you are checking cl at least every hour or so, you’ll never see the good deals (or even the decent deals) listed, only the overpriced listings last. I’ve been watching for a drill press for several months. I see good deals about every 2 weeks but they are always too far away. And they are always sold by the end of the day.

-- Matt - Phoenix, AZ

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2404 days


#14 posted 08-17-2016 03:49 PM



The only listings you ll see on craigslist are the ones that didn t sell. The $200 delta 14” band saw sold 10 minutes after it was listed. So unless you are checking cl at least every hour or so, you ll never see the good deals (or even the decent deals) listed, only the overpriced listings last. I ve been watching for a drill press for several months. I see good deals about every 2 weeks but they are always too far away. And they are always sold by the end of the day.

- onoitsmatt

You say that, but a lot of those guys with good deals don’t know how to delete their listings. There was a Delta Rockwell sitting on CL for three weeks listed for $150. I must have emailed that guy ten times over the two weeks, basically just asking if the durn thing was still available. The guy ended up telling me it was available…I drove to his house to pick it up and as I was arriving there was another guy leaving with the saw in the back of his truck. The old cooter thought he’d been talking to one person and he’d actually been talking to two or three. Talk about frustrating.

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

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Loren

10477 posts in 4188 days


#15 posted 08-17-2016 04:01 PM

Look/ask on owwm.org – there are a lot of collectors
in the area that have machines they’d sell reasonably
to a good home. I’m not making any promises but
a lot of these guys hit auctions and pick up surplus
machines like crazy.

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2650 days


#16 posted 08-17-2016 05:00 PM

My wife is a trained economist so we have lots of conversations about the free market…and I know a lot of you guys are hardcore right wing capitalists…which…I suppose is the reason it seems like some guys are intentionally creating a bubble in the used saw market.

Ask her if a bubble is based on listed prices or sale prices. ;^)

You didn’t say where you moved from, but the northeast has seemed to have higher used tool prices for as long as I’ve been working wood, around 25 years.

Similar to real estate, part of this I attribute to higher average incomes, and part to scarcity. The average income part affects not only what people are willing to pay, but also what it would take for them to bother selling something. If a saw is only worth X, an owner may decide to hang onto it for odd jobs, if it’s worth Y, it’s worth the trouble to sell. Also, a more affluent area would probably have less need or drive to sell used items at any price.

The scarcity part comes along in an area where there are simply fewer alternatives available at any price, due to local economies based less on hands-on work and a lack of shop classes in schools, creating fewer hobybists and smaller shops who might sell tools you’re looking for.

As I’ve equipped and re-equipped my own shop, I’ve had no problem selling my used stuff at what people outside my area considered crazy prices, I even surprised myself a few times, but the lack of inexpensive used equipment often pushed me towards new as I improved my gear. Remember, used prices aren’t really based on what the seller originally paid, but on percentage of a truly comparable new item’s price.

If prices are artificially stupid high, you’d have plenty of alternatives from which to choose. Since you don’t…

Also remember, Craigslist and similar are free to list items. There’s nothing lost on an item that doesn’t sell, as there is in cases where the seller pays for ads. A seller can always relist and reduce the price of an item that doesn’t sell, but you can’t raise the price if an able and willing buyer shows up with cash.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5414 posts in 2849 days


#17 posted 08-17-2016 05:01 PM

http://kenai.craigslist.org/tls/5730961310.html

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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bigblockyeti

6071 posts in 2260 days


#18 posted 08-17-2016 05:32 PM

Oggie touched on a pretty relevant topic. When the housing market when to crap in 2009 (in some areas late 2008) many were faced with the choice of divulging themselves of stuff they didn’t absolutely need or be homeless. Boats and motorcycles were the first to go and as thing progressed more and more excellent deals became available for those in a position to buy. Living outside of Cleveland and only ~2 hours from Detroit, I saw some amazing deals on everything imaginable that would qualify as a luxury, woodworking tools/machines included. The best deal I saw that I couldn’t act on primarily due to space constraints was an entire very well equipped wood shop of machines all less than 10 years old and used lightly that almost certainly cost upwards of $35K – $40K all being sold as a single lot for $4K. Being closer to metropolitan areas does tend to offer more options, but as previously stated, what you’re seeing almost all of the time is what’s not selling, the deals come and then go often very, very quickly.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

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MikesProjects

172 posts in 2442 days


#19 posted 08-17-2016 05:46 PM

Dont forget about all the tool flippers, yes there is such a thing. I missed out on several deals, one a columbian vise $40 & the other 3 months later a 20” walker turner bandsaw $100, each was a new posting… same guy bought & reposted them for sale, he actually wanted $1800 for the bandsaw that I almost got but he best me there. Here is one of his many listings in the Los Angeles CL, he is in bell gardens fiy . https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/tls/5729174679.html
this dude must have 100 postings from jointers , sanders, saws, lathes, you name it. He is a true craigslist hustler. Half the time you can spot his white trailer in the back ground. Hes been at it for over 5 years that I know if. It may just be a hobby for him to fix up old power tools to resell, more power to him. It must cost a lot of money & time to flip tools & to store them. I have seen other deals pop up on CL & the next day he repost the item for more than triple FIRM, haha.. Posted on craigslist for months & years.

The good deals are out there especially if you are supplying your shop with stuff you may not be looking for at the time, I often will buy something not because I need it at that moment but rather because its such a good deal, timing is everything.

-- -Mike, Southern California, YouTube User ( Give & Take )

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2404 days


#20 posted 08-18-2016 01:45 AM

Ask her if a bubble is based on listed prices or sale prices. ;^)

See, this is the weird economics of saw buying. The only data available is the listed price since most people don’t advertise the final sales price. This leads to a situation in which everyone believes their saws are worth 6 or 700 bucks simply because those are the list prices they see about. I really think a solid paper could be devoted to this. ;-)


Dont forget about all the tool flippers, yes there is such a thing.
- MikesProjects

This is definitely something I’m seeing around here. I saw a saw listed for less than $200 a few days ago, I missed it, then it popped back up a few days later with a new seller and an additional $400 on the listing price.

I also totally almost bought a Shopfox saw from that guy you mentioned in L.A, when we were on that coast a couple years ago…. Also met a guy there who purchased from auctions and actually turned around great equipment and lumber at unbelievably great prices. He made a killing at it too…He was all set up down there on the beach in Long Beach.

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

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Fishwacker

1 post in 1187 days


#21 posted 08-18-2016 08:13 AM



Dont forget about all the tool flippers, yes there is such a thing. I missed out on several deals, one a columbian vise $40 & the other 3 months later a 20” walker turner bandsaw $100, each was a new posting… same guy bought & reposted them for sale, he actually wanted $1800 for the bandsaw that I almost got but he best me there. Here is one of his many listings in the Los Angeles CL, he is in bell gardens fiy . https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/tls/5729174679.html
this dude must have 100 postings from jointers , sanders, saws, lathes, you name it. He is a true craigslist hustler. Half the time you can spot his white trailer in the back ground. Hes been at it for over 5 years that I know if. It may just be a hobby for him to fix up old power tools to resell, more power to him. It must cost a lot of money & time to flip tools & to store them. I have seen other deals pop up on CL & the next day he repost the item for more than triple FIRM, haha.. Posted on craigslist for months & years.

The good deals are out there especially if you are supplying your shop with stuff you may not be looking for at the time, I often will buy something not because I need it at that moment but rather because its such a good deal, timing is everything.

- MikesProjects


I too have viewed the Bell Gardens ads and even considered taking a look at the Walker Turner he’s been posting for a long time, but just couldn’t come up with the $550 he’s firmly asking, plus he’s too far North of me. I found a 14” Walker Turner in Oceanside last weekend and went up to look. Turned out to be a nice saw for $275 minus the original base. He had a termite ridden base with it, but I declined dragging that home. I’ll make a base for it using the youtube video and 2 X 4s. I agree that timing is everything and you have to be ready to strike when the right deal comes along. Patience and persistence. Good luck in you searches.

View Ken90712's profile

Ken90712

17782 posts in 3729 days


#22 posted 08-18-2016 08:50 AM

I haven’t had much luck with used tool or machines as well. Especially here in Los Angeles everyone thinks there items are gold as you mentioned. I mostly just bite the bullet and search the internet and buy new. Even Ebay is being taken over by power sellers. I fell your frustration.

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

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OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2650 days


#23 posted 08-18-2016 11:48 AM

See, this is the weird economics of saw buying. The only data available is the listed price since most people don’t advertise the final sales price. This leads to a situation in which everyone believes their saws are worth 6 or 700 bucks simply because those are the list prices they see about. I really think a solid paper could be devoted to this. ;-)

Maybe Dan Ariely’s next book…

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3454 days


#24 posted 08-18-2016 12:27 PM

All I can say is, do you want to spend an inordinate amount of time and gas $$$ trying to find a ‘braggin’ rights “deal”, or do you want to get back out into the shop and actually get busy WW-ing? How often are you planning on moving that would/could possibly negate buying new equipment? Moving too frequently is not good for a WW hobby.

FWIW, after I finally realized that WW-ing was MY desire, I bit the bullet and bought a new TS, BS, Planer in order to start my WW shop and did manage to pay ~70% of new in a used 8” spiral head jointer (got lucky here but was ready to buy new). I eventually also added a new 20” DP, after putting up with an 8” DP for over 20yr. That was well worth the splurge BTW…

8-)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2404 days


#25 posted 08-18-2016 01:21 PM



All I can say is, do you want to spend an inordinate amount of time and gas $$$ trying to find a braggin rights “deal”, or do you want to get back out into the shop and actually get busy WW-ing? How often are you planning on moving that would/could possibly negate buying new equipment? Moving too frequently is not good for a WW hobby.

- HorizontalMike

Yeah dude…I’ve owned and sold LOTS of new equipment over the years. I’m sorry that we move around a lot, but my wife is a military officer and duty calls. I don’t really have a say in the matter..because ya know…it’s the military. But since I’ve given up so many other parts of my life for our service commitment, I’m not gonna give up woodworking. Hell, I just took a nearly two year sabbatical from my shop so I could raise an infant.

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

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skatefriday

453 posts in 2022 days


#26 posted 08-18-2016 05:23 PM


Yeah dude…I ve owned and sold LOTS of new equipment over the years. I m sorry that we move around a lot, but my wife is a military officer and duty calls. I don t really have a say in the matter..because ya know…it s the military. But since I ve given up so many other parts of my life for our service commitment, I m not gonna give up woodworking. Hell, I just took a nearly two year sabbatical from my shop so I could raise an infant.

- UncannyValleyWoods

Wouldn’t it be cheaper to hire a freight company to move your stuff for you?

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2404 days


#27 posted 08-18-2016 05:34 PM

Yeah dude…I ve owned and sold LOTS of new equipment over the years. I m sorry that we move around a lot, but my wife is a military officer and duty calls. I don t really have a say in the matter..because ya know…it s the military. But since I ve given up so many other parts of my life for our service commitment, I m not gonna give up woodworking. Hell, I just took a nearly two year sabbatical from my shop so I could raise an infant.

- UncannyValleyWoods

Wouldn t it be cheaper to hire a freight company to move your stuff for you?

- skatefriday

The AF always moves our stuff for us, but we have weight limits based on rank. Plus, it gives me an opportunity to refine my shop and equipment every move. It’s fun.

We could go over our weight limit and the charge would actually be less than hiring a separate freight hauler for the materials.

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1439 days


#28 posted 08-18-2016 07:26 PM


All I can say is, do you want to spend an inordinate amount of time and gas $$$ trying to find a braggin rights “deal”, or do you want to get back out into the shop and actually get busy WW-ing? How often are you planning on moving that would/could possibly negate buying new equipment? Moving too frequently is not good for a WW hobby.

FWIW, after I finally realized that WW-ing was MY desire, I bit the bullet and bought a new TS, BS, Planer in order to start my WW shop and did manage to pay ~70% of new in a used 8” spiral head jointer (got lucky here but was ready to buy new). I eventually also added a new 20” DP, after putting up with an 8” DP for over 20yr. That was well worth the splurge BTW…

8-)

- HorizontalMike

So on one hand your saying why spend time and money looking for a “bragging rights” deal, then on the other hand you say look at the “bragging rights” deal I got on a jointer…LOL 8-)

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7503 posts in 2739 days


#29 posted 08-18-2016 07:36 PM

All I can say is, do you want to spend an inordinate amount of time and gas $$$ trying to find a braggin rights “deal”, or do you want to get back out into the shop and actually get busy WW-ing?
- HorizontalMike

The above is based on a false premise… there is no requirement to spend an ‘inordinate’ amount of time and money to find fantastic deals, and certainly doesn’t preclude working in the shop throwing chips. But I do appreciate those who throw that idea around and instill the negative thought into potential purchasers… it reduces the competition for those of us who know better :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2650 days


#30 posted 08-18-2016 08:01 PM

The above is based on a false premise… there is no requirement to spend an ‘inordinate’ amount of time and money to find fantastic deals, and certainly doesn’t preclude working in the shop throwing chips.

Mike’s premise has certainly been true for me for 25 years… I see the three most important factors as location, location, and location. What backs it up for me is how easily I’ve sold my extra stuff. In 2010, I sold my y2k General 650 for $1850… in an hour! ;^)

My experiences are similar to many who I’ve met in person at classes and seminars. We’ve all found the occasional great find, but if we did the entire shop that way, we’d still be looking.

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MrUnix

7503 posts in 2739 days


#31 posted 08-18-2016 08:30 PM

Mike’s premise has certainly been true for me for 25 years…

Didn’t say it isn’t true, you certainly can spend a lot of time, effort and cash if you choose to… just that it’s not a requirement :)

One key is to look for stuff you don’t ‘need right now’. That gives you the opportunity to keep an eye out for what you want, but the ability to easily pass on machines until the right deal presents itself. There was a recent discussion over at OWWM regarding an upcoming article in Popular Woodworking related to finding and restoring old machines. Many felt that this might push prices upwards – a feeling that I don’t particularly agree with. One member articulated the situation about as well as I’ve ever seen:

What I am doing instead of trading off condition for price is trading off immediacy for value. What I mean by that is I put off the purchase of things, passing on 99% of the opportunities that come along, until a 1% opportunity that catches my eye presents itself.

That is certainly how I have been able to gather a shop full of relatively high-end machines over the years and for very little cash outlay. And as an added bonus, all of those machines are far more robust and better built than just about anything on the market today currently shipping from overseas. Of course, YMMV.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: CL hasn’t been around for 25 years, but the above also applies to other avenues of purchase – e-bay, garage/estate sales, auctions, etc…

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2404 days


#32 posted 08-18-2016 10:25 PM



All I can say is, do you want to spend an inordinate amount of time and gas $$$ trying to find a braggin rights “deal”, or do you want to get back out into the shop and actually get busy WW-ing?
- HorizontalMike

The above is based on a false premise… there is no requirement to spend an inordinate amount of time and money to find fantastic deals, and certainly doesn t preclude working in the shop throwing chips. But I do appreciate those who throw that idea around and instill the negative thought into potential purchasers… it reduces the competition for those of us who know better :)

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

HAHAHA!


Mike’s premise has certainly been true for me for 25 years…

Didn t say it isn t true, you certainly can spend a lot of time, effort and cash if you choose to… just that it s not a requirement :)

One key is to look for stuff you don t need right now . That gives you the opportunity to keep an eye out for what you want, but the ability to easily pass on machines until the right deal presents itself. There was a recent discussion over at OWWM regarding an upcoming article in Popular Woodworking related to finding and restoring old machines. Many felt that this might push prices upwards – a feeling that I don t particularly agree with. One member articulated the situation about as well as I ve ever seen:

What I am doing instead of trading off condition for price is trading off immediacy for value. What I mean by that is I put off the purchase of things, passing on 99% of the opportunities that come along, until a 1% opportunity that catches my eye presents itself.

That is certainly how I have been able to gather a shop full of relatively high-end machines over the years and for very little cash outlay. And as an added bonus, all of those machines are far more robust and better built than just about anything on the market today currently shipping from overseas. Of course, YMMV.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: CL hasn t been around for 25 years, but the above also applies to other avenues of purchase – e-bay, garage/estate sales, auctions, etc…

- MrUnix

Not to mention, it’s freakin fun to look. I literally stay home with a toddler all day, so spending time trolling CL or other sites isn’t a big deal. I’ve found amazing tools at amazing prices and I typically hang on to my favorites.

I freakin hated my 14” Rikon and was glad to let it go when we moved. I’m just perpetually amazed at people who think their old POS is worth a grand or more. It’s just an observation.

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

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HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3454 days


#33 posted 08-18-2016 10:32 PM

Wow…

No wonder I have spent so much time NOT being on LJs or other WW sites in recent times, and instead in the WW-shop and doing other pursuits. Have fun arguing the finer points of what constitutes “a bargain”...

I always hate it when one’s tears/bias warps the wood and all… For me, even though it took a while, it was worth the effort to learn what WW is actually about. Enjoy your strife and all…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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000

2859 posts in 1439 days


#34 posted 08-18-2016 11:26 PM



Wow…

No wonder I have spent so much time NOT being on LJs or other WW sites in recent times,
- HorizontalMike

It has been appreciated! ;)

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2404 days


#35 posted 08-18-2016 11:31 PM



Wow…

No wonder I have spent so much time NOT being on LJs or other WW sites in recent times, and instead in the WW-shop and doing other pursuits. Have fun arguing the finer points of what constitutes “a bargain”...

I always hate it when one s tears/bias warps the wood and all… For me, even though it took a while, it was worth the effort to learn what WW is actually about. Enjoy your strife and all…

- HorizontalMike

This leads me to another topic I’ve been meandering around…why do WW’ers have a tendency to get their panties all knotted up and why do the worst of them work at WoodCraft. LOL

It’s just conversation dude. I don’t know about you, but I’m not drowning in other wood workers to dialogue with in my household, so it’s completely worth it to shoot the stuff and ramble about inane crap. Still leaves me plenty of time in the shop. I guess I just don’t type as slowly as some folks.

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

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HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3454 days


#36 posted 08-18-2016 11:53 PM

”...Anyway, I suppose t*his is just a long useless rant …
- UncannyValleyWoods

Well, at least you are honest. Point taken…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2404 days


#37 posted 08-19-2016 12:57 AM



”...Anyway, I suppose t*his is just a long useless rant …
- UncannyValleyWoods

Well, at least you are honest. Point taken…

- HorizontalMike

Yup. I’m always honest and I’m always in jest.

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

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Kelly

2468 posts in 3484 days


#38 posted 08-19-2016 01:07 AM

Consider table saws, as an example. I paid about fifteen for mine about twelve years ago. It’s replacement goes for around four thousand. People want a couple hundred to five or more for saws that are paled by mine. As such, and especially considering the add-ons, I would expect to get near, at or over my purchase price.

Meanwhile, and nuts type craiglisters aside, we can go back to the supply and demand thing.

View macgee's profile

macgee

49 posts in 2177 days


#39 posted 06-23-2017 09:15 PM


Dont forget about all the tool flippers, yes there is such a thing. I missed out on several deals, one a columbian vise $40 & the other 3 months later a 20” walker turner bandsaw $100, each was a new posting… same guy bought & reposted them for sale, he actually wanted $1800 for the bandsaw that I almost got but he best me there. Here is one of his many listings in the Los Angeles CL, he is in bell gardens fiy . https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/tls/5729174679.html
this dude must have 100 postings from jointers , sanders, saws, lathes, you name it. He is a true craigslist hustler. Half the time you can spot his white trailer in the back ground. Hes been at it for over 5 years that I know if. It may just be a hobby for him to fix up old power tools to resell, more power to him. It must cost a lot of money & time to flip tools & to store them. I have seen other deals pop up on CL & the next day he repost the item for more than triple FIRM, haha.. Posted on craigslist for months & years.

The good deals are out there especially if you are supplying your shop with stuff you may not be looking for at the time, I often will buy something not because I need it at that moment but rather because its such a good deal, timing is everything.

- MikesProjects

Just came across this thread while trying to help a friend buy a good bandsaw. Mike is right, This guy from Bell Gardens is flipping on Craigslist with total disregard and should be avoided, He’s does not care about you or the items he’s selling, a true flipper and artificially inflating the prices of bandsaws in the Los Angeles area. He currently has 128 listings in the tool section, a lot of them are old Bandsaws with really high prices. He was asking $700 for a used 14” Delta bandsaw with a riser, something my friend was looking for. After talking to him, he was rude, he would not say if it had any problems other than saying it’s an old machine and things happen, price was absolutely firm and said he’s happy to hold on to it for years than rather lower the price and I think that is exactly why he still has so many for sale. Looking carefully, You could see the bandsaw was missing parts (guides).

Someone who’s trying to sell his own bandsaw looks on craigslist to see what bandsaws are selling for and get excited, they then are asking high prices but eventually they go back to realistic $150-$250. The Bell Garden dude is selling about 80% of all the bandsaws listed on craigslist at any given time. You’ll see a white trailer and chain link fence in the background.

I saw in the past a nice Max osc. drum sander selling for $100 1st thing in the morning, (smoking price) by early afternoon the same sander was selling for $900 sitting on trailer with the same dirt and grime on it by the Bell garden dude, probably never even plugged it in.

He doesn’t check them or fix them but happy to take your money. He did say buyers need to be aware as it’s an old machine and may break. I understand asking a high price if the machine is good condition, has been sorted & tuned everything works and comes with extras but asking the same high price for a unchecked dirty machine, out of tune, missing parts is a bad thing.

Sorry for the rant but it’s sad to see all these ads daily, knowing a seller is trying to hustle people in the LA area who are excited to start making projects in their shop. So be careful buying on craigslist, take the rose colored glasses off, ask questions, carefully check the machine yourself, checking bearings & parts and compare prices in surrounding areas.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2468 posts in 3484 days


#40 posted 06-23-2017 11:44 PM

It, certainly, goes both ways (price too high, price too low). For example, I have one of those “bells and whistles” band saws. It has the both stock guides for re-sawing and a Kreg Stabilizer. It has a riser block and the parts to restore it to a six inch height cut. It has a mobile base, tension release, improved tension knob, light tire brushes, neoprene tires and a blower. It has a quick connect bed extension, nice log, circle, and several other jigs. At any given time, I have around twenty blades. I wouldn’t consider letting it all go for less than eight. If I were shopping and knew the saw and the things mentioned as well as I do, I’d be tickled to get it all for that price. I believe whoever bought it for that price would be getting a fair deal. Still, some would complain because I didn’t give it to them.

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Loren

10477 posts in 4188 days


#41 posted 06-23-2017 11:55 PM

I figure the Bell Gardens guy will eventually
run out of storage space.

I’m in Los Angeles and have bought and sold
plenty of machines and noted the inflated
pricing on old mid-sized machines taking
over Craigslist in my area too.

Just keep a stack of bills in a drawer somewhere
and be ready to be on the spot with a truck
and cash when the right deal comes up.

It will, if you’re patient.

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RickEmery

6 posts in 936 days


#42 posted 06-24-2017 12:14 AM

I live in the DC metro area and CL has been mostly miss for me. If you are will to travel to No. VA here is a decent Delta: https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/for/6164273837.html

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madts

1909 posts in 2880 days


#43 posted 06-24-2017 12:19 AM

I have a 14” Rockwell band saw from 1980. I know that because I bought it new, and would not sell it for any money. I know it and it knows me. We treat each other with respect. To go out and buy a new finicky tool, I do not think so. My bandsaw is not for sale an any price. It will go to one of my kids. So try to offer me $2000.00.

—Madts.

-- Thor and Odin are still the greatest of Gods.

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BlasterStumps

1454 posts in 979 days


#44 posted 06-24-2017 12:49 AM

I was in the local Habitat Restore one day and there in the back of the shop was a Delta 14” that had been mishandled and the trunions were both busted. I just had to order new trunions and remount the table. Anyway, you might try a Restore or thrift store. You never know what will show up at those places. Usually prices are fair.

-- "I build for function first, looks second. Most times I never get around to looks." - Mike, western Colorado

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macgee

49 posts in 2177 days


#45 posted 06-24-2017 12:51 AM


It, certainly, goes both ways (price too high, price too low). For example, I have one of those “bells and whistles” band saws. It has the both stock guides for re-sawing and a Kreg Stabilizer. It has a riser block and the parts to restore it to a six inch height cut. It has a mobile base, tension release, improved tension knob, light tire brushes, neoprene tires and a blower. It has a quick connect bed extension, nice log, circle, and several other jigs. At any given time, I have around twenty blades. I wouldn t consider letting it all go for less than eight. If I were shopping and knew the saw and the things mentioned as well as I do, I d be tickled to get it all for that price. I believe whoever bought it for that price would be getting a fair deal. Still, some would complain because I didn t give it to them.

- Kelly

I certainly can’t complain or argue about what you wrote. I totally agree and value someone who has done the same as you have to a machine. Someone who who goes through all the trouble and love into a bandsaw like you have done puts a great value on the machine. All that time and care you put into the machine means it was being well cared for, issues ironed out, money was spent on extras making the saw better than when new and makes the saw to good to go in the coming years. On top of all that, when someone does that a to machine doesn’t dare to abuse it, that alone adds value.

Now, remove all the pluses you just mentioned and have to deal with someone having the balls to sell it at same price and not being able to turn it on. To me that makes appear as if its lined with gold which it’s not.

View macgee's profile

macgee

49 posts in 2177 days


#46 posted 06-24-2017 01:10 AM



I was in the local Habitat Restore one day and there in the back of the shop was a Delta 14” that had been mishandled and the trunions were both busted. I just had to order new trunions and remount the table. Anyway, you might try a Restore or thrift store. You never know what will show up at those places. Usually prices are fair.

- BlasterStumps

Your are exactly correct and I have personally found incredible deals with machines just needing a small $0.50- $40 part. They are still really good deals out there, but they go within hours here in LA, sadly a lot of the times it’s to full time flipper who resells it with a 300% price increase.

Whats eating me is that my area is being greatly effected by high prices from a single flipper selling at inflated prices who doesn’t even bother to check the machine if it’s working, bordering junk and happy to sell it to a unsuspecting buyers without warranty and gets rude when you ask to turn it on or why it’s so expensive when the machine is not complete or needs lots of work. He’s flooding the market, currently has over 120 ad’s on craigslist with older machines needing parts that are hard to find or very expensive.

I have found as a whole that the people who are buying shop tools are really good people, and should be treat as such, no need to take advantage of them. I have really enjoyed it when I’ve had to buy or sell machines. Nothing better when hearing back later on from someone who had bought something from you and is totally stoked and loving the machine.

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woodbutcherbynight

5974 posts in 2949 days


#47 posted 06-24-2017 05:14 PM

I looked but could not find the gold in my JET bandsaw. Very disappointed!!!!!

That being said it is crazy that in one city you have 1000 Drill presses dirt cheap and in the next state they are like buying a 5kt diamond ring. Most of the true deals I have found were by someone that was in dire need to unload them for whatever reason. Or by someone that had the $$ to blow, use once and hey it is now in the way lets sell it category. Even so I check CL daily and rarely find anything I need to jump on. But if you don’t look you will never find. Prob good advice for winning the lottery as well just can’t get past burning money to buy a ticket.

ROFL

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

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AlaskaGuy

5414 posts in 2849 days


#48 posted 06-24-2017 05:53 PM

Location is an important factor in used tool prices. I have never seen a 14’’ band saw priced at 200 dollars that looked very serviceable without a lot of work. I think the OP is a little on the frugal side.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2468 posts in 3484 days


#49 posted 06-24-2017 06:38 PM

The only band saws I see for $200.00 or less are the Craftsman ones. They, usually, go for $150.00 around here, but some go cheaper.

Unless it were broke, the Delta’s I’ve seen go for around $400.00.

View macgee's profile

macgee

49 posts in 2177 days


#50 posted 06-24-2017 09:28 PM

Actually Los Angeles/SoCal area is proabably one of the cheapest and best place in the US to find a good vintage machine for pennies on the dollar. I have purchased a Rikon 14” deluxe for $100/no fence (not vintage) and a Delta Unisaw for $150 with old fence, Powermatic 20” variable speed drill press press for $100, Bridgeport mill for $600. Yes all needed some love but they’re currently are turn key. I regularly see items come up for sale and astounded how cheap they are selling for. The price per square foot is truly lined with gold here compared to tools. It’s even more extreme in the SF area but there was also much less industrial machining going on so less inventory of the old beauties.

A good Delta 14” bandsaw will admittedly sell for more than other machines.

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