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Will California be the first state to legislate Table Saw Safety Devises

by thedude50
posted 03-18-2012 06:18 AM


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92 replies

92 replies so far

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

10909 posts in 4695 days


#1 posted 03-18-2012 06:24 AM

Wouldn’t surprise me!

Our idiots are Second to None!

Damn bastards!

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?media/albums/users/joe-lyddon.1389/

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thedude50

3611 posts in 3121 days


#2 posted 03-18-2012 06:38 AM

yes joe they know other manufactuers are going to make safe saws they just dont want us to choose and if the boys at saw stop really cared they would stop their planed lawsuit against whirlwind

-- Please check out my new stores http://woodratnest.com and http://woodshopstore.com

View HamS's profile

HamS

1837 posts in 3032 days


#3 posted 03-18-2012 10:21 AM

I think if the technology is so valuable that it needs to be mandated as required, then the state should exercise its power of emminent domain, condem and sieze the patent and place it in the public domain. That would be the only fair way to do it. But, California is broke, and no one really cares about fair in the legislative process so on we go.

-- Haming it up in the 'bash.

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

3129 posts in 4081 days


#4 posted 03-18-2012 10:59 AM

Years ago a group of idiots in California lobbied for all references of Darwin to be removed from textbooks. Since California purchases a huge percentage of textbooks, book publishers just made them all the same for the rest of the country. If California does this, then you’ll see safety options on saws in every state. But for other states if will probably be an option.

To look at it in another way. If it is mandated, it might be impetus enough for other saw manufacturers to finally care about their customers and design their own safety mechanisms. I’m sure there are other ways of doing it that wouldn’t infringe on Sawstops patent rights.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

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HamS

1837 posts in 3032 days


#5 posted 03-18-2012 12:15 PM

The market place is speaking. If you want a recent example of what happens when you ignore the voice of the market place, you need look no furthur than North Korea.

-- Haming it up in the 'bash.

View BigYin's profile

BigYin

421 posts in 3059 days


#6 posted 03-18-2012 12:23 PM

For HamS
..My mother named me Hamilton,
I have been trying to earn my nickname ever since…

People call me Shorty …Iain Hamilton Short

-- ... Never Apologise For Being Right ...

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Loren

10477 posts in 4291 days


#7 posted 03-18-2012 01:00 PM

I doubt the bill will pass but its introduction doesn’t surprise
me at all. Questions will quickly arise about the onerous
costs of retooling for manufacturers… not that there are
many table saws made in the states anymore.

View buffalosean's profile

buffalosean

174 posts in 4030 days


#8 posted 03-18-2012 01:17 PM

I like Colbert’s take:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/408216/february-13-2012/people-who-are-destroying-america---sawstop

-- There are many ways to skin a cat...... but, the butter knife is not recommended

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

1120 posts in 4256 days


#9 posted 03-18-2012 02:20 PM

Yep! Colbert is funny. Just a little one-sided.

Why doesn’t he address just how much Gass is going to make on this? Why doesn’t he address the endless litigation that Gass has supported to force manufacturers into adopting his technology? Why didn’t he look at the lobbying effort Gass has paid for with his own money?

(Associated Press, 25 May 2011)
Stephen Gass, the inventor of the SawStop technology that safety advocates would like to see on table saws, has retained Pamela Gilbert, a former executive director at the CPSC, to lobby for a saw safety rule that could help make Gass wealthy. Gass, of Tualatin, Ore., paid Gilbert $20,000 over a two-month period in the first quarter of the year.

This kind of revolving-door politician-to-lobbyist job-hopping is exactly what is wrong with Washington today. Why the hell didn’t Colbert mention any of that?

Fact is, it sounds like Gass wrote this little skit for Colbert. It portrays him as Gass always portrays himself: the little guy fighting for lost fingers against the greedy corporations. In fact, he is an opportunist, hoping to get rich via a government mandated fiat for all manufacturers of table saws to use his technology.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

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waho6o9

8816 posts in 3220 days


#10 posted 03-18-2012 02:46 PM

Brilliant

Double digit Unemployment, House market tanking, energy prices rising, easier to get welfare than building permits, water turned off in central Ca. to protect some stupid fish resulting in higher produce prices and unemployment, and no new refineries being built.

And they wonder why businesses leave the State of Ca., over 200 last year.

And libtards and stupid rinos have a plan, you guessed it, raise taxes. Brilliant.

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

5252 posts in 4603 days


#11 posted 03-18-2012 03:05 PM

I can remember when Joan Claybrooke (former Sec. of Transportation) tried to mandate seatbelts for motorcycles. Same mindset.
Everyone wants to save me from myself.
Bill

-- [email protected]

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NBeener

4816 posts in 3817 days


#12 posted 03-18-2012 03:53 PM

Capitalism: the worst economic system in the world.
Except for all the others.

-- -- Neil

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

10909 posts in 4695 days


#13 posted 03-18-2012 05:38 PM

I just wish California & Government in General would stop BUTTING into every aspect of our lives “to make it better”!

If they spent more time on removing unneeded regulations & licenses, obscene pension plans & salaries, stop wasting tax money, making it better for Businesses to be started & function, caring more about People than insects & small animals, etc. instead of removing needed functions in order to improve lives… and STOP BUTTING into our lives, our Country would be a better place to really LIVE!

For God’s sake everyone in their right mind:
... KNOWS how dangerous a Table Saw is!
... KNOWS how to be careful and to use it SAFELY!
... KNOWS how to operate it in a Safe manner in order to avoid terrible accidents!
... KNOWS there is a SAWSTOP available…
......what it can do… and how much it costs…
......and whether they can afford to BUY it!

Give US a little credit! We are really NOT stupid! We probably know more about our table saws than YOU DO! You see the blade spinning, sharp as a razor, etc. and just FREAK OUT to see it turned on!

We DO NOT FREAK OUT in using it… We know what it is and how to use it!

Get OFF our Backs and simply LEAVE US ALONE…

LET US continue to have THE CHOICE in the matter…

BUTT OUT!

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?media/albums/users/joe-lyddon.1389/

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

3129 posts in 4081 days


#14 posted 03-18-2012 06:59 PM

For God’s sake everyone in their right mind:
... KNOWS how dangerous a Table Saw is!
... KNOWS how to be careful and to use it SAFELY!
... KNOWS how to operate it in a Safe manner in order to avoid terrible accidents!

True but there are still 40,000 table saw accidents a year.

For God’s sake everyone in their right mind:
... KNOWS how dangerous a car without seatbelts is!
... KNOWS how to be careful and wear their seatbelts!
... KNOWS how to operate it in a Safe manner in order to avoid terrible accidents!

Yet we have laws making us wear them. And lives are saved. There are 50,000 car accident deaths/year. Nearly as many as table saw accidents.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

10909 posts in 4695 days


#15 posted 03-18-2012 07:36 PM

Let’s Save more lives…

OK, then Laws should be changed to force automobiles to be built that cannot Crash into things and KILL people.
... like huge rubber Bumpers all the way around it… Like Bumper cars!

Cars should NOT be allowed to run into other cars or anything else that will KILL OTHER people.

We cannot allow people to get killed AT ALL from cars anymore…

We must remove ALL Risk from driving a car OR being around them so they can hit us.

Hitting anyone with a car should NOT be allowed.

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?media/albums/users/joe-lyddon.1389/

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Craftsman on the lake

3129 posts in 4081 days


#16 posted 03-18-2012 07:44 PM

For Joe,

Would anyone argue that if it were possible to stop anyone from dying from a car accident we would? We can only stop some with the government mandates we have. Saving everyone may never be possible short of never riding in cars.

Would anyone argue that if it were possible stop all table saw accidents we should? Wait a minute. We could stop all table saw accidents.

You don’t make much sense I think.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4816 posts in 3817 days


#17 posted 03-18-2012 08:17 PM

Joe Lyddon:

If you get REALLY bored, a little useful light reading for you:

LINK

HTH.

-- -- Neil

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Joe Lyddon

10909 posts in 4695 days


#18 posted 03-18-2012 08:31 PM

Craftsman:

“Wait a minute. We could stop all table saw accidents.”

Not Quite…

I’d be willing to bet that there more very serious table saw accidents resulting from Kickback than getting cut by the blade.

Simply… It should be a CHOICE… not a mandate… IMHO
... and, if someone cuts a finger, that is the chance he/she took… and there is NOT a huge drain on the Economy or the Government or the Public as a result of it.

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?media/albums/users/joe-lyddon.1389/

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Craftsman on the lake

3129 posts in 4081 days


#19 posted 03-18-2012 08:35 PM

Sometimes generalizations do make sense. Just because a web page says that sometimes they don’t, we have to use our heads. A safer saw would save injuries. The one safe saw that we have does save injuries. A government mandate for cars saves lives. It’s a given. A government mandate for safer saws would save injuries because we have a saw that shows it does. This is not hard to understand.

The only argument you could make is that you don’t want the government mandating that a saw should have a safety feature that would keep virtually all people from being cut. If that’s the case then okay. You want the option to lose your fingers and don’t want the government telling you that you can’t cut them off if you want to. I say, even if you have a sawstop type of feature. You could turn the feature off and cut off any fingers you want. But, I want a powermatic and I want one with safety features. And look at it this way. One way we all could win. If all saws had a $300 safety mechanism (the cost of the one made by sawstop) then sawstop wouldn’t be able to charge $1000 more for it’s saw. The only reason that they do is that is like the ipad. People want what the ipad does and how it does it. No one else’s does it that way exactly. So apple can charge what it wants for it and people are rabid to buy them. Sawstop is doing well because a lot of people really want the safety, so they can charge what they want to.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

1120 posts in 4256 days


#20 posted 03-18-2012 10:06 PM

Craftsman is talking without all the facts. The mechanism itself may cost $300, but Gass’s license for the technology (which SawStop, being his company, probably does not have to pay) is 8% of the saw’s retail price.

Ask yourself: is it worth raising the price of every table saw 10% worth the few fingers saved? And why do those who do not cut their fingers off have to pay for those who do (or might)?

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

View Scot's profile

Scot

344 posts in 4039 days


#21 posted 03-19-2012 12:48 AM

I heard that table saws cause cancer in California.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

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RandyM68

693 posts in 2961 days


#22 posted 03-19-2012 02:52 AM

If everyone has a saw stop, we won’t be able to identify the stupid ones by their missing fingers. They’ll be able to sneak up on you. There is absolutely no end in trying to protect morons from themselves. California keeps doing it and their supply of idiots increases daily. Regardless of what your religious views are, evolution is a good thing. The strong and intelligent survive, the weak and stupid are supposed to die off, strengthening the gene pool. Government tries to over ride natural selection by passing laws to insure that the most useless among us live long enough to have children. We don’t raise cattle that way, and we plan to eat them, they don’t even need to be smart. We still kill the ones, that are unfit, before they multiply. With stupid people, the more kids they are able to have, the bigger the check is. California just leads the way. I’m just waiting for the big earthquake that turns Nevada into beach front property. That should slow the decline of civilization, by a couple of weeks, anyway. I’ll take what I can get.

-- I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm sorry,thanks.

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KenBry

484 posts in 3090 days


#23 posted 03-19-2012 02:58 AM

Hey Scot,

You are right. The do… My Lie Nielsen Hand Plane comes with a little note in it’s box. The materials in this plane are known to cause cancer in california.

I HATE CALIFORNIA… I’m just sayin…..I also hate politics and the morons associated to it.

-- Ken, USAF MSgt, Ret.

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BobM001

388 posts in 2973 days


#24 posted 03-19-2012 03:17 AM

Ah yes! Another “Kalifornia inspired” protection. Like the unvented gas can that we all love so well. Like the “Proposition 65” warnings on just about everything. I think that the “Mexifornia” government is hazardous to the health of the USA.

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

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Craftsman on the lake

3129 posts in 4081 days


#25 posted 03-19-2012 04:20 AM

Craftsman is talking without all the facts. The mechanism itself may cost $300, but Gass’s license for the technology (which SawStop, being his company, probably does not have to pay) is 8% of the saw’s retail price.

I’m talking about A mechanism. Not THE mechanism. Other saw companies could come up with their own safety mechanism. Then it might cost $300, not necessarily 8%. Surely other saw companies are capable of making a safety mechanism. Sawstop can’t be the only ones with the brains?

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

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thedude50

3611 posts in 3121 days


#26 posted 03-19-2012 06:29 AM

I heard that table saws cause cancer in California.

well actually they do cause lung cancer and pharynx cancer this is most common in the use of mdf and the new tempered mdf as well as tempered hardboard and some woods the ultra fine particles that don’t get removed by your dust collection it is recommended to use a respirator when working with the man made items and research the wood your going to use and you will find if it is a known carcinogen.

No name calling or personal attacks any of that and like all my threads Ill block you keep if fun and keep it civil

California is a full blown Nanny State many of their nanny laws are just newsince’s take the mandatory helmet law it actually caused an increase in accidents and the fatality rate was unchanged

-- Please check out my new stores http://woodratnest.com and http://woodshopstore.com

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WOODIE1

117 posts in 2922 days


#27 posted 03-19-2012 06:29 AM

There are lots of ways to look at this. I just hate when people say that it is stupidity that causes the accidents. It just isn’t true. You can be cutting a piece of wood using every safety device and years of wisdom and have something happen. A knot in the wood or any other variable that is impossible to counter quick enough.

Table saw are dangerous and what is happening is the lazy Industry that has been selling the exact design without a thought of investing money to make safety improvements is now being forced to do so. Are you going to tell me there are zero inventions to make table saws safer or easier to use in all these years? I would guess there are about 1 person part time in every saw company whos job it is to create newer designs.

Sawstop is not the only answer to a safer saw. Actually it is fairly simple and would easily be surpassed with some thought. Nobody is saying a safe saw stops the blade. There has to be 100’s of ways to help prevent accidents. Lets not start sticking up for the saw Cos that know they can make improvements but don’t just because they do not HAVE to.

This is a good thing to get the Cos off their asses and make saws safer. I for one am looking forward to seeing innovation.

Stop convincing yourself you are so smart that an accident can’t happen to you, that is why they call them accidents. Let’s see what they come up with?

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

10909 posts in 4695 days


#28 posted 03-19-2012 06:41 AM

Johnathan,

I’m working on an electric eye that goes into the fence, Once a piece of wood passes the eye, a blocking bar pops up to prevent kickback, Once I get it worked out I will have the government make it mandatory. ;)

Yes, I know you’re pulling my leg… LOL

Why don’t you sell it Over the Counter rather than Under the Table? LOL

I’m sure you will have better success!

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?media/albums/users/joe-lyddon.1389/

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Joe Lyddon

10909 posts in 4695 days


#29 posted 03-19-2012 06:44 AM

EEngineer,

OK, I ask myself all of the important questions…

Now, let ME decide if I want it or not!

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?media/albums/users/joe-lyddon.1389/

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Joe Lyddon

10909 posts in 4695 days


#30 posted 03-19-2012 06:45 AM

Scot,

In California, EVERYTHING causes Cancer!

That’s why we’re Bankrupt! LOL

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?media/albums/users/joe-lyddon.1389/

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Joe Lyddon

10909 posts in 4695 days


#31 posted 03-19-2012 06:48 AM

Craftsman on the lake,
Let ME make my choice… NOT the fricken Government!

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?media/albums/users/joe-lyddon.1389/

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doughan

96 posts in 3234 days


#32 posted 03-19-2012 06:49 AM

Ok all yu do gooders that want this mandated by our idiots in california…....can i pay what you do for gas?

but i digress…if they want us all to be protected from nt onlt table saws but also our own stupid selves lets just have it done this way…...mandate that they purchaser of a saw without this technology sign away his rights too sue the manufacturer and his employer if he gets hurt with a saw without such technolgy and let peple be free to d as they choose…..................
Or is that just alittle to much freedom fr craftsman by the lake that want to have their wives let them do their own thing

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Joe Lyddon

10909 posts in 4695 days


#33 posted 03-19-2012 06:52 AM

WOODIE1,

I don’t have to be SOLD on whether SawStop is a good product or not…

PLEASE… Let me CHOOSE to use it or not!

If I lose, it’s my fault… NOT anyone elses… You and everyone else can Sleep at Night… with no added taxes/ expense to you!

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?media/albums/users/joe-lyddon.1389/

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oldnovice

7522 posts in 4011 days


#34 posted 03-19-2012 08:27 AM

This is no different than some cities not allowing McDonalds to sell Happy Meals as they cause obesity, or outlawing how much salt restaurants can serve, or outlawing bottled water. These are PERSONAL decision and the government should stay out of it.

It should be up to the parents whether or not to buy a Happy Meal so show them why so they can decide. If I want to increase my blood pressure let me have my salt. I personally don’t drink bottled water but let those that want to, let them and put a bounty on the plastic bottles (some one will figure a way to make money with this, after all isn’t that what we are all about?

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Richard's profile

Richard

11309 posts in 3676 days


#35 posted 03-19-2012 09:40 AM

I filled out something like this maybe 8 months or so ago. Did I EVER fill it out. Basically NO! “This is a Company who is trying to use Government Legislation for their own Personal Profit, and on, and on, and on.”

However I will fill in at least one of the above Petitions. Living in Canada I’m not sure how this will affect us. Naturally if other Saw manufacturers are forced to “Improve Their Safety Devices” it will arrive here also.

IMO Table saws are “Dangerous” by their very existence and purpose of use. So are MANY other Woodworking Tools! Respect and Understand the Nature of the Tool!

I think that sometimes people use these tools and are AFRAID of getting Hurt or are Concious of that FACT (in their own mind)! Guess what … You Probably Will!!

There are Dozens of Tools, Appliances, Whatever in your Home and Everywhere else that could Kill or seriously Injure you. IF you want to start making a List of them all. I believe it’s called “Paranoia”. NO THANK YOU!!

Last night I made about 15/20 Rips on 6’ to 8’ Boards. 3/4” Pine with Lots Of Knots. Not even close to getting hurt. I CONCENTRATE on what I’m doing. Most of all I watch where the wood is in contact with the Fence. TIGHT! You let it move away? You’re in trouble! No Guard either. I think they are a Pain and interfear with the Cut.

CONFESSION: Last Spring I was cleaning up the Power Lawn Mower Blade so I could Sharpen it. Using a 3/8” Drill with a Small Wire Wheel. It was Hopping all over the place. I got a little Closer so I could get a better grip on the Drill.
Wire Wheel Hopped, Grabbed my T-Shirt Wound it’s way up and CRACKED me in the Lower jaw. It was also on Trigger Lock. That Hurt. My Mistake? I guess so but the blade got cleaned and sharpened anyway.

Any kind of a “Device” that could have prevented that, beside my Ill Placed Eagerness to get the job done?

In any event ….. To Hell with Saw Stop!

ALSO: As Joe has said MANY times …”PLEASE… Let me CHOOSE to use it or not!

Freakin’ Government drives me NUTS!! They assume we are all a bunch of Lame Brains who are probably gonna fall down a Man/Person Hole if we Walk and Chew Gum at the same time.

Regards To All: Rick

-- Richard (Ontario, CANADA)

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EEngineer

1120 posts in 4256 days


#36 posted 03-19-2012 10:04 AM

Craftsman and WOODIE – the proposal in front of the CPSC (written by Gass, by the way) was discussed in open testimony about it (transcripts are on the Web – Google it). During that testimony, it was admitted by Gass that the only device that would meet the proposal was one covered by the 78 patents that Gass has been granted. Small wonder since Gass wrote the proposal.

No, make no mistake about this – the proposal that CPSC is considering will grant Gass an exclusive license and a government-mandated monopoly.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

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Craftsman on the lake

3129 posts in 4081 days


#37 posted 03-19-2012 11:29 AM

No, make no mistake about this – the proposal that CPSC is considering will grant Gass an exclusive license and a government-mandated monopoly.

They will grant sawstop the right to own the product they patented. Other saw companies know that they will have to care enough about their businesses, or heaven forbid, even their customers, to develop and patent their own devices. If it’s mandated people will have a lower cost choice from different manufacturers. If the other major brands got together, developed a device, then shared it, Sawstop’s price would drop and it would just become another saw company. And, you’d be safer.

Personally, I don’t think you should have a choice to buy a machine that spins an open blade with hooked teeth at lightning speeds, designed to use with your hands up to an inch away from it. Think about it. It’s a crazy dangerous machine. It would be like building a car with no floorboards. Sawstop is the first to make a saw that addresses the answer to a machine that probably shouldn’t be allowed in households

I want the right to be able to have a hot water tank without that $30 pressure release valve on the top. Mine has never gone off in 40 years. They say the tank is a potential bomb without it. In my experience it’s not true. I think it’s a way for plumbing companies to sell a valve that isn’t needed. It’s a government conspiracy. I think it’s a ‘Bamabomb conspiracy.

I’ll be back to comment again in a minute. My tin foil hat ripped. I need to replace it before it’s too late.

Hey guys, it’s been fun. This is a non political bantering that is the type that should be on the “other types of topics agenda”. It’s fun, doesn’t really offend anyone and could lead to some better saws in the future, who knows? I think I’ve posted enough on it though. Thanks for being civil with me. All good guys (and gals) here.

I will tell you though that, I’ve got a great nephew and my daughter’s boyfriend that are both in their mid 20’s. They have good jobs and are doing well. I’m happy that they began setting up shop recently. I was honored that they both contacted me regarding what saw to get. I told them about Powermatic, Grizzly, etc. All good saws. I then sent them the link to the sawstop hotdog videos. I said, “If I were your age, and had 50 years of woodworking ahead of me, then there is no other option, Sawstop. I also feel better in that I advised them and won’t get a call some day that the saw I recommended chopped off a couple of fingers. They took the advice. Actually they couldn’t see why anyone wouldn’t. I got to see my nephew’s sawstop contractors saw. I was pleased to see that it was a handsome, well machined, accurate, well made saw. I did good. What would your advice be in such a case. What if it was your kids. The only shame is that because only one saw manufacturer has bothered to make a safer saw, the saw is expensive. Too much so for some people. If everyone had their own safety mechanism, the prices would come down.

I’ll keep watching the banter fly here.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

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canadianchips

2632 posts in 3640 days


#38 posted 03-19-2012 02:31 PM

Take this light hearted please :
Only in California……..for now…………..Sadly Ontario Canada tries to imitate California’s laws.
Saw stop technology.
Only the late great “George Carlin” could have said this better:
“Saw stop in california, bout time, nothing worse than driving down the freewayin your NEW MOTORHOME, certain campgrounds do not allow anything older than 5 years , looking over at the convertible mercedes,hope it has no oil leaks,cause E TEST is MANDATORY, it pulls along side of you (your in the sunshine state convertables are MANDATORY) and to your HORROR , the driver is missing a finger or maybe a toe! In California you have to have plastic surgery ,its MANDATORY(Ugly is not allowed), and ,and if your lips to not stick out PAST your nose, some BOTOX is needed,its MANDATORY (years ago daffy duck only had lips NOW LOOK AT HIM )And heaven forbid if your OVERWEIGHT, thin is MANDATORY. Can you imagine someone like “Charlie Sheen “using a table saw“ NOT WINNING
What was that expression fom the sixties ? “All I can say is what a GASS?”

-- "My mission in life - make everyone smile !"

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BobM001

388 posts in 2973 days


#39 posted 03-19-2012 03:14 PM

Personally I feel that tablesaws are the woodworker’s friend. They “cull” the careless and inept from the herd. That’s not ALWAYS the case though. Who was that “master carpenter” on “This Old House” that had a “partial paw” as result from contact with a spinning blade? It seems to me that there are MUCH better things for elected officials to do ESPECIALLY in Kalifornia than trying to FIX STUPID. Sorry folks, can’t be done. This lot are the same that will cut out a wall in their “DIY Frenzy” and fail to properly header off the opening and wonder why the ceiling is sagging. I guess that our beloved tablesaw can be likened to a firearm. You always treat it as if it were loaded and you could if NOT CAREFUL, SHOOT YOURSELF or someone else. Can’t imagine a Beretta over and under with this massive guard over the muzzle that would prevent you from putting your hand in front as you pulled the trigger to see if “anything came out the end”. There are an abundant number of videos out there showing tablesaw safety, procedures, accidents, et al. You can’t “nanny state” PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. This Gass fellow is just in it for the dough. The fact that he’s attempting to “legislate” mandatory use of his product is CRONY CAPITALISM at it’s finest.

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

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doughan

96 posts in 3234 days


#40 posted 03-19-2012 04:16 PM

“Personally, I don’t think you should have a choice to buy a machine that spins an open blade with hooked teeth at lightning speeds, designed to use with your hands up to an inch away from it. Think about it. It’s a crazy dangerous machine. It would be like building a car with no floorboards. Sawstop is the first to make a saw that addresses the answer to a machine that probably shouldn’t be allowed in households”

that paragraph says so much about you that you don’t even realize…....you are AFRAID of your table saw and YOU should probably take up crocheting….Most of the the rest of us RESPECT THE DANGER of the machine and choose too live with the risk rather then deal with the expense.

So please tell me why YOUR opinion and assesment of risk supercedes ur in a free society?The answer to that will tell me that you sir dn’t understand that this discussion isn’t about the saw stop by about the future of america…..your america I don’t want to live in.The problem here is that it is OUR america and you are perfectly free to tremble in fear at the edge of your saw….jsut stay the hell out of my life and my decisions bcause ,sir,I fear the future with out the freedom to make my own decisions.

Freedom is like a big treethat can be worn away a particle of saw dust at a time…..but the dust it creates is very hard to make back into a tree but easily makes particle board and we all know why that product is cheap.It is built from the detritus of the freedom tree

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terry603

321 posts in 3556 days


#41 posted 03-19-2012 04:37 PM

if any state will it will be cali,look at what they just did for the coke and pepsi formula

-- may not always be right,but,never in doubt.

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TheDane

5743 posts in 4306 days


#42 posted 03-19-2012 04:39 PM

I’m not afraid of my table saw … I just respect it.

If I buy a new saw in coming years, I would consider a SawStop … I have used one, and they are good machines. I just don’t approve of government limiting my choices.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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JBfromMN

107 posts in 3419 days


#43 posted 03-19-2012 04:45 PM

I see no mention in this one thread, so I feel it should be added. Does anyone know what Gass did before he was a world famous Tablesaw Inventor?

Ten points to those that know he was a Patent Attorney. To those that say the other manufactures will just have to invent their own technology, do you not think a Patent Attorney has closed every loop hole that he can possibly conceive of? IF their technology stops the blade with any kind of Brake Mechanism, then Gass will get a cut, figuratively speaking.

Then at that point, where do we draw the line? Band Jaws have a moving blade that butchers have been using for years to cut up all of their wares. How about a Jointer, that thing scares me much more then a table saw. It will shave off a lay of you just a quick as a layer of wood. Also how can they implement this technology on a hand held power saw. Are they not just as dangerous? The debate can go on and on. IMO we need LESS government, not more.

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DrDirt

4600 posts in 4385 days


#44 posted 03-19-2012 04:55 PM

What is interesting is that for Cainet saws there is no “premium” cost to the brake.
Powermatic PM2000, the new Unisaw, and the Sawstop 3HP saws are all identical in price.

For safety – I would love to see a breakdown of the 40,000 accidents a year split into price groups.

Just thinking that are many of the major accidents, like the Osario case, involving SUPER – elCheapo Ryobi saw are more dangerous than a contractor/hybrid saw or cabinet saw.

I mean really in the Osario case you have a saw that sells for 167 dollars at Home depot, being run without a fence or guard. Yet the injury resulted from not having flesh sensing technology?
How about the operator was a dumbass…..as Ron White says, “you can’t fix stupid”

As far as craftsmans comment about getting to care about customers and patent their own devices.
I have gone through the patent process here where I work and patenting a different brake will be extraordinarily difficult.
WHen you patent – you explain the “preferred Embodiment” but also it covers all derivative technologies.

So how will you patent ANY flesh sensing table saw and not be “similar” to the sawstop. As in the whirlwind
which Sawstop is challenging.
A challeng with the whirlwind design is it is built into the blade guard….how many people could even find their blade guards? Sawstop works with Dado sets – whirlwind doesn’t
Yet all this is tied up in challenges of infringement from Sawstop.

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

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canadianchips

2632 posts in 3640 days


#45 posted 03-19-2012 05:56 PM

”San Andreas Fault”
In the next few years when this happens, it will not matter what the “Island of California” does. It can continue floating North Westerly to…..........?

-- "My mission in life - make everyone smile !"

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Joe Lyddon

10909 posts in 4695 days


#46 posted 03-19-2012 06:59 PM

... or float South… to join the Home land!

Si… ??

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?media/albums/users/joe-lyddon.1389/

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RandyM68

693 posts in 2961 days


#47 posted 03-19-2012 07:02 PM

Most power tools are the same. They have this round thing in the middle. It may not even be that sharp. With stationary tools, the cutter never changes locations. Unless the machine flies apart, said cutter will never, ever, reach out and get you. As long as you can still see daylight between you and the blade, you’ll be okay, I promise. It’s just that when you use up all that daylight, one of you will get bit. Guess which one? Sometimes you need to be right next to it, there is no other way. Just don’t touch it. I’ve been bit too, but every single solitary time I did it to my own dumb self. Usually, I even knew better before it happened. Like the second time I barked the same knuckle on a bench grinder. I figured there is probably a better way to do it. Fortunately, I learned on lesser tools, but the lesson is the same. Especially on table saws.Don’t lean your body-weight into the cut. If you slip and fall into the blade, it will tear your ass up. If the board doesn’t slide easily, you have another problem. When ripping, I plant my left hand as a guide to hold the board flat, and against the fence. If possible I only use my right hand to push the board, preferably with my two little fingers on top of the fence. If I do slip, my only moving hand slides along the fence, not into the blade.
This discussion is about the government trying to protect us from our own self. All that Saw Stop even does is stop the blade as you are trying to run your fingers through it. All this side line discussion about seat belts, helmets, cancer, and even table saw kick-backs are a non-issue. Saw stop is nothing like any of these things, it won’t even prevent kickbacks. It merely pevents dumb asses who have already stuck one of their body parts into the blade, from pushing the rest of them self into the moving blade. Steve Gass will soon be the new Patron saint of morons the world over. He’ll save you all.

-- I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm sorry,thanks.

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ruel24

79 posts in 2936 days


#48 posted 03-19-2012 07:33 PM

Isn’t SawStop’s patent up in 2014? Maybe it’ll get dragged through the courts long enough, or not take effect until after the patents have run out. I’m sure there are alternate methods waiting to be put into saws, too, that possibly don’t require the blade to slam into a hunk of aluminum at such a high speed and require $170 to get working again… I’m sure the other manufacturers have been working on solutions they’re going to implement after the patents run out. They’re not going to let SawStop be the only game in town.

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DrDirt

4600 posts in 4385 days


#49 posted 03-19-2012 07:49 PM

Problem ruel24 is that
If it uses electrical continuity to detect flesh…..INFRINGMENT
If it has a Spring loaded Cartridge….INFRINGEMENT
If the blade is drawn below the table…..INFRINGEMENT

you get the idea.
It is not just the specific cartridge design….this is why there are 78 patents on sawstop not just 1
They do not all run out at the same time
The PATENT LAWYER that INVENTED Sawstop – patented not just the final design…but like Edison finding 10,000 failures at making a light bulb, He nonetheless PATENTED every design he tried. He only went into production with what you buy today.

So he is out to make sure he gets his fat payday.

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

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patron

13696 posts in 3984 days


#50 posted 03-19-2012 08:37 PM

randy
Steve Gass will soon be the new Patron saint of morons the world over. He’ll save you all.

he will have to get past me to do this
i have a copyright on this
and my warranty is good for life !

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

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