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View Don's profile

Don't ya hate it when....?

by Don
posted 11-08-2013 03:05 PM


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View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

16292 posts in 5268 days


#1 posted 11-08-2013 03:09 PM

I’m still trying to get past the math of 1,000 per year, 400 at a time.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#2 posted 11-08-2013 03:14 PM

1000 divided by 400=....wait

If I do 400 at a time and she wants 1000 per year then…..wait

So, if she wants 1000 per year, 400 at a time then….wait

ah, never mind :)

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View Kaleb the Swede's profile

Kaleb the Swede

1982 posts in 3019 days


#3 posted 11-08-2013 03:19 PM

If we all pull our off cuts together…...... You’re probably right

-- Just trying to build something beautiful

View McLeanVA's profile

McLeanVA

493 posts in 4484 days


#4 posted 11-08-2013 03:20 PM

That’s pretty funny math indeed.

400 boards alone sounds like a nightmare no matter how you look at it. You’d be full tilt, no sleep, parts breaking, fed up by the second month.

Good for you for turning it down. Stay small and enjoy what you do every day.

-- Measure, cut, curse, repeat.

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#5 posted 11-08-2013 03:30 PM

Yes, as tempting as it was for the $$$, I would have turned a hobby into a stressful job. No thanks, already have one of those.

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View Monte Pittman's profile

Monte Pittman

30609 posts in 3388 days


#6 posted 11-08-2013 03:30 PM

Being a greedy American Capitalist, I probably would have taken it. I would somewhat hate myself for it, but I would have taken it.

-- Nature created it, I just assemble it.

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#7 posted 11-08-2013 03:33 PM

I’m sure there’s a Canadian vs American joke there somewhere Monte but I just can’t put my finger on it :o)

Trust me, I was tempted but it would have consumed me.

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View NoLongerHere's profile

NoLongerHere

893 posts in 3726 days


#8 posted 11-08-2013 03:52 PM

My first thought when I read this was: I would have said sure if the price is right. then find someone to do it 20% cheaper and do the paperwork.

still.. what a big job! tons of returns or damaged pieces to deal with, shipping, dust galore, more space needed, different specialty tools, definitely a CNC router, approving the multiple designs, dealing with the one hundred that didn’t sell, overhead reassessed, new hires with their set of issues,

and time away from doing what your doing now – what you want to do. Nice to have offers just the same.

View 489tad's profile

489tad

3991 posts in 4061 days


#9 posted 11-08-2013 03:59 PM

How many years?

-- Dan, Naperville IL, I.G.N.

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#10 posted 11-08-2013 04:00 PM

I didn’t ask Dan…it would have been a slippery slope.

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View Blackie_'s profile

Blackie_

4883 posts in 3562 days


#11 posted 11-08-2013 04:31 PM

With all of the board makers here I bet you could have divvy it up and got it done with a nice profit for everyone :)

-- Randy - If I'm not on LJ's then I'm making Saw Dust. Please feel free to visit my store location at http://www.facebook.com/randy.blackstock.custom.wood.designs

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#12 posted 11-08-2013 04:32 PM

now you’re just making me feel bad Randy :o)

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View casual1carpenter's profile

casual1carpenter

354 posts in 3525 days


#13 posted 11-08-2013 04:54 PM

Am I having a brain fart? If hard maple is listed at 3.6 lbs bd ft. and the target board is rough 6 bd ft, that math is even better.

View DaddyZ's profile

DaddyZ

2475 posts in 4090 days


#14 posted 11-08-2013 05:04 PM

Sorry Guys it sounds like a scam request to me…

-- Pat - Worker of Wood, Collector of Tools, Father of one

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#15 posted 11-08-2013 05:06 PM

All the contact info was in the email Pat.

It’s from a high end kitchen supplier.

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View mporter's profile

mporter

253 posts in 3628 days


#16 posted 11-08-2013 05:13 PM

Heck, send them my way! That sounds right up my alley- if the money is right.

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#17 posted 11-08-2013 05:16 PM

$20/board for a referral? :o)

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View BArnold's profile

BArnold

175 posts in 2882 days


#18 posted 11-08-2013 05:41 PM

I get email similar to that occasionally and have learned to ignore them. While it might sound appealing initially, further examination will easily rule them out. You can usually put these things into the “If it sounds too good to be true…” category.

-- Bill, Thomasville, GA

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#19 posted 11-08-2013 05:43 PM

That or “if it sounds like I’ll be shackled to my bench for eternity doing the same thing over and over, I may as well keep working”

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

3408 posts in 3826 days


#20 posted 11-08-2013 06:07 PM

To do 1000 boards a year would be 4 a day, 5 days a week. The accommodate returns and the like, you would need to make 23 a week for the first year. The extra 3 a week would have to be equated into the per piece price. You would require a shop (and storage) of about 2,000 sq. ft., 4 routers, 8 bits, 12” jointer, 15” or 20” planer (both with spiral cutters), a good table saw (with 4 good blades and an extra motor), 4 gallons of glue, 6 gallons of oil, a heat gun and the lumber (20% more than the bd ft of the finished product – for the first shipment of least a 100. This would get you started.

-- David in Palm Bay, FL

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

3408 posts in 3826 days


#21 posted 11-08-2013 06:11 PM

If I had the space and equipment, I would do this in a minute – would have 2 employees working on them 30 hours a week. Labor costs as well, part of the overhead.

-- David in Palm Bay, FL

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

16292 posts in 5268 days


#22 posted 11-08-2013 07:02 PM

CasualCarpenter makes another good observation that I just thought about myself.

I did a little Googling and figuring, and a hard maple board of that size would have to weigh well over 20 lbs.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#23 posted 11-08-2013 07:06 PM

I just emailed her to see what she says about the “8 lb” thing…..stay tuned!

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#24 posted 11-08-2013 07:29 PM

Well, I don’t know where she got the weight of that size of a board from but she says “that’s the weight”

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#25 posted 11-08-2013 07:41 PM

“There is a correction to my original information. The board is 1” thick not 3”

Am I the only one who would hesitate making a board 1” thick? Cupping? Warping

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

3408 posts in 3826 days


#26 posted 11-08-2013 07:44 PM

Are these end grain boards or standard grain?

-- David in Palm Bay, FL

View mporter's profile

mporter

253 posts in 3628 days


#27 posted 11-08-2013 07:55 PM

Ok, so since you are not going to do it you have to divulge how much was the commission for? My curiosity is killing me!

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#28 posted 11-08-2013 08:58 PM

My first response to her was no way in hell, nicely put, of course. So, sorry to say, no talk of pricing…yet :)

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View Monte Pittman's profile

Monte Pittman

30609 posts in 3388 days


#29 posted 11-08-2013 10:04 PM

1” is not thick enough. At least 1-1/2”. Just asking for returns.

-- Nature created it, I just assemble it.

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#30 posted 11-08-2013 10:07 PM

my thoughts exactly Monte…I’m trying to do a deal with her….curse you and your American capitalism! ;)

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View Kryptic's profile

Kryptic

294 posts in 2710 days


#31 posted 11-08-2013 10:13 PM

Michigan Maple…..call, get a quote, re-sell and make a profit doing almost nothing

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#32 posted 11-08-2013 10:15 PM

ya lost me Kryptic…

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View Monte Pittman's profile

Monte Pittman

30609 posts in 3388 days


#33 posted 11-08-2013 11:02 PM

I’m not saying to take it, but a more definitive offer might change your mind.

My guess is that assuming that it’s a real offer, they are going to want a deal you can’t afford to give.

-- Nature created it, I just assemble it.

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#34 posted 11-08-2013 11:30 PM

Well, seeing how busy I am right now and well through Christmas, I certainly won’t be doing them on the cheap. If I do them they’re going to pay what I think they’re worth.

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View casual1carpenter's profile

casual1carpenter

354 posts in 3525 days


#35 posted 11-09-2013 12:33 AM

Don, ask her also for a visual reference. what she wants and the level of work involved might be real doable. But a real contract with scheduled payments and penalties is in order (keeps everybody happy and friendly).

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#36 posted 11-09-2013 12:48 AM

I honestly don’t think this is going to happen but we’ll see.

I’ll post back when/if I hear from her.

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View Kryptic's profile

Kryptic

294 posts in 2710 days


#37 posted 11-09-2013 01:07 AM

outsourcing

u buy cheap

and sell high

every cabinet maker thinks they can be all things to all people when in reality they cant, because their ego gets in the way of profit and thereby …. price themselves out of the market, when in reality most cabinet shops out source their doors because some people specialize in a market “neche” where one cant compete while maintaining a profit….

I could go on forever

View Kryptic's profile

Kryptic

294 posts in 2710 days


#38 posted 11-09-2013 01:34 AM

suffice to say it doesnt matter if its a drawer, dove tailed, or a butcher block, sometimes if the folks that specialize in a specific aspect of the trade, and buy tractor trailer loads of timber, even train loads of it, thusly having purchase power rendering my guess to be that we have to recognize whether we can compete and accept where we cannot. This is not to say that if one happened to fall upon a few hundred board feet of gifted wood from some long lost dead relative, where one couldn’t make a buck, selling a blocks at 400 per purchase, 1000 per year and my guess is that the purchaser doesn’t know piss from paint : )

have I lost you yet again ?

View Kryptic's profile

Kryptic

294 posts in 2710 days


#39 posted 11-09-2013 01:38 AM

FYI

you do nice work

it shouldnt be free

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 2914 days


#40 posted 11-09-2013 01:58 AM

Hell, send her my contact info. I’ve got all the time in the world.

[email protected]

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

7840 posts in 3254 days


#41 posted 11-09-2013 08:34 AM

Don’t be telling Degoose !! he could do that easy !! and have 200 spare !! I think

-- Regards Rob

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 3554 days


#42 posted 11-09-2013 09:43 AM

Dbray45, I like your idea. Hire McDonalds employees for 30 hours per week at minimum wage and you would become cutting board king AND a national hero/savior. You could also get them signed up for Obamacare…oh wait, that’s not happening yet.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#43 posted 11-09-2013 01:32 PM

Kryptic – my guess is that the person who contacted me has absolutely no idea how much work and effort goes into making a butcher block, cutting board or anything that’s crafted, for that matter. When, and if, I tell her how much I will likely charge her per board, I don’t think I will hear back from her because she is expecting to be able to get me to make them cheaply so she can sell them at a much higher dollar value. She works for a high end kitchen supply store.

She is looking for someone to mass produce Maple cutting boards on the cheap. Boos boards roll off the assemble line at $95.00 for this size board so I’m thinking she wants it cheaper than that…who knows

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

3408 posts in 3826 days


#44 posted 11-11-2013 01:24 PM

Here’s the deal – figure out the overhead – electric, tool maintenance, 1.5 people and theirs costs, the wood – less 15-20% loss, the finishes, glue – all of it. 10% return, shipping (including returns). Take this annual # and divide by $1,000 – that is your cost base – you cannot go under that amount per board or you lose money. If the purchaser wants to pay less, don’t take it because it will shut you down.

-- David in Palm Bay, FL

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

16292 posts in 5268 days


#45 posted 11-11-2013 02:22 PM

I agree 100% with the last two comments (#43 & 44).

When it comes down to price, it’s almost impossible for a small shop to compete with a factory on an item that can be mass-produced. And let’s face it… while a cutting board does require a lot of time and effort for an individual craftsman to produce, it’s not the kind of item where being made by hand is so much more desirable than being factory-produced.

In the end, I seriously doubt you could give a price that would be both profitable for you, and acceptable to the customer.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

3408 posts in 3826 days


#46 posted 11-11-2013 03:30 PM

You still have to negotiate – this way you know what the competition is really doing. Always give them the price, because you never know, they may just accept.

-- David in Palm Bay, FL

View casual1carpenter's profile

casual1carpenter

354 posts in 3525 days


#47 posted 11-11-2013 06:34 PM

As an intellectual exercise, I would ask how you would build this board. I imagine doing an approximate 6” by 15” by multiple of 24” glue up. One 24” glue up after resaw could yield five 1” thick blanks. 1000 cutting boards is but three a day if you do weekends also but it would monopolize you hobby time unless you thought like a production shop and were willing to put out for needed tooling.

So i guess I am asking if procedures and methods could be modified from the traditional one off approach to a more production approach to make this proposed cutting board venture profitable and doable in a part time one man shop??? The customer appears to be asking for only one size, one material, one shape board, just a lot of them. Who knows, you might even be able to get her to front the venture capital if you asking price is attractive enough, and get her to commit to a minimum order per year.

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#48 posted 11-12-2013 01:20 PM

Well….after the initial rush of emails from her, it’s been quiet since the 8th so I think it’s fair to say that she has disappeared.

Assuming that she has no idea what she is looking for, she came up with an idea of reselling cutting boards to customers or some retail stores. My guess would have been that edge grain boards would have been good enough for her. Hard to tell though.

In any event, there has been no response so I’ll have to rely on the other mountain of projects I have to keep me busy for a while :)

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

7185 posts in 2770 days


#49 posted 11-19-2013 05:38 PM

If she’s specifying the weight, it sounds like she’s just copying what she was sent from someone else doing the calculations that probably doesn’t know which end of a table saw to start cutting from.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View Don's profile

Don

557 posts in 4292 days


#50 posted 11-19-2013 05:41 PM

Whoever she is, she hasn’t replied to any more of my emails so this is a closed book now I think.

-- -- Don in Ottawa, http://www.donebydon.ca

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