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View MrRon's profile

Keeping glue joints aligned

by MrRon
posted 04-11-2019 06:40 PM


38 replies so far

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

12173 posts in 4198 days


#1 posted 04-11-2019 06:51 PM

Edge guing or face gluing? Or, something else?

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

776 posts in 948 days


#2 posted 04-11-2019 07:09 PM

Assuming your talking panels, use clamps on top and bottom. Tighten top ones first while pushing down on middle of bar.

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

5606 posts in 1359 days


#3 posted 04-11-2019 07:27 PM

For panels, use either dowels, biscuits or cauls. You can make cauls easily with 8/4 stock ripped straight and then cut to a slight arch in the middle. I have a piece of MDF that I use as a template to cut the profile on my router table with a profile bit. Also, be sure to cover the edge with something like packing tape so the glue doesn’t stick.

If you’re talking about face-to-face, a lot depends on the situation. You can get the pieces aligned and shoot a couple of 23 ga pins to hold them in place while you clamp. You can also shoot three or four 23 ga pins that are shorter than the thickness of the board into one face and clip them with diagonal cutters. The little protrusions are enough to bite and prevent slippage, but small enough not to prevent the pieces from coming together.

For right angle, it’s hard to beat dowels, although the right angle clamping guides you can buy or make help keep the edges flush.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3071 posts in 2567 days


#4 posted 04-11-2019 08:02 PM

I find different projects always present this challenge. Sometimes I use blocks sometimes I use blue tape or packing tape. It’s a whole separate set of skills we develop.
Good luck

-- Aj

View JohnMcClure's profile

JohnMcClure

1017 posts in 1410 days


#5 posted 04-11-2019 08:08 PM



For panels, use either dowels, biscuits or cauls. You can make cauls easily with 8/4 stock ripped straight and then cut to a slight arch in the middle. I have a piece of MDF that I use as a template to cut the profile on my router table with a profile bit. Also, be sure to cover the edge with something like packing tape so the glue doesn t stick.

If you re talking about face-to-face, a lot depends on the situation. You can get the pieces aligned and shoot a couple of 23 ga pins to hold them in place while you clamp. You can also shoot three or four 23 ga pins that are shorter than the thickness of the board into one face and clip them with diagonal cutters. The little protrusions are enough to bite and prevent slippage, but small enough not to prevent the pieces from coming together.

For right angle, it s hard to beat dowels, although the right angle clamping guides you can buy or make help keep the edges flush.

- Rich


Rich,
Never thought of that trick but it sounds like a good one. I’ll have to remember that. Thanks.
MrRon,
Good thread.

-- I'd rather be a hammer than a nail

View SMP's profile

SMP

2101 posts in 675 days


#6 posted 04-11-2019 09:12 PM

for edge glue, I prefer biscuits or if its a shorter piece, just rub jointing it.

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

5606 posts in 1359 days


#7 posted 04-11-2019 09:46 PM


You can also shoot three or four 23 ga pins that are shorter than the thickness of the board into one face and clip them with diagonal cutters.

- Rich

I’m sure it’s obvious that if the pins go in flush with the board, the above trick is worthless. One good way to make sure the pins stand proud of the surface is to shoot them through a thin board, maybe 1/8” to 1/16”, laying on top of the board you want to glue. The thin board will lift off of the pins easily and there will be enough pin protruding to snip like described above.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2762 posts in 1373 days


#8 posted 04-11-2019 09:48 PM


I find different projects always present this challenge. Sometimes I use blocks sometimes I use blue tape or packing tape. It’s a whole separate set of skills we develop.
Good luck

- Aj2

+1 At least for me. It seems that every time I have a technique that works the next project calls for something more innovative because the clamp is in the way or not long enough or the wood is warped more etc. Some folks recommend adding salt to the glue joint to act as an abrasive but I have yet to do that. The scariest is with plywood or veneer as there is little wiggle room before you’ve sanded past the “Oh f**k” stage and gone through the top layer of veneer.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

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Andybb

2762 posts in 1373 days


#9 posted 04-11-2019 09:51 PM

Sorry. Double post.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Bill_Steele's profile

Bill_Steele

705 posts in 2501 days


#10 posted 04-11-2019 10:41 PM

I like biscuits or loose tenons.

View pottz's profile

pottz

9845 posts in 1754 days


#11 posted 04-11-2019 11:05 PM



I like biscuits or loose tenons.

- Bill_Steele


+1

-- working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1723 posts in 2499 days


#12 posted 04-11-2019 11:37 PM

Don’t worry about. After the glue is dried, just start sanding . It’ll clean up. ............ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View Delete's profile

Delete

439 posts in 1141 days


#13 posted 04-12-2019 04:27 AM

If you want to attempt to make your own clamps a set of three of these https://hobbyworkshopprojects.blogspot.com/2019/03/woods-panel-clamps.html will handle most of your edge and face gluing needs. They are unique in that they apply pressure in two directions by tightening one screw. The more pressure you apply to the glued surface the more pressure is applied to keep everything from slipping. I can’t remember where I found it but it is clearly from a late 80’s “Wood” magazine. Once three are applied and tightened you can add all the clamps you need depending on the size of your work without fear of misaligning the glue-up.

View crowie's profile

crowie

3706 posts in 2720 days


#14 posted 04-12-2019 08:30 AM

Mr Ron, I had a similar issue with the toy making.
A woodworking friend suggested I use Titebond Original and I’ve been using it ever since!

-- Lifes good, Enjoy each new day...... Cheers from "On Top DownUnder" Crowie

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1620 posts in 3562 days


#15 posted 04-12-2019 09:08 AM

That is called an Equipressure clamp. The Kitts, minus the wood may still be available. I am not sure who sold them.

View builtinbkyn's profile

builtinbkyn

3009 posts in 1710 days


#16 posted 04-12-2019 12:34 PM

Lots of good advice here. One other is, for edge gluing thin boards, use spring clamps at the ends where the boards meet. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

5606 posts in 1359 days


#17 posted 04-12-2019 01:53 PM


Lots of good advice here. One other is, for edge gluing thin boards, use spring clamps at the ends where the boards meet. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

- builtinbkyn

+1. Also, when you get down towards 1/4” or less, I use masking tape. It makes it easy to get the boards aligned. You tape over the joint(s) and to apply glue flip it over and open the joint. With Bill’s spring clamp advice added, you really don’t even need to clamp across the panel.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View SMP's profile

SMP

2101 posts in 675 days


#18 posted 04-12-2019 03:13 PM

BTW, has anyone here used the Damstom clamps? I considered buying or making some, but couldn’t get myself to spend that much(since I would like at least 3)

https://www.rockler.com/damstom-38-in-panel-clamp-blue

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

6575 posts in 2490 days


#19 posted 04-12-2019 04:01 PM

Another vote here for biscuits. An added benefit is how much stronger they make the joint ;>)

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View sepeck's profile

sepeck

440 posts in 2910 days


#20 posted 04-12-2019 04:32 PM

So, I’ve never tried it, but here’s a thread on using some salt https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/158706

Also mentioned linked in that thread (and above) https://www.rockler.com/4-way-equal-pressure-clamp
as well as pinch dogs: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=31158&cat=1,43456,57657

Just some additional ideas.

-- -Steven Peck, http://www.blkmtn.org

View splintergroup's profile

splintergroup

3774 posts in 1992 days


#21 posted 04-12-2019 04:37 PM

I like the clipped brad trick and I also regularly use the salt trick. Brads for large areas and salt for small items.

Big glue ups like planks in a table top get some form of a spline or biscuit.

View Planeman40's profile

Planeman40

1499 posts in 3530 days


#22 posted 04-12-2019 04:45 PM

Carlos510, thanks for that link!!! Great stuff and fun browsing.

https://hobbyworkshopprojects.blogspot.com/

-- Always remember: It is a mathematical certainty that half the people in this country are below average in intelligence!

View Delete's profile

Delete

439 posts in 1141 days


#23 posted 04-12-2019 08:37 PM

Thanks Planeman40, If I wasn’t so old and we had less winters from hell like this one I would get more of my own projects posted, but there is a large mix of material their now for the eclectic diy’er.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2762 posts in 1373 days


#24 posted 04-12-2019 11:26 PM


Another vote here for biscuits. An added benefit is how much stronger they make the joint ;>)

- bigblockyeti


Not. ;-) Great for alignment, not strength.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View MikeDilday's profile

MikeDilday

285 posts in 1228 days


#25 posted 04-13-2019 04:02 AM

There are many ways to keep them from slipping. You can use dowels or biscuits as mentioned. Make them oversize and screw the edges then cut the edges away or pin nails then clamp.

-- Michael Dilday, Suffolk, Va.

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

5606 posts in 1359 days


#26 posted 04-13-2019 04:47 AM


There are many ways to keep them from slipping. You can use dowels or biscuits as mentioned. Make them oversize and screw the edges then cut the edges away or pin nails then clamp.

- MikeDilday

In other words, nothing new to add. :)

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View pete724's profile

pete724

70 posts in 1578 days


#27 posted 04-13-2019 06:14 AM

Salt sprinkled on the glue surface or
Brad nails or
tape or
clamping Cauls or
special jig to hold the pieces(just made simply with scraps) or

etc. etc.
My assembly table has “cleats” on one of its corners.
Similar to this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GctmBLeSVvc

about 1:48

Also a roll of wax paper at the table.

View MikeDilday's profile

MikeDilday

285 posts in 1228 days


#28 posted 04-13-2019 12:59 PM


There are many ways to keep them from slipping. You can use dowels or biscuits as mentioned. Make them oversize and screw the edges then cut the edges away or pin nails then clamp.

- MikeDilday

In other words, nothing new to add. :)

- Rich

Just trying to help out. I really don’t have time to read all 29 replies to to make sure my 2-3 sentence post doesn’t duplicate a post. Sorry but it will happen again.

-- Michael Dilday, Suffolk, Va.

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MikeDilday

285 posts in 1228 days


#29 posted 04-13-2019 12:59 PM


There are many ways to keep them from slipping. You can use dowels or biscuits as mentioned. Make them oversize and screw the edges then cut the edges away or pin nails then clamp. ; )

- MikeDilday

In other words, nothing new to add. :)

- Rich

Just trying to help out. I really don t have time to read all 29 replies to to make sure my 2-3 sentence post doesn t duplicate a post. Sorry but it will happen again.

- MikeDilday


-- Michael Dilday, Suffolk, Va.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5910 posts in 4013 days


#30 posted 04-13-2019 03:30 PM

I should have made myself more clear. An example of the type of glue joint I am using is not really a joint. I was trying to glue 2 pieces of wood together, surface to surface (a 2”x8” to a 1”x8”) to make a thicker piece. The surface area is 16 sq”. The pieces cannot have dowels, splines or biscuits to align them. The later requirement to contour also precludes the use of brads. I spread titebond II to both surfaces and “wring” the pieces together for good spread, but when I try to clamp them, they move out of alignment. I can’t use blocks along the edges because they would become glued to the edges from squeeze out. Trying to remove the “alignment” blocks, damages the edges of the assembly. The wood I’m using is Cypress that has been sanded very smooth. Would a more rough surface hold alignment better and would it affect strength?

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

5606 posts in 1359 days


#31 posted 04-13-2019 03:52 PM


I can t use blocks along the edges because they would become glued to the edges from squeeze out.

- MrRon

Put packing tape on the face of the blocks. They’ll pop right off. I have a whole box full that I’ve accumulated for different situations.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View Jack Lewis's profile

Jack Lewis

576 posts in 1847 days


#32 posted 04-13-2019 04:14 PM

Edge gluing I use c-clamps at each end and snug the bar clamps. For middle of the joints I snug the bar clamp, and hammer into alignment with a sacrificial block to prevent damage. Segments are generally a rub joint and with rubber band clamps if necessary. Face to face, a c-clamp at opposite corners, cauls or wedges under the bar clamps across the span. Deep throated c-clamps help on items narrow enough to reach centers.

-- "PLUMBER'S BUTT! Get over it, everybody has one"

View Delete's profile

Delete

439 posts in 1141 days


#33 posted 04-13-2019 05:32 PM

Sounds like your trying to make up a piece 2” X 3” X 8” if your measurements are actual. I don’t see what the problem is for such a small piece. If you use edge blocks they shouldn’t glue on if you remove them right after camping the faces. A little rough is ok, too rough will weaken the joint and the glue line will be more pronounced. I would use a 12” bar clamp to clamp the end edges and two C clamps to clamp the side edges, then apply two stickers on the faces so you don’t dent the faces, and apply as many C clamps as you want to clamp the glue joint. You can then remove the edge clamps. If you are worried about denting the ends and edges, go a little over size and clean up to finished size on a sander or jointer.

There are any number of solutions for such a small piece. If your vise opens wide enough, clamp the clue applied, two pieces in your vice end to end, apply stickers and C clamps, wait till the clue starts to set and remove. You need only apply enough pressure to the vice to prevent slipping when the clue joint is clamped up.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5910 posts in 4013 days


#34 posted 04-14-2019 04:45 PM

Thanks all for the solution to a simple, but common problem. I build large scale train models and use scrap cypress wood built up to the required thicknesses. Large scale means models in the 5’ size or 3/4” to the foot scale.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1620 posts in 3562 days


#35 posted 04-14-2019 05:53 PM

How about gluing, stacking, and adding some 4” thick solid cement blocks or bricks for weight till glue sets. You should be able to correct any alignment issues as you add the weight. At about $1 each, cheaper than any clamps.

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

5606 posts in 1359 days


#36 posted 04-14-2019 10:21 PM


How about gluing, stacking, and adding some 4” thick solid cement blocks or bricks for weight till glue sets. You should be able to correct any alignment issues as you add the weight. At about $1 each, cheaper than any clamps.

- ibewjon

+1. That’s an idea I got from the old Dave Marks show. I went to HD and bought a bunch of bricks and wrapped them thickly with duct tape so they won’t scratch anything. I use them all the time, from gluing, to holding boards steady while I crosscut them with my circular saw, or anything else I need a weight for.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View BlueRidgeDog's profile

BlueRidgeDog

703 posts in 549 days


#37 posted 04-14-2019 10:27 PM

For panels I use a biscuit and all other things I glue generally have some sort of joinery that keeps them as they should be.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2255 days


#38 posted 04-14-2019 11:13 PM

For stock 3/8” or less I use blue tape almost exclusively.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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