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View Karda's profile

plane adjustment

by Karda
posted 01-10-2020 10:33 PM


43 replies so far

View Sylvain's profile

Sylvain

1246 posts in 3579 days


#1 posted 01-11-2020 08:33 PM

Sharpening and Setting the Bench Plane

- be sure that the edge-bevel is lower than 45°, usually 25° to 30°; otherwise the iron will skate on the wood (some relief angle is necessary);
- be sure that the cutting-iron is sharp;
- be sure that the cutting-iron bevel is down and the cap-iron is on top of the cutting-iron ;-)
- verify how far the cap-iron edge is from the cutting-iron edge;
- be sure the depth-adjusting yoke is engaged in the corresponding cap-iron slot otherwise the adjustment will not work.

Moving the frog forward will help.

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#2 posted 01-12-2020 03:42 AM

I moved the frog forward that helped, I can cut with it bit not much, chips get caught under the chip breaket and glog the throat. I found the chip breaker is not square, how do i square it. As far as I can tell nothing can get between the breaker and the blade yet it does

View Sylvain's profile

Sylvain

1246 posts in 3579 days


#3 posted 01-12-2020 08:12 AM

Sorry the “not” did not print.
I wanted to write “will not help”.

Aligning the cap-iron with the cut-iron is shown in the above video at about 9’30”.

preparation of the cap iron is shown in this video at about 52’ 00”

The back of the cutting iron has to be flat where it meets the cap-iron.

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

View remdds's profile

remdds

40 posts in 3705 days


#4 posted 01-12-2020 10:05 AM

I can’t see in your picture. Is it possible that you flipped the blade upside down? i.e. bevel up vs bevel down?

View Don W's profile

Don W

20050 posts in 3647 days


#5 posted 01-12-2020 12:31 PM

Make sure the chip breaker is tuned and polished. If it’s out of square it probably means someone has already messed with it. You can attempt to square it but it’s likely to wind up to short.

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/16/tuning-the-cap-iron-chip-breaker/

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

28464 posts in 3763 days


#6 posted 01-12-2020 05:59 PM

bevel side…

chipbreaker side..1mm back from the edge…back is flat, edge of chipbreaker ground to knife edge, zero light shows through, when these two are held together..

frog is coplanar to the ramp.

re-install, add the lever cap

make sure the lateral lever’s end fits into the iron’s slot. adjust depth until it barely cuts..

adjust lateral lever, to get a wide shaving

plane is a no. 900. same year as the OP’s no. 814.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View Phil32's profile

Phil32

1388 posts in 983 days


#7 posted 01-12-2020 06:16 PM

Be sure you are using the same terms. Cutting iron = blade. Cap iron = chip breaker.

-- Phil Allin - There are woodworkers and people who collect woodworking tools. The woodworkers have a chair to sit on that they made.

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#8 posted 01-12-2020 07:07 PM

I thought the cap iron is what holds everything in place. No the bevel is not down. In the videos i watched the blade is supposed to be almost to the far edge of the throat, but they were demonstrating on Stanley #4 mine is a Millers Falls #90.My blade is hardly extended when it is ready to cut picture is the frog as it is set and pictures of the blade 1st when it wont cut yet and when it will.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5986 posts in 3431 days


#9 posted 01-12-2020 11:43 PM

No the bevel is not down.

It should be.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View MacAttack1's profile

MacAttack1

1 post in 630 days


#10 posted 01-13-2020 12:04 AM

Hey Karda,

Your plane looks the equivalent of a Stanley #6. If you haven’t had it yet, the experience of using a plane is very satisfying when it is working well. Not sure how much you want to put into it, but the new blade and chip breaker sets can make all the difference. You can find them on sale now also. Either way, get some good sharpening gear.
Careful though, before you know it you will have 10 planes and think you need more.

View smitdog's profile

smitdog

470 posts in 3185 days


#11 posted 01-13-2020 12:33 AM

Hi Karda,
Not sure about the video you are watching but for your plane the bevel should be down. The cap iron – chip breaker (same thing) should be attached to the straight side (facing up) not the beveled side with about 1/32” of the blade exposed for most wood, even closer for tough grains. Then the lever cap (the part that you were calling the cap iron) goes on top of that to hold everything together.

To get it ready to actually plane – Sight down the bed of the plane (bottom) and use the depth adjuster until you just barely see the blade stick out so you can see if it is skewed. The blade should be parallel to the bed so use the lateral adjuster until it’s as close you can tell by eye. Then use the depth adjuster again to pull the blade back in until it just disappears into the bed. Now you can try to plane the board. It probably won’t take a shaving yet so just turn the depth adjuster a little and try again until it finally starts to shave the board. Once you get a couple good shavings then check out one of them to see if it is the same thickness across. If it’s thicker on one side and fethered off super thin on the other then you need to use the lateral adjuster just a tiny bit until you get a nice consistent shaving. Look up Rob Cosman has an excellent video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2urnuIOAS8o

-- Jarrett - Mount Vernon, Ohio

View Don W's profile

Don W

20050 posts in 3647 days


#12 posted 01-13-2020 01:13 AM

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/26/know-your-plane-parts/

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View corelz125's profile

corelz125

2787 posts in 2056 days


#13 posted 01-13-2020 02:46 AM

Check if the iron is square also

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

28464 posts in 3763 days


#14 posted 01-13-2020 03:01 AM

That Millers Falls V-line plane….a look at how the iron was set up..

2” wide Solid Tool Steel iron, bevel down. These irons are actually thicker than the Stanley ones…They made just 2 sizes of planes for the V-line…a #4 size, and a #5 size…..Happen to have the #90/900, the jack planes I have are #14..

Uses the same size iron as the #90/900 planes…

This is the #14…has barely any camber ( my other #14 does have a bit more)

The bad part about buying the new iron/chipbreaker sets? Rarely fit as well as the old ones….withouth a file being involved. And, the tab for the depth adjustor rarely reaches high enough to be of much use. Thicker is not better…sharper is.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#15 posted 01-13-2020 03:23 AM

I checked the bevel is down but I can see from the picture why you would think not. The iron is almost square, it drop off a little on one corner. I had to square the edge it was way out

View sansoo22's profile

sansoo22

1452 posts in 734 days


#16 posted 01-13-2020 04:07 AM

I’ve been perplexed by this. Bandit’s images illustrate exactly how it should look. The only thing I can think of is the yoke isn’t properly engaged with the notch in the iron cap/chip breaker. This would inhibit the amount of travel you get from the depth adjustment.

Or crazy off the wall idea is the chip breaker came off a different model and is the wrong length. Altho this is highly unlikely as i played musical chip breakers with a MF #9 and Stanely #4 and they both worked.

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#17 posted 01-13-2020 04:50 AM

could the chip breaker be to far forward, The travel is ok but the longer the travel the deeper the cut. When the edge is where it should be it is to far out to even cut, when It makes a good shaving the edge is just past the back of the mouth. Maybe I aught to look around for another and use this one for a scrub plane.
mac i already caught the disease, I am already thinking about an other plane, a spoke shave as well. I have a cheap shave and I loved it till I realized the blade was burned. When I sharpened it I noticed the blade was blue from over heat, It sharpens but it don’t last

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

6982 posts in 2467 days


#18 posted 01-13-2020 05:44 AM

It could just be the picture but your bevel looks very narrow to me which would indicate that the angle is too steep. That would definitely make it more “catchy”. It should look more like bandits first picture in his last post. If you have a protractor, measure the bevel angle.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#19 posted 01-13-2020 06:05 AM

the bevel is about 25 degrees.

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#20 posted 01-13-2020 06:11 AM

I am official very embarrassed. I was thinking one thing and doing another, I checked again and the bevel was down. Sorry about that.

View Sylvain's profile

Sylvain

1246 posts in 3579 days


#21 posted 01-13-2020 10:24 AM

Here a good explanation about the frog adjustment:
https://paulsellers.com/2015/07/understanding-the-frog-in-your-throat-part-ii/

You will notice that if the frog is too much retreated, the cutting iron will no more sit properly on the frog which will bend the iron and change the relief angle.

The drawing “This is where I set the frog of my bench planes, all of them, for my everyday woodworking.” shows the maximum rearward position of the frog.

read also:
https://paulsellers.com/2015/07/understanding-the-frog-in-your-throat/

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#22 posted 01-13-2020 06:19 PM

I just found a problem. I can see light under the chip breaker so I worked it on a stone can still see light. Light disappears when I press with my thumb and for finger could the chip breaker be warped. The iron also has a very slight bend

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#23 posted 01-14-2020 04:19 AM

I to a very close look at the blade assembly, I thought the chip breaker was warped, but it is the blade. The chip breaker does not lay flat against the blade as it should. There is a bend in the upper end of the blade.

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

28464 posts in 3763 days


#24 posted 01-14-2020 04:44 AM

Lay the blade flat on the top of the workbench, with the bent middle sticking up…...A few sharp raps with a large hammer, check for flat….apply as needed, WHERE needed.

When blades are left torqued down for a LONG time, they will bow a bit….before you stow away a plane for a few weeks/months….release the lever cap. That pivoting little lever…flip it up. Then, it is a simple matter to flip the lever into the “latched” position, before you use that plane again.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#25 posted 01-14-2020 04:53 AM

ok I’ll try that, I thought I would have to send it to the hand plane bone yard

View sansoo22's profile

sansoo22

1452 posts in 734 days


#26 posted 01-14-2020 05:14 AM



ok I ll try that, I thought I would have to send it to the hand plane bone yard

- Karda

Bent and warped irons can be salvaged. I avoid hammering on the tempered end but the rest will handle a good beating. I’ve rehabbed bent and twisted irons. One even looked like the plane fell and landed right on the iron.

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#27 posted 01-14-2020 05:17 AM

ok thanks

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#28 posted 01-14-2020 05:41 AM

I bent the blade back, the bend was where it wouldn’t matter any way at the adjuster end. The chip breaker seems to be thew big problem here is a side view things don’t look right

View Don W's profile

Don W

20050 posts in 3647 days


#29 posted 01-14-2020 11:05 AM

i posted an article on how to fix it. did it not work?

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Sylvain's profile

Sylvain

1246 posts in 3579 days


#30 posted 01-14-2020 02:07 PM

When you have tuned the back-iron, verify the frog setting as explained above (comment #21).

The picture was not very sharp but it seems the frog is about 1mm behind the mouth and not parallel to the mouth.
the starboard corner of the frog is about where it should be but the port one should be advanced.
No metallic bright line (as encircled in red) should be visible.

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#31 posted 01-14-2020 04:28 PM

Don i read the article, I did some work on the edge but either I didn’t grind enogh but it seems like all I was doing was moving the light around and I don’t want to grind it away. New parts would cost more than the plane. the frog may be a MM or 2 off but i have had it farther forward and back and it makes little difference. right now because the chip breaker is cloging after a couple stokes I don’t get to use the plane.

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

28464 posts in 3763 days


#32 posted 01-14-2020 05:52 PM


I bent the blade back, the bend was where it wouldn t matter any way at the adjuster end. The chip breaker seems to be thew big problem here is a side view things don t look right

- Karda

Right where the chipbreaker touches the back of the blade/iron….you want that ground to a “knife edge”. Edge will be thin, but will sit tighter to the blade. Also, polish the curve of the chipbreaker, leaves a smooth surface for shaving to slide over.

When you use an oilstone to fine tune the fit between the two…..have the stone to where the rest of the chipbreaker can hang down,,,

And hone til the light no longer shows through any gaps…..also, make sure the lever cap sits down tight.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#33 posted 01-14-2020 06:03 PM

ok thanks I’ll get to it

View Don W's profile

Don W

20050 posts in 3647 days


#34 posted 01-15-2020 10:10 AM

This line of Miller’s Falls could be pretty crappy. Some of these take a lot of tuning to get them to work correctly. You may just have a very poor quality chip breaker. That’s not saying it can’t be made to work, but if it’s one of your first, it can be frustrating.

Even though a new one would be more than the cost of the plane, it may make the difference you need. A chip breaker upgrade will provide more performance gain than any other part generally.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#35 posted 01-15-2020 08:10 PM

Ill see what I can do with it. I don’t want to get one from ebay if i don’t have to. I want to able to look art it. thre only one i have seen in a used good store is a craftsman looks to be about the size of a #4. Thanks for your input. Wood by Wright suggested whacking a warped chip breaker with a hammer. He is the only one I have see address the warp breaker, I can’t lose much. Thanks mike

View sansoo22's profile

sansoo22

1452 posts in 734 days


#36 posted 01-16-2020 12:35 AM



Ill see what I can do with it. I don t want to get one from ebay if i don t have to. I want to able to look art it. thre only one i have seen in a used good store is a craftsman looks to be about the size of a #4. Thanks for your input. Wood by Wright suggested whacking a warped chip breaker with a hammer. He is the only one I have see address the warp breaker, I can t lose much. Thanks mike

- Karda

I agree with Don on this and well…just about everything plane related. For your first plane you kind of picked a dud in my opinion. I wouldn’t be to quick to rule out purchasing a good user off of ebay. I bought my first few already restored from ebay. Then i taught myself how to do it using the good working planes I already had. Now in my spare time i restore and sell a few. It’s MUCH easier to understand how they work when you have a known good one in your hands.

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

28464 posts in 3763 days


#37 posted 01-16-2020 02:14 AM

Just ran that Millers Falls V-Line No. 90/900 around tonight….had some Ash that needed smoothed..

I also used a Wood River #62 as a jointer plane…

No problems with either plane…

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#38 posted 01-16-2020 02:40 AM

ok, a couple questions, could this plane be ok for a scrub plane. I know where there is a nice craftsman, I don’t trust craftsman tools, trough out the years I have heard questionable thing about craftsman what do you think

View sansoo22's profile

sansoo22

1452 posts in 734 days


#39 posted 01-16-2020 03:33 AM

The Crafstman was not made by Craftsman. To my knowledge they never produced their own plane and are rebranded Stanley, Sargent, or Miller Falls. Don Ws site timetestedtools.net could help you identify who made it.

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#40 posted 01-16-2020 04:08 AM

I’ll have to see if I can get some pics of this plane. I have dons web site but i can find anything I click on a button and expect an article and jut get more buttons to click on. Probably just to dumb to know how to use it

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

6982 posts in 2467 days


#41 posted 01-16-2020 04:15 AM



I bent the blade back, the bend was where it wouldn t matter any way at the adjuster end. The chip breaker seems to be thew big problem here is a side view things don t look right

- Karda

These guys know a lot more about this than I do but I cannot really tell much from that picture. I think that you want the gap that is after the hump. What we really need is a picture from the front showing the edge of the cap iron and blade. What is important is that the front edge is nice and flat against the blade and has sort of a sharp edge on it facing forward. If you have followed Don’s guide here, you should be able to get that leading edge nice and tight against the blade (as long as the iron is flat). Note that you want to make sure that you sort of polish the back side of the blade where the cap iron rests on the blade too. That will not only make sure that the tuned cap iron sits flat but it will also yield a sharper edge on the blade as well and give you better results. If you have not done that, you need to back up a step and get the blade tuned up first.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View Karda's profile

Karda

3088 posts in 1634 days


#42 posted 01-16-2020 06:01 AM

I have been working on the edge but the more I grind the light move but the light is on one side of the chip breaker, can i grind away to much. I think the chip breaker may be warped

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

6982 posts in 2467 days


#43 posted 01-16-2020 01:24 PM

I assume that you are using a stone sitting on your bench and not a power bench grinder? Like this:

Even if it was bent or twisted across its width, it would seem like you could still get it flat. A picture from the end might help.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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