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View AlaskaGuy's profile

Recommendations for finish please.

by AlaskaGuy
posted 03-01-2021 02:25 AM


16 replies so far

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

1767 posts in 1264 days


#1 posted 03-01-2021 03:59 AM

I’m an oil based guy, but I have read good things on Sayerlack, which Sherwin Williams owns.

Hydroplus is the product I think you want. Specs are on SW website.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4452 posts in 2579 days


#2 posted 03-01-2021 06:12 PM

Nice looking project AJ!

Wow, didn’t realize how hard it was to find wood finishes in Alaska, till I started looking?

General Finishes web site claims Anchorage Remade sells their products? If you can find the WB Poly or HP Acrylic at that location, they are both OK WW WB finishes. Not durable enough for table top, but work fine for furniture that is mostly looked at. Most of Enduro products add some color, which don’t want. Used GF HP acrylic and Enduro for drawer boxes until BORG Varathane WB poly become available much cheaper. The BORG Varathane WB poly for floors is clear and has clear aluminum oxide fillers to make it extra tough.

Have spray some SW Slayerlock WB poly, but only twice. Not fan of it, as there are better finishes available, for less money too. Sprays best with turbine HVLP sprayer due temp sensitive viscosity, and high flow required for proper atomization. Using a standard gravity HVLP gun had a very narrow operating range. Is also an older generation of WB poly licensed from Renner in Italy. The SW Slayerlack water based poly wants to lay down heavy, and typically creates a thick film coating. Two coats and it looked like plastic wrapped around the cabinets I was spraying. YMMV?

While not water based, one option would be nitro cellulose lacquer. It is water white, easy to spray, dries fast, and low cost. Can typically buy Deft brand clear lacquer on PPG stores. I see you have a PPG industrial store in Anchorage? Deft also offers a WB acrylic polyurethane, but have never used it.
Mohawk sells it’s Nitro lacquer via some Finishmaster (automotive finishing) stores too.

Checking out some of various wood coating mfg, and beyond SW, PPG, GF and Mohawk; I don’t see anyone selling ‘furniture grade’ wood coatings from usual folks like Chemcraft, ML Campbell, Gemini, Renner, or Akzo Nobel brands in Alaska?
If cost is no concern, can always use Automotive clear coat compatible with plastic bumpers. The plastics in sun/rain expand and contract like wood keep inside home. There are some decent WB clear coatings available that work on wood, but WB clear tend to run $200-$400 gallon. Finishmaster, PPG, SW, and even NAPA or O-Reilly sell these materials in random stores. Finishmaster carries many Axalta finishes. Including the old Imron solvent based 2K poly clear used on cars/furniture in 60-70’s. It is not so popular these days as folks spraying it had respiratory issues due isocyanates, and learned you need full hazmat suit and outside breathing air to apply it? Axalta has newer WB clear coatings, if you can afford them. One of their ‘glamor’ WB poly clear coats lists for $900/gallon. :(

Best luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

1767 posts in 1264 days


#3 posted 03-01-2021 09:50 PM

NC Lacquer is water white?

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4452 posts in 2579 days


#4 posted 03-02-2021 01:21 AM


NC Lacquer is water white? – CWWoodworking
They can be as sprayed, depends on brand? Deft is one of the clearest NC blends.

Better suggestion is Cellulose Acetate Butyrate (CAB) as water white lacquer that stays clear. SW has a good solvent based CAB lacquer, with decent solids that sprays easily.

Apologies for omission, Was focusing on WB, and too busy trying to find sources in Alaska. :(

Cheers!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

1767 posts in 1264 days


#5 posted 03-02-2021 01:28 AM

NC Lacquer is water white? – CWWoodworking They can be as sprayed, depends on brand? Deft is one of the clearest NC blends.

Better suggestion is Cellulose Acetate Butyrate (CAB) as water white lacquer that stays clear. SW has a good solvent based CAB lacquer, with decent solids that sprays easily.

Apologies for omission, Was focusing on WB, and too busy trying to find sources in Alaska. :(

Cheers!

- CaptainKlutz

I might be wrong, but my understanding of nitrocellulose is that it ambers period.

AG, if you decide to go solvent based, I’d just step up to Sherwin Williams water white conversion varnish. It sprays great with great durability. And with a smaller project like yours, you don’t have to worry about pot life.

Good luck.

Edit-nice cabinet btw.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6573 posts in 3394 days


#6 posted 03-02-2021 03:18 AM

Thanks for the help/suggestions. Yes get finishing products can be a hassle for us small use guys in Alaska. In the past I have ordered and use both General finishes, Target coating, Fuhr International and something called Wood Pride by ICS Paints. All of them have been OK. For this small 3 cabinet job I don’t want to order it and pay the outrageous shipping chargers to Alaska.

Unfortunately my shop is not setup to spray solvent base lacquers safely. It would solve some problems if it were. At this stage of the game that’s not going to happen.

I have bought General Finishes at Anchorage Remade before. I call them twice today only get a recording to leave a message, and they would call me back, they haven’t.

I talk to another paint store today. They are recommending I try Old Master Armor. At this point I think I’m going to give it a try. There is an optional Part B Hardener for it, but I don’t think I need it for these cabinet. I’ll be spraying with an HVLP Conversion gravity feed gun.

Link to product

https://myoldmasters.com/documents/old-masters-masters-armor-info-sheet

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View LeeRoyMan's profile

LeeRoyMan

1742 posts in 812 days


#7 posted 03-02-2021 03:45 AM

You said you have a SW. What about their Kem Aqua
I’ve never used it but you could try it and give us a review

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6573 posts in 3394 days


#8 posted 03-02-2021 04:09 AM



You said you have a SW. What about their Kem Aqua
I ve never used it but you could try it and give us a review

- LeeRoyMan


No need to wait for a review.

https://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/finishing.pl?read=799974

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4452 posts in 2579 days


#9 posted 03-02-2021 05:03 AM

AJ

Sent PM regarding the Old Master Armor, as I didn’t cross contaminate this thread.

Best Luck with project.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6573 posts in 3394 days


#10 posted 03-02-2021 06:59 AM


AJ

Sent PM regarding the Old Master Armor, as I didn t cross contaminate this thread.

Best Luck with project.

- CaptainKlutz


Thanks for the heads-up. The notification area is so small I often miss them.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6573 posts in 3394 days


#11 posted 03-02-2021 09:41 PM

Well I finally made contact with the people in Anchorage who has General Finishes. They have the High Performance Polyurethane Water Based Topcoat in stock. And then there’s the Old Masters Armor that’s in stock in Anchorage Also. So I think I’m down to those two choices for this project.

I used Target Coatings on my Bloodwood kitchen 8 years or so ago, and it’s held up just fine. I checked into ordering that, and It is 84.00 for a gallon and 62.00 shipping charges. Not doing that for this project.

I’m leaning towards the General finishes HP because I have use it before and is easy to get. I know how it sprays etc. The Old Master is intriguing, but I don’t know if I want to start learning process on a new product at this point. These cabinets will not see a lot of hard use, so I think the GF will be OK but the finial choice it yet to be made.

I especially what to thank CaptainKlutz for his behind the seen scenes private messaging help he took the time to help me.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

1767 posts in 1264 days


#12 posted 03-03-2021 12:33 AM

Is old masters getting into higher end finishes? I always thought of them kinda like minwax only a little nicer.

Then my finish supplier, who carries chemcraft, recommended a varnish for table tops from old masters. Now this water based finish.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4452 posts in 2579 days


#13 posted 03-03-2021 12:59 PM

Is old masters getting into higher end finishes? – CWWoodworking
IMHO – Old Masters is ‘strange’ company.

They have offered professional coating line for few years, but have not seen any folks carrying it. It is on the website, but not obvious unless you are looking for it. The product line is sparse compare to other common OEM names. Only OM product I have used is gel stains for glazing to color matching existing stuff.

Old Masters is basically a marketing company with a small warehouse.
If you dig into business registrations, will find OM is privately held by same folks that own Diamond Vogel (DV) Industrial coatings in same small IA town. If you surf over to the DV web site, will find OM coatings listed as part of DV, but not the other way around? DV has a lot of ‘disconnected’ product lines. The bought VanSickle, which used to be big farm/implement paint mfg in Midwest.

As I told AJ via PM; OldMasters Armor coating appears to be similar to latest generation of high solids WB acrylic modified polyurethane’s that are popular in Europe markets. The DV website even mentions use of newest European polymers. Curious to hear what others say about spraying it?

Veering off your question for moment;
Was involved in polymers industry professionally for couple decades before retirement, and have been waiting for newest generation of EU WB wood coatings to be sold in US.
Renner in Italy has been big innovator in WB polymers/coatings. They created and mfg the Slayerlack WB coating line that Sherwin Williams sold in US for years. SW bought out Slayerlack entirely in 2017. Renner then opened US division, and has started selling their newest materials direct. Sort of putting SW Slayerlack WB products a generation behind. Have used a couple gallons of Renner 851/1321 WB 2K poly, and the stuff is the most durable WB I have seen. Just as durable, if not more durable; than solvent conversion varnish or 2K Polyurethanes. If anyone is looking for super durable WB polyurethane to tables, Renner has the best solution I have seen.

Cheers!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6573 posts in 3394 days


#14 posted 03-03-2021 04:50 PM

There are at least 2 place in Anchorage that carry Old Master’s products. Rodda Paint Co. – Anchorage is where I found the Old masters Armor. The other place, Curtis & Campbell in Anchorage has carried it for some time. Back in 2011 when doing the Bloodwood kitchen I bought Old masters stain from them. The stain instead of being water thin was more like a pea soup. I used that stain to make some mock bloodwood .

The small board is the old masterCrimson Fire stain

This is what I use it for.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

1767 posts in 1264 days


#15 posted 03-03-2021 05:26 PM


Is old masters getting into higher end finishes? – CWWoodworking IMHO – Old Masters is strange company.

They have offered professional coating line for few years, but have not seen any folks carrying it. It is on the website, but not obvious unless you are looking for it. The product line is sparse compare to other common OEM names. Only OM product I have used is gel stains for glazing to color matching existing stuff.

Old Masters is basically a marketing company with a small warehouse.
If you dig into business registrations, will find OM is privately held by same folks that own Diamond Vogel (DV) Industrial coatings in same small IA town. If you surf over to the DV web site, will find OM coatings listed as part of DV, but not the other way around? DV has a lot of disconnected product lines. The bought VanSickle, which used to be big farm/implement paint mfg in Midwest.

As I told AJ via PM; OldMasters Armor coating appears to be similar to latest generation of high solids WB acrylic modified polyurethane s that are popular in Europe markets. The DV website even mentions use of newest European polymers. Curious to hear what others say about spraying it?

Veering off your question for moment;
Was involved in polymers industry professionally for couple decades before retirement, and have been waiting for newest generation of EU WB wood coatings to be sold in US.
Renner in Italy has been big innovator in WB polymers/coatings. They created and mfg the Slayerlack WB coating line that Sherwin Williams sold in US for years. SW bought out Slayerlack entirely in 2017. Renner then opened US division, and has started selling their newest materials direct. Sort of putting SW Slayerlack WB products a generation behind. Have used a couple gallons of Renner 851/1321 WB 2K poly, and the stuff is the most durable WB I have seen. Just as durable, if not more durable; than solvent conversion varnish or 2K Polyurethanes. If anyone is looking for super durable WB polyurethane to tables, Renner has the best solution I have seen.

Cheers!

- CaptainKlutz

Thanks for the info. I doubt I’ll switch from my standard precat, but always like to learn stuff.

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

1767 posts in 1264 days


#16 posted 03-03-2021 05:28 PM



There are at least 2 place in Anchorage that carry Old Master s products. Rodda Paint Co. – Anchorage is where I found the Old masters Armor. The other place, Curtis & Campbell in Anchorage has carried it for some time. Back in 2011 when doing the Bloodwood kitchen I bought Old masters stain from them. The stain instead of being water thin was more like a pea soup. I used that stain to make some mock bloodwood .

The small board is the old masterCrimson Fire stain

This is what I use it for.

- AlaskaGuy

I’ve used there stain before too. Your description of pea soup is spot on. Lol. I only used 1 color but the workability and color were good. Dry time prevented me from using it further.

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