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Best way to fix proud joint

by Travis
posted 01-30-2019 05:23 AM


29 replies so far

View Rich's profile

Rich

6150 posts in 1504 days


#1 posted 01-30-2019 05:45 AM

For me, sandpaper.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3498 posts in 2713 days


#2 posted 01-30-2019 06:21 AM

Ya sandpaper. You could even glue some sand paper to a piece of wood and use it like a file. Or just use a file and then sandpaper to smooth it.

-- Aj

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#3 posted 01-30-2019 06:45 AM

Perfect, that’s what I’ll do! Thanks!

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

1177 posts in 826 days


#4 posted 01-30-2019 08:07 AM

I would use a detail sander, this would help to sand to a straight edge.

View EarlS's profile

EarlS

4085 posts in 3263 days


#5 posted 01-30-2019 12:40 PM

I sand the joints after I glue them up using a ROS. That way I can sand everything flush and get rid of any glue drips that might be on the boards before finish is applied. Use 180 or 220 grit.

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

16979 posts in 3533 days


#6 posted 01-30-2019 01:22 PM

If hand tools are something you’d like to explore someday, a block plane is the ideal tool for dressing that joint. Swiping the end grain with mineral spirits before planing softens it up a bit and makes it easier to plane. And sharp is everything with that operation. Short of that, a sanding block or rasp.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. - OldTools Archive -

View BlueRidgeDog's profile

BlueRidgeDog

740 posts in 694 days


#7 posted 01-30-2019 01:24 PM

This is common and in fact often planned as if you can’t hit it dead on, you want the end grain portion to be proud (especially say with dovetail drawer construction) so you can level the joint. Typically you use a plane, but sandpaper will do the job.

View Robert's profile

Robert

4148 posts in 2395 days


#8 posted 01-30-2019 02:07 PM

A plane is going to do a better job than sandpaper, although sandpaper will work.

BTW, if you plan on using hand tools, one of the first purchases should be a block plane and a #4 smoother.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Sylvain's profile

Sylvain

1111 posts in 3414 days


#9 posted 01-30-2019 02:28 PM

To avoid nasty surprises (blow off), follow the advice given in this video, starting at 30’.

Although, if you are a newbie, I can not recommend enough looking at all the Paul Sellers videos.

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#10 posted 01-30-2019 03:38 PM



I would use a detail sander, this would help to sand to a straight edge.

- WoodenDreams

That is a new term for me. I will check that out as I definitely appreciate the help sanding a straight edge.

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#11 posted 01-30-2019 03:40 PM



If hand tools are something you d like to explore someday, a block plane is the ideal tool for dressing that joint. Swiping the end grain with mineral spirits before planing softens it up a bit and makes it easier to plane. And sharp is everything with that operation. Short of that, a sanding block or rasp.

- Smitty_Cabinetshop

I would like to get some skills and experience with hand tools. I’ll have a look at block planes. Will a cheap big box store version do for something like this, or is it worth investing in higher quality as a beginner?

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#12 posted 01-30-2019 03:41 PM



A plane is going to do a better job than sandpaper, although sandpaper will work.

BTW, if you plan on using hand tools, one of the first purchases should be a block plane and a #4 smoother.

- rwe2156

Block plane and #4, got it. The hand planes are a bit intimidating as I haven’t figured out their numbering system yet. They look mostly the same to me, though I know there are important differences.

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#13 posted 01-30-2019 03:44 PM


To avoid nasty surprises (blow off), follow the advice given in this video, starting at 30 .

Although, if you are a newbie, I can not recommend enough looking at all the Paul Sellers videos.

- Sylvain

I’ll check that video out. I love the Paul Sellers videos! Before attempting any actual construction, I watched mesmerized for hours as he took a rough log and turned it into a straight and square workpiece all by hand. I didn’t realize people still did that and it made me envious of the satisfaction he must get doing that by hand.

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#14 posted 01-30-2019 03:44 PM



This is common and in fact often planned as if you can t hit it dead on, you want the end grain portion to be proud (especially say with dovetail drawer construction) so you can level the joint. Typically you use a plane, but sandpaper will do the job.

- BlueRidgeDog

Right…that’s exactly what I was going for. It was all planned….

Thanks for making me feel better ;)

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

1177 posts in 826 days


#15 posted 01-30-2019 05:04 PM

I have seen the Paul Sellers u-tube videos before. I will say he demonstrates and explains the use of a chisel, cutting dovetails and the use of a plane on small boxes better than any of what I’ve seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=722CaYczml4

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#16 posted 01-30-2019 06:22 PM



I have seen the Paul Sellers u-tube videos before. I will say he demonstrates and explains the use of a chisel, cutting dovetails and the use of a plane on small boxes better than any of what I ve seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=722CaYczml4

- WoodenDreams

Thank you for the link, adding it my watchlist :)

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View Brandon 's profile

Brandon

57 posts in 742 days


#17 posted 01-30-2019 08:51 PM


If hand tools are something you d like to explore someday, a block plane is the ideal tool for dressing that joint. Swiping the end grain with mineral spirits before planing softens it up a bit and makes it easier to plane. And sharp is everything with that operation. Short of that, a sanding block or rasp.

- Smitty_Cabinetshop

I would like to get some skills and experience with hand tools. I ll have a look at block planes. Will a cheap big box store version do for something like this, or is it worth investing in higher quality as a beginner?

- Travis

I would say that a big box store plane will work for what you’re asking, but I would suggest looking at eBay, craigslist, and Facebook marketplace for old uses planes. I am a beginner myself, and I bought a new buck bros #4 plane when I first started. Since then, I have found I can get used old tools for cheaper than new, lesser quality tools. I’ve redone a Stanley low angle block plane, a Stanley #3, and am currently working on a wooden jack plane I found for $10. I almost enjoy bringing these tools back to working condition almost as much as an actual woodworking project. Everything I’ve learned, I’ve learned from YouTube. Mostly Paul Sellers. He has videos on cleaning up, setting up, and using hand planes. Another good channel is wood by wright. He is hands down my favorite hand tool woodworking you tuber, and I also think he is a member here on LJ’s. I was intimidated at first. Get a whole bunch of wet/dry sandpaper, some wire brushes from HF, and jump into it. You won’t be disappointed. You’d be surprised of what condition tools that you can being back to usable condition, and how beautiful they can turn out to be in the end. Even with beginner skills. I take great pride when I finish one of these planes that cost me 1/10th of what I could’ve bought a brand new crappy equivalent from the big box stores.

View clin's profile

clin

1125 posts in 1911 days


#18 posted 01-30-2019 10:31 PM

If this were my project, I’d use a trim router with the guide bearing on the bottom. That would trim it flush, then of course finish sanding.

I think you need a new tool and this is a great excuse to get one. A Dewalt DP611 is a great small router. A bit bigger than dedicated trim router, but very handy.

The problem with sanding is rounding the corner. Even if you attach sandpaper to a block and keep the block perfectly flat, the sandpaper tends to develop a bump or wave in it. This constantly grinds against the corner for any sanding strokes going outside toward the work. The exception is if you get the type of sand paper that glues to a block to ensure it stays flat.

Not saying it can’t be done with sanding, but very possible you’ll round the corner and end up adding a slight bevel.

As others said, a block plane is a great way also, just takes some care to make sure you stay flat and don’t chip a corner or otherwise tear up the end grain piece. Blade needs to be sharp.

-- Clin

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#19 posted 01-30-2019 11:13 PM


I would say that a big box store plane will work for what you’re asking, but I would suggest looking at eBay, craigslist, and Facebook marketplace for old uses planes. I am a beginner myself, and I bought a new buck bros #4 plane when I first started. Since then, I have found I can get used old tools for cheaper than new, lesser quality tools. I’ve redone a Stanley low angle block plane, a Stanley #3, and am currently working on a wooden jack plane I found for $10. I almost enjoy bringing these tools back to working condition almost as much as an actual woodworking project. Everything I’ve learned, I’ve learned from YouTube. Mostly Paul Sellers. He has videos on cleaning up, setting up, and using hand planes. Another good channel is wood by wright. He is hands down my favorite hand tool woodworking you tuber, and I also think he is a member here on LJ’s. I was intimidated at first. Get a whole bunch of wet/dry sandpaper, some wire brushes from HF, and jump into it. You won’t be disappointed. You’d be surprised of what condition tools that you can being back to usable condition, and how beautiful they can turn out to be in the end. Even with beginner skills. I take great pride when I finish one of these planes that cost me 1/10th of what I could’ve bought a brand new crappy equivalent from the big box stores.

- Brandon

I can see how that would be rewarding. I’ll take a look and see what I can find :)

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#20 posted 01-30-2019 11:15 PM



If this were my project, I d use a trim router with the guide bearing on the bottom. That would trim it flush, then of course finish sanding.

I think you need a new tool and this is a great excuse to get one. A Dewalt DP611 is a great small router. A bit bigger than dedicated trim router, but very handy.

The problem with sanding is rounding the corner. Even if you attach sandpaper to a block and keep the block perfectly flat, the sandpaper tends to develop a bump or wave in it. This constantly grinds against the corner for any sanding strokes going outside toward the work. The exception is if you get the type of sand paper that glues to a block to ensure it stays flat.

Not saying it can t be done with sanding, but very possible you ll round the corner and end up adding a slight bevel.

As others said, a block plane is a great way also, just takes some care to make sure you stay flat and don t chip a corner or otherwise tear up the end grain piece. Blade needs to be sharp.

- clin

I do have a trim and full size router. I hadn’t thought of using that for something like this. My concern is I would get some tearout going across the end grain.

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

3119 posts in 2940 days


#21 posted 01-31-2019 01:25 AM

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the obvious solution for proud joints: humiliate them any way you can (sorry).

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View Kirk650's profile

Kirk650

680 posts in 1663 days


#22 posted 01-31-2019 02:41 AM

I’d be careful using the router. My approach would be to use a sharp block plane to get it close, then hand sand or use a ROS. Hand sanding allows for a bit more precision, if you use a sanding block.

If you have a few bucks to spend on a block plane, I favor the Veritas. If you live in central Texas, drive over and I’ll give you one of my extra block planes, already sharpened.

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#23 posted 01-31-2019 05:35 AM



I’d be careful using the router. My approach would be to use a sharp block plane to get it close, then hand sand or use a ROS. Hand sanding allows for a bit more precision, if you use a sanding block.

If you have a few bucks to spend on a block plane, I favor the Veritas. If you live in central Texas, drive over and I’ll give you one of my extra block planes, already sharpened.

- Kirk650

Very kind Kirk650! I lived in Dallas for bit but moved to Phoenix 1.5 years ago :(

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2658 posts in 2904 days


#24 posted 01-31-2019 04:13 PM

Block plane is the best way.

Here to learn about hand plane numbering, Stanleys at least – Patrick Leach’s site. Scroll to the bottom of the page look for links to planes 1-8 and planes 60-70 to get started.

Refurbing old planes is great, Ive done 25 or so over the years. Have to know what to look for. As for a new box store block, my Stanley 12-960 low angle works as good as the old ones I have. New or old they will need tuning unless you go big $ for Veritas or LN. How to tune a plane

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#25 posted 01-31-2019 08:09 PM



I m surprised no one has mentioned the obvious solution for proud joints: humiliate them any way you can (sorry).

- runswithscissors

I thought it was funny ;)

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#26 posted 01-31-2019 08:10 PM



Block plane is the best way.

Here to learn about hand plane numbering, Stanleys at least – Patrick Leach’s site. Scroll to the bottom of the page look for links to planes 1-8 and planes 60-70 to get started.

Refurbing old planes is great, Ive done 25 or so over the years. Have to know what to look for. As for a new box store block, my Stanley 12-960 low angle works as good as the old ones I have. New or old they will need tuning unless you go big $ for Veritas or LN. How to tune a plane

- OSU55

Thanks for this. I will bookmark those links as essential reading.

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View clin's profile

clin

1125 posts in 1911 days


#27 posted 01-31-2019 08:23 PM

Concerning using a router. Clamp a scrap to the end where you complete the cut. This will prevent tear out.

-- Clin

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#28 posted 01-31-2019 10:13 PM



Concerning using a router. Clamp a scrap to the end where you complete the cut. This will prevent tear out.

- clin

Oh…right, thanks!

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

View Travis's profile

Travis

477 posts in 681 days


#29 posted 02-02-2019 11:22 PM

Hey guys, reviving this thread as the project has continued.

I tried sanding the joints and did get them so they are no longer proud. But, in my attempts at flattening via sanding, I introduced some curves. This is supposed to be the base for a table top and I can’t place the top on it because the base is not flat. Here is a pic. I’m assuming the best way to flatten that would be some hand planes?

-- The plan is wrong; my finished piece is right.

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