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View Nuvigil's profile

Newbie question about Jointers

by Nuvigil
posted 03-11-2019 06:53 PM


25 replies so far

View Firewood's profile

Firewood

1436 posts in 2645 days


#1 posted 03-11-2019 07:14 PM

Welcome to Lumberjocks, Nuvigil. Unfortunately, you are correct. A jointer cannot be used as a thickness planer. The jointer works well to flatten one face and square an edge to it, but once you flip the board to it’s other face, there no reference to the already jointed face. You will most likely end up with a wedge. You either need a planer or some hand planning skills.

-- Mike - Waukesha, WI

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pottz

14878 posts in 1996 days


#2 posted 03-11-2019 07:19 PM

ditto your gonna need a planer or beef up your arms and start hand planing-lol.or just get boards already planed.check craigs list for a good used one or maybe your re-store.

-- working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.

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HokieKen

16699 posts in 2150 days


#3 posted 03-11-2019 07:19 PM

What Mike said ^

You can use a sled in a planer to joint faces of rough stock. But not the other way around.

-- I collect hobbies. There is no sense in limiting yourself (Don W) - - - - - - - - Kenny in SW VA

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Nuvigil

6 posts in 749 days


#4 posted 03-11-2019 07:36 PM

Surely is unfortunate. Thank you for the confirmation though. I’ll have to try and make do with what I’ve got.

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runswithscissors

3128 posts in 3036 days


#5 posted 03-11-2019 10:18 PM

This is the kind of confusion that comes from Sears claiming for decades that their jointer was a “planer/jointer.”

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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Holbs

2376 posts in 3041 days


#6 posted 03-11-2019 10:49 PM

Well… let’s see. It could happen! Might have to break law of physics. Could joint a face. And then flip over from the top of your jointer fence a cast iron overhead fence that is parallel down to the 0.001” accurate range to the jointer outfeed table, same length as said jointer fence. And then, flip board upside down the jointed face now turns upward, re-polarize gravity so the board slides along the bottom of the top fence!
Whalla!

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

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BlueRidgeDog

787 posts in 790 days


#7 posted 03-11-2019 11:17 PM

In reality they are a pair, one without the other isn’t much use.

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

1516 posts in 1190 days


#8 posted 03-12-2019 12:22 AM

Is it worth anything? If so, sell it and save up for a planer. Or better yet a nice drum sander.

In the mean time, buy your wood pre-prepped. You don’t really need a jointer to make a lot of things if your supplier can do some of the work for you.

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Holbs

2376 posts in 3041 days


#9 posted 03-12-2019 02:52 AM



Is it worth anything? If so, sell it and save up for a planer. Or better yet a nice drum sander.

In the mean time, buy your wood pre-prepped. You don’t really need a jointer to make a lot of things if your supplier can do some of the work for you.

- CWWoodworking


I asked my local hardwood supplier what S2S would cost as compared to rough lumber. He gave example of oak 4/4. Rough would come in around $3+. S5S would come in around $9+. Ouch! I’ve been spoiled by having both jointer/planer. Unsure if this is normal nationwide price difference between rough and S2S.

Whjat OP could do is to joint 2 sides, table saw the edge #3, hand plane face #4 since you have a nice 90 degree reverence opposite face to get started with.
Or keep eye out on craigslist for lunch box planers. Unsure of Central Machinery Harbor Freight ones go for. But majority of the Craigslist or local ads would have used planers starting around $150-$450.

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

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AlaskaGuy

6408 posts in 3320 days


#10 posted 03-12-2019 04:17 AM

Well there are probably many difference scenarios depending on list of things like, what you want to build, budget, space and many others.

It’s my personal opinion in the beginning you should go for a table, planer and a jointer. One reason I recommend this is because I went quite a few years before I got a jointer. In hindsight I wish I’d got a jointer long before I did. Yes you can build a lot of things with out a jointer. Have properly milled lumber just made laying out joint much more accurate. Personally I would not pass up a jointer of a drum sander. I have a small Bridgewood wide belt. I’d give up the wide belt any day over giving up my jointer.

Once you get those 3 power tools and you want to move forward I look at a handsaw and the maybe a drum sander or wide belt sander.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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CWWoodworking

1516 posts in 1190 days


#11 posted 03-12-2019 11:11 AM


I asked my local hardwood supplier what S2S would cost as compared to rough lumber. He gave example of oak 4/4. Rough would come in around $3+. S5S would come in around $9+. Ouch!

- Holbs

That would have been the last time I talked to that supplier. For 100 BF, they are charging $600 for a half hour of work. For 3$, I can specify what type of red oak and specify what region of the country it comes from, and put 50 cents/bf in my pocket, and have it planed/edged however I want. I dont use tons either.

My fondness for sander over planer stems from using a lot of glue up panels. I hate sanding/scraping. Plus the sander can be using as an edge sander for thinner stock.

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AlaskaGuy

6408 posts in 3320 days


#12 posted 03-12-2019 05:31 PM

There nothing quite as satisfying as taking some ruff cut lumber and milling it yourself. I like being in control of milling process. You don’t pre mill your project wood and set it aside for later use . You mill it after you have a project plan. You cut your pieces to lenght + couple inches before any thing else. Once that is done you can proceed with milling.

I flatten one face on the jointer, just enough to make it flat, then run them through the planer just enough to make that side flat and parallel to the first face. Once the faces are done I move on to the edges. That’s for the first day. At this point the stock is over size.

The next day I take some off each side but still leave it a bit over sized. Let that rest over night to see what moves. Don’t laugh I have stock move over night. Third and final day I mill it to finial size. All this time being careful as possible to remove the same amount of wood from each side of the stock.

No way the lumber yard can do what I described. They are just going to run it through a planer a time or two in full lengths and send it on it way. If you don’t use it right a way there still a good chance it can move on you.

I remember when I dind’t have a jointer and planer and have to use s4s stock from the lumber yard. Not many pieces were truly flat and many a time Id’ make a face frame the one piece would be thicker than the outer when butt together.

Here’s a table full of stock get ready for the last pass. Oh one other very important thing. Once you start the milling don’t lay the sock flat. Keep it so it get air to both sides of the stock.

I’ve milled a lot of wood over the years and my process has givens me great wood to work with. That’s a load of ruff cut cherry 4/4 lumber in that back ground.

That being said, “different strokes for different folks.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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BlueRidgeDog

787 posts in 790 days


#13 posted 03-12-2019 06:32 PM

As an aside, I don’t buy S4S because they will treat the entire board, so you end up with a vastly thinner piece when milling a 8’ to 10’ board than I end up when I pre-cut then mill.

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CWWoodworking

1516 posts in 1190 days


#14 posted 03-12-2019 07:43 PM

AG, your right. My supplier would not do that, nor would I.


As an aside, I don t buy S4S because they will treat the entire board, so you end up with a vastly thinner piece when milling a 8 to 10 board than I end up when I pre-cut then mill.

- BlueRidgeDog

I just used 14 ft boards. None were remotely thinner. All same thickness.

Not really wanting to do this again. Was trying to offer a solution to the OP’s predicament of 2 pretty useless tools if he doesn’t have some help in some form. The tone of post didn’t sound like he wanted to spend more money.

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BalsaWood

179 posts in 2170 days


#15 posted 03-12-2019 08:19 PM


AG, your right. My supplier would not do that, nor would I.

As an aside, I don t buy S4S because they will treat the entire board, so you end up with a vastly thinner piece when milling a 8 to 10 board than I end up when I pre-cut then mill.

- BlueRidgeDog

I just used 14 ft boards. None were remotely thinner. All same thickness.

Not really wanting to do this again. Was trying to offer a solution to the OP’s predicament of 2 pretty useless tools if he doesn’t have some help in some form. The tone of post didn’t sound like he wanted to spend more money.

- CWWoodworking

You keep mentioning supplier here and in other posts. Most of the people here are hobbyists and don’t have some “special” supplier that lets them “specify what type of red oak and specify what region of the country it comes from.” That is great for you that you have your own supplier but doesn’t help most people here and the person who started the topic.

Likewise for tools. To most people here, the planer and jointer are important tools to have and to a lot of those same people, milling lumber is part of the fun. Even most pro shops have those two machines well. I’d never replace those two machines with a drum sander either when dealing with rough lumber.

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BalsaWood

179 posts in 2170 days


#16 posted 03-12-2019 08:35 PM

To the original poster- the best way to go about it cheaply in your case would be to find a used lunchbox planer on Craiglist. The jointer \ planer both go together when milling rough lumber.

Alternatively, you could sell the jointer and buy a planer and then make a sled OR use a handplane OR as another poster said, purchase your lumber already milled (S4S).

View teejk02's profile

teejk02

504 posts in 2137 days


#17 posted 03-12-2019 08:42 PM



This is the kind of confusion that comes from Sears claiming for decades that their jointer was a “planer/jointer.”

- runswithscissors

Well in a sense the jointer is a planer, just not a thickness planer.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6408 posts in 3320 days


#18 posted 03-12-2019 09:06 PM

My supplier is who ever I buy something from, It could be Home Depot, cabinet parts dot.com, or somebody in in the next town over. It saves have to spell out a bunch of different names/places. It’s just a generic term. There is a place in Anchorage that caters to the cabinet makers in town. But it’s open for anybody pro, or hobbyist. The reason I say caters to cabinet makers is because of the materials they sell, not who they sell too.

AG, your right. My supplier would not do that, nor would I. ......Some people are more prone to go the extra mile to help insure success and some are not. it’s an individual choice. My method has a long history of working well for me. You are free to do it how you want. I’m not telling anyone how to do it, just how I do it.

My post are intended mostly for the OP. I’m trying to give him a long term picture of woodworking so maybe he can make a plan for the future . Something I wish I had when I started out. When I start out no one even had a computer. It was trial and error or something out of a magazine. Trial and error is a horrible waste of time and money.

Just like your way I believe in my way. My way has been a good way for me and that’s what my advice is based on.

EDIT TO Add
I believe the OP’s question was already answered. It was “NO” the rest is just icing on the cake.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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AlaskaGuy

6408 posts in 3320 days


#19 posted 03-12-2019 09:18 PM

This is the kind of confusion that comes from Sears claiming for decades that their jointer was a “planer/jointer.”

- runswithscissors
Well in a sense the jointer is a planer, just not a thickness planer.

- teejk02

IMHO

There is a big difference in the function of jointer and a planer. A jointer has no pressure rollers like a planer. If it did you’d never get a flat board because the rollers would press the bow or twist out of the board and you would end up the the same bow and twist, just thinner. A planer will make a board that has parallel surface that mirrors the face that has been jointed and to make you stock a certain thickness.

This says it better than I can.

https://www.wwgoa.com/article/the-difference-between-a-jointer-and-planer/

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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teejk02

504 posts in 2137 days


#20 posted 03-12-2019 11:32 PM


This is the kind of confusion that comes from Sears claiming for decades that their jointer was a “planer/jointer.”

- runswithscissors
Well in a sense the jointer is a planer, just not a thickness planer.

- teejk02
IMHO

There is a big difference in the function of jointer and a planer. A jointer has no pressure rollers like a planer. If it did you d never get a flat board because the rollers would press the bow or twist out of the board and you would end up the the same bow and twist, just thinner. A planer will make a board that has parallel surface that mirrors the face that has been jointed and to make you stock a certain thickness.

This says it better than I can.

https://www.wwgoa.com/article/the-difference-between-a-jointer-and-planer/

- AlaskaGuy

Not to split hairs here other than to say that the “planer” as we know it derives from the hand plane…making a surface flat with a blade and a stable base. Turn your jointer upside down (not recommended) on a piece of wood and you are doing the same thing.

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AlaskaGuy

6408 posts in 3320 days


#21 posted 03-13-2019 03:40 AM

- AlaskaGuy
Not to split hairs here other than to say that the “planer” as we know it derives from the hand plane…making a surface flat with a blade and a stable base. Turn your jointer upside down (not recommended) on a piece of wood and you are doing the same thing.

- teejk02

Well I can’t even pick up my planer up.

Actually I saw a video of what look like a Dewalt planer turned upside down and attached to some rails. You could flatten some slabs or something like that. Can’t find it now

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2738 posts in 3001 days


#22 posted 03-13-2019 12:21 PM



In reality they are a pair, one without the other isn t much use.

- BlueRidgeDog


Disagree – can joint a face and the edges of several boards at once with a planer, as discussed here cant get parallel faces with a jointer.

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BlueRidgeDog

787 posts in 790 days


#23 posted 03-13-2019 01:25 PM

One way you could accomplish it is to use your table saw as a planer, running a jointed edge agains the fence. Not ideal and limits you to the height of your blade, but you can do small stock that way.

View BlueRidgeDog's profile

BlueRidgeDog

787 posts in 790 days


#24 posted 03-13-2019 01:27 PM


Disagree – can joint a face and the edges of several boards at once with a planer, as discussed here cant get parallel faces with a jointer.

- OSU55

True..you can indeed use a sled with a planner and get a jointing effect. I think I am being more general in that you sorta use them together. I can’t imagine not having each when working with rough sawn wood.

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OSU55

2738 posts in 3001 days


#25 posted 03-13-2019 02:35 PM


Disagree – can joint a face and the edges of several boards at once with a planer, as discussed here cant get parallel faces with a jointer.

- OSU55

True..you can indeed use a sled with a planner and get a jointing effect. I think I am being more general in that you sorta use them together. I can t imagine not having each when working with rough sawn wood.

- BlueRidgeDog

Well, I can since that’s how I do it, including a TS sled to joint one edge and a #7 to do final jointing. When you dont have room you make do

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