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Help with shop floor please

by pdxrealtor
posted 05-30-2015 08:24 PM


25 replies so far

View cutmantom's profile

cutmantom

408 posts in 4051 days


#1 posted 05-30-2015 08:33 PM

Have layout marks on the plywood and push or pull the joists into place, you need a straight side to start on so if the beam isn’t straight you need to brace it straight, once the plywood is down it will hold it, hope this helps

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pdxrealtor

104 posts in 2241 days


#2 posted 05-30-2015 09:07 PM

So, if I have a nice straight right angle (front and house side) I can have some slop on the fence side and back side?

View Ghidrah's profile

Ghidrah

667 posts in 2239 days


#3 posted 05-30-2015 09:10 PM

You’re going to have a helluva time side walling and installing winds along the property line let alone direct nailing the joists to the inner box. Are you sure the local town/building dept abutment variance allows for structures to be that close?

1st you need to run a string through the center of the girt as an alignment gauge. Rip and point 2×4s, bang them in the ground and use them to straighten and hold the girt in place. From the girt line meas out 8’ then subtract the doubled box, (actual dims) and 1/2 the girt for all joist lengths. Cut and tack in place, cut and nail inner box material in place. Layout and mark the girt and box for joists and any access holes.

If you cut all joists the same, if you ensure the centering line on the girt is dead center the inner box will be straight. Once 5 or 6 joists fastened to one end I would diag that side to ensure square then tack a 10’/2×4 diag across said joists. Continue side one then string along/across diag end for side 2, set 5 or 6 joists then repeat side 1 and fin joists. Install all hangers, snap lines for 1st row ply both sides, and layout ply to match joists, (hard to screw up if do correctly, I suggest marking and using the edge of joist instead of middle make layout line then X to show correct position of joist).

-- I meant to do that!

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pdxrealtor

104 posts in 2241 days


#4 posted 05-30-2015 09:34 PM

^^ I think I follow you – thanks. I’ll need to start before I know for sure if I understand.

The setback lines are void if built on skids or pad with d-rings. I”ve been tacking the joists on the inside, then placing the joist hangers.

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pdxrealtor

104 posts in 2241 days


#5 posted 05-30-2015 09:41 PM

I should have got 4×12s.

View BurlyBob's profile

BurlyBob

8518 posts in 3282 days


#6 posted 05-31-2015 01:06 AM

PDX is all that lumber pressure treated? It’s got that brown color based on the photos.

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pdxrealtor

104 posts in 2241 days


#7 posted 05-31-2015 01:45 AM

Yes. :)

View Ghidrah's profile

Ghidrah

667 posts in 2239 days


#8 posted 05-31-2015 03:29 AM

So now I’m confused, it looks to me like your girt and box are sitting on 9 sona tubes not a sled.
What’s the stipulation size limit of a structure within 10’ of an abutting property in your area?
You also won’t be able to nail off the sheathing to the box and sill facing the abutting property either.

The Town Building Dept must have extremely lax local variance in your part of the country.

Good luck with your endeavor.

-- I meant to do that!

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pdxrealtor

104 posts in 2241 days


#9 posted 05-31-2015 07:08 PM



So now I m confused, it looks to me like your girt and box are sitting on 9 sona tubes not a sled.
What s the stipulation size limit of a structure within 10 of an abutting property in your area?
You also won t be able to nail off the sheathing to the box and sill facing the abutting property either.

The Town Building Dept must have extremely lax local variance in your part of the country.

Good luck with your endeavor.

- Ghidrah

Maybe I’m confused? My understanding is that if the structure is ‘move-able’ it voids the setback line rule. The only reason they are on piers is to level the main beams, or skids. The only reason there is anchors on the piers is for ease of fine tune leveling, both now and in the future should they settle any.

I don’t plan to run the sheathing down to the box. Only down just past the plate. I will install the one layer of sheathing (T-11) before I lift that wall into place.

View Blackie_'s profile

Blackie_

4883 posts in 3529 days


#10 posted 05-31-2015 08:05 PM

That’s going to be a heavy wall trying to lift it with exterior sheathing on it also what if you’re out of square?, You still need your exterior trim, lowers, corners, uppers along with caulking and paint. once the wall is up along with overhang ceiling joists and your sofits, looks like it’s going to over hang into your neighbors property in which they may have an issue with that, I know I would.

-- Randy - If I'm not on LJ's then I'm making Saw Dust. Please feel free to visit my store location at http://www.facebook.com/randy.blackstock.custom.wood.designs

View Ghidrah's profile

Ghidrah

667 posts in 2239 days


#11 posted 06-01-2015 03:21 AM

PSXrealtor,
I don’t know where you live but in the current IRC, (International Residential Code) building code, a structure on piers, (deck or building) must be fixed to the piers with hurricane anchors, that is not conducive to or considered a free moving structure. I live on Cape Cod Ma., the local abutment variance for structures over 100sqft is a minimum of 10 feet off the property line, (considered a fire lane). 100 sqft and under, if on sleds can be within 10 feet of PL, (can be pushed/pulled aside by FD). The pic shown appears to have the edge of the deck against the chain link fence.

You’re asking for trouble with your sheathing idea too, drafts insect invasion.

Each town has it’s own variances that often supersede the state code for various reasons, rarely if ever below.

Stupid question, I really hate to ask, “You pulled a permit yeah”?

-- I meant to do that!

View Rxmpo's profile

Rxmpo

270 posts in 4762 days


#12 posted 06-01-2015 04:16 AM

I built a 12×14 shed in my backyard and they went over my drawings with a fine tooth comb! It was 75ft from property line and they pulled the property survey to ensure my numbers were right… I would be shocked if the answer to your question Ghidrah is yes.

View FellingStudio's profile

FellingStudio

93 posts in 2699 days


#13 posted 06-01-2015 03:01 PM

You might want to check with the city before you get in trouble PDX regarding variances, definitions of “mobile” and such. Your structure is definitely not to local code.

Now, with all of the building going on here in Portland, you MIGHT be able to get away with an unpermitted structure. The inspectors are awfully busy and all, but if they happen by your jobsite and notice it and recall that they don’t have anything on the books there, they might just stop. Then you will be looking at fines as well as tearing your structure down. Also worth considering is that getting any subs (like electricians) to work on an unpermitted structure is going to be a little harder.

-- Jesse Felling - http://www.fellingstudio.com

View pdxrealtor's profile

pdxrealtor

104 posts in 2241 days


#14 posted 06-01-2015 04:02 PM

Wow! A whole lot of glass half empty in here!

Thanks Ghidrah. Your suggestions got the thing within 1” over the 16’ mark. I split the difference and laid the plywood.

View Ghidrah's profile

Ghidrah

667 posts in 2239 days


#15 posted 06-02-2015 12:31 AM

pdxrealtor, everyone’s concern is because of all the anomalies at the beginning of the project.

Being 1” off is likely from math errors, either you didn’t subtract the actual (DB&1/2G) dims from the joists, (Double Box and 1/2 Girt) and or you didn’t square one end of the joist, measure off it and subtract (DB &1/2G) from 96”. In a (paper world) it would be 4 1/2”, (real world) with fresh PT lumber could be up to 4 7/8”.
Minus the actual (DB&1/2G) dim from 96”, mark it and your dead monkeys with the cut.

Some may not be aware most framing lumber, (minus 2X4 & 6) 7’4 and 8’ studding is anywhere from a 1/2” to 1” longer than the stated length. If one were to err in assuming an 8’ 2X8 or 10 was square and exactly 8’ then measure off an arbitray end, a major error will show up when applying the subfloor, gable wall and possibly roof sheathing.

Another mistake the novice makes is butting the ply tight at the sides, CDX does expand and contract much more than AC or furniture grade ply. It tends to buckle in high heat and moisture, even T&G ply does.

-- I meant to do that!

View FellingStudio's profile

FellingStudio

93 posts in 2699 days


#16 posted 06-02-2015 01:30 AM



Wow! A whole lot of glass half empty in here!

- pdxrealtor

Just saying that as a fella who lives and works in Portland, and knowing the local inspectors and building codes (having spent a significant time doing construction), that you might want to slow down and actually pay for your permits. I know that they are expensive, but you get ownership, you don’t have to lie on the forms when you sell your place, and you will get the peace of mind that you have built your structure correctly, and it won’t fall down with the next earthquake or burn up because you have made some goofy electrical mistake.

Call that glass half empty if you will, but it just seems prudent to me.

-- Jesse Felling - http://www.fellingstudio.com

View ic3ss's profile

ic3ss

399 posts in 3793 days


#17 posted 06-02-2015 02:57 AM

So if the pier blocks are for leveling it flat, how will it sit when you’re done? You said that it had to be mobile on skids in order to be allowed to sit that close to your house. How will you, and at what point are you going to put a temporary base under it? What you have here is not movable.

Seems like the cart before the horse to me. My guess is that you’ll learn to hate having it that close on both sides. Here in salem, I built mine without permits but mine was 168 sf. Over 240 sf requires a permit, and yours is well over that. Being in PDX, they’re probably more strict than Salem. Also, if it burns down (I’m sure you’re going to have electricity that your wired yourself) your insurance won’t touch it. And if it burns your house down because it’s too close, then you’re really screwed.

Good luck.

Wayne

-- "I am endeavoring, ma'am, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bear skins."

View crank49's profile

crank49

4032 posts in 3987 days


#18 posted 06-02-2015 03:03 AM

My 16’ x 24’ shop is sitting on piers, not movable.
I put piers every 8 ft, so 3 across the width, 4 along the length, 12 total.
My center and my band are all PT 2×12, doubled down the center.
My floor joists are all PT 2×10s on 12” centers.
I insulated the floor with R30 fiberglass.
Floored with Advantech, PT T&G 3/4 OSB with 50 year warranty.
Built it last year, before I got laid off and out of work for 4 months.
Just now getting the inside finished and moving my tools in.
Mine has 9 ft ceilings down stairs, an upstairs office space. 8’ x 10’ and storage attic 16’ x 10’.
Putting a sink and commode under the stair.
This is a great size space. Sure you will love yours.

View mudflap4869's profile

mudflap4869

2129 posts in 2475 days


#19 posted 06-02-2015 04:23 AM

pdx, I will simply stand aside and wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

-- Still trying to master kindling making

View pdxrealtor's profile

pdxrealtor

104 posts in 2241 days


#20 posted 06-02-2015 04:55 AM

’pdx, if you are a realtor how could you actualy think that you structure meets any code anywhere? That structure is NOT mobile. It sits on a permenant pier base. The only way it can be moved is by hiring a house mover to add supports to secure it during transport.
The glass half full comment was totaly uncalled for, and insulting to those who trying to save you future grief. I feel that you came here merely asking for approval of your plans rather than advice on how to correct your mistakes. Therefore I will simply stand aside and await the results of your folly.’

^^ Mudflap
The structure is just as ‘movable’ as a 400 sq. ft. structure built on a 4” pad with D rings, deck blocks and 4×4’s, rail road ties, pier blocks, and so on. The fact that I went above and beyond by putting piers in the ground that won’t sink over time has absolutely zero to do with this structure being ’literally’ movable or not. Anything that can move a structure of this size built on any other ‘movable’ base can move this one too.

Further – the glass half empty comment was called for. I’m sure you know that stands for pessimism, and that’s exactly the mind set of several posters.

Because I have a problem lining up 2×12s that are warped and bowed should not be an indication I have not done my research regarding the proper way to safely put together a simple structure.

I’m glad you took the time to state your ‘feelings’. You’re wrong. The link to my blog is next to my name. Enjoy watching my folly in detail. Funny how a statement about pessimism is insulting and uncalled for but you stating you will sit back and watch my folly is not.

For the rest of the posters – try asking questions before making statements you may not have all the information for, or don’t make them at all. Pictures can be mis-leading, there is plenty of room to work in all but the shortest distance on the fence side. No one asked for details about the use of this shop, so making statements like one layer of sheathing is not wise is actually not a wise thing to state.

View pdxrealtor's profile

pdxrealtor

104 posts in 2241 days


#21 posted 06-02-2015 05:11 AM



My 16 x 24 shop is sitting on piers, not movable.
I put piers every 8 ft, so 3 across the width, 4 along the length, 12 total.
My center and my band are all PT 2×12, doubled down the center.
My floor joists are all PT 2×10s on 12” centers.
I insulated the floor with R30 fiberglass.
Floored with Advantech, PT T&G 3/4 OSB with 50 year warranty.
Built it last year, before I got laid off and out of work for 4 months.
Just now getting the inside finished and moving my tools in.
Mine has 9 ft ceilings down stairs, an upstairs office space. 8 x 10 and storage attic 16 x 10 .
Putting a sink and commode under the stair.
This is a great size space. Sure you will love yours.

- crank49


^^ Nice, and thanks!. That’s a shop! I looked into the Advantec, but it wasn’t readily available in my area. Actually Lowe’s had it, but it wasn’t full 4×8 sheets which is odd for the west coast.

I’m happy with the floor space. Right now I’m in a 11×22 and it’s just not wide enough for the things I do.

View pdxrealtor's profile

pdxrealtor

104 posts in 2241 days


#22 posted 06-02-2015 05:17 AM



pdxrealtor, everyone s concern is because of all the anomalies at the beginning of the project.

Being 1” off is likely from math errors, either you didn t subtract the actual (DB&1/2G) dims from the joists, (Double Box and 1/2 Girt) and or you didn t square one end of the joist, measure off it and subtract (DB &1/2G) from 96”. In a (paper world) it would be 4 1/2”, (real world) with fresh PT lumber could be up to 4 7/8”.
Minus the actual (DB&1/2G) dim from 96”, mark it and your dead monkeys with the cut.

Some may not be aware most framing lumber, (minus 2X4 & 6) 7 4 and 8 studding is anywhere from a 1/2” to 1” longer than the stated length. If one were to err in assuming an 8 2X8 or 10 was square and exactly 8 then measure off an arbitray end, a major error will show up when applying the subfloor, gable wall and possibly roof sheathing.

Another mistake the novice makes is butting the ply tight at the sides, CDX does expand and contract much more than AC or furniture grade ply. It tends to buckle in high heat and moisture, even T&G ply does.

- Ghidrah

Part of that inch is space between warped boards. In the first ~ three feet I’m only a half inch off. The pier mounts were dead on in all dimensions.

Funny you mention the length. That was certainly a head scratcher moment. I only noticed when I was getting longer diagonal measures. Why are they longer like that?

Thanks for the tip on the t/g. I did include the gap when laying it.

View Blackie_'s profile

Blackie_

4883 posts in 3529 days


#23 posted 06-02-2015 02:00 PM

Yes PDX I am pessimistic and skeptical but am also curious to be proven wrong please keep us updated to the final outcome.

-- Randy - If I'm not on LJ's then I'm making Saw Dust. Please feel free to visit my store location at http://www.facebook.com/randy.blackstock.custom.wood.designs

View ic3ss's profile

ic3ss

399 posts in 3793 days


#24 posted 06-02-2015 06:02 PM

So how would you plan to move it if you had to?

Wayne

-- "I am endeavoring, ma'am, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bear skins."

View pdxrealtor's profile

pdxrealtor

104 posts in 2241 days


#25 posted 06-15-2015 05:17 PM

I’m not sure how exactly you’d move it. I know I could hook up a couple chains to my truck and slide it, but that certainly wouldn’t keep it in perfect form.

I really don’t know why code states such large structures must be move-able. Given what others have said about their local code It’s almost like my local code is satisfying some liability issues by stating such a large structure must be move-able. Probably way off on that but it’s what came to mind.

Blog updated. Took me four days to put up the walls and get it painted. Went pretty smooth overall… for my first structure.

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