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All Replies on Is there a jig or a way to bring the studs of a wall frame in the same plane (prep for tiling)?

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Is there a jig or a way to bring the studs of a wall frame in the same plane (prep for tiling)?

by MiniMe
posted 11-27-2020 05:54 PM


31 replies so far

View Loren's profile

Loren

11029 posts in 4660 days


#1 posted 11-27-2020 06:04 PM

I’ve used levels and string wound around nails to figure out that sort of thing. If you have a 4 ft level that might be a good one to use. You’d be using it both to assess deviations from plumb but also straightness in the studs. You don’t need everything plumb but you do need to find the high spots.

You can also shim the corners until the diagonal strings touch in the middle. Then shim from there based on those corners being in the same plane. This may be the more sensible approach than planing the studs down.

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MiniMe

421 posts in 1064 days


#2 posted 11-27-2020 06:10 PM

I have a laser level as well …I tried to use that but it is difficult to have a reference and to compare (the light will hit one of the studs and it will stop there)
I have a 8’ level and that tells me that one of the studs ruins everything ( I change that stud once but with no sensible improvement)

I was thinking about a jig that would allow me to slide a tool up and down and shave the surplus wood)
Edit:like this

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Loren

11029 posts in 4660 days


#3 posted 11-27-2020 06:17 PM

ah. Screw wood rails to the side of the stud and using a template guide ring use a router to remove the material to the depth you want. Whatever is left over can be removed with a chisel.

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MiniMe

421 posts in 1064 days


#4 posted 11-27-2020 09:40 PM

I think this is easier said than done.
I would need to make sure I set the router (or the guides) at the same distance from the wall every time
I think I will have to go with the usual, straight edge and a hand plane (or electric plane set to very small depth)

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bold1

354 posts in 2860 days


#5 posted 11-27-2020 09:46 PM

Hang your cement board. Then mortar the wall and straight edge the mortar. All dips will be filled in. Same as rough plastering a wall. Some of the older plasterer/tile men would call it Darbying.

View Robert's profile

Robert

4451 posts in 2493 days


#6 posted 11-27-2020 10:17 PM

What’s on the other side of the wall?

A carpenters way to do this is cut a notch in the stud and either shim (if bowed in) or push it in and toe nail it.

However, you risk damaging the wall material on the other side.

So do what bold1 said. Tilers commonly float out uneven walls and floors.

Your other option is sister nailers on to the studs and bring it out level.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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MiniMe

421 posts in 1064 days


#7 posted 11-27-2020 10:52 PM



What s on the other side of the wall?

A carpenters way to do this is cut a notch in the stud and either shim (if bowed in) or push it in and toe nail it.

However, you risk damaging the wall material on the other side.

So do what bold1 said. Tilers commonly float out uneven walls and floors.

Your other option is sister nailers on to the studs and bring it out level.

- Robert


I have read about all these methods but I don’t think they will work for this particular situation
If I run a straight edge (8’ level) across the studs I am seeing different situations in different areas
the above will fix a caved (C shape) stud but not one ore more that have an S profile

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corelz125

2383 posts in 1989 days


#8 posted 11-28-2020 01:11 AM

If you sister the studs like Robert said you just find the stud that sticks out the most and go from there. The easiest way is to just add more thinset where the wall is off. The extra thinset fills the gap where the stud is bowed. Not many walls are straight and flat when they get tiled.

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tomsteve

1150 posts in 2232 days


#9 posted 11-28-2020 02:57 AM

when walls have to be that accurate, laminated veneer studs.

View xedos's profile

xedos

214 posts in 313 days


#10 posted 11-28-2020 03:44 AM


What s on the other side of the wall?

A carpenters way to do this is cut a notch in the stud and either shim (if bowed in) or push it in and toe nail it.

However, you risk damaging the wall material on the other side.

So do what bold1 said. Tilers commonly float out uneven walls and floors.

Your other option is sister nailers on to the studs and bring it out level.

- Robert

I have read about all these methods but I don t think they will work for this particular situation
If I run a straight edge (8 level) across the studs I am seeing different situations in different areas
the above will fix a caved (C shape) stud but not one ore more that have an S profile

- MiniMe

Robert’s advise on sistering will absolutely work.

Two strings crossed in an “x” will give you a better picture of what’s going on over a broader area.

LVL studs are well worth their cost for tiled walls. Especially mosaic tile.

DO NOT use thinset as to fill in gaps, depressions ect. No thinset is rated or warrantied for such purpose.

If you can still find a tile setter that does mud work , you wouldn’t have to do anything except make the call. And pay. He’ll make the wall flat and plumb regardless of how knarly your studs. Hard to find those guys these days though.

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corelz125

2383 posts in 1989 days


#11 posted 11-28-2020 04:24 AM

I have 16”×16”×1/2” tiles in my bathroom I know there isn’t any wall in my house that’s within a 1/16”. Laticrete has products that can go from 3/32” to 3/4” for a thick bed wall.

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tomd

2222 posts in 4783 days


#12 posted 11-28-2020 05:21 AM

Put up your cement board then level it with the thin set.

-- Tom D

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Craftsman on the lake

3711 posts in 4450 days


#13 posted 11-28-2020 06:03 AM

The way I’ve done it.. I put a string across the studs, usually if there’s a protruding one it’s at the midpoint. Then use a sharp axe and tap it like a chisel down the stud until they’re in line with each other.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View MiniMe's profile

MiniMe

421 posts in 1064 days


#14 posted 11-28-2020 02:10 PM

OK I did not think about crossing two wires along the wall to see what is going on
I will try that on top of using the level
Agree, I do not trust the thin set for this task
Re: tilers who could do it- I don’t have that budget. If someone charges more than I make and I can learn that think then it is the time to learn a new skill. I do not need to be an expert in tiling but I could certainly read and learn to do what I need in my case …

View northwoodsman's profile (online now)

northwoodsman

510 posts in 4759 days


#15 posted 11-28-2020 03:39 PM

A straight edge or a laser. Don’t think that you need to plane all the studs to a low point, use shims in those areas. Don’t overthink this. I can understand that 1/16” is important on a floor but their won’t be any weight or pressure on a wall. You have some wiggle room with the bonding agent, it may be thicker in some areas and thinner in others, the cement board should provide a very flat surface.

-- NorthWoodsMan

View Mike's profile

Mike

213 posts in 1712 days


#16 posted 11-28-2020 04:59 PM

1) Jack up ceiling and supporting floor.
2) Remove any electrical or plumbing in old wall.
3) Remove old wall.
4) Design new wall in Fusion 360, including backer blocks, plumbing cut-outs, wire chases. Don’t forget local building codes.
5) Machine all components for new wall using 4’ x 8’ CNC.
6) Preassemble new wall on very, very large precision granite surface plate.
7) Run plumbing, electrical. Cover with cementitious backer board.
8) Tile, grout, and seal wall.
9) Attach one end of chain to back of wall, other end to a Ford F-350.
10) Rev up Ford, pop clutch.
11) Once wall is in place, complete plumbing and wiring connections.

-- Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired. --Jonathan Swift (1721)

View MiniMe's profile

MiniMe

421 posts in 1064 days


#17 posted 11-28-2020 06:20 PM


1) Jack up ceiling and supporting floor.
2) Remove any electrical or plumbing in old wall.
3) Remove old wall.
4) Design new wall in Fusion 360, including backer blocks, plumbing cut-outs, wire chases. Don t forget local building codes.
5) Machine all components for new wall using 4 x 8 CNC.
6) Preassemble new wall on very, very large precision granite surface plate.
7) Run plumbing, electrical. Cover with cementitious backer board.
8) Tile, grout, and seal wall.
9) Attach one end of chain to back of wall, other end to a Ford F-350.
10) Rev up Ford, pop clutch.
11) Once wall is in place, complete plumbing and wiring connections.

- Mike


View MiniMe's profile

MiniMe

421 posts in 1064 days


#18 posted 11-28-2020 06:23 PM

I do have one of these but it is not heling a lot
https://www.amazon.ca/Self-Leveling-Laser-Level-Selectable-360%C2%B0Magnetic/dp/B0793M6Z37/
I will see later on this weekend


A straight edge or a laser. Don t think that you need to plane all the studs to a low point, use shims in those areas. Don t overthink this. I can understand that 1/16” is important on a floor but their won t be any weight or pressure on a wall. You have some wiggle room with the bonding agent, it may be thicker in some areas and thinner in others, the cement board should provide a very flat surface.

- northwoodsman


View seakuv's profile

seakuv

27 posts in 667 days


#19 posted 11-28-2020 07:08 PM

As Northwoodsman said, “Don’t overthink it.” This is construction, not woodworking. The tolerances are larger. If you’re within an 1/8” of planar across the studs, you’ll be fine by the time you get the cementboard (or better yet, cementboard or sheetrock and Schluter’s Kerdi system), and a layer of thinset to mount the tiles on. You should be able to create a nice, smooth, flat tiled wall.

Truth be told, I always have more trouble with thickness variation when bedding the tiles in the thinset than with variation from the studs unless they were WAY out of plane. Knock down the big stuff, shim the low areas and you should be good to go.

-- DaveS, Montana

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Newbie17

168 posts in 1473 days


#20 posted 11-28-2020 08:15 PM

Wet shim the wall. Skip to 17 minutes’ish.
https://youtu.be/Fls1asNV9ug

View AMZ's profile

AMZ

289 posts in 402 days


#21 posted 11-28-2020 08:30 PM

How much are you out now? If, when using lines & blocks, you are within 1/8”, it is highly probably you will not get it any better with fussing by trimming studs. If you really feel the need to do something, go get furring strips, using line blocks and pad the new furring out to what you feel is acceptable.

View xedos's profile

xedos

214 posts in 313 days


#22 posted 11-29-2020 04:41 AM



Put up your cement board then level it with the thin set.

- tomd

Please, DO NOT , do that .

Thinset is not the material for “ leveling” a wall.

View SMP's profile (online now)

SMP

3451 posts in 918 days


#23 posted 11-29-2020 04:58 AM

A Long level, and cardboard furring strips/shims. These are nice cause you can use 1 layer or stack them where needed to “fine tune”.
https://www.whitecap.com/112-x-45-cardboard-furring-strip-60208#M700180-27811248FS

A video may show how to use them(first video that came up but basic premise)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VIVLnhgJafY

View MiniMe's profile

MiniMe

421 posts in 1064 days


#24 posted 11-29-2020 06:09 AM



A Long level, and cardboard furring strips/shims. These are nice cause you can use 1 layer or stack them where needed to “fine tune”.
https://www.whitecap.com/112-x-45-cardboard-furring-strip-60208#M700180-27811248FS

- SMP

Nothing like these in Canada (Toronto or Greater Toronto Area)

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MiniMe

421 posts in 1064 days


#25 posted 11-29-2020 06:11 AM

I run into another problem
I have been designing the heck out of this but I never considered this issue. In the below picture I need to add 1.5” ABS pipe to build a drain and a dry vent (the green horizontal segments) What is the usual practice for this? How does one install the pipe when the studs are in place and moreover the wall to the left has cabinets on the other side :))? (the studs are 16” apart)
Just to be clear both walls have the framing competed there is no open end for the wall where the sink will be located. For the other wall I can probably drill a hole in the stud that is at the right as that side is facing an open space but it might not be long enough (not as long as the pipe segment that I want in there.

Do I have to use small segments and couplers ?

View controlfreak's profile

controlfreak

1791 posts in 614 days


#26 posted 11-29-2020 12:38 PM

I would think that the existing would already have a vent stack in place. You may be able to verify buy looking in the attic. The sink if new you be able to use a one way vent inside the cabinet to avoid the need to it’s related venting. I did this when I moved my kitchen and the sink ended up landed right in front of what was a fireplace before.
https://www.amazon.com/Studor-20341-Mini-Vent-Adapter-Connection/dp/B00FQEX4UI/ref=sr16?crid=2JRKVDPNI424A&dchild=1&keywords=plumbing+vent+valve&qid=1606653436&sprefix=plumbing+vent%2Caps%2C329&sr=8-6

View AMZ's profile

AMZ

289 posts in 402 days


#27 posted 11-29-2020 02:39 PM



I would think that the existing would already have a vent stack in place. You may be able to verify buy looking in the attic. The sink if new you be able to use a one way vent inside the cabinet to avoid the need to it s related venting. I did this when I moved my kitchen and the sink ended up landed right in front of what was a fireplace before.
https://www.amazon.com/Studor-20341-Mini-Vent-Adapter-Connection/dp/B00FQEX4UI/ref=sr16?crid=2JRKVDPNI424A&dchild=1&keywords=plumbing+vent+valve&qid=1606653436&sprefix=plumbing+vent%2Caps%2C329&sr=8-6

- controlfreak

This will work(I’ve done this, with excellent results), but, you might want to check with local codes to determine if this is acceptable. To your question, yes you can splice pipes, using a coupler. You might just want to have a plumber come in to rough out your plumbing.

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MiniMe

421 posts in 1064 days


#28 posted 11-29-2020 02:48 PM

No existing vent in that area, poor quality work. The sink used to be near the yellow line , on that wall. There is the main stack is there as well and the toilet.
I could do something like this for the vent altough I do not see the advantages over using couplers
The drain problem for the sink remains the same

View seakuv's profile

seakuv

27 posts in 667 days


#29 posted 11-30-2020 12:11 AM

Check your codes – and stud size 2×4 vs 2×6 – you may be able to notch your studs to install the pipe and then cover the pipe and reinforce the notched stud with a specialized notch cover plate that both protects the pipe and reinforces the stud.

-- DaveS, Montana

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MiniMe

421 posts in 1064 days


#30 posted 11-30-2020 12:31 AM

Wow -that is what I needed! thank you
I am not going to notch the studs
for one wall I was able to put everything in as shown (I needed an sanitary T to connect the drain of a furnace condense pump) but for the wall where the sink is I will have a glass fixed panel that needs solid support so eliminating cuts or notches is vital since the wall has cabinets on the other side
Your suggestion makes me feel safer about drilling those holes
Here is where I am. It seems that the purple vent is not needed since distance to the sink is 4’
The fixed glass panel will be anchored like in the second picture

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kimballd

36 posts in 2777 days


#31 posted 12-10-2020 07:35 PM

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