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View rossn's profile

My Dust collection options - which is best?

by rossn
posted 09-25-2020 12:14 AM


31 replies so far

View LittleBlackDuck's profile

LittleBlackDuck

5953 posts in 1734 days


#1 posted 09-25-2020 01:28 AM

No matter what you buy, I totally recommend you front end any decision with a Dust Deputy... Will help any cheap sucker, suck with the best (that don’t DD).

-- If your first cut is too short... Take the second cut from the longer end... LBD

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

4949 posts in 2901 days


#2 posted 09-25-2020 01:44 AM

A drum sander is really tough on a dust collector because of the fine dust. You need a cyclone or will clog filters fast.

I think you need a 3 hp Dust collector for that job.

View rossn's profile

rossn

72 posts in 707 days


#3 posted 09-25-2020 03:25 AM

Thanks, guys. Don’t think I’ll be buying a 3hp for just this one project; I need to see if I can get by with something less powerful.

I do see a dust deputy locally on craigslist – the size for a shop vac. Is there a chance I could get by with a dust deputy and a shop vac? that guy also has a cyclone, though i don’t imagine you use two together.

View pottz's profile

pottz

12240 posts in 1897 days


#4 posted 09-25-2020 04:20 AM

forget the shop vac it will not do what you need,their for suction you need volume of air on a sander like that.if your tight on budget you could try the HF but in my opinion a cheap dust collector that needs a lot of upgrades to be a real dc.

-- working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

1177 posts in 824 days


#5 posted 09-25-2020 05:03 AM

View LittleBlackDuck's profile

LittleBlackDuck

5953 posts in 1734 days


#6 posted 09-25-2020 05:10 AM


forget the shop vac it will not do what you need,their for suction you need volume of air on a sander like that.if your tight on budget you could try the HF but in my opinion a cheap dust collector that needs a lot of upgrades to be a real dc.

- pottz


Can’t disagree with that… Once you start working to a limited (as opposed to a limiting) budget, it’s just gonna cost more and more for upgrades and workarounds.

Either way, for practicality, I will not suggest the cheapest… when it comes to shop-vacs (colloquially) a dust deputy is your best friend and for a non-cyclone dust extractor, a super dust deputy should be considered.


... Don t think I ll be buying a 3hp for just this one project…
- rossn

The chances of a “single use” is nearly as far fetched as marrying only once… does happen, but don’t expect it.

-- If your first cut is too short... Take the second cut from the longer end... LBD

View rossn's profile

rossn

72 posts in 707 days


#7 posted 09-25-2020 06:00 AM

I hear you all, but this is a very large remodel project, and all the thousands of dollars have added up to tens of thousands of dollars over budget – so I have to be careful. Prepping 4500 lf of siding is a tiny piece of the whole multi-year effort.

I do have an 800cfm unit for scrubbing air, but I’ll be outside, where I just need a respirator.

Many thanks for your guidance and thoughts.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6204 posts in 3222 days


#8 posted 09-25-2020 06:08 AM

Which drum sander do you have. Does the user manual have any guide line for dust collection?

I have a 15 inch wide belt sander. I have a 1200 cfm dust collector with a pleated filter that sits on top. I recently ran a bunch of old used 2×6 cedar decking from when I replaced my deck. The dust collector has 25 foot 6 in flexible duct/hose connected straight to the sander. While it was enough I’m glad my collector wasn’t any smaller. When I was done there was good coating of dust inside the sander and I had to rap on the filter now and then to know the fine dust off. I only ran a couple hundred lineal feet or so.

No way of a shop vac.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

4949 posts in 2901 days


#9 posted 09-25-2020 11:12 AM

I think you will have ptoblems. Cedar is sticky and the dust adheres to everything. If you do not have a strong enough dust collector, you will clog the sand paper.

This is a very difficult job.

View Robert's profile

Robert

4137 posts in 2394 days


#10 posted 09-25-2020 11:46 AM

I think more depends on the sander than the collector. I agree on filters clogging. . Exhausting outside with or without a cyclone is your best option.

I am using a 1.5HP Jet blower on a Super DD, exhausted outside. On a Supermax sander there is zero dust, that said with the dust control built into the sander I am confident even a 1HP collector would do the job.

My suggestion is a single drum a sander b/c a dual drum is harder to collect. if you don’t have a big need for a collector, a 1 HP wall mount shoukdl do the job and can be repurposed later for miter saw collecting or even a garage vac.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View rustynails's profile

rustynails

911 posts in 3442 days


#11 posted 09-25-2020 12:07 PM

I had a 5 hp cyclone for my 38’’ Woodmaster drum sander and it worked good. Years ago I had a 16/32 and tryed a shop vac and it did not work. Like stated do it right or pay more in the long run.

View rossn's profile

rossn

72 posts in 707 days


#12 posted 09-25-2020 12:54 PM

Thanks guys. I get the challenges, just not going to go spend $500 or $1000 on dust collection. What this does tell me is that I will be much better off looking at the used 2HP models instead of the smaller ones, and good to hear your experiences with a Supermax, Robert. That is valuable to know.

View rossn's profile

rossn

72 posts in 707 days


#13 posted 09-25-2020 12:58 PM

Will the trash can lid-style dust separators add much benefit for this type of dust? I see one locally for $10.

Also, will I have more or less issues with 80 vs 120 grit for either dust removal or dust going through a standard dust collector (I think most I would by off CL would have a 5 micron bag)? This wood is going on a soffit, so you aren’t seeing it up close, and it doesn’t need to be finely finished.

View Russell Hayes's profile

Russell Hayes

44 posts in 91 days


#14 posted 09-25-2020 01:02 PM

Working outside with the drum sander? Get the $100 rikon. Hook it up with as short a hose as practical. Remove the bag and point it away from where your working. Wear a respirator.

It will pull the dust off the drum and blow it generally away from you. Your neighbors already hate you for doing a multiyear renovation.

It will still be worth $100 when your job is done.

-- Have a hobby? You should have a business.

View 4wood's profile

4wood

66 posts in 867 days


#15 posted 09-25-2020 01:04 PM

I have a 16-32 Jet drum sander and a planer and I use a Harbor Freight 2 HP with a home made trash can cyclone lid on a 55 gallon cardboard drum and it works very well. I copied this Woodriver cover using plywood and a 4” PVC elbow. Like you I got involved with a large job about eight years ago and had to make something quickly. The local store did not have a cyclone lid in stock at the time. I am still using that set-up, but it is not perfect, but good enough inside my warehouse. I have a friend that uses the cyclone lid and the 2 HP Harbor Freight in his business and it also works very well. Here is a link to the cyclone lid at Woodcraft for $33.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/mini-dust-collection-separator

If your dust collection is not sufficient, dust will pack into the sandpaper and the board and you will instantly have a burnt line on the surface of your board. Usually the sandpaper cleaning stick will NOT clean it all off, but I highly suggest getting a couple of them and clean your drum often. I could not find this on the Woodcraft website.

https://www.amazon.com/sandpaper-cleaning-stick/s?k=sandpaper+cleaning+stick

It is going to take you a while to learn about your machine. Make a sample including the finish and I think you will be able to save yourself some time.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6204 posts in 3222 days


#16 posted 09-25-2020 01:06 PM



Thanks guys. I get the challenges, just not going to go spend $500 or $1000 on dust collection. What this does tell me is that I will be much better off looking at the used 2HP models instead of the smaller ones, and good to hear your experiences with a Supermax, Robert. That is valuable to know.

- rossn

BTW both my sander and dust collector have 7.5 HP motors.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6204 posts in 3222 days


#17 posted 09-25-2020 01:11 PM

BTW. Why do you have 4000 feet of cedar siding to sand? Is it reclaimed, taking off an old finish? Is it roughcut and you want it smooth? How thick wide and long are your pieces.

What drum sand did you get?

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2136 posts in 3706 days


#18 posted 09-25-2020 01:15 PM

From my recent experience, I am using a craftsman shop vac, older model with a mini dust deputy for my 19/38 sander. Sanding 18” wide sycamore, and it does a wonderful job with dc. When I get the duct run, I will connect to my larger dc, but it will get me by till then. And for $70, it was a great temporary solution. If it works for me, it should work for you. The vac filter stays very clean. It clogged quickly w/o the cyclone. Later, I would get a larger dc.

View rossn's profile

rossn

72 posts in 707 days


#19 posted 09-25-2020 01:28 PM

I found a performax 22/44 used (the only thing available). There are two types of ‘siding’. 5/8” x 6” STK western red cedar for the soffits (about 2700 LF) and clear vertical grain fir for the siding on a section of the house (much more expensive).

I am using the ‘smooth, back’ side of the STK for the soffits for a more modern look; the other, rough side is meant to be facing out. There are a lot more issues with the back side than the occasional chalk mark that the vendor mentioned originally. Some may require a little planing first, and some will have to get traded out.

Bigger issue is that these soffits are high and scattered about. Scaffolding will be require for any future staining ($$$$$), so I need to ensure the stain is well applied, which means penetration. Testing a piece of the cedar for water penetration, a sanded section sucked the stain right up, whereas the unsanded section did not. In talking with the guy at the real cedar association, he mentioned to me that cedar suffers grain crush when milled/planed, and due to low sap content, does not experience the same ‘mill glaze’ that many persons report on other lumber (which is what pore-opening ‘cleaners’ that everyone talks about are intended to address’... and that re-planing leads to the same condition and that physical removal through a ‘quick sanding’ is needed… he has a lot of people coming back with failed finishes after 2 years, due to this. Of course, the real cedar guide to installation mentions doing a light scuff sanding with 60 grit paper, and when I attempted that, the stain settled right into those grooves, and it looked pretty bad. Orbital sander has a lot of vibration, and not good for the nerves in my hands. Portable belt sander seemed to work OK, but I thought with this much lumber I’d be better off running it through a machine.

View them700project's profile (online now)

them700project

272 posts in 1931 days


#20 posted 09-25-2020 01:52 PM

I think dust collection can be put on a triangle of cheap/power/clean(For this I would go cheap and powerful)

Do it outside with a respirator and the HF motor/impeller with a super dust deputy mounted on a trash can in front of it. Dont use the filter/bag/seperator part of it and just have the fan pointed away.

total setup should be about 400 with hose. just add trash can

View rossn's profile

rossn

72 posts in 707 days


#21 posted 09-25-2020 02:17 PM

does the super dust deputy work markedly different than the WoodRiver Dust Connection – Mini Dust Collection Separator? There seem to be a lot of separation products available.

lbewjon – good to hear you had some good experiences with the smaller setup. I do think something bigger will do me better, and if I can do something affordable for the project will do so. he other option is literally hooking up 2 shop vacs that are already owned. Not as good, but maybe better than one.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2136 posts in 3706 days


#22 posted 09-25-2020 03:08 PM

Even with 2 vacs, your filters will still clog. You definitely need a cyclone.

View rossn's profile

rossn

72 posts in 707 days


#23 posted 09-25-2020 03:16 PM

Totally understood on that. There is one here on CL I’m waiting to hear back on.

View Russell Hayes's profile

Russell Hayes

44 posts in 91 days


#24 posted 09-25-2020 03:40 PM

Try shop vac with no filter venting outside without dust deputy. I run one in my shop like that with a dust deputy and the exhaust piped out thru the wall for small tools and clean up. I cut the paper off the filter housing so I just have the wire frame to stop anything big from hitting the blades. I don’t think dust off your drum sander will hurt the shop vac fan. What do you have to lose trying, just your one project and you own the shop vac? Might be enough for one narrow board thru at a time.

-- Have a hobby? You should have a business.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2136 posts in 3706 days


#25 posted 09-25-2020 06:29 PM

I think the cyclone will be cheaper than trashing a shop vac.

View Sark's profile

Sark

352 posts in 1273 days


#26 posted 09-26-2020 02:34 PM

Go with HF 2HP, and expect to shake, pound, blow clean or beat those bags every so often…for a one time use, its not that big a deal. How often? No idea, every 30 minutes? Wild guess. Shop vac won’t work. If you can rig up a trash can collector, so much the better, because you won’t need to clean the bags that often.

You’ll also need some flex hose 4” so add that to the budget, and if you get a cyclone separator, then you need to add that to the budget. Something like the dust deputy needs to be mounted…and now you’re spending more time than its worth. My 2 cents worth. The usual discounts apply.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2136 posts in 3706 days


#27 posted 09-26-2020 05:07 PM

The mini dust deputy mounts to a 5 gallon bucket lid. Easy. My craftsman shop vac working with the mini DD does a very good job on the dust from my 19/38 sander, sanding a full 18” piece of lumber. So a decent size shop vac DOES WORK. But not without the cyclone.

View 4wood's profile

4wood

66 posts in 867 days


#28 posted 09-27-2020 01:17 PM

Something to think about. How many hours can a shop vac continuously run compared to a dust collector? You will be working several 8 hour days. Another thing I do when sanding is to mark lines across the boards with white chalk to see what is being sanded.

View farmfromkansas's profile

farmfromkansas

220 posts in 527 days


#29 posted 09-27-2020 02:46 PM

I upgraded from a 2hp to a 3hp after getting a 15” wide belt sander. The 3hp is none too much, and I vent outside.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6204 posts in 3222 days


#30 posted 09-27-2020 03:06 PM


Thanks guys. I get the challenges, just not going to go spend $500 or $1000 on dust collection. What this does tell me is that I will be much better off looking at the used 2HP models instead of the smaller ones, and good to hear your experiences with a Supermax, Robert. That is valuable to know.

- rossn
BTW both my sander and dust collector have 7.5 HP motors.

- AlaskaGuy


CORRECTION ,.........My duct collector is only 3 HP while the sander is 7.5

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Furnone's profile

Furnone

20 posts in 1048 days


#31 posted 09-27-2020 03:21 PM

For a one time job, I would go to your local lumber yard with a wide belt sander and see what they will charge to run your job. I think you may save time and money.

-- I will not lower my quality standards, so up yours!

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