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New house, new shop, need some ideas

by sansoo22
posted 06-16-2019 11:32 PM


43 replies so far

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#1 posted 06-17-2019 12:29 AM

Every tool gets a breaker in my shop. 2 HP jet DC with pleated filter and 5” ductwork, 26 guage steel, works great. I ran it low, about 3’ above floor, easy to reach gates and no ducts blocking lighting from ceiling. 2 lighting circuts with NO receptacles or tools on those circuts.

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BlasterStumps

1363 posts in 894 days


#2 posted 06-17-2019 12:30 AM

I would suggest looking into Square D panels. Unless things have changed since I bought ours, they have really fast trip curves.

The power supplier has to provide adequate service to the meter based on your calculated load. Your costs will come when you put in a bigger panel, breakers, wiring etc. I would get estimates from Electrical contractors on the upgrade.

-- "I build for function first, looks second. Most times I never get around to looks." - Mike, western Colorado

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#3 posted 06-17-2019 12:47 AM

Square D is the best. Period. And it is not overpriced. I have changed out alot of other brands of panels over the last 40 years, the replacements were always Square D.

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#4 posted 06-17-2019 01:13 AM

If Square D is the best then I will go with that. I’m kind of a perfectionist with home improvements. Especially those involving electrical, plumbing, HVAC or roofing. I refuse to do less than the best just to save some cash. Buy once cry once on those.

I was looking at a Grizzly 2HP with pleated filter. The G0548ZP i believe was the model number. Its not a dual stage with a cyclone but i think i could source or build a cyclone cheaper than the Grizzly models that have one. I’m open to other models tho. I have a Woodcraft in my city and a Grizzly showroom a couple hour drive away so freight isnt a big deal.

Dedicated breaker for every tool is definitely do able. Last time i checked code in my area I’m allowed to pull all the runs and wire up any outlets and lights that I want. I do need a contractor to install the panel and hook everything up to it. I will be scheduling an estimate on that once i close on the house

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#5 posted 06-17-2019 02:01 AM

Square D QO type breakers, not Square D Homline. The reason for nothing on the lighting circuts is safety…if anything trips you won’t lose lights and be stumbling around in the dark. Which grizzly store are you near? That would be handy. I made my own Y’s using a spot welder from Harbor Freight, and 26 guage snap Lok duct. Paid for the welder and then some. Use long radius 90’s from Oneida or any other supplier. I don’t have a cyclone, and I vent back into the shop due to heating and cooling.

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#6 posted 06-17-2019 03:50 PM



Square D QO type breakers, not Square D Homline. The reason for nothing on the lighting circuts is safety…if anything trips you won t lose lights and be stumbling around in the dark. Which grizzly store are you near? That would be handy. I made my own Y s using a spot welder from Harbor Freight, and 26 guage snap Lok duct. Paid for the welder and then some. Use long radius 90 s from Oneida or any other supplier. I don t have a cyclone, and I vent back into the shop due to heating and cooling.

- ibewjon

Took a look at the differences between Square D QO and Homeline. Definitely going with the QO series. I may put in an Eaton surge protector as well. I don’t have any experience with them but I have a lot of electronics…i mean a lot. Like 3 servers and a house full of automation equipment.

I like the idea of the lights on a separate circuit. Could an air cleaner be put on this same circuit? Even the big one grizzly sells is only a 3A load. For the safety reasons you mentioned I was thinking 2 circuits for the lights. An outer ring of lights on one and another for a couple big LEDs in the center of the space. Those big LEDs would be on their very own “safety” circuit since they will be over top the table saw which in my view is the most dangerous tool in the shop. I would put the air cleaner in with the outer ring of lights.

I’m close to the Grizzly showroom in Springfield MO. I think its 3 hrs and 4 min according to Google to get there. For all my duct work I’m going to try and bribe my cousin who is an HVAC installer to come up for a weekend. He has 5 teenage daughters so I’m sure he won’t mind the 2hr drive to escape that for a weekend.

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#7 posted 06-17-2019 04:29 PM

Square D makes a good wire in arrestor, also a snap in surge breaker that fits QO panels. Home Depot carries both. Put one in the house and the shop.. whether you are in K, O, A, or M, I know how much lightning you get there. I have spent alot of time there.

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#8 posted 06-17-2019 04:58 PM

Ya Kansas City gets all of the weather. From blizzards to days with 80%+ humidity in the summer. This year mother nature has been putting on quite a show. We had lightning, thunder, snow, and ice all in a 2 day stretch this winter. This spring we had the first tornado hit city limits in something like 26 yrs. We are currently at 300% rain fall i think. The lightning displays this spring have been some of the scariest and most awesome I have ever seen. Its kind of hard to explain if you haven’t seen it. Like staring directly into 36 old school camera flashes at the same time. And then wondering if any pictures fell off the wall when the thunder hits. And its not uncommon to have a late summer early fall drought with temps above 100 and dry lightning.

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OleGrump

392 posts in 799 days


#9 posted 06-17-2019 04:59 PM

Probably a good many of us are jealous of a pre existing half bath right in the shop. The old lady can’t be bitching about you tracking sawdust inside whenever nature calls, which is a huge plus not having to hear her mouth. If it were me, as finances allowed, I would take part of the former washer/dryer space and add a shower stall. (see preceding comment, which also applies to lawn mower clippings and the like) Then you can be “all nice and clean” when you go back inside the main house. The other modification to consider would be to add a deep sink in the half bath. (NOT a laundry tub) My brother did this in his half bath with a nice stainless steel model. I think his was intended for kitchen use, but comes in mighty handy for rinsing brushes and that kind of thing. Just some food for thought.

-- OleGrump

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#10 posted 06-17-2019 05:08 PM

OleGrump – I hadn’t even thought about a shower. I will have to take a look at how they laid out the plumbing to see if i can fit one. They used paneling for the washer dryer space and 1/2 bath so opening up a wall to take a peak won’t be too hard. I was already planning a urinal, stainless deep sink, and onyx walls for that 1/2 bath. Something i could hose down if the “cleaning committee” came out and griped at me.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#11 posted 06-17-2019 06:06 PM

I was in KC for a week in May. And my family is from Frontenac, a bit south.

View HackFabrication's profile

HackFabrication

151 posts in 166 days


#12 posted 06-18-2019 10:17 AM

You’re going to want at least one 220v circuit in your garage, or a couple. Wire all the other circuits with 12g and 20a breakers. The more circuits, the better, so when you’re looking at different sub panels, plan on future expansion.

You didn’t mention an air compressor, but you’ll eventually need/want one. Especially if your shop will see multi-duty as a auto/metal work area.

A good plan of attack, is to draw up a layout of where things are going to sit. A table saw (contractor or cabinet) takes up a lot of floor space. More so if you have any sort of outfeed table on it. My woodshop area is in my basement, so everything needs to be mobile. I have 1/2 of a 2.5 car garage for the auto/metal shop area.

When I had my electrical service upgraded (a good 15+ years back), I had two 220v circuits installed in my garage sub panel. One for my 7.5hp air compressor, and another for a future welder.

Since you’re in NY, you also want to consider heating options for the shop.

I regret not having more wall outlets. Even though I now have two double outlets (8 outlets) on each wall, it would be nice not to need an extension cord (or unplug/re-plug) my shop vac to reach the entire space.

Oh, and while you’re at it, I’d also consider installing an outside outlet (or two) by the garage door.

-- "In the end, it's all Hack..."

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#13 posted 06-18-2019 03:51 PM

I actually have 2 air compressors but nothing super fancy. Just a small 6 gallon pancake and my big craftsman pro 30 gallon. The craftsman says its a 15A load but i dont believe it. The power cord is as big as my thumb and its tripped a 20A if it kicked on when i was running a shop vac on the same outlet. I don’t do much in the way of auto work anymore. In fact my 1976 C10 SWB is supposed to be find a new home today.

I’m just now getting back into welding a bit. My boss gave me a full Purox oxy torch set including lines, gauges, and a bunch of brand new tips. My main purpose for those once I get a couple tanks is making my own mobile bases for big tools that dont have one.

I live in Kansas City so planning an exhaust fan as well as heating and cooling for the garage. The owner of my gym has a brand new “hotel” unit he never installed in his garage so I might be able to pick that up on the cheap.

Good idea installing a few outlets by the garage door that are normally free of regular use. On the topic of outlets is there any reason I can’t install the garage outlets like 4 ft off the ground? My brothers garage has them near normal house height and i find it highly annoying.

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#14 posted 06-18-2019 04:31 PM

No reason at all. That is considered above cabinet height. Mine are all 48” to bottom, same height as switches. Unless prohibited by local code. I only have a 16×22 shop, but I have 10 receptacles for 240v and double 120v receptacles every 32”. I also put in switches for under cabinet strip lights since my tools are along the wall and ceiling lights are behind and above me. Good lighting is important as we age. The DC duct is a little below the receptacles running along the wall. This puts the blast gates at an easy to reach height. Back to receptacles, all 120v in a garage or workshop must be GFCI protected. Even if you don’t have an inspection, use the GFCI receptacles for your own safety. I also put a couple timer controlled receptacles for battery chargers.

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#15 posted 06-19-2019 09:47 PM

Did the inspection today. Should have grabbed some pics of the garage space but so many people chattering away at me all at once and i forgot. Sellers found an issue with the garage half bath on their own and are spending $5300 to have it fixed. They sent me the estimate for the work they are having done. They are also having all of the main drains cleaned and scoped on their dime. I’m still getting my own inspection just because i have a severe lack of trust in all human life forms. But so far so good.

Garage is going to need a lot of work but i’m excited for the 9ft ceilings. Its all paneling right now that needs to go but will have to wait until washer and dryer are relocated. I will probably re-sheet the whole garage with OSB and put my new GCFI outlets at the top of the first run of sheeting. Should make cutting them all in much easier.

Other than the plumbing issue and lack of attic insulation the inspector was quite pleased. And the structural engineer was almost giddy about the overkill used to fix the foundation. Im not a fan of having a house with repaired foundation but it seems many in Kansas City have shifted and cracked at some point. Unless it was carved into the Missouri bedrock it most likely moved.

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farmfromkansas

101 posts in 69 days


#16 posted 06-23-2019 08:34 PM

About your dust collector, I started out with a 2hp cyclone, and found the need to upgrade. Went with a 3hp, but wish had gone with 5hp. When you get a sander, you can not get too much dust collection.

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CaptainKlutz

1645 posts in 1949 days


#17 posted 06-23-2019 08:59 PM


clip.
I will probably re-sheet the whole garage with OSB and put my new GCFI outlets at the top of the first run of sheeting.
clip.
- sansoo22

Make sure your OSB has proper fire rating?
Most building codes require 1hr fire rated 5/8” Type-X wallboard or equivalent for any garage wall shared with inhabited space. Same folks also code 2hr fire rated (double thick) for ceiling if there is living space above the garage.
Can buy fire rated OSB with fiberglass layer added, but it’s not not cheap and also not accepted by some local codes. (like my county).

New houses are always fun, enjoy!

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#18 posted 06-23-2019 09:15 PM

I did osb, with drywall over it. I can hang anything anywhere. Even if no inspection, use the 5/8
drywall against the living area for you and your family. Back to safety…it is worth the little extra money. And possibly insurance savings.

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#19 posted 06-23-2019 09:49 PM

I have a personal hate for drywall in shop spaces. Bump anything into the wall and the mark is there forever. I had already planned for Rockwool ComfortBatt insulation for all of the garage walls for its fire rating and sound dampening qualities.

If i have to do drywall for code maybe i can get away with a tall OSB wainscot layer over top. The only thing I could find about fire codes for my county is they follow “2009 International Fire Code (as it relates to construction codes only)” and the PDF had no other information besides definitions and amendments for special circumstances. I’d say my country is a bit behind but that’s Missouri in general.

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#20 posted 06-23-2019 10:11 PM

You may want to check with your insurance company

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CaptainKlutz

1645 posts in 1949 days


#21 posted 06-23-2019 11:14 PM

“2009 International Fire Code (as it relates to construction codes only)”

- sansoo22

Having the year of code approval is a good start!

Probably end up referencing section R302 (302.6 I think) of 2009 international building code?
If your local code approval is like most, accepted IFC usually refers IBC in a single line for specific building codes.

Call your city/county building permit office. The staff there will be able to give you exact requirements, or at least point you to where you can get the actual code. Probably even have link to free copy stored on counties servers for permit applicants. They will also know if county has supplemental requirements written locally.

Cheers!

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

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Kelly

2397 posts in 3399 days


#22 posted 06-24-2019 05:29 AM

[ELECTRIC]
On electric, I’m not saying I’m a fan of dust collection, but I have two four bag collectors and one single bag collector in my shop. Said another way, having at least one 240 circuit for collection is a good idea.

As it is, I have 240 circuits for those and my jointer, table saw, and heating and cooling system.

I have two lighting circuits [on three ways]. In case one circuit trips, I’ll still have lighting.

All my outlets are about waist level, for easy access.

Each wall has two circuits that leap frog, to reduce the chance of tripping.

Many of my boxes are double duplexes. For example, in one corner you’ll find my drill press, a charging station, and a landline phone, leaving one of the four plug receptacles free. Over in another corner, I have a scroll saw and two bandsaws. It’s a handy receptacle to access, so…. And so on it goes.

When I started installing circuits and outlets, I hadn’t planed on four wheel grinder for my two lathes. Nor did I plan on a copper plating station. I also didn’t plan on a carving machine. I had planed on two stationary sanders, but not the third. And so on that goes.

[STORAGE]

Clamps. You probably have enough. Or not. You may be that one unique woodworker who thinks he/she needs more. Just in case, consider setting aside and area.

Carts. Nearly the only thing in my shop that doesn’t roll is, my cabinet saw. That includes my two bandsaws, the workbench, the jointer, the planner, the wood and supply storage racks (12 wheels, it’s heavy). It sure makes life better when I rearrange furniture to squeeze in that next new toy.

Sandpaper storage for belt sanders, ROS sanders, hook and loop, etc. Drawers in the above mentioned carts include room for sanding gizmos (contour sanders, etc.).

[COMFORT]

I covered part of my floor in 4’x6’, 1” horse mats. WHAT A HUGE difference they make in comfort, tool damage and so on. One of the best investments I made.

This is a safety thing too, but a DIY sanding station, WITH sides, a back and top, tied to, of course, dust collection. Much of what I do with Dremel type tools and sanders is done in it. As such, I don’t have to wear a mask. You can see the dust flowing off the wood and into the system. Key is the sides, back and top, which the down town ones don’t have.

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#23 posted 06-24-2019 10:40 PM

Depending on the foot print of the DC it could go outside the back wall of the garage under the covered patio with an air return line and the filter inside. That could leave room for the sanding station inside.

Heres a couple quick shots of the patio. The door to the far right is the corner of the garage.

I like the idea of leap frogged outlets to prevent me from running to many things on one circuit. Definitely going to put that into the plans.

I’m pretty well covered for storage at the moment. I have a mobile worbench and two big tool chests. A set of lockers and I’m working on plans for a new clamp rack / sheet goods scrap cart. Kind of like an isosceles triangle shape with plywood scrap on the angled side and a clamp rack on the vertical side. I still need a sand paper storage solution because a drawer is getting to be a pain.

Here’s a pic of my current space before the traditional bench and band saw moved in. They are what prompted me to start seriously looking for a new home.

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#24 posted 06-24-2019 10:49 PM

And a couple receptacles on timers do they will power a off after charging. There are different timers depending on what you want

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Tmanpdx

26 posts in 166 days


#25 posted 06-25-2019 05:01 AM

I’m going to buck the trend and say limit how many breakers you put in. The simple reason is you only need a few tools with dedicated breakers – those that will be in use while you are doing other tools. This is the dust collector and air compressor.

Everything else – including any bench height plug-ins for hand electric tools, should just be on one circuit.

You should also go 220v on every tool that supports it. Even though your tool today may be wired for 115v, most tools have wiring diagrams to allow you to switch over to 220. It’s easier on the motors and in the off-chance you have a friend over where two tools will be in use at one time, you still won’t pop a breaker.

This is because you are going to end up with more lighting circuits, heating circuits, maybe you get a CNC with a water cooled spindle down the road and that pump for that spindle is going to take another circuit, Then you’re going to end up parking your RV next to your shop and you’ll want t circuit there to keep the battery charged and well you the point, no sense in wasting valuable circuit space for tools that will never need it. Save the breakers for things that will be running at the same time as your tools.

(I had a 40 space 200 amp service where I’ve had to swap out about 20 of those to 1/2 height breakers b/c I didn’t follow above advice – all my recent plug-ins have been 220 and they all share the same circuit)

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#26 posted 06-25-2019 01:51 PM

One circuit for all receptacles? Not. You don’t charge batteries while working? Two circuts per wall, two circuts for lighting on the ceiling. Another circuit on the ceiling for an air filter and a couple paddle fans. And remember, only 1 wire on a breaker, unless rated for 2. And the only breakers I know of rated for 2 wires are square D QO. 40 circut panel, yes. With a main breaker so no uneducated inspector can try to limit shop to 6 breakers.

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Kelly

2397 posts in 3399 days


#27 posted 06-25-2019 04:54 PM

I, also, take exception to the one circuit approach, both because of years of experience and because code prohibits it in many situations.

I have seven 240 circuits, because the kinds of toys on those circuits need them (cabinet saw, jointer, dust collector, other dust collector, HVAC (two, one at the inside unit and one for the exterior pump), and air compressor). Who knows when I might convert one or both bandsaws to 240, if only to fill one more slot in the panel, or add a bigger planer, or . . . .

On a normal day, I find myself running the table saw and one of the big collectors (the bigger, the better, within reason), a radio, about thirty lights, a charging station (amp hungry varmit), and a plating station. On another normal day, a buddy drops by and planes some wood, kicking in the other collector. From there, he may grab one of the sanders and a shop vac. And, like ibewjon, the charging station may be running in the background.

In other words, plan the best you can for what you cannot, now, imagine. For example, I never thought I’d get a good deal on:

- An AirHandler floor model buff system with dust collection and filtration.

- A carving machine (manual type)

- A second dust collector, so I don’t have to settle for a lot of piping and reducing the efficiency of an otherwise good machine.

- A Hegner scroll saw.

- . . . .

As to the single circuit approach, picture me and my buddy in the shop with me running a bandsaw and a dust collector and him running the miter and the third [small] collector, before moving to the sanders and the other, big collector, or a sander and the shop vac, or. . . .

Even at 20 amps (12 gauge) on a breaker, a miter and a HF collector should push hard toward tripping it.

On that subject, spend the money on 20 amp outlets. They’ll hold up better, even if on a 15 amp circuit.

Of course, then there is the “why would we ever put a fifteen amp (fourteen gauge) circuit in our shop for other than the lights?” thing.

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Kelly

2397 posts in 3399 days


#28 posted 06-25-2019 05:08 PM

I like the idea of the collector outside, with a return. I long for the day I can move both mine to the attic (project number 4,389) with a SSD cyclone in the shop for easy emptying.

That aside, it looks like you’re going to have a VERY nice play area.

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#29 posted 06-25-2019 05:14 PM

I like to plan for the future as much as possible. I’m a bit worried 200 amp service might not cut it in the long run for me but I have to balance budget and immediate concerns. My second hobby is home automation and general nerd things. I have a few servers and lots of little electronics all over my current home. Thankfully computers are heading in the territory of less power consumption so as some of the big boys retire I will replace with more efficient machines.

On to building code things. I did learn that in my county installing a sub panel in a garage that doesn’t currently have one is considered a new install. Which means leaving the walls open and exposed for inspection. I can get my inspection for fire safety at the same time. I’ve been told with the walls open and the fire proof insulation visible the inspector can make the call as to what type of wall board will be required. I need to call to verify all of this but a good friend is a superintendent for a construction company and suggested this approach.

For electrical i think the only questions i have left is what size panels to install? I’m planning for 200 amp service with 100 amp for main house and a 100 amp sub panel in the garage. Will a 40 circuit panel for each be sufficient? I know the sub panel needs a main breaker to shut the whole thing down at once. And its SquareD QO for everything.

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#30 posted 06-25-2019 05:56 PM



I like the idea of the collector outside, with a return. I long for the day I can move both mine to the attic (project number 4,389) with a SSD cyclone in the shop for easy emptying.

That aside, it looks like you re going to have a VERY nice play area.

- Kelly

I thought about attic mount for the DC but I’m leaving space for separate HVAC up there if i decide to go that route. My cousin is a licensed installer so I just have to buy the parts and off we go. The dryer in the garage is gas so wouldnt be hard to steel that line and run it up to the attic.

Anyway I somehow convinced the other half that if she wants me to do the remodel work on the rest of the home I need a good solid shop to work in. So she is on board with shop upgrade first and then I immediately have to start on the main hall bathroom. Guess I will be learning cabinet construction when I build the giant vanity.

If the company i work for wasn’t trying to merge leaving job future up in the air we would divert a good portion of condo sale revenue to shop remodel and knock it out asap. But we have to leave that alone in case we need to live off of it for a few months. So instead this first project will just have to go slow and steady.

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#31 posted 06-25-2019 06:11 PM

I do not believe that there is a 40 circut panel with 100 amp main sold as a unit. If allowed you can use a 40/ no main and add a 100a main with a retainer clip to hold in breaker. There is definitely a ,30 cir that a 125 a main can be added to. I will dig out a sq d catalog and see what there is. I know what will work safely, but your area might not allow it. The easiest is a 40 with 200 main in garage, fed by #2 off a 100 or 225 in house, the 200 only being a disconnect, and any protection needed comes from the house. Your inspector might not like that set up. Or possibly a 100 brkr in a separate enclosure feeding the 40 cir. Check with the inspector. And you need 3 wires plus a ground.

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Kelly

2397 posts in 3399 days


#32 posted 06-25-2019 06:18 PM

While many will point out you will not be using all 200 amps at once, the main issue I ran into was circuit breakers to control systems. For example (I remodeled):

- Dishwasher circuit -1
- Stove circuit -2
- Fridge circuit (2 (two fridges))
- Kitchen outlets (2 (leap froged, again)

- Freezer circuit (1)
-HVAC circuit (2)
- Hot water circuit (2)

- Bath circuit (1)
- Bath circuit (1)
- Front room outlets (1 (stereo, television, floor lamps, shtuff))
- Bedroom outlets (1)
- Craftroom outlets (1)

- Dryer circuit (2)
- Washer outlet

- Lighting circuits (4)

Then comes the shop, with the seven 240 circuits and so on ….................

In the end, that’s a lot of slots

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Kelly

2397 posts in 3399 days


#33 posted 06-25-2019 06:20 PM

[Must have got some new software. Ouch]

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#34 posted 06-25-2019 06:43 PM

With my job, I know I tend to lean to the high side, but I have 60 spaces in the house, probably about 15 are spares. In the shop, I have a 30 circut and a 20 circuit sub panel for the 240 receptacles that is controlled by a contactor with e-stops and a keyed lock out switch to keep anyone from turning on a machine when I am not there. ( The kids ). I know, I am a nut. I also have the led fixtures, plus the old fluorescent lights with 3000 k lamps for finishing items that go into an area with that color lighting.

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#35 posted 06-26-2019 04:00 PM

ibewjon – I saw one of your switches I think in another post where you were sharing your plans and templates for custom made y-pipes. I’m very interested in how you wired up your big tools to auto kick on the DC and then leave it on with a timed delay.

For lower voltage things like an air cleaner and charging station I intend to use some smart outlets and switches that i can integrate into the rest of my home automation. Both could kick on with a switch and a simple motion sensor could kick them off one hour after no movement is detected.

Your approach may be overkill to some but It’s safe and energy conscious. I know I would either leave the DC running for no reason or forget to turn it on in the first place.

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#36 posted 06-26-2019 05:08 PM

First thing is I have each 240 recept wired directly to the panel, one receptacle per circut. Second, I installed 12×12 x 6” deep j boxes above and below each panel. My 240 comes out of a panel that is controlled by a 100 amp contactor, wired to start buttons and stop buttons in 4 locations around the shop. The starter for the DC is located in one of the j boxes. I used a current switch on one leg of each receptacle which closed a contact when current is sensed. ( The tool is operating. Plugged in with no current will not trip switch. ). I got them from automation direct, part # ACSN 100-AE-F. These are probably available from many sources. The current switches pull in the starter. I also used a time delay relay, time delay on de energize ( shut down ) to keep the starter pulled in till the duct clears. All the current switches can be wired in parallel to start the DC. Being an IBEW electrician for over 40 years, this is the kind of thing I did on the job, so I planned all this and roughed it in while building the shop. I even put in a floor receptacle and underfloor duct to the table saw, so no trip hazzard. I was very fortunate to build this addition to my garage from the ground up. I was also able to collect used light fixtures and control components from remodel projects. I have spent more time building the shop than building projects.. Now that I am retired, it is time to start building! You can also pm me with questions.

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Kelly

2397 posts in 3399 days


#37 posted 06-26-2019 09:54 PM

RE “[I] have spent more time building the shop than building projects.. Now that I am retired, it is time to start building! You can also pm me with questions.

My buddy gives me a bad time about spending as much or more time working on the shop as projects. However, I’ve given him about fifteen hundred in toys ranging from a few routers to a dust collector and sanding cabinet. Now he understands (having had to put effort into organizing his own play, uh, work area).

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#38 posted 06-26-2019 10:13 PM

I have the exact opposite problem. I enjoy tinkering and building so much i just roll from one project to the next. I need to slow down and consider my workflow and efficiency when designing/organizing my shop. You’d think since efficient business systems and automation are my day job i’d use some of that experience in the shop. But it tends to go the opposite for whatever reason.

I think im going to reserve space for some sort of dry erase project board in the new shop. In fact there is a nice space of wall between the door to the house and a closet door I could mount one. Force myself to stay on task and do an after action review for the larger projects.

If the goal is to make enough for the shop to break even and pay for its own new toys I gotta take workflow seriously. Kind of why i started this thread way ahead of time. Better to have a solid plan then go back to organized chaos

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ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#39 posted 06-26-2019 10:29 PM

I just figure it as an expensive hobby, and gift shop. That is why I am 80% used tools. But there are times new is the only or best option. And since I never figured to make a dime, I am not losing money.

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dscheidt

6 posts in 75 days


#40 posted 06-29-2019 04:05 AM



I do not believe that there is a 40 circut panel with 100 amp main sold as a unit.

If it’s a sub panel, the main breaker is just a disconnect, not over current protection. It needs to be at least that of the breaker supplying it. It can be higher; there’s nothing wrong with feeding a sub with 200A main from a 20A circuit, other than the “you will trip the supply breaker” problem, feeding it from a 90 or 100A breaker is no problem at all.

I am a big fan of conduit in shops. Properly sized, and laid out, it makes deciding you need that 240V outlet over there, and not over here a 20 minute job. Costs more up front, but huge gains in flexibility and future growth.

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sansoo22

152 posts in 109 days


#41 posted 07-03-2019 03:17 AM



I just figure it as an expensive hobby, and gift shop. That is why I am 80% used tools. But there are times new is the only or best option. And since I never figured to make a dime, I am not losing money.

- ibewjon

I honestly don’t care if i ever make a dime on it but I know when my dad raised racing pigeons for a hobby it was much easier on the family budget when he was breaking even. Plus my mom is going to be semi-retiring soon and she makes quilts and all sorts of other crafts. I figure it would be kind of nice to hit the circuit with her in the summers and see if i can’t make a little money while we hang out.

Closing is scheduled for July 9th. Sellers paid to fix the half bath plumbing in the garage, they replaced the main sewer line from clean out all the way to city sewer. Yard looks like hell but that’s $13k i didn’t have to spend. Giving myself a few weeks to pack and move all non essentials and then the 27th we rent the uhaul. Moving the house in one trip and the shop in another. Nothing like a full day of moving in late July in Kansas City. The weather is going to be horrible.

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bmerrill

55 posts in 528 days


#42 posted 07-03-2019 08:55 PM

220 outlets. 2 on each wall, use a duplex outlet and split wire them, top on one breaker, bottom on another.
At least 1-120 circuit per wall, 2 preferred. 2 duplex outlets per box. boxes 4’ apart, 42” from the floor.
Separate circuits for compressor, dust collector, fridge and freezer, overhead doors, lights, overhead outlets for drop down drop cord reels, ceiling mounted dust filter, future HVAC, wall mounted lights, under cabinet lights, TV.
You just can’t have too many circuits.

Siemens FS140 Whole House Surge Protection is one of the best. 1 per panel, requires a 30amp DP breaker.

-- "Do. Or do not. There is no try". Yoda

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

825 posts in 3248 days


#43 posted 07-03-2019 09:27 PM

I use 30 amp dryer receptacles and 50 amp range receptacles. Both use the same cord cap, just insert proper ground prong. The Square D surge breaker is nice because it has a led pilot light. If off, replace. Snaps into panel and only one wire to connect to ground.

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