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All Replies on DELTA WINs -- RIKON Mini Lathe Model 70-100 or the DELTA 46-460 ????

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DELTA WINs -- RIKON Mini Lathe Model 70-100 or the DELTA 46-460 ????

by HorizontalMike
posted 12-10-2012 05:21 PM


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106 replies

106 replies so far

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2202 posts in 3700 days


#1 posted 12-10-2012 05:35 PM

I’m anxious to hear the opinions on this one, Mike. I’m sure I’ll be doing something similar next year.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View crank49's profile

crank49

4032 posts in 3512 days


#2 posted 12-10-2012 06:30 PM

I don’t have that exact lathe, but the HF lathe that looks like it.
I also have the HF high speed tool set and I bought the bed extension from Penn State Industries.
The HF is identical to one of PSI lathes, but I think the Rikon, Jet, Delta machines are far superior in fit and finish.
So we were thinking along the same lines, but I just went cheapo because I fully intend to get a much bigger lathe if I like the process. Mainly because I want to do bowls on a larger machine eventually and if I do pens the little lathe is fine for those.

Additional tools you need are, a couple of chucks, adjustable one for the headstock, and a drill chuck on a #2 Morse taper to plug into the tail stock.

Also, one of the “Easy Wood” tools with the replaceable carbide insert would be really nice, but cost twice as much as my whole starter set cost.

You need a full face shield also.

You will need a sharpening station as well. I built a shop made station based on some setups I saw here on LJ. Sharpening is much easier than I expected. Not like the kind of precision you look for in chisels and plane irons.

After using mine for a while, 1/2 hp is under powered for anything bigger than pens in my opinion. I would have just gotten the HF 12×33 lathe with at least a 3/4 hp motor if I was doing this over.

The bed extension is a good idea in theory, but I’d rather have a bigger machine to start with.
I built a nice little cabinet to put mine on and planned to store things in the bottom. Wound up having to store sand bags and concrete blocks in the bottom to keep in on the floor.

View David Kirtley's profile

David Kirtley

1286 posts in 3539 days


#3 posted 12-10-2012 06:53 PM

Don’t discount turning legs in parts that connect. Think pool cue.

No on the stand. That won’t work for the extension. It will sag in the middle. You want something heavier anyway. You can rarely go wrong with a cabinet with storage for all the goodies.

Really consider variable speed rather than belt changes. Life is much better with a variable speed. Ability to go slow is more important than fast.

Don’t even think about chucks when you first start. There are a lot of other ways to hold stuff. You don’t have a large enough swing on that lathe to do really big pieces anyway like bowls and hollow forms that really makes chucks worthwhile. The 1” x 8 tpi spindle is smaller than most spindles if you get to really like turning and want to upgrade lathes.

A collet holder to hold workpieces and mandrels makes things a lot nicer.

One thing I really suggest that can add a whole lot of options is to get a tap that matches the spindle. Beall Tools sells them for example. Just drill a hole, tap it and thread the workpiece onto the spindle. You can also make your own faceplates.

The tools you show look “ok”. Another source of inexpensive turning tools is Penn Industries. I have a small size set from them and they are nice.

You also want a drill chuck on a MT#2 taper for the tailstock.

-- Woodworking shouldn't cost a fortune: http://lowbudgetwoodworker.blogspot.com/

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2099 posts in 2730 days


#4 posted 12-10-2012 07:16 PM

Good speed control is key on a lathe, especially if the initial piece is out of balance. For small stuff not such a big deal but then you’ll want to be able to spin it pretty fast, especially when sanding, because the small diameter translates to relatively slower surface speed.

For detailed work, a set of small turning tools is nice to have. Big tooling would be a waste on such a small lathe.

There are some amazing options these days for holding the workpiece, but if you are mostly doing “between centres” or “spindle” turning, you won’t need most of them. Scroll chucks, vacuum chucks, spigot chucks . . . are for so-called “faceplate” turning (making bowls and the like).

A lot of cheaper lathes come with pretty poor spur centres. A good one is worth buying.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#5 posted 12-10-2012 07:57 PM

I’m listening guys… Trying to look these things up online so I can better understand what these accessories are and do.

I will UPDATE / EDIT the OP to show a running tally above. Keep the suggestion coming! I sure appreciate the input!

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#6 posted 12-10-2012 08:09 PM

_”...After using mine for a while, 1/2 hp is under powered for anything bigger than pens in my opinion. I would have just gotten the HF 12×33 lathe with at least a 3/4 hp motor if I was doing this over….”

Hey Crank (the other Mike 8-)), At this point if I turn nothing bigger than roughly 4×4, will I be OK with 1/2hp?

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View David Kirtley's profile

David Kirtley

1286 posts in 3539 days


#7 posted 12-10-2012 08:35 PM

The spindle in the lathe headstock that the lathe comes with is not changeable. It has a thread on the outside (1”x 8 threads per inch) and a tapered hole down the middle (Morse Taper #2). The one on that lathe is the same size as mine (HF 12×33.) I don’t have a chuck for mine either and don’t feel like I am missing anything. If you get a larger lathe in the future, it will most likely have a different size thread and taper. A good chuck is a major investment and a cheap one is not worth having. Wait until you are sure you are going to live with this lathe long term before investing.

Since the spindle has a thread on the end like a bolt, you can screw things onto it. That is where you would screw on a chuck. You can also just thread a piece of wood and screw it on directly. If you want to turn a bowl for example, you can have a piece of wood that is a bit longer and just drill a small hole and thread it and bolt it directly to the spindle rather than hold the wood in a chuck. You can also mount things like sanding disks and buffing wheels on it. Yes, you can even use it to sharpen your lathe tools. If you wanted to, you can also make attachments to do other things. This is how a Shopsmith works. It is just a lathe with bolt on attachments.

You can put something small in the headstock on the drill chuck but more importantly, you can put it in the tailstock with a drill bit and drill holes in or through the workpiece. If you want to drill a round mortise or open up a piece to turn something hollow, you can just stick a drill bit there and have at it. Another way to drill through is to use a hollow center (a turning center with a hole in the middle) and pass the drill bit through the tailstock. This is how you can drill through like for passing a wire through a lamp.

The collet holder is a nice addition but down on the list. It is nice that you can grip small things (like up to 3/4 in) but more importantly, you can turn a small 3/4 tenon on something and hold it (and take it off and put it back on without it getting too off center much more easily than any other way (including a chuck)

The small tools are nice but a luxury. You can do some pretty detailed turning with normal size tools. (Please note I took the high road and didn’t expand on this with an analogy) :)

More power is nice but if you don’t have enough power, take lighter cuts. Human powered lathes put out much less power and turn some pretty big things.

-- Woodworking shouldn't cost a fortune: http://lowbudgetwoodworker.blogspot.com/

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crank49

4032 posts in 3512 days


#8 posted 12-10-2012 08:49 PM

Depends on the wood to some extent; maple is way harder to turn than fir, for instance.
And the type tools you are using; scraper, gouge, skew etc.

First piece I turned was a little minature baseball bat from a piece of maple (old table leg) I just had laying around.
It was about 2” square when I started and that was hard to do. I keep stalling the machine.
It was fully dried as well since it was recycled wood. Once I got it rounded out with a gouge and scraper and then figured out how to run the skew I was able to make the shavings fly pretty good.
Right now I have a piece of green cherry on the chuck and it’s about 4” diameter and that is all that little machine wants.

Perhaps a better quality machine would not stall as easily as the HF machine. I can’t say. This is my only reference. But, from an engineer’s perspective, the watts of this machine are typical of other 1/2 hp machines so I don’t think it would make that much difference.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#9 posted 12-10-2012 10:00 PM

David, 10-4 on the Chuck At $40 it does not break the bank, even though it may not go with a larger lathe. I really don’t see me and a bigger one anytime soon. At least two to three years out.

Crank,
Table legs, chair spindles, and hand plane knobs is more than enough to keep me busy for awhile. All of those are in that ~2in range that you mention. Sounds like I should be able to pull it off if I am careful about wood choice.

QUESTION FOR ALL: Still looking for an economical sharpening system. I do all of my hand plane blades by hand via “Scary Sharp” method. Do I really need a powered sharpening system for the turning tools? Or just a bit more sweat equity?

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View moke's profile

moke

1442 posts in 3317 days


#10 posted 12-10-2012 10:01 PM

I have both the Delta 46-460 and the Rikon 70-050. Both are on the manufacturer stands and wheels. The Delta has the bed extension and the stand extension. I have turned mostly pens, acrylic and segemnted, and using mostly the Delta and the Rikon is used some for drilling pen blanks but mostly for a three wheel Beal Buff for acrylic pens.

I do turn some bowls, pepper grinders, and occasional project in conjunction with flatwork….ie: spindles.
I have found there is a substantial difference in a 1 hp (Delta) and 1/2 hp (Rikon), the chief difference is it is easy to stall the 1/2 hp. Keep in mind my Rikon I bought as a second lathe for 199.00 with free shipping from Woodcraft. It is the Economy version….no variable speed at all and 6 (I think) speed changes with the belt.
This is what I have noticed as differences…..the Rikon head and tali stock is not co-planar. I have shimmed, and filed some on the tailstock and it is now co-planar but requires constant manipulation of the shims as I move the tailstock. The belts are harder to change, not so much for me as I have to move it to different position in order to utilize it and it is very accessable to the rear of the machine. If you were to put it against the wall it would be harder by a fair amount. The 70-100 may not have this issue, but it would cetainly bear some investigation. As mentioned above the stand is a good addition, and well made, but will add no storage, as a shop built cabinet would.

I am certainly not advocating the Delta….it is a great machine but I have some misgivings on what is going on with Delta right now. But I will say, there is a substantial difference in the two machines, one only needs to turn one on and listen to it to tell. The Rikon is louder, “rougher”, the location of the controls on the Delta are just better designed, but the Rikon is certainly very useable and for it’s price is far superior to many mini and midis out there.

As far as tools and sharpening goes, start with a kit, find out which tools you like the best and buy Sorby or Benjamin’s Best tools as you go. One key suggestion I would have is investigate how to make your own tools that have inserts. You seem more than able to research and make most anything you want, maybe work your way into make some carbide insert tools. They are awesome, but they are pricey.
Sharpening has it’s own learning curve, with many toys to buy and who knows what is the best. I have been turning 10+ years and have many different systems and I am just as confused as to which one is better as I was when I started. Replacable insert tools eliminate your need to have sharpening system, so may be cheaper in the long run.

I have a collet chuck and while it is very useful in pen turning I am not sure how useful it would be to turn spindles. There are now very affordable jaw chucks, even some under 100.00. Woodcraft has some great buys.

The one thing you will experience with a lathe is it is very different from any flatwork you have done. It is addictive, and expensive as you buy more attachments and toys!! I have to say, I have had a lot of fun making things I thought I would never make!!

-- Mike

View David Kirtley's profile

David Kirtley

1286 posts in 3539 days


#11 posted 12-10-2012 10:13 PM

I use a belt sander for my sharpening.

That kind of chuck is nice. Only bad thing is that the chuck is longer than a keyed chuck which can be a little problematic on a short bed lathe. Not a deal breaker either way. When I was cautioning about buying chucks, I was talking about this kind of chuck: http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2005199/4174/teknatool-supernova2-chuck.aspx They get really expensive when you start getting jaws and such.

Tap handle for tap would be useful. http://www.bealltool.com/products/threading/wrench.php

Also, take a look at Beall’s website for other stuff he has. Everything that I have bought from him is high quality.

These are the small tools I have: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCMINI2.html

They also have some HSS tools a lot cheaper than the ones at Woodcraft: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCHSS8.html

This is their collet holder: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCDOWEL.html

-- Woodworking shouldn't cost a fortune: http://lowbudgetwoodworker.blogspot.com/

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#12 posted 12-10-2012 10:24 PM

Moke,
Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the collet holders being too small for my needs/goals. At least for now, they are on the back burner. Those carbide insert turning tools look pretty neat. Much like my carbide inserts on my Grizzly Jointer.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#13 posted 12-10-2012 11:46 PM

David,
Nice stuff on Beal Tool. I do have a tap handle for a set that I currently own, but will be aware of any future needs. I have often thought of a better handle as you depict, but have gotten away with my little Crapsman set for a number of years… ;-) I DO appreciate the forethought in hitting ALL possibilities. Many miss that.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

3105 posts in 2828 days


#14 posted 12-11-2012 12:15 AM

Couple of things Mike as a new lathe owner myself. I found that everything under the Delta 46-460 is basically the same lathe. This Rikon has better capacity, but it’s underpowered and doesn’t reverse.

Listen man, take my word for it; you want variable speed control and reversing motor. If you don’t buy it now, in two months you’ll have that Rikon on the market and you’ll be getting the delta.

Also figure in about 100$ for a chuck and about 85$ for chisels.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

5695 posts in 4204 days


#15 posted 12-11-2012 12:52 AM

Mike … I went through a similar process two years ago. I finally decided to ante up the extra money for a Delta 46-460 with an extension bed. I have never looked back.

I have not used the Rikon, but have used similar lathes at seminars and trade shows and there is no comparison … the Delta is, hands down, a superior machine. IMHO, a machine with a 1/2hp motor just isn’t going to develop enough torque to handle bigger spindles or bowls.

The reversing/electronic variable speed system is a real life-saver for sanding and finishing. I bought then PSI Utility chuck, and have a Woodcraft grinder with a Wolverine rig for sharpening.

I have turned bowls up to 12”, 10” platters, pens, ornaments, and a baseball bat and have never felt that the job was too big for the Delta.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Monte Pittman's profile

Monte Pittman

30461 posts in 2879 days


#16 posted 12-11-2012 01:10 AM

Glad you posted this. I am also considering taking the plunge with a small lathe. 6 months ago I didn’t think I would ever say that.

-- Nature created it, I just assemble it.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#17 posted 12-11-2012 01:13 AM

I appreciate the feedback Russell, Jerry. I have always been there, arguing for bigger and better so I truly understand. I do not like being on the bottom end of the food chain when it comes to new toys, however, it appears that that is where I have found myself.

I need to hear the truth, so keep it coming. I do appreciate it…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#18 posted 12-11-2012 01:14 AM

Welcome back Monte, you have been playing with your icons/avatar lately… huh?

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View David Craig's profile

David Craig

2137 posts in 3650 days


#19 posted 12-11-2012 01:41 AM

The Rikon has excellent reviews and would have been my choice for a mini-lathe. Bowls and hollow vessels are not impossible on this and I watched a wood review where they tried to stall the motor by taking a big cut in Cherry, much larger than they should have, and it didn’t stall. Don’t under-estimate the ability to turn anything that falls between the center points. So definitely look into a chuck. All add ons should be transferable if you ever decide to get a bigger lathe.

If you go with the worksharp, I would recommend the 3000, instead of the 2000. The 2000 only has one angle in which to grind when using the chisel holder and the flexibility is not there. I freehand the chisels on the top. I am not a sharpening guru, but a friend I used to turn with (jockmike2) would give me some chisels to sharpen for him from time to time. This surprised me because Mike had a good grinder and was way more experienced in it than I was. If that tells you anything. Stumpy has a video on making a table for the ws3000 to expand the usefulness to plane blades as well. This would allow you to “scary sharp” your plane irons, chisels, and turning chisels rather quickly. Much more versatility for the money.

With tools, I would suggest checking out Benjamin’s Best at PSI. Rather solid chisels, not on the expensive side, and fairly well reviewed. I would recommend not getting an extensive set, as you just want what you use and I would look at Sorby as interest in different turnings come up and you want to add on with individual chisels.

Hope this helps,

David

-- There is little that is simple when it comes to making a simple box.

View grub32's profile

grub32

215 posts in 3589 days


#20 posted 12-11-2012 02:03 AM

I have this lathe and make a lot of similar things that you want to make. This little sucker is super heavy. If you plan on moving it after mounting it on a stand, it will need wheels. It is 100 hundred pounds with the bed extender.

Not trying to dissuade you, this thing rocks. I have used both the delta and this one. Very similar in quality.

If you don’t buy the VS delta, the rikon is easier to change belt positions to change speed…it’s quite fast.

As for tools…I have many makes of tools…the Benjamin’s best from penn state are a great starting tool. I have several crown and pinnacle from woodcraft that I like. The sorby tools that I have are great, really hold their edge but many of their tools are the price of this lathe used.

I have the wolverine grinding jig. It is good…a bit of a learning curve with the fingernail grind.

Best of luck,

Grub

-- Educator by Day, Wood Butcher by Night!!

View JollyGreen67's profile

JollyGreen67

1676 posts in 3304 days


#21 posted 12-11-2012 02:08 AM

Mike: I had a Rikon 70-100, nice lathe but, wished I had gotten the veriable speed Delta – bigger horses. The local turners club here is replacing their Jet’s with the Delta’s. I would suggest a chuck with removable insert, so it can be used on a biger lathe in the future, and true, they are expensive but, you will have them on hand for a larger lathe. The PSI set is a great starter kit – remember – High Speed Steel is High Speed Steel is High Speed Steel, no matter who sells it.

-- When I was a kid I wanted to be older . . . . . this CRAP is not what I expected ! RIP 09/08/2018

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moke

1442 posts in 3317 days


#22 posted 12-11-2012 03:59 AM

Mike,
As you mentioned, I think the inserts are exactly the same inserts as on your jointer…While there are several different configurations, 2” and 4” radius, round and triangular. I have never made one myself but literally I have seen guys make them tools out of HF pry bar tools. I am sure you can do it….one fella I talked to made it with just a grinder and files. I bought a couple tools from a guy on a Pen site, but he has just had a fairly serious heart attack and I would assume is out of business for a while. He makes several tools called “woodchucks”. They are great. I use both the 4” radius and the round for bowls. If you decide to try to make a tool PM me and I will have more info for you.

I bought a Steelex set to start with. I think it was around a 100.00. I still use some of the tools. My friend, started with the HF kit. He too has moved on but still uses it some and made some nice stuff with them. A lot of great turners use skews a lot, particularly for table legs and such. A decent skew is going to be around a hundred dollarson it’s own. The steelex or HF kit will serve as a good learner for sharpening too. I wouldn’t go hog wild just yet. Your family will have x-mas presents for a long time to come.

I bought some DVD’s and learned what I could from them, since I have met some really good turners. Practice is what it takes. I am by no means good, but I am learning, start out with maple and make nothing in particular except wood chips….and have fun!!! I look forward to seeing some results….
Moke

-- Mike

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waho6o9

8786 posts in 3118 days


#23 posted 12-11-2012 04:12 AM

http://eddiecastelin.com/products_and_services

Carbide cutters at a reasonable cost.

Good thread Mike, thanks, I’m learning on a HF 14-40 lathe and
I’m enjoying this thread as well.

View MNgary's profile

MNgary

313 posts in 2958 days


#24 posted 12-11-2012 04:22 AM

Don’t overlook the Jet 1236 with a 3/4 hp motor. They are around $800 on sale. I’ve turned 8 inch diameter vases (walnut) and 10 inch diameter bowls (vaious woods) on mine.

-- I dream of a world where a duck can cross the road and no one asks why.

View crank49's profile

crank49

4032 posts in 3512 days


#25 posted 12-11-2012 05:34 AM

That Jet 1236 with the 3/4 hp motor is the one the HF 1236 is a copy of. That’s the one I wish I had started on, instead of the little 10-18.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#26 posted 12-11-2012 02:40 PM

David C. —10-4 on the WS3000 instead of 2000. I have held back on buying ANY power sharpening and have sharpened my chisels and planes by hand. Not that hard once you have them initially sharpened. I’ve thought about a slow speed grinder, but they are much more $$$.

Grub—I have a large Rubbermaid cart that I move my horizontal mortiser around on, that would be perfect for the 70-100. This old man’s back learned that treat quickly! ;-) With regards to the Wolverine grinder, do you use any of the “additional” accessories with this grinder, or is the basic grinder complete enough for most sharpening in your opinion?

Jim—Got any links to ”...a chuck with removable insert…”? Just in case I do outgrow something like the 70-100.

Moke—I do like the idea of making carbide inserts and own tools, but should probably stick to the basics at first. ”...The steelex or HF kit will serve as a good learner for sharpening too….” Absolutely should remember this one! No sense screwing up the good ones while “learning”!

3/4hp —Jet 1236 ($899.99)... hmm… OR the HF 1236 copy ( Sale: $269.99 )...
Somehow I knew this was going to happen… ;-)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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PurpLev

8552 posts in 4190 days


#27 posted 12-11-2012 02:47 PM

I’d forgo the “mini tool set” – I have a mini tool set and it doesn’t give you the control and firm grip a larger tool set does.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

3105 posts in 2828 days


#28 posted 12-11-2012 02:49 PM

What PurpLev said. HSS is a good brand, so you have to sharpen them more often, at least they’re easy to sharpen. I love my set. Cost is about 100$.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

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waho6o9

8786 posts in 3118 days


#29 posted 12-11-2012 02:50 PM

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCVERSA3.html

Versa chisel on sale, woo hoo.

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

3105 posts in 2828 days


#30 posted 12-11-2012 02:53 PM

Waho6o9, I just ordered the two Versa set last night. 30$

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#31 posted 12-11-2012 02:57 PM

”...I’d forgo the “mini tool set” – I have a mini tool set and it doesn’t give you the control and firm grip a larger tool set does….”

I was thinking about that aspect and kept going back and forth on suggestions/choices. Thanks for stating the reason so clearly.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View RVroman's profile

RVroman

163 posts in 2565 days


#32 posted 12-11-2012 02:58 PM

Hi Mike,

This lathe has some great features with the indexing, head and tailstock taper, spindle size, etc. The speed range is good as well. The one thing that would concern me about it is the motor size. While 1/2 hp will probably serve you well for a while, it would probably not be too long before it is not enough. Personally I would not consider any machine with less than 3/4 hp.

-- Robert --- making toothpicks one 3x3x12 blank at a time!

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waho6o9

8786 posts in 3118 days


#33 posted 12-11-2012 02:59 PM

Thanks for the friendly tip on the Versa Chisel Russell.
I’m eyeing a set as well.
The 3 chisel set looks like a winner.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#34 posted 12-11-2012 04:20 PM

Robert,
Yeah, the 1/2hp issue does seem to keep coming up. Something to consider though. What I am hoping to accomplish with this thread is to get a good handle on what it will/would take in real $$$$ to get into turning.

So far, with the Rikon 70-100, it looks like the initial outlay of funds will be around $800 or so. And that appears to be with just the most basic tools and accessories. This is all good stuff to know!

Keep checking the bottom section of the OP to see an ongoing tally of items and cost. 8-)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View RVroman's profile

RVroman

163 posts in 2565 days


#35 posted 12-11-2012 04:28 PM

LOL, you are absolutely correct. The cost of accessories will far outweigh the cost of the lathe, no matter what lathe you buy. :-) You can accessorize yourself to death if you are not careful, and may end up not using a lot of those things.

I think you are taking a great approach in first determining what you want turn. Then purchasing a lathe (with room for growth) and accessories for that purpose. You can add other accessories when/if needed. I have a few things I “just knew” I would need, or was convinced I would need, and I have never used them. (i.e. bowl scraper, internal shear scraper, gimmick center finders, etc)

-- Robert --- making toothpicks one 3x3x12 blank at a time!

View ChrisK's profile

ChrisK

2039 posts in 3623 days


#36 posted 12-11-2012 04:29 PM

http://www.ptreeusa.com/edirect_121112.htm

Check these out for carbide cutters.

-- Chris K

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waho6o9

8786 posts in 3118 days


#37 posted 12-11-2012 04:38 PM

View RVroman's profile

RVroman

163 posts in 2565 days


#38 posted 12-11-2012 05:02 PM

^^^ – Ok, now that’s cool!!

-- Robert --- making toothpicks one 3x3x12 blank at a time!

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

3105 posts in 2828 days


#39 posted 12-11-2012 07:19 PM

Mike, for chisels I’d stay with steel over carbide. The advantages are that they sharpen easier even though they need to be sharpened often, all chisels need to be sharpened often though, carbide is just harder on your gear. The only carbide I’d use is for interior of a vase or something that has a limited access hole. Then you need a small tip on an elaborate neck and carbide works well.
HSS uses M2 steel which has a Molybdenum base for high speed, which means it won’t break down under heat by friction as much as A2 steel will.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

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HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#40 posted 12-11-2012 07:51 PM

Yeah Russell, I think HSS is the best plan for me to start out with.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3455 days


#41 posted 12-12-2012 02:49 AM

So I guess the bottom line is that I (you) need to buy a/the Rikon, Jet, etc instead of the examples LIKE the HF knockoff models, because of a history of poor steel and the easy stripping of bolt holes and such. And that much of these issues affects accuracy in in the long run.

IMO, I think this thread has served me, and others, is establishing what it takes as a MINIMUM, to get into turning. Things could be a bit more and things could be a bit less, however, IMO this looks like a fair estimate of what it takes to BEGIN ones journey into “turning” as we know it. Thanks for all those who took part an who offered their input.
Michael

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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JollyGreen67

1676 posts in 3304 days


#42 posted 12-12-2012 03:25 AM

Mike: www.woodturnerscatalog.com has chucks that are available with different size inserts – plus – they are reversable, as in able to be run in reverse without spinning off the lathe. www.pennstateind.com, (PSI), has their own inexpensive brand (Barracuda) of chucks. From what I can read in their cat, don’t know if they are reversable. Also, do not know how good of a chuck they are, as I haven’t seen any reviews. Maybe some LJs know. They are all dedicated 1×8tpi but, PSI has adapters to fit larger drives. They also have good inexpensive HSS lathe tools. High speed steel is high speed steel is high speed steel.

-- When I was a kid I wanted to be older . . . . . this CRAP is not what I expected ! RIP 09/08/2018

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TheDane

5695 posts in 4204 days


#43 posted 12-12-2012 03:36 AM

rosebudjim—I have the PSI Utility chuck … no complaints. It is a tommy-bar operated chuck (no key/wrench), and I never run it in reverse unless I have the tailstock up to support the workpiece.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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JollyGreen67

1676 posts in 3304 days


#44 posted 12-12-2012 04:05 AM

Gerry – I have two Nova 1×8 mini-chucks with 1-1/4×8 inserts, operated with the tommy bars. They will spin off in reverse, so I am trying to figure out how to tap threads for grub screws to prevent spin-off. Maybe tap the insert and use blue Lok-tite on the chuck to the insert. Any ideas? Also have two 1-1/4×8 SuperNova2 chucks that came with the anti-spin-off grub screw in the insert.

-- When I was a kid I wanted to be older . . . . . this CRAP is not what I expected ! RIP 09/08/2018

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RVroman

163 posts in 2565 days


#45 posted 12-12-2012 11:49 AM

Rosebudjim, I am not familiar with the mini chuck as I only have the G3 and Super Nova2, but if they use the same inserts as those two you can get 1-1/4×8 TPI inserts with the set screw to keep it from loosening in reverse.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage2.aspx?id=2005199&ProdId=2288&>

-- Robert --- making toothpicks one 3x3x12 blank at a time!

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lumberjoe

2899 posts in 2789 days


#46 posted 12-12-2012 02:18 PM

I went through this not too long ago and a lot of your questions were covered already. After literally months of research, this is what I decided on:

Unless you get a variable speed lathe, get the HF mini lathe
It’s as good as a belt change mini lathe gets. I got mine for a little under 150 with coupons. I mostly turn pens and bottle stoppers, but have chucked up some pretty large pieces of black locust for a mallet and wasn’t wishing for more power. The swing on the Rikon is larger, but at 1/2hp, you are pushing it with the 10” swing on the HF lathe as it is.

Chucks – hands down the best bang for the buck is the Barracuda2 from PSI

Turning tools. The woodriver set is ok, but not 110$ better than this set (the ones you posted are NOT HSS). These are really good tools! You can also practice sharpening and changing grinds (I like an elsworth grind) without worrying too much about ruining tools. I do not like the “mini lathe” tools. For me anyway, a full size tool is much easier to control – especially when (not if) you get a catch.

These turning tools are not the absolute greatest, but as I mentioned they are every bit as good as the woodriver. Once you figure out what tools you really use a lot, you can replace them one at a time with higher quality ones made with exotic metals that hold edges much longer, or go the carbide insert tool route.

Also get a live center set. These are really handy to have. The nova is on sale right now. I have this and really like it.

Again, I have done TONS of research before I made any purchases. I have also spent many many hours at my lathe. There isn’t anything I wish I had done differently. If I were ever to upgrade my lathe, it would be the Delta midi lathe purely because changing speeds with belts can be tedious. I have found the sweet spot for both turning and sanding so I don’t change speeds that often.

-- https://pinepointwoodworks.wordpress.com/

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lumberjoe

2899 posts in 2789 days


#47 posted 12-12-2012 02:24 PM

Mike, one addition. With the worksharp (if you go that route) you will still need a jig holder and either to Tormek or the Jet gouge sharpening jig at an expense of another ~150$ for both. You are a handy guy. Get a slow speed grinder and a wolverine style jig (woodcraft has a package with both), or make you own jig. Mine took me all of 20 minutes to make and it works perfectly.

-- https://pinepointwoodworks.wordpress.com/

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hairy

3004 posts in 4073 days


#48 posted 12-12-2012 03:05 PM

I get slammed when I say this, but here goes.

I wish that I had started with carbide tools, such as EasyWoodTools, when I started.
I’m using them as an example, you can save money elsewhere, but their quality is excellent.
They all use the same tool presentation. Cutting edge at center height, tool flat on the rest. Each tool in a set of gouges, skews, scrapers et al is used differently. Bigger learning curve.

A few carbide tools is cheaper than some sets of turning tools. Sharpening tools have their own got to have accessories.

After you have some success, you will want gouges and skews and the rest, but you will know what you want, why you want it, and how it will help you. You will also probably save some $ by buying smarter.

The old timers learned how to with what they had. Times change.

-- Genghis Khan and his brother Don, couldn't keep on keeping on...

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TheDane

5695 posts in 4204 days


#49 posted 12-12-2012 03:18 PM

There is an article in the current (December 2012, Vol 27, No 6) edition of the American Woodturner (AAW publication) that details converting a Harbor Freight belt sander into a sharpening system.

The HF sander ( Combination 4” x 36” Belt/6” Disc Sander – Central Machinery – item #97181) is on sale at HF for $80. The author of the article says it can be done for less than $100.

I have not done the conversion, but it looks pretty straightforward. A guy in my local club (who is a production turner) doesn’t even own a grinder … he has been sharpening with belt sanders for many years … and says this is the way to go.

Just food for thought.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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Danpaddles

576 posts in 2853 days


#50 posted 12-12-2012 03:49 PM

Lots of good info on this thread. I can only add a couple of snippets.

If you do not want to turn bowls or platters, you can probably skip the tap for a while.

Skip the HF turning tools, go for the bigger Benjamin set instead.

You will need to sharpen, but the Work Sharp might be overkill. (Unless you want it for other stuff-). As mentioned, a belt sander works (keep it clean!). Or look for a cheap bench grinder on CL. Lathe tools do not ‘burn’ as easy as knife blades, due to steeper angles and beefier profiles. And HSS is, I think, not as sensitive to temperatures either.

On the stand- build your own. I ended up doing so much to my Ironbed stand, I might as well have just built one. And think a lot about how high you want it, I really like having my lathe 6 inches higher than originally intended.

I’d skip the collets until you have a need. But keep a few bucks aside for extra/ better spur drive and live center.

Then, get ready to start making handles for your files! Great practice.

-- Dan V. in Indy

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