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New/old vs old/new... or battle of the golds... WARNING

by wagspe208
posted 12-13-2019 09:43 AM


24 replies so far

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#1 posted 12-13-2019 09:52 AM

Noise, vibration, overall smoothness of operation.
Well, the powermatic has a standard 3 blade head. It is loud, it vibrates, the belt is older. It also has a dust collection area, I assume that does something. The craftsman is smooth, quiet, so quiet in fact, I forgot to turn it off while I was goofing around. Did not even know it was on… So, the winner is POWERMATIC. We are wood men… not some sophisticated wimp! I want noise, I want vibrations, I want chatter…I want to know I can take my fingers off in a split second. Category goes to POWERMATIC! (yes, a joke, the craftsman is unbelievable smooth)
Depth of cut/ stall/ etc….
Well, the 3 blade cutter is a gnarling, vibrating, loud, hot mess… so I snuk up on 1/4”. It did not big… it was just a 2×4 stud. I did not hesitate wqith the craftsman… cranked it down and let it eat. Went through a knot with the craftsman…. that is where the craftsman lost again. Instead of pitching the knot at my head at 100 mmillion miles an hour, it cut right through it… loss craftsman…

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#2 posted 12-13-2019 09:55 AM

Lastly, weight, ease of use, overall quality, and what will still be running in 50 years. Well, the powermatic is on wheels. It is easier to roll away and put back in the corner. The fence is honestly way better on the PM… but the fence is about it. Dust collection… I’m not doing anything in my kitchen… I use it, blow the stuff out the door… but obviously the craftsman has nothing.
Overall, with the shelix head, the craftsman beats the PM hands down, in every way.. but is anyone surprised? It has a new head… it is also 75 years old.. that means it was built by men, with pride, to last.
The pm… built by ?? with $$ in mind, to fail to be replaced in 10 years. It ain’t the old pm.

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#3 posted 12-13-2019 09:56 AM

I guess really 65… if it was from mid 50’s… I can’t add.
Stay tuned… I will compare grandpas hand plane to my pm100!

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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Fred Hargis

6924 posts in 3547 days


#4 posted 12-13-2019 11:24 AM

I get it, and did think it was funny. Interesting as well….just don’t compare anything to the Craftsman tools of today!

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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wildwoodbybrianjohns

2758 posts in 601 days


#5 posted 12-13-2019 12:49 PM

Highly amusing, and the funniest bit was- “obamanation!”

-- WWBBJ: It is better to be interesting and wrong, than boring and right.

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Aj2

3764 posts in 2852 days


#6 posted 12-13-2019 02:40 PM

My first jointer was a craftsman with fixed outfeed table. I hated it . Used the machine up to the day the knives flew out and destroyed the head and gibs.
Adding a insert head to what I’ve called a boat anchor take some sand. Good Job.

-- Aj

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sansoo22

1415 posts in 708 days


#7 posted 12-13-2019 03:17 PM


You will have to find your own dead grandpa to get one, though

Nearly spit my coffee on the screen on this one. Great read…I find the Craftsman slightly less ugly. Something about the PM color just bugs me. Don’t get me wrong I’d proudly have either in my shop but still the PM mustard yellow is just rough on the eyes to me.

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#8 posted 12-13-2019 03:33 PM



My first jointer was a craftsman with fixed outfeed table. I hated it . Used the machine up to the day the knives flew out and destroyed the head and gibs.
Adding a insert head to what I’ve called a boat anchor take some sand. Good Job.

- Aj2


That must have been an earlier version. This one has 3 leveling jacks. Cuts like a dream. Zero snipe. It is truly awesome.
This is the 103.20660. Part 82 is one of the jacks, the other two are right at the rear of the cutter. The shelix guy and the guy I ordered it from both told me it was non adjustable. I had to send them a pic of the manual and a photo.
Couldn’t get manual… here are the jacks, or where they go.

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#9 posted 12-13-2019 03:36 PM

If I was reading correctly, many had issues with the pm table sagging. That might have been the longer tables… but it took some cleaning, gib adjustment, etc. The craftsman was quick.
Pic of craftsman before I touched it.

(oops, had started on the table)

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#10 posted 12-13-2019 03:38 PM

OH… Safety… I forgot the safety category. One of the most important.
Well, the PM has a guard very similar to the craftsman. The craftsman clearly shows it’s character by the exposed belt, little cutterhead guard, and it only had a toggle switch on the motor originally… yes, mounted on the motor.. right next to the belt.. so
CRAFTSMAN WINNER. …. I’m a man… I don’t need all my fingers. Safety is for wimps and people that can’t count to 10 without their fingers.

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#11 posted 12-13-2019 03:40 PM

You will have to find your own dead grandpa to get one, though

Nearly spit my coffee on the screen on this one. Great read…I find the Craftsman slightly less ugly. Something about the PM color just bugs me. Don t get me wrong I d proudly have either in my shop but still the PM mustard yellow is just rough on the eyes to me.

- sansoo22


I chuckled and hoped no one would be offended. We all end up dead. He was a good man. He led a good life… he is still dead. One does not diminish the other.
I also agree on slightly less ugly… but only slightly.. when I rebuild a machine (an overused term), I strip it to the bones, use epoxy automotive primer, then usually a single stage urethane paint. Regular automotive stuff. It will outlast me, easily. Pretty easy to spray.. at least I am getting better, and I don’t have to work on it every time I want to use it.
The pm100 I am working on here and there is the green color, thankfully. It already has got a table mill, slides or whatever milled, and quick primer of most parts. I think it will be show quality smooth, though.

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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Aj2

3764 posts in 2852 days


#12 posted 12-13-2019 04:12 PM

That’s still a fixed outfeed table. I know about the adjustments under the table.
To me the jointer with the longest flattest table wins. Straight knives with a adjustable outfeed.
Powermatics are screamers they spin faster then the deltas.
Your post reads like your having tons of fun. Thumbs up here.:)

-- Aj

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therealSteveN

7476 posts in 1628 days


#13 posted 12-13-2019 05:31 PM

I read through and just have one thing to say.

-- Think safe, be safe

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moke

1754 posts in 3830 days


#14 posted 12-13-2019 05:52 PM

Very well done, and entertaining….thanks for taking the time!

-- Mike

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#15 posted 12-13-2019 10:35 PM

Maybe I misunderstood fixed out feed table… I assumed that meant, not adjustable, cast in place, as is… by fixed, you mean it does not readily raise and lower via a crank, like the PM..
Hmmm.. See, I wasn’t lying.. I am no woodworker. What purpose, or why would one want an adjustable outfeed? I just made outfeed in the same plane as infeed, and top of cutter same… that is zero. Lower infeed, cutter doesn’t lower, cuts, board slides on outfeed…
When I saw the PM outfeed was on the big gib/ slide deal I thought that was idiotic… of course the table will sag… I am about to learn something.
Also, used 6 times in my 50 years might have been a lie.. it might have been less. It was in the basement of the house I was born, raised, bought and just recently sold since 74 or 75. I was born in 68. I have walked past it a time or two!

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#16 posted 12-13-2019 10:38 PM



Very well done, and entertaining….thanks for taking the time!

- moke


Glad folks are enjoying it.
I am not on here to make enemies.. I have had health issues all m life… tried to kill me a couple times, wish it would have a couple more.. it happens… I just laugh at stuff. It is my way of minimizing the crappy… laugh…
I have been around the trades, country guy, always dabbled here and there, but me wood is far more of a challenge than .0001”, yes, ten thousandth of an inch in metal. To me, metal is easy, welding, fab, … easy…
Wood… whew!

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#17 posted 12-13-2019 10:47 PM

I have his table saw.. .a craftsman 113.27520, which seems to be one of the old ones that are liked. Both went to my dad, now me. I have non kids, so you guys better keep an eye on the obits… The auction will have some nice stuff.

I added a router table to the end, built the stand one day, primed it, decided I hated the solid top, open extension, solitd router table, so moved extension to left side, cut up stand, stand back together but shortened, and added the vega fence, wixey readout.

I am just doing little stuff… or trying to do little stuff. In all honesty, I guess I am a fab guy. I like ripping apart the machines, making as good or better than new, then if I want to use it, there it is.
Oh, didn’t like vega fence brackets, wixey brackets tabbed on, etc. So, I made 4 new brackets for the front rail that hold rail, and readout, all closer together, more rigid.
I am a metal guy… HA

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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Aj2

3764 posts in 2852 days


#18 posted 12-13-2019 10:56 PM


Maybe I misunderstood fixed out feed table… I assumed that meant, not adjustable, cast in place, as is… by fixed, you mean it does not readily raise and lower via a crank, like the PM..
Hmmm.. See, I wasn t lying.. I am no woodworker. What purpose, or why would one want an adjustable outfeed? I just made outfeed in the same plane as infeed, and top of cutter same… that is zero. Lower infeed, cutter doesn t lower, cuts, board slides on outfeed…
When I saw the PM outfeed was on the big gib/ slide deal I thought that was idiotic… of course the table will sag… I am about to learn something.
Also, used 6 times in my 50 years might have been a lie.. it might have been less. It was in the basement of the house I was born, raised, bought and just recently sold since 74 or 75. I was born in 68. I have walked past it a time or two!

- wagspe208

For your machine adjusting the outfeed is probably never going to be a issue. It’s a takes a lot to wear down the carbide inserts and if you were to nick one badly you could just rotate it.
On a knife machine I set all the knives the same then adjust the outfeed for a flat cut. If I get a lot of nicks I might raise the outfeed a tiny bit.
Good Luck be careful:)

-- Aj

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Woodknack

13552 posts in 3434 days


#19 posted 12-14-2019 03:06 AM

I bought a Craftsman King Seeley lathe in Powergold, circa 1957, the previous owner hated it. I took it apart and it was full of casting flash jamming up the works. And the tailstock either been assembled wrong from the factory or had been taken apart and assembled wrong. No wonder he hated it. I filed the ways, removed all the flash, put it together correctly, and it ran like a scalded dog. But I’ll stick with modern lathes, much better built.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#20 posted 12-14-2019 03:18 AM



I bought a Craftsman King Seeley lathe in Powergold, circa 1957, the previous owner hated it. I took it apart and it was full of casting flash jamming up the works. And the tailstock either been assembled wrong from the factory or had been taken apart and assembled wrong. No wonder he hated it. I filed the ways, removed all the flash, put it together correctly, and it ran like a scalded dog. But I ll stick with modern lathes, much better built.

- Woodknack


Was “powergold” what they called their color in the day? I used a dry film lubricant on the gibs and threads on this jointer. The dry film lube is from race engine world. Similar to the spray can stuff, but 100 times better. Slicker, adheres better, etc. The table raises and lowers so smooth, it feels like it is worn out… you know what I mean? There is zero slop, it is only smooth, but it turns that easy. Unbelievable.

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

6924 posts in 3547 days


#21 posted 12-14-2019 11:55 AM


I am a metal guy… HA

- wagspe208


and a very talented one judging from the frame work under that saw!

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Underdog

1650 posts in 3090 days


#22 posted 12-14-2019 12:46 PM

Thanks for the laugh.

Nearly guffawed at the appraisal quip. Didn’t want to wake the wife, so kept it to a chuckle.

Plus one on the ugly Powermatic color. Why would anyone pick such an ugly color?

Dust collection! Safety! What concepts! Machinery manufacturers should consider them… Maybe. If PM were as proud of their dust collection as they are of their paint, maybe they’d revolutionize DC pickups.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

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sansoo22

1415 posts in 708 days


#23 posted 12-14-2019 04:11 PM

Nice work on the stand for the table saw. I often envy you metal workers. Metal shop was one of my favorite classes some 20 yrs ago in high school. My boss is a metal guy and gave me a set of Purox torches, tips, gauges, lines, etc that his dad had owned. Some of the tips are still brand new. I just moved a few months ago so still working on shop setup but im planning a spot to keep an acetylene oxy cart.

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wagspe208

59 posts in 809 days


#24 posted 12-19-2019 12:59 AM

For me, metal is easy. Well, easy now anyway. The mills, lathes, etc all read in .0001”. If you mess up, weld it back up (depending). Welding, it is either right, to hot, to cold, etc., adjust.
Wood… whew.. this grain, that grain, this stain, that poly… whole new ball game.

-- I am no woodworker. I am a hack trying to do something to amuse me.

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