LumberJocks

All Replies on Workbenches - Tail Vise - Why is the End Jaw sticking out?

  • Advertise with us
View PurpLev's profile

Workbenches - Tail Vise - Why is the End Jaw sticking out?

by PurpLev
posted 05-26-2009 11:01 PM


25 replies so far

View Karson's profile

Karson

35270 posts in 5453 days


#1 posted 05-26-2009 11:04 PM

I’m waiting for the answer. I don’t plan on making one, but it’s a great question.

-- I've been blessed with a father who liked to tinker in wood, and a wife who lets me tinker in wood. Appomattox Virginia [email protected]

View Cato's profile

Cato

701 posts in 4365 days


#2 posted 05-26-2009 11:22 PM

Lev, not sure why that gap is there. I googled and found this guys workbench project and no gap on the tail vise on his, nor on the one I have that was my grandfathers.
Say how are you going to fit that workbench with your car in the garage?

http://www.wordsnwood.com/2001/p.bench/

Also this site has a work bench forum that would probably have your answer
http://www.workbenchdesign.net/bench.html

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8652 posts in 4701 days


#3 posted 05-26-2009 11:30 PM

Thanks Cato, I’ve lurked that site already, some good info there.

I’ve seen some tail vises that are flush all around, and some that are like the first link you posted- with no ‘end jaw’ to them.

I like the idea of the traditional vise – with the front jaw AND the end jaw. Nyquist designed a tail vise that closes flush with both front and end jaws, this give you the possibility to clamp on both faces.

I’m just curious – why the gap on the “traditional type” vises. I assume there is a reason for it – but what is it?

Edit:

P.S. – that workbench is going to go in the living room – I still have some room there.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View lew's profile

lew

13332 posts in 4807 days


#4 posted 05-26-2009 11:31 PM

I always thought the tail vice was used to hold stock flat on TOP of the bench- wedged between two bench dogs. If that’s the case, the vice would not really have to close tight. Of course this type of answer is how rumors get started.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View degoose's profile

degoose

7281 posts in 4407 days


#5 posted 05-27-2009 12:31 AM

When someone finds out I too would like to know.

-- Don't drink and use power tools @ lasercreationsbylarry.com.au

View Francisco Luna's profile

Francisco Luna

1003 posts in 4445 days


#6 posted 05-27-2009 12:36 AM

Good point.
I would say, it is either for aesthetic reasons -the proportion between the front rail length and the vise face piece- OR to give the right “room” to the screw length, commercially available.

This pictures belw ilustrate my second theory.

-- Nature is my manifestation of God. I go to nature every day for inspiration in the day's work. I follow in building the principles which nature has used in its domain" Frank Lloyd Wright

View cabinetmaster's profile

cabinetmaster

10873 posts in 4610 days


#7 posted 05-27-2009 02:43 AM

Looking at the picture, the end vise and the square section that it is attached to both have about the same gap. Looks like this may serve a double purpose. Look at the gap where the end leg is on the front. I think that whole section is part of the end vise.

-- Jerry--A man can never have enough tools or clamps

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8652 posts in 4701 days


#8 posted 05-27-2009 03:00 AM

haha, I’m glad so many find this an interesting question. I thought about it for a long time. but never saw an explanation yet.

Francisco – the pics you posted are what I’m following – it’s the Frank Klauzs bench from “The Workbench” book. I thought like you did -that it’s to accomodate the factory screw- but if thats the case, the bench could be made longer- or the vise assembly could be embeded deeper in the bench which would make the jaw close flush with the bench? so I’m not sure if that’s the reason.

Dave – as you mentioned, there are tail vises that do not have the ‘end jaw’ but are just a square block that completes the bench surface.

I am interested in the idea of having both the tail vise to use with bench dogs, and ALSO an end vise that can hold parts like a front vise can. kinda getting the best of both worlds.

Francisco- from that same book, there is an page that refers to the Nyquist design – in that page they talk about how most traditional vises have that gap – but his design eliminates it and actually make use of both jaws of the vise – that’s what triggered my interest. but even there- there is no mention of WHY the other vises have that gap…

cabinetmaster- it might seem like they have the same gap, but the inner jaw closes flush, while the outer jaw does have an open gap. google ‘Frank Klausz Bench” or “Traditional Bench” and you’ll see what I mean.

so – we have more interest , but still no answer…

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8652 posts in 4701 days


#9 posted 05-27-2009 03:17 AM

Yup- read that book too. I’m not a big fan of the LV twin screw – too many issues with this one, and at $300 – way out of my budget even if it was perfect.

I like the tail vise for it’s ability to hold pieces vertical between it’s front jaw and bench. I think it’s a very versatile vise. that, and the shoulder vise. only thing is – they are much more intricate to build and install compared to a cast front/end vise. so before I get into any final designs and bill of parts- I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View Francisco Luna's profile

Francisco Luna

1003 posts in 4445 days


#10 posted 05-27-2009 03:28 AM

“but if thats the case, the bench could be made longer- or the vise assembly could be embeded deeper in the bench which would make the jaw close flush with the bench?”

mmmm…that makes sense…..

I dont see any impediment to make what you want, the only thing is to notch that bolt head at the pic…..


-- Nature is my manifestation of God. I go to nature every day for inspiration in the day's work. I follow in building the principles which nature has used in its domain" Frank Lloyd Wright

View Francisco Luna's profile

Francisco Luna

1003 posts in 4445 days


#11 posted 05-27-2009 04:25 AM

Sharon …........If you need to get more inspired,visit: www.workbench.se….........;)

-- Nature is my manifestation of God. I go to nature every day for inspiration in the day's work. I follow in building the principles which nature has used in its domain" Frank Lloyd Wright

View marcb's profile

marcb

768 posts in 4725 days


#12 posted 05-27-2009 08:44 AM

I prefer a shoulder vise to a tail vise. A well setup shoulder vise will hold boards both with dogs and in the opening as needed.

Flush, smooth sleek and supported the entire length so you can really go to town with a Scrub or jack without worrying about the screw.

View kiwi1969's profile

kiwi1969

608 posts in 4494 days


#13 posted 05-27-2009 09:18 AM

I can,t comment because I don,t own a vice :-)

-- if the hand is not working it is not a pure hand

View Doug S.'s profile

Doug S.

295 posts in 4760 days


#14 posted 05-28-2009 03:56 PM

This is in the same price range as the LV twinscrew, but definitely a slick setup for a tail vise
http://benchcrafted.com/vises.htm

-- Use the fence Luke

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8652 posts in 4701 days


#15 posted 05-28-2009 04:09 PM

Thanks Doug – as I stated here I would have loved to get this vise – but WAAAAY out of my budget – although , if anyone here wants to send me one – I’ll PM you my address :o)

I did take the idea from that vise and will attempt to replicate it’s functionality with a $40 Lee-Valley Tail vise screw and some wood blocks/rails (maybe some iron if I can find it)

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View lwllms's profile

lwllms

555 posts in 4334 days


#16 posted 06-01-2009 02:54 PM

The traditional tail vise is designed so that it’s basically a torsion box with two legs. The legs have a guide on the end that runs parallel to the front of the bench. It’s designed to more evenly distribute clamping pressure and to prevent racking of the vise. The gap at the end of the bench isn’t intended to hold or clamp anything but the space is important because after quite a bit of use it becomes necessary to reface the jaws of the vise. Wooden vise jaws need to be replaceable or you need to be able to periodically dress them back to true. The gap at the end allows removing material in refacing and still being able to completely close the vise.

I think the tail vise is probably the most versatile vice on a traditional bench. Because we work mostly smallish pieces of wood, we built two of our benches so they have only tail vises and each bench has two of them. I have a shoulder vise on my main bench but I very rarely use it.

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8652 posts in 4701 days


#17 posted 06-01-2009 03:31 PM

NICE!

Thanks IWllms for that clarification – it makes quite a bit of sense! I’m sure many here were wondering the same thing.

I take it from your work making planes -that you use the tail vises for mostly those? do you do any endgrain joinery (dovetails/boxjoints) using those tail vises? it seems like a shoulder vise would be more adequate to handle those type of work.

Thanks again for the post!

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View lwllms's profile

lwllms

555 posts in 4334 days


#18 posted 06-01-2009 08:28 PM

I don’t get to do much regular joinery any more. When I did, I often used the shoulder vise for dovetails and such. My main bench is kind of a modified Klaus/Frid bench with the traditional shoulder vise. I think the vise has so much capacity it actually gets in the way. If I were making it today, I’d shorten the commercially made vise screw. I can’t imagine ever needing a shoulder vise capacity greater than maybe 4 1/4”. If I remember right, the vise screw gives 8” of capacity. I don’t think I’ll ever try to work 8” thick stock on edge in the shoulder vise. It was a rare occasion I used anything thicker than 8/4 stock.

View David65's profile

David65

190 posts in 4338 days


#19 posted 06-01-2009 09:08 PM

Here is a link for New Yankee Work Shop the work bench I have built for my work shop. http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct.php?102
I did some modifications to make it work off of a tail vice screw. On the block I cut thru it for the screw and that puts the handle flush with the table end. The only thing is the bench dogs are short for the tail peace.

-- David '65

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8652 posts in 4701 days


#20 posted 06-01-2009 09:15 PM

Thanks Iwllms- I agree that the shoulder vise can get in the way, and it is capable of ~8” opening. (7 1/4” to be exact) now sure how I could shorten this 1 1/8” acme thread personally though, so I’ll stick to what it’s got for now.

David – do you have picture of your bench? from the NYWS it’s hard to tell what’s going on with the vise.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View SCOTSMAN's profile

SCOTSMAN

5849 posts in 4637 days


#21 posted 06-01-2009 10:27 PM

Usually these vices have a complete set up of metal plates forming the dovetail works that it slides on maybe the gap is there so that this can be accessed to be adjusted from time to time. I don’t really know either.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

View lwllms's profile

lwllms

555 posts in 4334 days


#22 posted 06-02-2009 04:10 AM

PurpLev,

Photos? Which bench? First is my main bench:

But the tail vise is more visible in the photo of one of our smaller benches:

I don’t have a photo of the underside of the bench. The front jaw is the same length as the tail of the vise and is rabbeted to fit under the main portion of the bench, which is about half as thick as the front of the bench. There’s a connecting piece that runs between the tail of the vise and the front jaw and this piece runs in a chase parallel to the front edge of the bench. It’s like a big box but with no bottom and you can see how thin the partial top is. It’s actually somewhat hollow below that top which is where the screw is and the partial top is part of what keeps everything square.

It’s hard to describe. I’d scan Tage Frid’s plans from Issue #4 of FWW but I don’t want to violate copyright laws. My advise is that, if you build this design, you move the leg set that supports the vise further than either Frid or Klaus have in their designs. The vise will eventually sag if you put it where they show. I also cut a 45º angle where the face of the bench dogs set down into the bench. On my first bench, which I replaced, I built it the way Frid shows which makes a small shelf to collect dust and scraps which keeps the dogs from seating all the way down when you want them out of the way. I cut the same angle on the bottom of the dog faces so they don’t sink too far down. Cleaning the little shelf is now just a matter of removing and replacing the bench dog. I used to have to scrape it clean with a screwdriver, chisel or something.

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8652 posts in 4701 days


#23 posted 06-02-2009 04:40 AM

Thanks Iwllms. I have the plans for the Frank Klausz bench, but I’m only basing my design on that bench as I’m building my bench based on certain restrictions, and things I need to take into account.

This question just rose as I was designing the bench, and noticed this fact about tail vises -but with no apparent reason in sight – your explanation is the first I’ve come upon on this matter, and hit the nail (no pun intended). :) Thanks, and also thanks for the photos – I like that small bench.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View stefang's profile

stefang

17040 posts in 4386 days


#24 posted 06-03-2009 03:08 PM

Maybe to give access to the bolts at the end of the bench?

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View MarkBacklund's profile

MarkBacklund

1 post in 100 days


#25 posted 01-03-2021 01:49 AM

I’ve been searching all day to find plans for building a Nyquist tail vise onto my workbench. Does anyone know where I might find such? Lon Schleining’s wonderful “The Workbench” book has beautiful photos of it with general description, but the devil is in the details! Need plans!

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com