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Can't Get My Grizzley 8in Jointer to start

by nathan1342
posted 07-24-2016 01:46 PM


46 replies so far

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7498 posts in 2732 days


#1 posted 07-24-2016 01:55 PM

The cap will (should) start at a very low resistance value and move towards infinity. You have to disconnect it first (and short the terminals before putting your meter on it). A quick-n-dirty test to see if it’s your start circuit is to spin the motor by hand and hit the start switch while it’s still rotating.

This may help: How to Test a Capacitor?

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2019 days


#2 posted 07-24-2016 02:05 PM

Do you hear the starter engagaging whenever you hit the start button?

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View nathan1342's profile

nathan1342

11 posts in 1206 days


#3 posted 07-24-2016 02:12 PM

I did disconnect it, short it and then tested it. I saw it go towards infinity slowly when connected to my ohm meter. I did try to spin the motor and hit the start button but I can’t spin it fast enough. But I did get a brand new replacement cap from grizzley and still the same. But I’m wondering how does the capcitor charge so when you hit the start button it discharges? If i test it while it’s hooked up it the cap doesn’t seem to charge but shouldn’t it?

I don’t hear anything when I hit the start button. Everything is quite as the grave.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2019 days


#4 posted 07-24-2016 02:18 PM

try resetting the overloads.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7498 posts in 2732 days


#5 posted 07-24-2016 02:18 PM

Then it’s not the cap. And you don’t need to spin the motor by hand fast, just get it moving.

The capacitor is in circuit when the motor is stopped. It is switched out of circuit via the centrifugal switch disengaging once enough speed is obtained. Sounds like a power problem… did you check voltage at the motor? Fridge has a good idea as well. Did you check voltages at the starter (does it have one?).

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View bbrewer71's profile

bbrewer71

13 posts in 1206 days


#6 posted 07-24-2016 02:58 PM


I have a 8 year old Model: G0656XW jointer with spiral cutter. The other day i went to turn it on and nothing happened. I checked the power to the unit, the switch and both were functioning normally. I then proceeded to check the motor. I pulled out the start capacitor and tested it and it tested fine. I even ordered a new one just in case and didn t fix it. I pull apart the motor and checked the centripetal switch and it also tested good or at least i think it did. What s strange though is when i put the start capacitor back on and test it, it doesn t charge, its almost like the circuit is already closed so the capacitor can t charge enough to do anything. What am i wonder is if the start capacitor is connected normally and i run my ohm meter through it should the capacitor charge enough to give me a read out on my ohm meter? Let me know if I should be checking anything else.

- nathan1342

Nathan, can you please post a picture of the original cap and the new one? According to the OEM magic juice map, this should have either a dual cap (run/start capacitor) or two separate but equally important capacitors.

#1 How long has your boat anchor been in service?

#2 How long has it been since it was still a jointer and not a boat anchor?

#3 Has anything in your arboreal conclave changed since you last performed a squaring ritual?

#4 Has your wife or female partner (or male partner for that matter, who are we to judge) had access to your lair. If yours is like mine and thinks you love your tools more than her, mine is correct by the way. Then she may have “say boat tajed” it in a fit of jealous rage.

On a serious note though, if you could post a pic and let me know about the number of capacitors I maybe be able to help. I gots me lots of experience troubleshooting machines via text and phone calls.

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

5993 posts in 3346 days


#7 posted 07-24-2016 10:29 PM

Mag switch bad?

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View JayDee70's profile

JayDee70

19 posts in 1851 days


#8 posted 07-24-2016 11:43 PM

WARNING – Be extremely careful around AC power.
I know nothing about this joiner except what I can find on line. According to the operators manual it is a 220v sngl phase machine and it does not appear to use a starter, only a simple On/Off paddle switch. It has been my experience in my shop as well as others in other forums I post in that most of the time a dead motor is the result of dust infiltration into the On/Off switch. I have repaired at least 6 machines, mine and others, by simply opening up the switch and blowing out the dust. My first check would be to verify that single phase 220 is coming out of the switch when the switch is on.

To check that power is coming to the motor from the switch, MAKE SURE the machine is OFF, open up the wiring access panel on the motor, connect a volt meter to the two(2) power wires coming from the switch, probably red and black. There may also be a third wire, usually green, not needed for this check. When the meter is hooked up turn the switch on for a few seconds and see if your meter reads around 220 volts. If you do read between one of the power wires and the green(ground) wire you will most likely read 110 volts, both power leads should read 110 volts to ground but checking it is not needed. The 220 is all you need to check for. If there is no 220v then turn the switch off. Unplug the machine, open up the switch box, connect your meter to the power leads coming from your power cord coming into the box. The power cord may have red, black, and green or black, white, and green wires, which ever it has hook your meter between the two that are not green then plug the cord in. If you see 220 volts you need to repair/replace the switch, if not then the cord or other down stream wiring is bad, maybe a bad/tripped breaker.
Let us know what you find.

-- JD, KY, www.jnjwoodsmithing.com On FaceBook at https://www.facebook.com/jnjwoodsmith

View JayDee70's profile

JayDee70

19 posts in 1851 days


#9 posted 07-24-2016 11:53 PM

WARNING – Be extremely careful around AC power.
BTW the starting capacitor is used as a phase shiftier and does not actually charge in the usual sense that you may be thinking. In an AC circuit it is constantly changing its charge from positive to negative back to positive at a 60 cycle rate. The chances of you seeing it “charged” with a meter are very slim. The info given above on checking the cap with an Ohm meter is all you really need to do to check one. To check and verify a “charge” you would have to disconnect it from the circuit the instant the AC voltage reached a peak either positive or negative, in any-case the presence of a charge on it after disconnecting it from the circuit would mean very little to the trouble shooting scenario. In the case of checking the cap for a “charge” with the power turned off, if the power went off on a peak it will have most likely discharged itself within just a second or less through the start coil the instant the starter/centrifugal switch re-engages as the motor slows to a stop. Typically if the cap is bad the motor does not start AND a noticeable humm can be heard. If you are not hearing any sound from the motor and it will not start by hand then most likely it is not the cap but missing 220 power.

-- JD, KY, www.jnjwoodsmithing.com On FaceBook at https://www.facebook.com/jnjwoodsmith

View DirtyMike's profile

DirtyMike

637 posts in 1435 days


#10 posted 07-25-2016 01:29 AM

hey nathan, search you tube for grizzly table saw switch. It was a guy in a basement that had something similar happening with his saw.

View nathan1342's profile

nathan1342

11 posts in 1206 days


#11 posted 07-25-2016 02:24 AM

Thanks for all the responses. I purchased this jointer practically unused from an older gentleman who was transitioning out of woodworking. Got it home and it was working great, maybe put only 10 hours on it max. I moved across town and trucked it with me. It sat for about 6 months since I had my second child and didn’t have time for woodworking. Finally got things on a schedule and decided to start on some projects. Went to flatten some 12/4 black walnut, hit the on button and nothing. It worked across town, brought it to my new house and nothing. I initally thought I wired the 220 outlet wrong but as you can see in the video below, the voltage tests fine all the way to the motor.

It has two caps, run capacitor and a start capacitor. I haven’t tested the run cap since the wire nut are the compression type so its more difficult to remove. But I would think, and maybe this is wrong, but it would at least attempt to start before the run cap kicks in.

Really the setup is super simple, there ins’t a lot that can go wrong. But please take a look at the video below and let me know if I’m missing something or should be testing something else. I”ve also taken off each wire nut and made sure the connection was secure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdCTrks_TFA

View nashranch's profile

nashranch

46 posts in 2591 days


#12 posted 07-25-2016 02:47 AM

In the video i see 120v to ground on both sides but do you get 220 v between the two hot leads? You might have a bad breaker or one side of the breaker is tripped. Seen it many times

View nathan1342's profile

nathan1342

11 posts in 1206 days


#13 posted 07-25-2016 03:11 AM



In the video i see 120v to ground on both sides but do you get 220 v between the two hot leads? You might have a bad breaker or one side of the breaker is tripped. Seen it many times

- nashranch

Well shoot, you might be right. I get nothing when testing from hot to hot. Does that mean my breaker is the issue?

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nashranch

46 posts in 2591 days


#14 posted 07-25-2016 03:42 AM

Ya probably..if yer careful you can check power right at the breaker terminals…but first try turning breaker off and resetting it ..then back on and see if that works

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nashranch

46 posts in 2591 days


#15 posted 07-25-2016 03:43 AM


hope that does it

- nashranch


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nathan1342

11 posts in 1206 days


#16 posted 07-25-2016 01:52 PM

Flipped the breaker off then on and i get the same thing. Question, if I’m measuring from hot to hot don’t I need to ground it somehow to get a reading?

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2019 days


#17 posted 07-25-2016 02:04 PM

No.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View bbrewer71's profile

bbrewer71

13 posts in 1206 days


#18 posted 07-25-2016 02:36 PM

When you test “hot to hot” you are seeing the potential for both legs of power because you are still making a circuit, albeit a circuit using a single phase, just not a circuit to ground.

Without a significant description of phasor mathematics and something called “complex numbers”, it would be very hard for me to describe in other terms why this happens.

I will try to draw up a schematic that will simplify it, I hope. Without getting into the vectors of wave forms and the ask the little x’s and y’s it would take a VERY long post to accurately describe. And God knows you don’t want to see the mathematical explanation. It makes my friggin head throb just thinking about it.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3553 posts in 2014 days


#19 posted 07-25-2016 02:48 PM

Excuse my ignorance, but I didn’t thing hot to hot would give a reading since there is no voltage difference between the two.

I’ve always done it by testing each hot to ground.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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nashranch

46 posts in 2591 days


#20 posted 07-25-2016 03:08 PM

replace the breaker Nathan

View nathan1342's profile

nathan1342

11 posts in 1206 days


#21 posted 07-25-2016 03:27 PM

I’ll pick up another breaker tonight and replace it and see what i get. I’ll report back with my findings.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7801 posts in 3447 days


#22 posted 07-25-2016 03:27 PM



Excuse my ignorance, but I didn t thing hot to hot would give a reading since there is no voltage difference between the two.
I ve always done it by testing each hot to ground.
- rwe2156

Each “hot” lead is a different phase. Same voltage but different phases, so you will be measuring only voltage from one of the hot leads in one direction with your multi-meter.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View the_other_ken's profile

the_other_ken

38 posts in 3508 days


#23 posted 07-25-2016 03:48 PM



Each “hot” lead is a different phase. Same voltage but different phases, so you will be measuring only voltage from one of the hot leads in one direction with your multi-meter.

- HorizontalMike

I’m betting that both of your hot leads are on the same phase. Not every location in a panel will allow a double breaker to connect to both phases. Have a careful look in your panel and make sure that each half of the breaker is actually on a different phase.

If both hots to ground give you 120V but the hot to hot gives nothing, then chances are that they are both the same phase.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2019 days


#24 posted 07-25-2016 05:32 PM

Or the breaker is bad or the switch is bad. Depends on where you test at.

The only thing you test and want little to no voltage between is the neutral and ground. They have essentially the same potential.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View bbrewer71's profile

bbrewer71

13 posts in 1206 days


#25 posted 07-25-2016 09:47 PM


Each “hot” lead is a different phase. Same voltage but different phases, so you will be measuring only voltage from one of the hot leads in one direction with your multi-meter.

- HorizontalMike

I m betting that both of your hot leads are on the same phase. Not every location in a panel will allow a double breaker to connect to both phases. Have a careful look in your panel and make sure that each half of the breaker is actually on a different phase.

If both hots to ground give you 120V but the hot to hot gives nothing, then chances are that they are both the same phase.

- theotherken

I agree with your analasses Mike. I think he has a double tapped breaker. Seen it a hell of a lot of times.
They run them two to your house along with a ground wire. They bond that to your house neutral which connects to your neutral buss. Then hook one leg to the “A” leg buss and the other to the “B” leg buss. That’s one reason they have a natural bar and a ground bar inside distribution panels.

But in residential power there is only single phase. Up at the transformer power from the magic pixie dancing ass wranglers (read power company) comes in on the one side goes thru the high side coil then back out on their primary ground making the transformer’s primary side of the circuit. That causes the magnetic inductance in the secondary side. Then they tap into it a two different places on the secondary side, essentially a positive tap and a negative tap. (But because it is AC it changes back and forth 60 times a second.)

Sorry guys my old lady calls what I did “verbally vomiting on people”. I can’t help it, us engineers are just bat shitte crazy line that.

View B_Woodworks's profile

B_Woodworks

14 posts in 1216 days


#26 posted 07-25-2016 10:02 PM

Try cleaning the carb. Check the fuel filter for debris. Oh wait…what forum is this again?

-- A. Baker - Bloomington, IL "Just a woodworking squirrel trying to get a nut."

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2365 posts in 3171 days


#27 posted 07-25-2016 10:40 PM

If it has never run on this circuit, I would agree that both hots are most likely the same phase. Hopefully the panel actually has both phases, but if it doesn’t, it will have to be rewired at the source. If you are at all uncertain of how to do this, call a pro.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2019 days


#28 posted 07-26-2016 05:02 AM

If it was working before and randomly quit working when not in use it’ll probably be something simple. I wouldn’t mess with the motor until I’m sure I’m getting 240v at the breaker and on the load side of the on/off switch.

Start there

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View nathan1342's profile

nathan1342

11 posts in 1206 days


#29 posted 07-26-2016 02:28 PM

I think everyone is right about the power being wrong. I looked into my panel further and realized that there are only certain area’s where double pole breakers can fit. The thqp double pole breaker has a metal tab on the bottom of it which only allows it to fit into certain area’s on the panel. On the breaker installed that metal piece happened to break off and it fit. But it fit in an area where only 120 is supplied to single pole breakers. I need to check into it more tonight and see if i an move some breakers around so this one fits.

If it doesn’t, can i use 2 single pole breakers and tie the trip buttons together?

View bbrewer71's profile

bbrewer71

13 posts in 1206 days


#30 posted 07-26-2016 02:35 PM

No, well yes you can, I mean physically you can. However when you go to sell the house the inspector may want it changed. If you do it use a piece of 12 or 14 awg ground wire. That way it will make both trip at the same time.

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waho6o9

8785 posts in 3110 days


#31 posted 07-26-2016 02:37 PM

Call a pro

View nathan1342's profile

nathan1342

11 posts in 1206 days


#32 posted 07-27-2016 12:05 AM

Thanks for all the help! It was the breaker. I needed to move the breaker down one slot, it was in two slots made for a single pole. popped it in there and it fired right up. Now i can finally get back to work.

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GR8HUNTER

6539 posts in 1246 days


#33 posted 07-27-2016 12:08 AM

that’s GREAT

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

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nashranch

46 posts in 2591 days


#34 posted 07-27-2016 12:33 AM

Saweet Nathan

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ohtimberwolf

936 posts in 2885 days


#35 posted 07-27-2016 11:40 AM

I’m not great at this but it has left me confused as to why it ran before with no problem. ???

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View RandyinFlorida's profile

RandyinFlorida

257 posts in 2601 days


#36 posted 07-27-2016 12:31 PM

Timberwolf, it was running in another house. It had never been used in the new location.

I love how the this whole scenario worked out for you Nathan. It’s really cool to see people from all over come together to solve a problem. Now if we could only solve global warming…

-- Randy in Crestview Florida, Wood Rocks!

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TheGreatJon

348 posts in 1767 days


#37 posted 07-27-2016 01:15 PM

I’m late to the party, but I’m glad things worked out. Also, congrats on not getting yourself electrocuted or burned up! Every time I wire something in my shop I feel like I need to flip the switch with a 6ft pole when I energize it for the first time.


Without a significant description of phasor mathematics and something called “complex numbers”, it would be very hard for me to describe in other terms why this happens.
- bbrewer71

Each “hot” lead is a different phase. Same voltage but different phases, so you will be measuring only voltage from one of the hot leads in one direction with your multi-meter.
- HorizontalMike

..in on the one side goes thru the high side coil then back out on their primary ground making the transformer s primary side of the circuit. That causes the magnetic inductance in the secondary side.
- bbrewer71

You guys are giving me some horrible flashbacks to EEng 201. Us mechanical guys aren’t meant to muddle through all of that phase crap. It was just cruel to make us take that class.

-- This is not the signature line you are looking for.

View nathan1342's profile

nathan1342

11 posts in 1206 days


#38 posted 07-27-2016 02:26 PM


Timberwolf, it was running in another house. It had never been used in the new location.

I love how the this whole scenario worked out for you Nathan. It s really cool to see people from all over come together to solve a problem. Now if we could only solve global warming…
- RandyinFlorida

Absolutely, my next step was to take it to a motor repair place since I thought I was testing the power correctly. Saved me a ton of time and hassle! Thanks again!

View waho6o9's profile (online now)

waho6o9

8785 posts in 3110 days


#39 posted 07-27-2016 02:28 PM

Great news Nathan1342!

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

6539 posts in 1246 days


#40 posted 07-27-2016 02:33 PM

THIS kind of reminds me when I had to replace a simple switch on my walker turner table saw…. .and I had to call in a motor service company to hook it up ….. why ? ..... because the GREEN wire was a hot .........LMAO

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

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ohtimberwolf

936 posts in 2885 days


#41 posted 07-28-2016 12:18 AM

There is the problem, I didn’t see anywhere that said it was in another house that it was running. Dumb me.

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View TheGreatJon's profile

TheGreatJon

348 posts in 1767 days


#42 posted 07-28-2016 02:42 PM



THIS kind of reminds me when I had to replace a simple switch on my walker turner table saw…. .and I had to call in a motor service company to hook it up ….. why ? ..... because the GREEN wire was a hot .........LMAO

- GR8HUNTER

Just about had to do that with a DeWalt RAS recently. There were 4 wires going from the motor to the starter for a 2hp single phase motor?! Red was the ground, two wires were tied to the same leg on the switch, the other side of the switch had zero wires connected because the last wire was pigtailed directly to a hot lead from the outlet!! Never seen such goofy wiring before (not that I’m a pro or anything). If I hadn’t had it running for the previous year without any issues I would’ve sworn it was more likely to fry the motor than turn the blade.

-- This is not the signature line you are looking for.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7801 posts in 3447 days


#43 posted 07-28-2016 02:55 PM



Thanks for all the help! It was the breaker. I needed to move the breaker down one slot, it was in two slots made for a single pole. popped it in there and it fired right up. Now i can finally get back to work. nathan1342

Bingo! FWIW, you might just check all of the other breakers in the box for any “other” oddly placed breakers.. You never know.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View nathan1342's profile

nathan1342

11 posts in 1206 days


#44 posted 07-28-2016 02:57 PM


Thanks for all the help! It was the breaker. I needed to move the breaker down one slot, it was in two slots made for a single pole. popped it in there and it fired right up. Now i can finally get back to work. nathan1342

Bingo! FWIW, you might just check all of the other breakers in the box for any “other” oddly placed breakers.. You never know.

- HorizontalMike

I actually did and found that the wires for the dryer breaker weren’t even screwed in. they were just hanging loosely. Its amazing what you find when you buy a 25 year old house.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7801 posts in 3447 days


#45 posted 07-29-2016 11:36 PM



Thanks for all the help! It was the breaker. I needed to move the breaker down one slot, it was in two slots made for a single pole. popped it in there and it fired right up. Now i can finally get back to work. nathan1342

Bingo! FWIW, you might just check all of the other breakers in the box for any “other” oddly placed breakers.. You never know.
- HorizontalMike

I actually did and found that the wires for the dryer breaker weren t even screwed in. they were just hanging loosely. Its amazing what you find when you buy a 25 year old house.
- nathan1342

DOUBLE BINGO! You win! Keep an eye open and you should be OK. Well done!!!...

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2019 days


#46 posted 07-29-2016 11:55 PM

Is it a GE panel?

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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