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Blade marks from the table saw

by Nick
posted 04-18-2016 02:31 AM


23 replies so far

View ROB_IN_MN's profile

ROB_IN_MN

35 posts in 2916 days


#1 posted 04-18-2016 02:42 AM

getting sawmark-free cuts is kind of the holy grail. the higher the number of teeth on the blade, the less marks you get, but also the longer it takes to make a rip-type cut.

Most people use a high tooth count blade for cuts across the grain (called crosscuts) and a lower tooth count blade for going with the grain (called rip cuts).

there are blades that are called ‘glue line’ blades that are marketed as giving a very smooth cut that can be directly glued and have no need for sanding. have never tried one, but they sound too good to be true.

as for sanding affecting the squareness, that’ll improve with time as you do more sanding. that’s really the only help for it.

View jerryminer's profile

jerryminer

960 posts in 2211 days


#2 posted 04-18-2016 05:29 AM

Blade marks are normal. They CAN be eliminated, but it takes a high-end blade (not a Diablo—though Diablo blades are decent) and a well-tuned saw (and/or power feeder). Most of us just deal with the saw marks, by sanding or planing.

-- Jerry, making sawdust professionally since 1976

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8382 posts in 4145 days


#3 posted 04-18-2016 09:25 AM

No saw blade will give truly finish-ready cuts, but good TS setup and good blade selection can help. Plan on at leaTipst some light sanding prior to adding stain/clear coats. Stock saw blades are notoriously poor performers, and most cheaper blades at the homecenters are similar. You can do better with reasonable cost blades like the Irwin Marples series at Lowes, or the Freud Diablo series at HD, DeWalt Precision Trim, CMT ITK Plus, or even the Oshlun line. For more money, you can get even better blades from Freud Industrial or Premier, CMT Industrial, Infinity, Amana, Forrest, Ridge Carbide, Tenryu. Guhdo, etc. Plan on spending at least $30 on a decent blade.

Tips for Picking Saw Blades (and improving saw performance)

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View lennyk's profile

lennyk

34 posts in 1601 days


#4 posted 04-18-2016 11:38 AM

practice your push technique, I also got frustrated and went and bought a featherboard
only to realize that it could barely fit on my small dw745 and basically unuseable.

I improved my push technique but using my left hand to push the stock towards the fence just before the blade
and steady push with right hand/push stick.

I also have my blade just barely angled away on the trailing end from the fence so if burn marks were to occur
it would only be from the front edge.

Using purpose blades makes a huge difference too, rip or cross for the application.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5784 posts in 3121 days


#5 posted 04-18-2016 12:32 PM

One swipe w/ a sharp block plane and saw marks are gone.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View Mikesawdust's profile

Mikesawdust

330 posts in 3809 days


#6 posted 04-18-2016 01:00 PM

The main time I get blade marks is from wood movement, so I cut within 1/16” of the finish line on short boards and then finish with another run through. If the edge is still straight it works out. On a long board I’ll go 1/4’ – 38” wide and let it sit a days before checking for straightness, joining if necessary and running it to the actual size needed. All the wood here is air dried and rough cut, so the extra steps are needed but I can usually get through with minimal saw marks.

-- You never cut a piece to short, you are just prepping that piece for a future project

View Robert's profile

Robert

3738 posts in 2250 days


#7 posted 04-18-2016 01:51 PM

Re check for the fence to blade for parallel a little closer. I’ll bet this is the problem. Don’t try to eyeball it. You can use a dial indicator or a block of wood for reference. Measure to the same tooth front and back. Set the fence 2-3 thou more at the back of the blade.

If this checks out, then use a dial indicator and check the arbor for run out.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View JBrow's profile

JBrow

1368 posts in 1690 days


#8 posted 04-18-2016 02:28 PM

Nick,

I have a Woodworker II combination blade on a well-tuned table saw, just as jerryminer suggests. I still get tale-tell blade marks left behind from a rip cut. Most are barely visible, but would be very noticeable if finish were applied without removing the marks. Many ripped pieces seem to have at least one slightly deeper blade mark than the other marks. This is probably due to the lumber diving into blade during the cut; either due to the edge that is against the fence not being perfectly straight or a very slight rotation of the board away from the fence during the cut. As jerryminer suggests, I think a power feeder could eliminate some of these left over marks, by keeping the stock tight against the fence and moving it through the cut at the same rate.

Whenever I want to a set of workpieces to end up at a given width with two clean edges, I first joint one straight and smooth the edge that sets against the fence. I rip the workpieces perhaps 1/32” wider than needed. After ripping, I run the ripped edge over the joiner to clean up the marks. The ripped edge of each workpiece is run over the jointer an equal number of times until I get to the needed dimension.

View BinghamtonEd's profile

BinghamtonEd

2298 posts in 3139 days


#9 posted 04-18-2016 02:30 PM

I’ve learned to deal with it. On my Bosch 4100 with Diablo blades, I used to pull my hair out trying to get rid of them. The fence just has too much play. I’ve got the marks minimized, but they’re still there. If it’s just a few parts, I’ll hit them with a hand plane and move on. If its a lot of parts, like a bunch of rails/stiles, I’ll cut them within 1/16” of final width, and then send them on edge, a few at a time, through my planer, both sides.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

View unbob's profile

unbob

810 posts in 2673 days


#10 posted 04-18-2016 03:00 PM


Re check for the fence to blade for parallel a little closer. I ll bet this is the problem. Don t try to eyeball it. You can use a dial indicator or a block of wood for reference. Measure to the same tooth front and back. Set the fence 2-3 thou more at the back of the blade.

If this checks out, then use a dial indicator and check the arbor for run out.

- rwe2156


This is what I also do, I can get good results with the cheap blades.

View toolie's profile

toolie

2185 posts in 3398 days


#11 posted 04-18-2016 03:10 PM

IMHO, it is inappropriate to check fence alignment to the blade. I’d check miter slot to blade and then fence alignment to the same miter slot.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Nick's profile

Nick

5 posts in 1539 days


#12 posted 04-18-2016 06:08 PM

Thanks all – great tips and insight here. Happy to have joined the community.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3738 posts in 2250 days


#13 posted 04-18-2016 08:01 PM



IMHO, it is inappropriate to check fence alignment to the blade. I d check miter slot to blade and then fence alignment to the same miter slot.

- toolie

Less error directly checking blade to fence. Technically you’re doubling the chance of error the way you described, but it will still be close enough if one is careful.

As long as the arbor is within specs and blade is good and you use the same tooth on the blade it is extremely accurate.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View GaryM3348's profile

GaryM3348

7 posts in 822 days


#14 posted 04-03-2020 02:52 PM

For some reason, that I’m not sure I understand, some blades leave a rougher edge and more marks. The best edge i have found is the 80 tooth finishing blades. But they are not all equal either. CMT, thin kerf blades will make a knife edge on a board cut at 45 degrees. Conversely a brand new Saw Stop , 80 tooth, finishing blade with the angles of the teeth cut at the same as the CMT, leave a very rough edge on the same saw. The blades are within 1.5 thousands of parallel with the table and miter gauge. I honestly don’t understand why?

View splintergroup's profile

splintergroup

3774 posts in 1992 days


#15 posted 04-03-2020 03:31 PM

To me, with all else being in generally food condition, smells of the blade not being parallel to the fence (rear of blade is closer to the fence than the leading edge.

A simple test is to see if moving your fence to the other side and doing a rip produces a cleaner cut.

View Foghorn's profile

Foghorn

510 posts in 156 days


#16 posted 04-03-2020 03:36 PM

For material thinner than 1”, try a 40 tooth, 7 1/4” Freud Diablo. Cheaper blades and great for the thicknesses a lot of us work with. Very clean cuts.

-- Darrel

View GaryM3348's profile

GaryM3348

7 posts in 822 days


#17 posted 04-03-2020 03:58 PM

I have a i-gauge table saw alignment tools to set my blades parallel to the table top. I have the analog model. It seems to work pretty well. I can align with in a thousand of a inch or so.

View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

988 posts in 2419 days


#18 posted 04-03-2020 04:37 PM

To expect no saw marks is asking too much. Goal is to less that a hair shaving with a plane. Wayback in ‘16 when this thread started, I might have suggested the OP needs some instruction in sanding blocks.
Those “glue line” blades are pretty incredible though. My cuts got cleaner when I dumped the “Fusion” for a 24 tooth rip and 60 tooth crosscut. I need to get a better miter saw blade ( full thickness) and that will free up my 80 tooth Diablo.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

14002 posts in 1908 days


#19 posted 04-03-2020 07:44 PM

What kind of wood are you cutting and what kind of blade for what kind of cut? An 80 tooth blade is awesome but, it’s either for cross-cuts or plywood/melamine. If you use that same blade for ripping, your results aren’t gonna be the same. Conversely, a 24 tooth rip blade can leave a surface as smooth as a baby’s butt on a rip cut but it’s gonna look like you chewed through a crosscut. The number of teeth and the grind used for different blades are important for specific types of cuts. Also, some woods like pine and Cherry are just prone to burning. Even with a high-end blade and perfect setup and technique, you can’t always avoid it. I personally do what I can to get as clean of a cut as I can but I never expect that the wood will come off the blade finish-ready. Sometimes it does but more often it needs a quick swipe of a block plane or a few strokes with a sanding block.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View Jim Finn's profile

Jim Finn

2835 posts in 3692 days


#20 posted 04-03-2020 09:33 PM

I have best cuts on rip cuts (that is the only cuts I do on my table saw) using a 24 teeth blade (Ten inch Diablo blade)

-- No PHD just a DD214 Lubbock Texas

View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

988 posts in 2419 days


#21 posted 04-03-2020 10:28 PM

Diablo D1024x $26. No excuses.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

3153 posts in 2264 days


#22 posted 04-04-2020 12:40 AM

Another 4 year old thread resuscitation? Guess Covid-19 has folks looking for things to do?

IMHO – knotscott answered the OP question.
Tips for Picking Saw Blades (and improving saw performanc

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View Foghorn's profile

Foghorn

510 posts in 156 days


#23 posted 04-04-2020 12:45 AM



Another 4 year old thread resuscitation? Guess Covid-19 has folks looking for things to do?

IMHO – knotscott answered the OP question.
Tips for Picking Saw Blades (and improving saw performanc

- CaptainKlutz

Ha! We’re all digging deep right now and re-evaluating and really getting into the new minutiae of things. :)

-- Darrel

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