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View Fotodog's profile

Help repairing a roller stand

by Fotodog
posted 07-20-2021 01:08 AM


23 replies so far

View JCamp's profile

JCamp

1429 posts in 1800 days


#1 posted 07-20-2021 01:47 AM

Any chance that putting a C clam on there would squeeze it enough to hold it still?

-- Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4912 posts in 2744 days


#2 posted 07-20-2021 04:32 AM

Welcome to club.

Have several various cheap roller stands with stripped threads on locking bolt.

Drilled out the stripped nut, used a short bolt and c-clamp for awhile on one?

Without a welder to fix steel, your options are limited. Finally got fed up and made a better fix.
Ground the old weld nut or stripped threads off to make smooth surface. Then welded a grade 8 coupler nut (1” long) over hole. Used a star knob that allows replaceable bolts, and use grade 3 hex bolt to lock it down. About every 2-3 years, this gorilla grip Klutz has to toss the old stripped bolt and use a new one.

If you can find cup point or dog point (square end) ‘jack’ bolts; they dig in better and don’t need as much torque applied. I welded a piece of 3” flat bar to square head of jack bolt, and it has lasted longest so far.
YMMV

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View Jake Brain's profile

Jake Brain

68 posts in 4019 days


#3 posted 07-20-2021 10:46 AM

You mite try to use a Heli Coil if there is enough metal. This Youtobe vidil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79IYC4L68LU

-- Jake Brain, Florida

View SMP's profile

SMP

4850 posts in 1155 days


#4 posted 07-20-2021 12:43 PM



You mite try to use a Heli Coil if there is enough metal. This Youtobe vidil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79IYC4L68LU

- Jake Brain

yep i have used helicoils to repair all kinds of stuff on cars etc. though it looks like the tightening rid is stripped too. so you may want to buy a new threaded knob to match whatever helicoil insert.

https://www.amazon.com/Knobs-Hand-Wheels/b?ie=UTF8&node=16412791

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

8004 posts in 2637 days


#5 posted 07-20-2021 01:30 PM

Looks like steel to me. If it is actually steel, this would be a lot easier if you have a friend who can weld for you. You could simply have them weld a nut over the existing hole. If you take it to a welding shop, they might do it for free or less than $10 if you do all the prep to drill out the old hole, grind off the paint and zinc off the nut beforehand; otherwise, here is how I would address it.
  • I would get a thicker piece of steel and cut (hack saw, angle grinder bench grinder, file) it to the same triangular shape as the piece there and drill the 2 attachment holes to line up with the ones there.
  • Drill 2 more holes further down on the diagonal pieces and tap them to accept 2 more bolts. Remove the plate to do the tapping and enlarge the 2 new holes in the plate to clear the treads of the bolts.
  • I would drill out the old hole larger than the hole in the new plate so that the new bolt passes through it.
  • Drill a new hole exactly where the old tapped hole is and tap it to what ever size bolt you decide you want to use. I would get a new tightening bolt with a nob to match the new hole.
  • Attach the new plate over the old one with 4 bolts (might need longer ones)

Having someone weld a nut on will probably be cheaper.

EDIT: I should have proofread more carefully after editing. Fixed now.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View HokieKen's profile (online now)

HokieKen

19438 posts in 2388 days


#6 posted 07-20-2021 01:33 PM

Helicoil is best solution but probably too costly to be effective if it’s for a one-time use. Welding a nut on is certainly a good solution too if you have the capability. The simplest solution might be to drill it out and tap for a larger size bolt if you have a tap available.

If you don’t need infinite adjustability in the height, you could just drill a series of holes in the inner bar and use a pin to hold position. Think automobile jack stands.

-- I collect hobbies. There is no sense in limiting yourself (Don W) - - - - - - - - Kenny in SW VA

View Fotodog's profile

Fotodog

84 posts in 1029 days


#7 posted 07-20-2021 01:47 PM

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I think you are correct, it’s a lightweight steel. Welding on a nut would be the simplest solution, but when I have had metal work done before here in San Francisco, all the shops had a minimum fee of $70 – $80.

I’m not sure there’s enough thickness for a heli coil, but that’s great information to know. It’s basically the metal version of the threaded inserts I have used in wood. I’ll do some research.

Kenny, drilling and tapping for a larger bolt sounds like it might be a good solution.

-- Tim

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

8004 posts in 2637 days


#8 posted 07-20-2021 01:48 PM

It would seem to me that the Helicoil would not work here (I’ve never used it). It looks to me that the steel, including the rim around the hole is less than about 3/16” thick?

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View Ruscal's profile

Ruscal

120 posts in 428 days


#9 posted 07-20-2021 02:06 PM

Show up at the welding shop an hour before quitting time with a 12 pack.

-- Have a hobby? You should have a business.

View SMP's profile

SMP

4850 posts in 1155 days


#10 posted 07-20-2021 02:23 PM



Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I think you are correct, it’s a lightweight steel. Welding on a nut would be the simplest solution, but when I have had metal work done before here in San Francisco, all the shops had a minimum fee of $70 – $80. I’m not sure there’s enough thickness for a heli coil, but that’s great information to know. It’s basically the metal version of the threaded inserts I have used in wood. I’ll do some research.

Kenny, drilling and tapping for a larger bolt sounds like it might be a good solution.

- Fotodog

do you know what size helicoil you need? i have a couple bags of different sizes. like i need one but have to buy 5 or 10. shouldnt be too much to ship from So Cal to Nor Cal if i have one thst fits its yours

View splintergroup's profile (online now)

splintergroup

5891 posts in 2472 days


#11 posted 07-20-2021 04:59 PM

I’d use a “T” nut:

Hammer or pliers to flatten the spikes then drill your stripped hole out to the size of the OD of the T nuts threaded shaft.

Insert the T nut from the inside of the flange (might need to bend the flange outwards slightly).

Generally the tightening of the lock screw will put enough force on the T nut to keep it from spinning, but you could peen around the flange hole with a center punch to displace enough metal to better grab the nuts shaft.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

1409 posts in 2352 days


#12 posted 07-20-2021 08:49 PM

Drill out the existing screw hole. Then, get a flanged nut like this and silver solder (braze) it over the larger hole. Silver soldering is strong and is easy to do with nothing more than a propane or Mapp torch. There are lots of web sites and/or videos that show you how. You will need some 56% silver solder (small quantities available on Ebay for under $10), some proper flux, and a torch. The flanged nut will provide additional surface area for brazing and make it even stronger. Then use a larger bolt with a shop made knob.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

1409 posts in 2352 days


#13 posted 07-23-2021 09:25 PM

Not sure if the OP is still here. But, for anyone still interested, I think there is a simpler solution. Bolt on a piece of 1/2” to 3/4” wide mild steel 1/8” thick strap using the two existing socket head screws. Or, if the bolts are not long enough, replace them. Then drill and tap a new hole through all three layers of steel. Insert a new bolt with a shop fashioned knob or handle.

View Fotodog's profile

Fotodog

84 posts in 1029 days


#14 posted 07-23-2021 11:51 PM

I’m still here, and thanks again guys for your responses. I got busy and was waiting until I had time to work on this to reply, but don’t want anyone to feel like I abandoned the thread. One thing that’s probably not clear in the photo, the 2 bolts attach the legs to the upper support, and allow the legs to hinge open and closed so the stand can fold flat.

I bought a 3/8” tap to see if I could just clean up the existing 3/8” hole, but it was too far gone to work. There’s not enough thickness for heli coils, but that’s great to know for the future. T-nuts won’t work in this situation, because they would interfere with the inner tube sliding sliding up and down.

Bilyo, thanks for the recommendation about silver soldering. That would work, but the expense for the materials would cost more than a new stand. On the plus side, I would have enough for many future projects, and the chance to learn a new skill.

Bolting on a piece of steel would probably work, and I might end up trying that if needed. But I can accomplish the same thing using a piece of strong hardwood and a threaded insert, so that’s what I’ll try first. If the wood isn’t strong enough, I’ll try your idea.

-- Tim

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

1409 posts in 2352 days


#15 posted 07-24-2021 03:22 AM


I’m still here, and thanks again guys for your responses. I got busy and was waiting until I had time to work on this to reply, but don’t want anyone to feel like I abandoned the thread. One thing that’s probably not clear in the photo, the 2 bolts attach the legs to the upper support, and allow the legs to hinge open and closed so the stand can fold flat.

If using those bolts are the best/easiest way to fix it, I would be willing to forgo the folding feature. Or, maybe once you have it apart, you can figure a way to have both. If those bolts remain loose to allow the arms to pivot, there is no reason why they can’t stay that way and still hold the new “plate” in place.

I bought a 3/8” tap to see if I could just clean up the existing 3/8” hole, but it was too far gone to work. There’s not enough thickness for heli coils, but that’s great to know for the future. T-nuts won’t work in this situation, because they would interfere with the inner tube sliding sliding up and down.

There are two layers of steel there. Perhaps that is enough to drill out the original hole and re-thread for the next larger size bolt.

Bilyo, thanks for the recommendation about silver soldering. That would work, but the expense for the materials would cost more than a new stand. On the plus side, I would have enough for many future projects, and the chance to learn a new skill.

On Ebay, do a search for “56% silver solder”. There will be many pages. Scroll through and you will find small quantities for under $10 that will be sufficient to do what you need. You are correct. You will also have some left over for future similar repairs if needed. I have used this method to repair several broken band saw blades among other things. It is not much different than soft soldering. You just use a little hotter temps.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8776 posts in 3448 days


#16 posted 07-24-2021 03:28 AM

You gotta know someone with a welder… ARC, Mig, Tig, doesn’t matter which. Just have them run a bead around the inside of the hole and then re-tap with your new thread tap. Quick, cheap and simple.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Fotodog's profile

Fotodog

84 posts in 1029 days


#17 posted 07-25-2021 02:09 AM

Hey guys, I finally had some time to work on this project, and got it finished in a couple of hours. I’m posting the results here in case someone else has a similar problem and doesn’t have access to a welder.

I cut a 1” thick piece of hard maple to size on my bandsaw and rounded the edges to match the existing metal profile. I then marked the position of the holes that attach the legs to the frame and drilled those out in the wood, large enough for a 5/16” bolt to pass through. The wood was temporarily bolted to the frame to drill a 1/2” hole through both pieces.

I then removed the wood and installed a 3/8” threaded insert using the drill press method: thread the insert onto a 3/8” bolt, mount that into the drill press, and screw in the insert by rotating the chuck by hand. This insures the insert goes in square. I was planning on using epoxy when installing the insert, but the fit is so tight in the hard maple I feel it’s not necessary. I’ll do that down the road if needed.

I reinstalled the legs using new bolts that are long enough to account for the wood. A couple of coats of paint, a new knob, and it works great! Total cost about $4.00.

-- Tim

View cracknpop's profile

cracknpop

522 posts in 3598 days


#18 posted 07-25-2021 02:29 AM

Looks good Tim. Let us know how it holds up.

Perhaps the simplest fix would be a small C-clamp to the upper shaft, keeping it from sliding down through the A-frame support section.

-- Rick - I know I am not perfect, but I will keep pressing on toward the goal of becoming all I am called to be.

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

8283 posts in 3453 days


#19 posted 07-25-2021 03:16 AM

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

1409 posts in 2352 days


#20 posted 07-25-2021 01:49 PM

Good job. It looks like it was originally designed that way. Since there is not a lot of torque required, it should last for ever.

View SMP's profile

SMP

4850 posts in 1155 days


#21 posted 07-25-2021 02:31 PM

looks great! he definitely looks better with the nose than without. reminds me of this guy from Ice Age:

View Fotodog's profile

Fotodog

84 posts in 1029 days


#22 posted 07-25-2021 02:56 PM

LOL, thanks. He was my inspiration.

-- Tim

View darthford's profile

darthford

778 posts in 3173 days


#23 posted 07-25-2021 03:16 PM

That frame looks like steel to me given those welds. Lets assume that’s the case, you have a couple options here if you lack a welder.

1. See those spiked t nuts in the post above, there’s a version with 3 screw holes so you could drill and tap the three small holes, screw this T nut on. Both my local hardware stores carry these, also Rockler.

2. Solder a nut on. I recently soldered some steel together, it worked out great. This is a suction port for a cyclone collection barrel. The material is so thin I dared not try to weld it with my pitiful welding skills. So I soldered it. Clean the area and wipe with acetone, brush on some flux, fire up the propane torch and presto. I was surprised how easy it was.

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