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DIY Solid Oak Floors

by JarodMorris
posted 09-13-2012 08:51 PM


44 replies so far

View Doss's profile

Doss

779 posts in 3344 days


#1 posted 09-13-2012 09:13 PM

Wow. It sounds like you need over 1000 bd ft of flooring (do you mean linear feet or board feet?). I would not like the pleasure of putting a tongue and groove on that (that’s over 2000 ft of T&G if you leave the boards how they are). I also would not enjoy sizing the boards to the same width (if that’s what you plan on doing). It would also not be fun to get them to the same thickness.

What are the dimensions of the wood (board feet is only slightly descriptive as it’s calculated off of 3 measurements L x W x H)?

It’s possible to turn it into flooring of course. It’s just whether it’s worth your time and effort to do so.

Remember, the $500-600 in materials does not include the time it’s going to take you to get it ready to install as flooring.

As far as expansion, it’d be just like any other solid wood floor. You probably need to learn more about installing flooring if you’re wondering what to do. It can go wrong very easily and if you’re sizing and milling the wood yourself, I can only see that compounding the things that can go wrong. On a concrete subfloor, I’d think an engineered product would be a better choice, but that’s just me and I’m not a flooring expert.

I’m not trying to knock your handyman/woodworking skills. I’m just saying it’s a lot of work for very little savings in the end.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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JarodMorris

167 posts in 3455 days


#2 posted 09-13-2012 09:27 PM

The wood is already the same thickness, though even slight differences would be enough to cause issues.

I’m not as worried about the amount of work and time it would take as I am getting in the middle of it and not being able to finish. I realize that an engineered product would not be too much more expensive, I could probably get okay flooring for $1 to $2 per foot. Though when comparing read hardwood to the cost of real hardwood, it’s a huge savings. So I guess it’s a matter of do I want to compare it to just getting new flooring or getting new real hardwood flooring.

Is real hardwood flooring glued together, nailed together, screwed together? Know of any articles/videos on the subject? I’ve done some youtube searching and found interesting things, but most seem to be commercials for whatever company put the video together. That’s not exactly what I’m looking for.

Jarod

-- Dad: Someone was supposed to pick up his toys! Son: My name isn't "Someone".

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Rex B

320 posts in 3330 days


#3 posted 09-13-2012 09:31 PM

There are a couple of articles about DIY flooring here. That’s about all I can contribute on the subject.

-- Rex

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Bill White

5350 posts in 5040 days


#4 posted 09-13-2012 09:44 PM

Does your time have no value? With the newer alum. oxide finishes on flooring, ain’t no way I’m spending the time required to fab my own flooring.
I’d rather have a nap. :)
Bill

-- [email protected]

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crank49

4032 posts in 4050 days


#5 posted 09-13-2012 09:47 PM

How long are the pieces you are talking about?

You said offcuts. That brings to mind a bunch of short stuff, like less than 3 ft.
That would be a nightmare to deal with if that’s the case.

Also, you would need a shaper to mill a house worth of flooring. That would be too much work for all but the biggest badazz router to handle.

There is also the profile required on the back.
Then when it’s installed you still have to sand it and finish it.

I don’t think it is feasable to finish all four sides and prefinish with anything less than industrial type equipment.

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JarodMorris

167 posts in 3455 days


#6 posted 09-13-2012 09:47 PM

Bill,

My time does have value. That’s what I sell on a daily basis to make money; however, my money has value too and there just isn’t as much money to be able to spend $3,000+ on a quality engineered product. Plus, there’s the “I did/made it myself” that is valuable to me too.

jarod

-- Dad: Someone was supposed to pick up his toys! Son: My name isn't "Someone".

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JarodMorris

167 posts in 3455 days


#7 posted 09-13-2012 09:50 PM

Michael,

What profile are you talking about? I’ve seen people use real wood for flooring, such as pine and those pieces were straight from the lumber yard, though acclimated to the environment where they were going to be installed. I’m not sure I understand what you’re meaning when you talk about the profile required on the back.

Jarod

-- Dad: Someone was supposed to pick up his toys! Son: My name isn't "Someone".

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jerkylips

495 posts in 3650 days


#8 posted 09-13-2012 09:59 PM

to compare apples to apples, you can get unfinished 3/4” solid hardwood for around $3/sq ft (usually). If depending on whether your price is per linear ft or board ft, you may not be saving as much as you think.

When you’re talking about engineered flooring, that’s going to be finished, so you’d have to figure out costs to finish your floor (you’ll need to sand it, so sander rental, pads, etc.) plus the finishes. if you stain then seal it’s going to be more. This is before you even get into the cost of your time.

Last, if these are cutoffs, how long are they? A bunch of short segments of flooring is not going to look good across a larger span. I can’t really think of any way that this makes sense to me.

We bought some flooring from lumber liquidators a couple years ago, so I get emails & catalogs from them all the time. They always have some sort of special purchase item that you can get really reasonable – like solid prefinished hardwood for $3/sq ft, etc.

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waho6o9

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#9 posted 09-13-2012 10:01 PM

There’s a couple of groves on the bottom of solid oak flooring plus
the perimeter detail.

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JarodMorris

167 posts in 3455 days


#10 posted 09-13-2012 10:12 PM

jerkylips,

It is $0.50 per board ft, NOT linear ft. I’m not sure if I’d like the short segments either. I’m just throwing an idea out there to see if I can come up with enough reasons NOT to do it before even worrying about other stuff with the project.

I’ve looked at the lumber liquidators. We have one near where I live and I was not that impressed. I’m sure their stuff is just fine but I’ve seen engineered flooring with padding on the pieces for prices better than at LL. The price of the stuff I’m thinking of was about $2.50 / bd ft. I helped my friend install that flooring and that store accepted returns for full value. LL charges a 20% restocking fee on whatever you want to try to return. I’m guessing that is normal for the industry, but I don’t like it. (Though I won’t hold my breath for it to change.)

The more I think about it, the less likely I am to do this. The sanding, finishing, staining, etc. I have 4 kids so I definitely don’t want to expose them to those fumes but it’s not like they can move out for a week or 2 while I finish the flooring up. A pre-finish is a good idea but impractical to actually do it. I may go ahead and get 100 bd ft of it and glue up pieces for doors or such in my shop. It’s beautiful wood and I want to use it on something but flooring just isn’t worth the time and hassle. Plus, even if I did get it down, the care that has to be done to real hardwood floors every few years makes it a hassle. And frankly, this house just isn’t worth all of that hassle. We have 5 houses for sale within a few blocks of our house (a foreclosure next door that’s been for sale 14+ months) and I am worried that when we go to sell the house in a year or 2 that the value will be down to where our equity is gone, new flooring or not.

Thank you to all that responded. It’s great to learn new stuff.

jarod

-- Dad: Someone was supposed to pick up his toys! Son: My name isn't "Someone".

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Jorge G.

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#11 posted 09-13-2012 10:18 PM

Yes, you can and you should. Currently I am in the process of laying down solid wood floor for a customer, they could not afford hard wood so I am doing pine. (yeah I agree that prefabricated crap does not even come close to real wood floors). I purchased the flooring bits from Toolstoday, they work great, the thickness of my floor is 5/8” so I bought the bits for up to 3/4” floor. If you have a router table and someone to help you pass you the cuts, it does not take that long, I made about 1000 sqf in a day and a half. I am betting that with oak you will need to re sharpen the blades after a 1000sqf or so, with pine I have made 2000 sqf and they are still good.

I would advise you to first make all the wood to the same thickness or you will have a heck of a time fitting the slats when you lay them down. If you make all the wood to the same thickness you will always have the T&G at the same position in the middle of the slat. I did nto bother to make T&G on the ends, just butt joints. No glue, I tie down the floor with screws and platic dowels every 4 or 5th row with staples in the in between rows. Buy a good concrete bit, I use a 1/4” bit with 2” screws, drill a hole through the wood into the concrete, place the screw on the plastic dowel and hammer it through the hole until you hear a difference in pitch, that means the dowel has reached the bottom of the hole, then screw to tighten. Obviously you will have to make plugs to finish the floor.

Expansion is not a big deal, but make sure you put a barrier between the concrete and the wood. I used that sort of white bubble plastic they use for laying down rugs, it gives the floor some cushion and it works great as a barrier. PM if you have any questions.

As for the naysayers, I will put my solid wood floors against your engineered floor any time, 9 times out of 10, customers will choose solid wood floors when put side by side.

PS, I forgot to explain expansion. This is not a big deal with the barrier, my experience has been that when you have an enclosed space the humidity of the floor with barrier is pretty constant. For safety I left a half inch separation from the walls, but I have yet to see a change in the floor.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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Tennessee

2936 posts in 3594 days


#12 posted 09-13-2012 10:25 PM

I once got a pallet of solid oak “offcuts”. It was all 20-26 inches. Makes great jewelry boxes, lousy flooring. With that kind of length, I think I would pass. And, to be honest, a lot of it was number two, which means it may or may not be feasible to use. They cut off these ends for a reason.
My inclination would be to pass.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

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Doss

779 posts in 3344 days


#13 posted 09-13-2012 10:26 PM

Expansion is not a big deal

Says who? I have seen floors buckle down here in less than a year where it essentially ejected one board’s width of flooring.

Like waho6o9 showed, I forgot about the detail under each board.

Again, do not discount what your time is worth. A lot of people say, I have all the time in the world so I’m in no rush. There are also a lot of people with projects that never get finished. I’m thinking they are the same people.

JGM0658, engineered flooring does have its uses where solid hardwood is not recommended. It’s not just for saving money. I also have to say I have seen many engineered wood floors that look way better than solid wood. After all, some engineered floors have solid hardwood on top for the first 1/16-1/4”... there is no reason why it would look any different besides the finish and even that can be the same.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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JarodMorris

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#14 posted 09-13-2012 10:30 PM

These ends are cut off because the truck beds are only so long and the rest is not needed. Of course if one end is better than the other, the worst end is chosen for the cutoff, but i’ve used this wood already to make a vanity in my bathroom and it’s great quality wood.

Jarod

-- Dad: Someone was supposed to pick up his toys! Son: My name isn't "Someone".

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Jorge G.

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#15 posted 09-13-2012 10:31 PM

you’ll need to put down a wood subfloor on top to give you something to fasten it to

No, you fasten directly into the concrete.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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Doss

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#16 posted 09-13-2012 10:39 PM

you’ll need to put down a wood subfloor on top to give you something to fasten it to – Doss

No, you fasten directly into the concrete. – JGM0658

Hey, sorry I removed my post after you had quoted it.

Umm… fasten tongue and groove flooring directly to the concrete? Are you sure you’re supposed to do that? I was told to put down ply or wood product subfloor when fastening tongue and groove. If you’re floating the floor, that’s a different story.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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Jorge G.

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#17 posted 09-13-2012 10:44 PM

Sure, here in Mexico houses are made of brick and concrete floors and I have done thousands of sqf this way. Like I said before, you have to place a vapor barrier between the concrete and the wood, once you do that, you do not have any problems. Concrete “sweats” so if you do not place the vapor barrier you will have wood movement.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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Scsmith42

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#18 posted 09-13-2012 11:14 PM

Jarod, what I would suggest you consider is manufacturing your own parquet flooring from the offcuts. A traditional wood slat floor made from short pieces would probably not look very good. Parquet – on the other hand – could look great if designed and maunfactured correctly.

Here is an example of large tiles – as I recall one of these is patterned after the flooring in the Palace at Versailles.

http://www.antiqueparquet.com/Parquet%20Panel%20Page.html

Here are some other great patterns:

http://www.antiqueparquet.com/Borderless%20Parquet%20Page.html

And check out this 7’ square panel! http://www.antiqueparquet.com/Grand%20Parquet%20Page.html

If you could use your cutoffs for the interior pieces, all that you would need to purchase are longer boards for the perimeter.

Typically parquet is glued directly down to a subfloor using a high quality adhesive. The panels that I’ve worked with are all pretty thin – around 1/4” thick, and were made of pieces with straight cut edges.

-- Scott, North Carolina, www.quartersawnoak.com

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JarodMorris

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#19 posted 09-13-2012 11:17 PM

Scott,

That’s brilliant!! Any links or search term suggestions for more information of manufacturing my own parquet flooring? If I wasn’t such an OKC Thunder fan, I would probably try to convince my wife to let me put a Boston Celtic’s logo in our bedroom.

jarod

-- Dad: Someone was supposed to pick up his toys! Son: My name isn't "Someone".

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Doss

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#20 posted 09-14-2012 03:39 AM

Or you could make a chevron pattern, herringbone, or others. That’s a lot of work though and I know I would never have the time, but you’ve said you do so go for it.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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BentheViking

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#21 posted 09-14-2012 04:10 AM

I work for lumber liquidators and we never ever recommend putting hardwood directly over concrete even if you use a adhesive with a vapor barrier built into it (which cost about $1 sq ft). We don’t really recommend the plywood subfloor over the concrete, but understand that some people go that router. Truth is that is how our store front is done, we just can’t guarantee any long term results.

-- It's made of wood. Real sturdy.--Chubbs Peterson

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JarodMorris

167 posts in 3455 days


#22 posted 09-14-2012 02:46 PM

Alright, these parquet patterns have me thinking that I should do this. Let me clarify, it’s not like I have all the time in the world, but I do have patience. I have no problem spending the next year or 18 months prepping the wood. That’s our time frame to remodel the kitchen anyway and we have tile in the kitchen / dining room that we are definitely not keeping. It has gone way longer than it’s life expectancy I’m sure. If I take one of my kids’ rubber bouncy balls and bounce it on the tiles I can hear that about 1/4 of them are lose and the grout is the only thing holding them in place. The cabinet doors are painted plywood with the edge rabbeted to fit inside the face frame. and The countertops are a very light blue formica glued onto particle board. The walls are painted paneling. It’s worked for us for 7 years since we haven’t done anything since we moved in, but it’s time for a change. Mainly because we want to sell the house and want to get a good price and sell it quickly. That’s why I’m more willing to put in my time than a bunch of money.

It might be one of my quirks that I’m more willing to take a loss on my time put into the house than my money because if I put in $5k into the house and don’t up the resale value by at least $5k, then it seems like I can actually watch that money leaving my wallet. But there is really not much difference with my time because it does have value, but a loss on my time doesn’t feel as bad because I didn’t write a check the same way I would if I spent $3 or $4 per sq ft on flooring.

-- Dad: Someone was supposed to pick up his toys! Son: My name isn't "Someone".

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Doss

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#23 posted 09-14-2012 02:56 PM

Just sayin’, I’ve been wanting to do this to our extension room in our house:

Or

I’d say you could get those done in a year or so (and I understand about sinking in actual money versus time in this situation).

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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Jorge G.

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#24 posted 09-14-2012 04:07 PM

I work for lumber liquidators and we never ever recommend putting hardwood directly over concrete even if you use a adhesive with a vapor barrier built into it (which cost about $1 sq ft)

I wonder why you recommend against it when you have no experience with actual installations. I don’t know what vapor barrier you guys use, but I just bought the one I mentioned above, 36 square meters for $25 bucks.

Doss

Those floors are awesome, but as someone who has actually installed floors I can tell you they would be a major undertaking. You have to figure out the angle and width/length of the floor precisely to get the floor to fit exactly like in the top oand bottom pics. In the middle ones, as you can see they did not figure it out correctly and had to put straight strips to fill the space, it looks sloppy IMO.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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Mainiac Matt

9886 posts in 3408 days


#25 posted 09-14-2012 04:15 PM

You didn’t mention the lengths or widths of the boards….

But i used boards milled on my property and air dried (over several years) for my DR floor.

I intended to take them to a mill to have them planed and T & G. But because the boards were milled to 1” instead of 1-1/8”, there wasn’t enough thickness to get them all flat and keep the 3/4” needed for the T & G.

So I had them milled to the thickest measure possible and ripped straight to the widest 1/2” width.

I pre-drilled and face nailed them with box nails and though there are some gaps between the boards every so often, I love the floor.

-- Matt -- I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam

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JarodMorris

167 posts in 3455 days


#26 posted 09-14-2012 07:34 PM

The dimensions of the wood vary from 3” wide to 6” or 7” wide and between 10” and 20” long so these pattern floors are really my only option. Now, I just have to convince the wife. Oh, and wait for all of the wood to become available. Stopped by the place today that has the wood and they have 2 pallets of the oak ready to go, but they’re already sold. Usually generate one pallet every 2 or 3 weeks. Patience is not easy, but it is a virtue.

-- Dad: Someone was supposed to pick up his toys! Son: My name isn't "Someone".

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Don W

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#27 posted 09-14-2012 07:59 PM

as ssnvet mentioned, You didn’t mention the lengths or widths of the boards….(or I diodn’t see it, I’ll admit I may not have read everything)

I’m about to do something similar with some ash I cut myself. My time in my shop has no value, its what I do to get away from the time when my time does have a value, and its about as much enjoyment as I can get.

I only need about 600-800 sq ft, and I’ve got about a year to do get it ready. I’m going with random width from about 4” to 12”, nailing with cut nails. Lenghts will be 4’ to 12’.

If your looking at short small 2” by 12” or less, I’d probably say your nuts, but that would be the pot calling the kettle black.

Edit: Oh, and mines going over wood subfloors, replacing existing hardwood.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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JarodMorris

167 posts in 3455 days


#28 posted 09-14-2012 08:03 PM

I’m about to do something similar with some ash I cut myself. My time in my shop has no value, its what I do to get away from the time when my time does have a value, and its about as much enjoyment as I can get.

Absolutely! Oh, and I did respond to ssnvet with the dimensions. Because this would be fun for me, I don’t worry about the amount of time. If I am looking at putting together tiles like the links and pictures above, the smaller pieces are better because all of the pieces needed are small.

There is value in answering the “Why?” with “Because I could.”

-- Dad: Someone was supposed to pick up his toys! Son: My name isn't "Someone".

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JarodMorris

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#29 posted 09-14-2012 08:30 PM

If I’m already doing one crazy thing, how about throwing in another. Does anyone know of any radiant heating systems that could be installed under the hardwood? My house is on a slab foundation.

I know systems exist but usually they have to be installed into the slab when the concrete is poured, not like I’m talking about. My father-in-law has used them in houses he’s built in Colorado.

-- Dad: Someone was supposed to pick up his toys! Son: My name isn't "Someone".

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Woodknack

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#30 posted 09-14-2012 08:37 PM

Fastening a wood floor directly to concrete doesn’t seem wise to me, vapor barrier or not. First, it would seem to be a lot more work and two, everytime you punch through the vapor barrier you are making a pathway for moisture into the wood. May not be an issue in a dry climate but I suspect it would come back to haunt you in a humid climate. Of course these days a lot of people switch houses every ten years so it may not matter in the long run but if I were going to live there for awhile I wouldn’t do it in my house.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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Jorge G.

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#31 posted 09-14-2012 09:29 PM

In my book experience and having installed thousands of square feet on concrete counts more than an opinion, assumptions and suspicions… ;-)

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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Don W

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#32 posted 09-14-2012 09:29 PM

There is value in answering the “Why?” with “Because I could.”

Thank god my life has NOT been a total disaster!

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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BentheViking

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#33 posted 09-15-2012 04:55 AM

JMG as a company we only recommend the best practices, but I can acknowledge that other people have had and do things differently than we suggest. There is always more than one way to skin a cat.

That being said the product your referring to (36 meters for $25) is a cheap foam padding meant to be put under a cheap (6 or 7 mm) laminate floor and in the case of concrete used in conjunction with a 6 mil poly vapor barrier. It is not a suitable product to use when you are gluing down any floor.

Whenever installing over concrete, you need to not do a moisture test (as is commonly thought) but a calcium chloride test to determine the amount of moisture in the slab (which needs to be a minimum of 90 days old). Depending on the amount of moisture in the slab depends on which type of adhesive you use. The adhesive manufacturers are far more likely to discount any warranty claims if the proper site prep and tests was not done. And if you are going over concrete with a solid hardwood you would void any warranty on your flooring.

-- It's made of wood. Real sturdy.--Chubbs Peterson

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Jorge G.

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#34 posted 09-15-2012 05:38 PM

Nope, it is not foam. Foam is porous and would not work, plus it would develop mold. Also, you do not glue the foam to the floor, I have had to fix, well not fix but in fact redo an entire house because the prior contractor glued the barrier and then installed the floor. In fact the only wood floor that is glued it is when you are doing real parquetry, here in Mexico those are pieces 1” wide by 4” long and it is done with exceptional patterns. Even then you o not glue the vapor barrier to the concrete.

What it comes down to is this, I have done commercial spaces, I have done houses, I am in the process of remodeling a house for a client with wood floors in all the rooms. How many have you and your company done?

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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Woodknack

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#35 posted 09-16-2012 04:42 AM

JGM, you are also doing it in New Mexico, a very arid climate and forgiving of moisture movement. What works for you may not work in Ohio or Louisiana.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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OnlyJustME

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#36 posted 09-16-2012 06:31 AM

Wormil hit the nail on the head. Location is the biggest factor when installing a floor. Not just above, at, or below grade but also country/state you are in which changes the climate. What JGM is doing in mexico would create so many peaks and valleys in the floor here in Maryland usa it would put the colorado rockies to shame. I don’t know where Jarrod is located so i wouldn’t be able to advise him on installation. Personally, i would not install solid hard wood over concrete if it is at or below grade.

Concrete is porous and moisture travels through it generally from the ground up, so when you cover concrete with a moisture barrier it collects between the concrete and barrier. If you have a high water table in the area or poor draining soil it will pool under the barrier until it finds a way out. Either at the walls where there is material to be food for mold once moisture is introduced or any holes in the barrier in which case the wood soaks it up and warps. This is a more extreme case and not the norm but a good possibility in some areas. Also if the slab was installed correctly with a moisture barrier under the concrete this is minimized. There are lots of factors to account for with installing flooring and to say to do it this way because that is what you have done could lead to disaster for someone else.

Also there are so many different types of foam products out there today that saying ”Foam is porous and would not work, plus it would develop mold” is like saying all cars have 4 doors and are red.
The housing industry is now using a spray foam insulation that is a closed cell configuration and is a vapor barrier and mold does not grow on it.

Quite a bit more research for you to do Jarrod but of course that is part of every job and every professional would know that. I would contact the local housing codes and see what they recommend for your area and also talk to as many installers from your area to see what they do and if they have fixed floors, how were they installed?

-- In the end, when your life flashes before your eyes, will you like what you see?

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Jorge G.

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#37 posted 09-17-2012 07:14 PM

Actually I am in Mexico, if the suppositions you all make, no one here in Mexico would have wooden floors. Spray foam is not usead as a vapor barrier but as an insulator for things like post and beam homes, they do require to have a waterproof shell on the outside.

This is the problem with forums, opinions are given, which we all have. facts from professionals are rarely stated and when they are people like you challenge them. Funny….As I said, I have done many of this, you?

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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Doss

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#38 posted 09-17-2012 09:54 PM

JGM, how exactly are you fastening the floors where you’re at? Maybe I missed it someplace.

Everything is wet here in Mississippi. If we fastened directly to the concrete, we’d have a mess pretty quickly. I’ll try to get a moisture reading from my concrete, but just the moisture in our air would present a problem (especially for the fasteners) if fastening directly to concrete due to the difference in expansion between concrete and wood.

The method I am familiar with is plywood over moisture barrier over concrete. You can even float the plywood on the moisture barrier, but it recommended that if you do this you use two layers of 3/8” sheets running perpendicular to each other and fasten them to each other with short screws (do not puncture the moisture barrier).

There are some special adhesives that they make now that allow you to glue to the concrete, but that’s really for a plywood subfloor… not really for the finished floor itself.

JGM, understand that some of us are not knocking you because it may very well work where you’re at. I just know if you tried that here your floor would likely fail (and fairly quickly). What works where you’re at doesn’t always work everywhere else.

There are similar debates for insulation installation as well and which type to use and where the backing (paper) should face (inside or outside).

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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OnlyJustME

1562 posts in 3456 days


#39 posted 09-17-2012 11:10 PM

http://www.specjm.com/products/closedcell2/jmcorbondIII.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foam
Maybe you can do a little light reading. It is an air barrier and moisture barrier also. The point was that there are all kinds of FOAM. Some are vapor/moisture barriers some are even in your sofa and bed. Some are used to seal up skylight systems. Sil-seal is a foam product used to separate the wooden house structure from the concrete foundation so moisture does not pass to the wood from the concrete. Rigid FOAM insulation can be used as a vapor barrier if the seams are sealed together.

Your “facts” are still only your opinions but since you are a “professional” we should take them as facts? You think you are the only professional on this forum? I’ve also seen many “professionals” do horrific jobs installing different products including floors.

I could say i invented hardwood flooring but that doesn’t make it true or mean that i know all about it in every way, shape, or form.
Your signature says it all—Just because you’ve always done it that way doesn’t mean it’s not incredibly stupid.

-- In the end, when your life flashes before your eyes, will you like what you see?

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Jorge G.

1537 posts in 3555 days


#40 posted 09-17-2012 11:28 PM

Doss, we can argue till the cows come home. Here in Mexico there are plenty of places that are also horribly humid, as much as Louisiana, Mississippi, or Houston where I lived, and I have done jobs in those humid places as well.

OnlyJustME I am aware that there are many types of foam, my point was that it is not necessarily the most expensive that one that is required for the job, then again, as I stated before you post a dissenting opinion with no experience in what it is required. Your signature says it all as well, but IMO is not worth even the 2 cents.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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OnlyJustME

1562 posts in 3456 days


#41 posted 09-18-2012 12:35 AM

I’m sorry but i must have missed my own dissenting opinion. Where exactly was that?
Also i missed your point about “it is not necessarily the most expensive that one that is required for the job” in your blanketed statement about foam in response #34 being “Foam is porous and would not work, plus it would develop mold” and in response #37 “Spray foam is not usead as a vapor barrier but as an insulator for things like post and beam homes” (which is what i responded to with facts and links to back it up) since there was no mention of costs anywhere in those postings.
But i’m sure we could go back and forth like this all night and day and you would never be wrong.
And if it will make you happy i will state that I’m a professional installer too with plenty of experience. I don’t know why you assume if it isn’t stated then there is no experience.

My advice to the OP was simply just to find out what was recommended for proper procedure in his area by local codes and installers and it is up to him to make the best choice out of all the information he gathers.

-- In the end, when your life flashes before your eyes, will you like what you see?

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Jorge G.

1537 posts in 3555 days


#42 posted 09-18-2012 12:47 AM

and you would never be wrong.

Or you, so I guess it is all for naught.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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Doss

779 posts in 3344 days


#43 posted 09-18-2012 01:53 AM

JGM, you are mistaking my points, opinions, and alternate methods as arguing. I never said you were wrong. That is why I asked how you were fastening the boards down.

I’m just saying here in Mississippi that that’s not how we do things. In addition, a lot of other people don’t do things the way you are doing them. In fact, I couldn’t name a single contractor in my area that would do it like you’re recommending. Does that make any of us (you included) wrong? Not necessarily. You have to take a lot more into consideration than just wood and concrete to determine if the method you’re (as in you, me, everyone else) using will work for the given situation.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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Jorge G.

1537 posts in 3555 days


#44 posted 09-18-2012 02:16 AM

Doss, BentheViking is right in the sense that there are many ways to do it. I have seen the plywood method, but I considered it a waste of money. As I have stated before all we do here is wood over concrete, since this is the way houses are made in Mexico, with concrete floors which are then covered with tile or wood. I see no more reason to argue, I have satisfied customers and thousands of square feet of wood over concrete under my belt, I seriously doubt anybody in this forum has installed more wood over concrete than I have.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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