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View shipwright's profile

BDFT, BF, or FBM? Which do you use? Is it regional?

by shipwright
posted 08-06-2016 03:14 PM


43 replies so far

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

10743 posts in 4566 days


#1 posted 08-06-2016 03:21 PM

bf = board foot / feet IMHO

vise = mechanical clamp
vice = crime

IMHO

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php

View kiefer's profile

kiefer

5682 posts in 3180 days


#2 posted 08-06-2016 03:25 PM

bf or BF around here but the question I have how is it measured in your area ?
Here the measurement on S2S is rounded up to the next size like a 5 1/4” becomes a 6” wide board and some lumber yards will add shrinkage on top of that .

Klaus

-- Kiefer https://www.youtube.com/user/woodkiefer1/videos

View nightguy's profile

nightguy

213 posts in 1176 days


#3 posted 08-06-2016 03:29 PM

My supplier uses Bd Ft.

View grizzman's profile

grizzman

7836 posts in 3817 days


#4 posted 08-06-2016 03:29 PM

hello paul, i hope your doing well today, my experience has been like joes, hello to you joe, how are you doing these days, i have not occasion to buy to much, but what ive gotten was bf….now if you go onto facebook it could mean butt face….lol…but that gets us nowhere….....

-- GRIZZMAN ...[''''']

View Planeman40's profile

Planeman40

1452 posts in 3274 days


#5 posted 08-06-2016 03:30 PM

You just brought up a gripe of mine on this now international website which is the use of acronyms here. Different areas use different terms for things and when it is stated as an an acronym its anybody’s guess what it is. I don’t have the patience to figure it out and usually dismiss a thread I don’t immediately understand. I have been woodworking and machining metal for 60 plus years now and have the knowledge so I’m no tyro at this. PLEASE SPELL IT OUT!!!

Anybody else feel this way?

Planeman

-- Always remember: It is a mathematical certainty that half the people in this country are below average in intelligence!

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

1017 posts in 3596 days


#6 posted 08-06-2016 03:43 PM

Hey Paul.
The most common term I hear from the wholesalers here(Calgary) is board feet. Depends on the salesman…next most used term is board measure.
When I type, I usually type bd ft. When I order on the phone….they all know me well enough, when I order 1000 feet…I’m ordering board feet.

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8381 posts in 3311 days


#7 posted 08-06-2016 03:43 PM



bf = board foot / feet IMHO

vise = mechanical clamp
vice = crime

IMHO

- Joe Lyddon

Joe, in the USA the clamping thingie on your bench is a vise. In Canada (and the rest of the English speaking world I believe) it is vice, just like the crime.

Klaus, I always buy at the supplier’s yard and I’ve always been charged by the exact measure at the time of purchase. More often than not they will round in my favour but that may be because I was a commercial account for many years and have a very good relationship there.

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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shipwright

8381 posts in 3311 days


#8 posted 08-06-2016 03:45 PM

Tony, I say “board feet” but my paperwork has always said fbm (foot, board measure)

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

3131 posts in 2686 days


#9 posted 08-06-2016 03:52 PM

bf or bd ft

board feet is usually figured on the rough unfinished dimension. A planed 1×6 is figured as a 1×6 even though it is actually 3/4×5.5.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View MadMark's profile

MadMark

979 posts in 1966 days


#10 posted 08-06-2016 03:55 PM

Look in the USDA’s 'Wood handbook: Wood as an engineering material' for definition of terms. Everyone should have a copy. It’s free ‘cause it was produced at taxpayer expense.

M

-- Madmark - [email protected] Wiretreefarm.com

View Woodwrecker's profile

Woodwrecker

4232 posts in 4089 days


#11 posted 08-06-2016 04:09 PM

I’m with Joe Lydon.
And the Lumberyard man & I are pals too, so they always round up in my favor as well.
Good luck brother.

And, this was a good topic to bring up.
Thanks you

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8381 posts in 3311 days


#12 posted 08-06-2016 04:13 PM



Look in the USDA s Wood handbook: Wood as an engineering material for definition of terms. Everyone should have a copy. It s free cause it was produced at taxpayer expense.

M

- MadMark


I am aware of what a board foot is Mark. Did you read the question?

Wiki lists all three but seems to lean ever so slightly to FBM. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_foot

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1413 days


#13 posted 08-06-2016 04:35 PM

I’ve never seen it referred to as FBM
I always cal it out as bd ft.

View joey502's profile

joey502

557 posts in 2031 days


#14 posted 08-06-2016 05:32 PM


Look in the USDA s Wood handbook: Wood as an engineering material for definition of terms. Everyone should have a copy. It s free cause it was produced at taxpayer expense.

M

- MadMark

The USDA is a dept of the federal government in the United States. The original post was asking about other counties, coast etc.

a vice is a cigarette or gambling habbit. A vise is something i smash my fingers in.

The sellers in my area use the board foot unit.

View Dez's profile

Dez

1167 posts in 4591 days


#15 posted 08-06-2016 05:49 PM

bf!

-- Folly ever comes cloaked in opportunity!

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2359 posts in 3152 days


#16 posted 08-06-2016 07:10 PM

bf around here. Sometimes they write board feet. Sometimes just feet. Occasionally, a craigs list seller will seem confused about what a board foot is – and think it is the same as linear foot.

I haven’t bought lumber very many times – but when I bought, I usually bought in bulk. If you are there and have the boards in sight, you see what you are getting and you know what you are paying. If it seems like a good deal to you, it is.

Hey, do metric folk have another measure?

I’ve read that Japanese still sell lumber based on the old Shaku unit (Japanese foot), which is a bit less than an imperial foot and is now exactly defined as 10/33 meter. So plywood is sold in 3×6 Shaku instead of some metric measurement, but the thickness is in mm. Does anybody know more about how the Japanese sell rough lumber?

But… that is a digression from your original question Paul.

-Paul

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5543 posts in 2865 days


#17 posted 08-06-2016 08:04 PM

As a forester, we always used bf for board foot, mbf for 1000 bf and mmbf for million bf.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View DonSol's profile

DonSol

249 posts in 1755 days


#18 posted 08-06-2016 11:43 PM

BF here in Indiana.

-- Don Solomon, New Castle, IN; Quality is not an act, it is a habit. Aristotle

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boxcarmarty

17186 posts in 2874 days


#19 posted 08-07-2016 12:41 AM

How about that Don, the hills and hollers of southern Indiana spells it the same way…..

-- My mind is like lighting, one brilliant flash, then its gone.....

View jwmalone's profile

jwmalone

769 posts in 1216 days


#20 posted 08-07-2016 01:04 AM

I agree with Mr. Lyydon and Planeman40. I do understand we are all from different areas, hell here in south east U.S.A you can go 50 mile and not understand a damn thing, different name for everything. But those acronyms are a bitch when your dealing with people from other country’s, especially the metric system, based on tens what the hell were those guys thinking lol. Around here its bf= board feet, as long as the guy has some gray hair deal with a youngin and you’re screwed.

-- "Boy you could get more work done it you quit flapping your pie hole" Grandpa

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JayT

6296 posts in 2725 days


#21 posted 08-07-2016 01:34 AM



As a forester, we always used bf for board foot, mbf for 1000 bf and mmbf for million bf.

- bondogaposis

This is what most of our suppliers use on their billing statements. I’ll use bf if I know the person will know what I’m talking about and bd ft if I think there may be a question. Like some others, I’ve never seen the fbm abbreviation.

-- https://www.jtplaneworks.com - In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

View Texcaster's profile

Texcaster

1286 posts in 2187 days


#22 posted 08-07-2016 01:44 AM

LA in the ‘70s it was bf. Australia used to sell super feet, defects graded out. Now it’s sold by the cubic metre or m3

-- Mama calls me Texcaster but my real name is Mr. Earl.

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firefighterontheside

20582 posts in 2370 days


#23 posted 08-07-2016 01:47 AM

I use bf. I’ve never seen fbm.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View Bob Collins's profile

Bob Collins

2709 posts in 4197 days


#24 posted 08-07-2016 02:58 AM

Flooring boards and decking are sold down here in Aust. in Linear Meters. Fire wood in Cubic Meters.

-- Bob C, Australia. Your best teacher is your last mistake.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8381 posts in 3311 days


#25 posted 08-07-2016 04:02 AM

I guess it’s safe to say FBM isn’t used in the USA.

That would be at least part of an answer to my question.

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

18673 posts in 4189 days


#26 posted 08-07-2016 04:58 AM

I have seen bdft and bf. AS far as vice vs vise goes. Sometimes vice may be more fun than vise assuming you get away with it ;-)

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Schwieb's profile

Schwieb

1894 posts in 3975 days


#27 posted 08-07-2016 06:08 PM

I learned it in Ohio and remained the same in Florida as bdft or bf. I remember going with my Dad when I was a kid to Michigan to buy lumber for his business. The guy tallying the order used a stick with a metal tee on the end that he hooked on the edge of the board to measure the width and thickness. As I recall it was called in fractions to the closest 1/8” they would run the tally sheet to the office and calculate the bd ft and the bill.

-- Dr. Ken, Florida - Durch harte arbeit werden Träume wahr.

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shipwright

8381 posts in 3311 days


#28 posted 08-07-2016 08:40 PM

Just so you know I’m not making it up…....

These are however both Canadian companies so maybe it is one of those Vice/Vise things.
...... two nations divided by a common language…

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

10743 posts in 4566 days


#29 posted 08-08-2016 12:23 AM

Paul,

I have to disagree with their Formula:

Height x Width +12 x length = FBM

is NOT correct.


The Correct Formula is: (all in Inches)

(Height x Width x Length) / 144 = BF

Assuming that FBM is the same as our BF or BdFt…

Example:

1×12 x 96 = 1152 / 144 = 8 bf
1” x 12” x 8 ft.

2×12 x 96 = 2304 / 144 = 16 bf

2” x 12” x 8 ft



Using their formula, it is impossible to get the correct answer… Yes?

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php

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shipwright

8381 posts in 3311 days


#30 posted 08-08-2016 12:50 AM

Joe, sorry, the screenshot is a little blurry.
If you look closely I think you will find that the formula you are looking at is
Lineal feet X widthX thickness (divided by) 12 = fbm
I dint have the “divided by” sign on my iPad , sorry again.
It isn’t a “plus” sign it is a “divided by” sign

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

10743 posts in 4566 days


#31 posted 08-08-2016 05:59 AM

Paul,

I was looking at the third line from the top… Looks like ”+” sign to me… I even magnified it to be sure…

... I’m used to seeing the ”/” for Divide… Sure looked like a ”+” to me…
... It STILL looks like a ”+” sign to me…
... I can see where 2 pixels, one above & one below, could make the difference.
... I could not get it any closer to see more pixels…

Thank you.

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

18673 posts in 4189 days


#32 posted 08-08-2016 06:22 AM

Joe, it is a divide sign. Definitely poor way to state it, but there are examples below it. First 2 measurements in inches, then divide by 12 to get a value to multiply by the length in feet.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

5983 posts in 2234 days


#33 posted 08-08-2016 11:07 AM

I am familiar with board foot being referred to as bdft. or bf. with the former being more common. I did see an ad running in Allen, MI on craigslist for slabs priced by “Sq. Bd. Ft.” which is an immediate red flag for me as I’ve never heard of anything being priced in such a way.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View Woodbum's profile

Woodbum

892 posts in 3579 days


#34 posted 08-08-2016 12:57 PM

When I sell materials I call it out as “board feet” or say: “the price is by the board foot”. When I write it down, it is usually written as bf in either upper or lower case.

-- "Now I'm just another old guy wearing funny clothes"

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8381 posts in 3311 days


#35 posted 08-08-2016 01:51 PM

Here you go Joe. I blew it up for you.

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

10743 posts in 4566 days


#36 posted 08-10-2016 06:42 AM

Thanks, Paul… That is very clear… :)

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php

View Jim Jakosh's profile

Jim Jakosh

23401 posts in 3619 days


#37 posted 08-11-2016 04:26 PM

I have always used bf for board feet, but that is strictly for price. When I buy lumber I describe/rder it by the dimensions I need and let the seller calculate the bf for price.

Jim

-- Jim Jakosh.....Practical Wood Products...........Learn something new every day!! Variety is the Spice of Life!!

View Sylvain's profile

Sylvain

881 posts in 3013 days


#38 posted 08-13-2016 02:14 PM

In Europe Union, metric system is mandatory (with a few exceptions like aircraft altitude in feet and aircraft travelling distance in nautical miles while other distances used in aviation are in m).

Labelling must state the real dimensions. A board labelled 19mm thick is 19mm thick.
price can be in m³ or, if the section is given, per m or, if the three dimensions are given, the price is per piece.

For anyone with a little bit of math/science varnish (I mean end of primary school where I learned the metric system in 1962), feet is a length unit and expressing a volume in [...] feet is simply shocking.

If at least US people were using cubic inches, cubic feet, cubic yards …

Using mbf to mean 1000bf is also totally confusing for the rest of the world as the prefix “m” means 1/1000th. The standard prefix for 1000 is “k”.

I sometime wander if this is all organised to confuse the US customer; so when he tries to buy something he will get “what he has asked for” but not what he wanted to have.

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

View jdh122's profile

jdh122

1097 posts in 3331 days


#39 posted 08-13-2016 05:55 PM

prelm just posted a queston about a piece of ash he bought: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/175074

The board is marked in chalk: ash 6 fbm.

-- Jeremy, in the Acadian forests

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8381 posts in 3311 days


#40 posted 08-13-2016 06:16 PM

Thanks Jeremy, I was starting to think I’d made it up. :-)

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View sawdust703's profile

sawdust703

270 posts in 1934 days


#41 posted 08-14-2016 03:19 AM

Even here in Kansas where the rest of the world thinks we’re dumb dirt farmers & woodworkers are few & far between, & trees are just for looks, we buy wood by lumber by the bdft. The junk pine at the lumber store, too.

-- Sawdust703

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

1017 posts in 3596 days


#42 posted 08-14-2016 11:55 AM


feet is a length unit and expressing a volume in [...] feet is simply shocking.

If at least US people were using cubic inches, cubic feet, cubic yards …
- Sylvain

Board measure is a cubic measure Sylvain. 1 board foot= 144 cubic inches.
If I buy one board foot of 4/4(1” thick) rough lumber, I’ll get 144 cubic inches of wood(regardless of length and width).
If I buy 1 board foot of 8/4(2” thick) rough lumber, I’ll get 144 cubic inches of wood(regardless of length and width).

Simply shocking?
How about the fact that Canada has been officially metric since the mid 70’s. All building codes are in metric, both residential and commercial. All trades schooling(apprenticeships) is taught in metric…but almost all residential construction still uses imperial measurement, while almost all commercial construction uses metric.
Stupid…but thats the way it is here.

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View Sylvain's profile

Sylvain

881 posts in 3013 days


#43 posted 08-14-2016 08:07 PM

To clarify my meaning
1) Nothing shocking about using inches ,feet or whatever.
2) I have long ago understood what a board-foot is.
3) What I wouldn’t like, is have to use what at first glance looks like a length to express a volume. This is counterintuitive.

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

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