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View nickbatz's profile

Jointer technique help

by nickbatz
posted 01-13-2020 12:26 AM


23 replies so far

View GrantA's profile

GrantA

2901 posts in 2296 days


#1 posted 01-13-2020 12:48 AM

Did you lower the infeed table? Outfeed table flush with knives, all knives set to be flush with Outfeed.
Lower the infeed table a bit and letterrip!

As for can’t a joiner do that, yeah a joiner flattens Wood, not just edges but faces too
Pictures or it didn’t happen!!

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nickbatz

615 posts in 968 days


#2 posted 01-13-2020 01:12 AM

It happened. Will take pix. :)

This beam has four faces (like too many people).

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3424 posts in 2686 days


#3 posted 01-13-2020 03:26 AM

What exactly is the problem Nick. A jointer will make a square edge to a flat face but not two parallel sides.
So it’s not for making wood a consistent thickness.

-- Aj

View nickbatz's profile

nickbatz

615 posts in 968 days


#4 posted 01-13-2020 04:02 AM

I’m just trying to give some wood a shave, Aj. The thickness doesn’t matter.

Will take some pictures tomorrow.

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3424 posts in 2686 days


#5 posted 01-13-2020 04:46 AM

Do you have a good understanding of how to set the outfeed table height?
The obvious part of how a jointer is the infeed determines how much wood the blades are going to scoop away from the wood.
Share a pic of you knives if they have too much projection out of the cutter head you’ll have issues even if they are all set at the same height.
I can help if you can share some pics and info.
I would like to recommend this teacher for using a jointer. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ob3V5SVrqAw&t=333s

-- Aj

View nickbatz's profile

nickbatz

615 posts in 968 days


#6 posted 01-13-2020 08:02 PM

Thanks, yeah, the outfeed is even with the blades.

For sure it’s a technique issue – I’m not shifting the weight properly to the outfeed side. Part of that is that it’s not all that easy, since this is a big hunk of wood rather than a board, and the other part is that I’m just getting the feel of using the jointer.

I guess my real question is whether other people had unpredictable results from a jointer when they first started using them, or I’m just a dope.

That’s a set-up. Please leave it alone.

View SMP's profile

SMP

2691 posts in 794 days


#7 posted 01-13-2020 08:28 PM

Do you have a hand plane? I sometimes will hand plane a piece of wood to get it “flatter” before running through the machines. Especially stuff thats really rough. Firewood-esque wood especially benefits from this. Otherwise you are just chasing your tail.

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nickbatz

615 posts in 968 days


#8 posted 01-13-2020 10:12 PM

I wouldn’t call it firewood-esque or really rough, but if I can’t get the jointer to shave it then I’ll just use a belt sander.

It doesn’t need to be square, it just needs cleaning up before I slice it like a loaf of bread.

I’m going to try lowering the infeed table to see whether that does more of what I want. So far I’ve been pretty conservative about that.

View Jack Lewis's profile

Jack Lewis

576 posts in 1966 days


#9 posted 01-13-2020 11:41 PM

1/8” seems to be a pretty big bite !

-- "PLUMBER'S BUTT! Get over it, everybody has one"

View kyngfish's profile

kyngfish

115 posts in 978 days


#10 posted 01-14-2020 12:28 AM

I JUST got a jointer and I ran into a similar problem with rough cut lumber. I got significantly better results by taking a tiny bit off the face with a planer just to get everything a bit smoother, then running that same face through the jointer, then jointing the edges, then planing the other face.

This was on a 6 inch powermatic 50 with brand new knives and my outfeed and infeed tables and knives adjusted. Not gonna make any claims about my overall skill :)

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3424 posts in 2686 days


#11 posted 01-14-2020 01:55 AM

A 5×5 beam really doesn’t take any special technique. Just push the wood from right to left just the weight should help hold it down.
Unless your knives are really dull or not set right.
I think the belt sander is a great idea.
I wouldn’t want you to get injured the jointer isn’t a machine you want to learn the hard way.

-- Aj

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

6214 posts in 3701 days


#12 posted 01-14-2020 02:19 AM

Using a jointer is 90% setup and 10% technique.

Just don’t expect four square / parallel faces if you’re only using a jointer. A jointer dresses two adjacent surfaces. The planer takes it to S3S.
The tablesaw establishes the fourth surface.

The problem with your post is you didn’t really say what specific problem you’re having.

A 1/8” cut is way too heavy in my opinion. Keep the cuts light. The sound of the motor says a lot. If the RPM is dropping much, it’s too heavy of a cut.

Wax the beds to let the wood slide.

If the wood is bowed, put the concave side down. Otherwise, you’ll spend all your time chasing a flat surface. Then again, since you don’t have a planer, you are likely going to face a situation where the convex side is down. That never works well.

Think about getting a planer. Many benchtop planers will handle 6” material.

Best of luck.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View controlfreak's profile

controlfreak

1303 posts in 490 days


#13 posted 01-14-2020 11:43 AM

I learned the hard way, if you are not using a gauge to set the knives to the thousands of an inch you are probably off. I got a pair off 123 blocks and a Harbor freight dial gauge to set mine. After that it was perfect. When I was eyeballing it no luck.

View nickbatz's profile

nickbatz

615 posts in 968 days


#14 posted 01-14-2020 07:04 PM

“The problem with your post is you didn’t really say what specific problem you’re having.”

I know, I know. The fingers went ahead of the brain.

Again, in this case I’m not trying to get a flat surface, I’m trying to plane off the surface to get at the good stuff underneath. That’s off-label use, but… well, a jointer is basically a downside-up power planer.

“Think about getting a planer. Many benchtop planers will handle 6” material”

I plan to, in fact I was given a gift certificate at Grizzly for Christmas that I’d planned to apply toward one… except the one I wanted is out of stock until April, so I used it for a recipro (which I’m not 100% crazy about – it was too cheap).

By the way, all the planers I’ve seen handle 6” wood.

“I wouldn’t want you to get injured the jointer isn’t a machine you want to learn the hard way.”

Well, I did run a bunch of scraps through it to get the feel. And I’m new to the jointer, but only a little bit of an idiot, not as big a one as you think.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

3743 posts in 2382 days


#15 posted 01-14-2020 08:03 PM

+1 rough lumber on jointer is perplexing at times. :-)

The challenge is the jointer is only cutting a small portion of the cutoff amount from the highest spots; which makes it look like it’s doing nothing for 1st 4-6 passes. You can get same effect jointing with hand plane.

As others mentioned, if you take off the highest spots with another tool first; jointer is more productive.

Finding the high spots, it helps to get personal with the board, IMHO.
Try dragging a card scraper across the surface, and watch for light underneath. You will see spots that need more scraping/planning/sanding for removal. Mark these spots with colored chalk or crayon. Then either remove the highest spots separately, or watch those areas as jointer does the work. You won’t feel as useless as you watch the marked areas slowly disappear after half dozen passes.

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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nickbatz

615 posts in 968 days


#16 posted 01-14-2020 08:05 PM

Thanks CK.

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3424 posts in 2686 days


#17 posted 01-14-2020 08:11 PM

My comment was based on my experience of what I I’ve seen in the wild. Jointers with the wrong knifes, or sticking too far out of the head. I’ve even seen them installed backwards with the bevel forward.
The scariest part of buying a used jointer is when some doesn’t even change them out and relies on the previous owners skill or understanding that the knives are good to go.
I really don’t want anyone to feel any pressure from my suggestion to do something if there’s a chance.
That’s why I asked for a pic of the knives in cutter head.
Good Luck Nick

-- Aj

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

3743 posts in 2382 days


#18 posted 01-14-2020 08:27 PM

Hit post to early:

+1 Setup is critical.
If jointer can not cut a nice even amount from a smooth board, STOP and fix that first.

+1 Removing 1/8” is huge amount if trying to cut full width on most 6” machines.
It might not seem like it on rough wood, but once the high spots are gone; it will create issues.

TBH – There is a learned skill to jointer; where you let the motor RPM/sound tell you when the cut is asking too much of your tool. You don’t want the motor slowing down noticeably. Only experience will teach you what works for your tool.
Examples from my expereince: 2HP on 8” jointer will usually hog off 1/8” full width, but 3/4 HP motor on 6” will struggle with more 1/16”? So lighter cuts are usually better, until you learn you machines limits with wood being worked.

Cheers!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View nickbatz's profile

nickbatz

615 posts in 968 days


#19 posted 01-14-2020 08:53 PM

Thanks again, CK.

Aj, the blades do have a couple of nicks in them – the guy I bought it from told me about that and suggested that I just not worry about that or the fact that they were 1/8” too long so he had to grind them. The second pic is just to show that the outfeed table is lined up with the top.

View nickbatz's profile

nickbatz

615 posts in 968 days


#20 posted 01-14-2020 08:55 PM

I don’t know why pix post here rotated 1/4 turn CCW, but the infeed table is on the top.

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3424 posts in 2686 days


#21 posted 01-14-2020 09:55 PM

Here’s what I see.
Your blades need to be sent out for grinding if they have nicks that deep they are most likely dull.
They also should be 1/8 thick the bevel looks too long. That could be because of the grind angle or the knives are 5/32 thick.
If they bottom out in the knife slots they are too wide.
If they are different lengths they need to be balanced or each weigh the same.
Be careful not the round over you gib bolts if you decide to address the knifes use the a good fitting wrench.

Good Luck

-- Aj

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6133 posts in 3197 days


#22 posted 01-14-2020 10:07 PM

Jointers that are setup perfectly and used with the correct techniques will do all kinds of weird things if the blades are dull.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View nickbatz's profile

nickbatz

615 posts in 968 days


#23 posted 01-14-2020 11:53 PM

Okay, thanks Aj. The machine doesn’t behave like the blades are unbalanced – it purrs along (loudly).

By bottoming out in the slots, do you mean that the slots are angled? I haven’t taken the blades out to look, but I’ll be careful not to strip the bolt heads.

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