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View HardKnockCarpentry's profile

Heating my shop

by HardKnockCarpentry
posted 01-12-2019 04:34 PM


23 replies so far

View TravisH's profile

TravisH

685 posts in 2449 days


#1 posted 01-12-2019 05:17 PM

Seeing you are in Indy temperatures aren’t that bad in regards to extremes and length of those extremes.

Personally insulation would be on my list of must do. Several ways to go about it and several basically just slight different way of doing similar.

Personally I would roll the walls with some Drylock paint first. Just as a precaution and especially in no siding just painted block on exterior. Attach 1 inch rigid foam to the wall, seal gaps wtih expanding foam and tape seams.
Then frame up a wall and insulate with batting, cover with vapor barrier then slap your wall material on.

You can run furring strips and rigid foam panels between (layered to get desired R value), foam the gaps, etc..

I would also look at insulating above also. No need to heat dead space. Will be much more comfortable year round and save you money especially if you are talking about running 24/7. Heating go with what you like.

View BoilerUp21's profile

BoilerUp21

139 posts in 1281 days


#2 posted 01-12-2019 05:31 PM

Not sure if you have natural gas connection available, but i just put one of these https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/940364-dyna-glo-blue-flame-vent-free-dual-fuel-wall-mount-garage-heater.html in my insulated garage and it runs very little and keeps the garage at 60F 24/7 on its lowest setting.

View Matt Hegedus's profile

Matt Hegedus

147 posts in 1307 days


#3 posted 01-12-2019 06:27 PM

I’m in a similar situation, but they’re wood walls, zero insulation, and a few little holes thru which I see daylight.

I tried kerosene and electric heaters for my 20×21 space. So far, the absolute fix for this came as a surprise:

My dad bought me one of those stand up propane heaters you see outside of nightclubs. Where the burner is 7’ in the air. Couple it with a fan and your problem is solved. You can buy those heaters for $100 now, and one full grill sized propane tank lasts me about 20+ hours on half heat.

I’m literally sweating in one hour. Try it!

-- From Pittsburgh, PA

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

752 posts in 425 days


#4 posted 01-12-2019 06:28 PM

I have Central Air (heat & A/C) in the shop. I do have Air Filtration System, but it still blows the wading dust and have to change the furnace filters more often. Hence, I don’t use it. So I installed Cove Heaters (radiant heat). This heats the objects and floor in the shop. In turn the objects heats the air.

View HardKnockCarpentry's profile

HardKnockCarpentry

21 posts in 289 days


#5 posted 01-12-2019 06:32 PM

Awesome. Yes my house is basically all gas. I would have to run a gas line out there, but shouldn’t be that tough to run. Thanks guys.

View HardKnockCarpentry's profile

HardKnockCarpentry

21 posts in 289 days


#6 posted 01-12-2019 06:35 PM


Not sure if you have natural gas connection available, but i just put one of these https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/940364-dyna-glo-blue-flame-vent-free-dual-fuel-wall-mount-garage-heater.html in my insulated garage and it runs very little and keeps the garage at 60F 24/7 on its lowest setting.

- BoilerUp21

Wonder if it’s safe(ish) to leave this on, unchaparoned. Or does it have a thermostat, or just stay running?

View BoilerUp21's profile

BoilerUp21

139 posts in 1281 days


#7 posted 01-12-2019 07:13 PM


Not sure if you have natural gas connection available, but i just put one of these https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/940364-dyna-glo-blue-flame-vent-free-dual-fuel-wall-mount-garage-heater.html in my insulated garage and it runs very little and keeps the garage at 60F 24/7 on its lowest setting.

- BoilerUp21

Wonder if it s safe(ish) to leave this on, unchaparoned. Or does it have a thermostat, or just stay running?

- HardKnockCarpentry

Controlled by thermostat and has oxygen depletion sensor. Stumpnubs did a review on them and they are perfectly fine for shop use. Wish i had done it sooner.

View Design59's profile

Design59

12 posts in 284 days


#8 posted 01-12-2019 10:33 PM

Wood Stoves have a tendency to dry out the air more than gas or IR space heaters. I would just insulate really well and use either gas or IR. Everyone I know that use wood stoves have problems with splitting in the winter time.

-- Table leg and Component Vendor, NC, https://www.design59furniture.com/

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

936 posts in 2866 days


#9 posted 01-12-2019 10:52 PM

Be careful to not create a double vapor barrier it will trap moisture
Also any un-insulated area will become a heat sink (hot spot) and you will lose heat there. larry

Also see this.

https://www.google.com/search?q=do+propane+heaters+give+off+moisture&oq=do+propane+heaters+g&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.14649j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View HardKnockCarpentry's profile

HardKnockCarpentry

21 posts in 289 days


#10 posted 01-13-2019 05:19 AM

My shop is already small as it is (25×20). I wonder if I should lose a tiny little bit of space, by studding out the exterior walls that are all cinder block, and putting in insulation / drywall.

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

936 posts in 2866 days


#11 posted 01-13-2019 02:04 PM

You would only lose about a 5×6 sqft of space doing that. Spread over the entire shop that wouldn’t mean much if it were my choice. Be sure to run plenty of outlets and lights unless you plan on surface mounts, even then still do so. I had to scale down to a single car garage shop but I still insulated my block walls as cinder block or concrete block walls are a huge heat sink. The difference in comfort with both heat and a/c is shocking with insulation.
larry

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2437 posts in 3458 days


#12 posted 01-13-2019 02:22 PM

If I could afford it, I’d build with 2×10 walls for the insulation potential. I’m that much of a fan of insulation.

My shop 30×60, but I put a wall up for material and equipment storage (sprayers, ladders, wood, etc.) and parking a car, leaving me about 30×35. It was all uninsulated until the winter before last. With our hot summers and cool to cold winters, it wasn’t always comfortable working in it.

I added six inch to the walls and a first layer of 3-1/2 to the ceiling (until the wiring is the way I like it and more will be added). What a night and day difference that made. So much so, I suspect getting the sheet of rock on the other three walls and ceiling will be another HUGE jump.

As it is, I spend my days in the shop year around. A ceiling hung 5000/7000 watt heater makes it very comfortable out there when it’s cold. Once the rest of the attic insulation is in and all the rock on, I’ll probably just heat and cool it 24/7.

View HardKnockCarpentry's profile

HardKnockCarpentry

21 posts in 289 days


#13 posted 01-13-2019 02:38 PM



You would only lose about a 5×6 sqft of space doing that. Spread over the entire shop that wouldn t mean much if it were my choice. Be sure to run plenty of outlets and lights unless you plan on surface mounts, even then still do so. I had to scale down to a single car garage shop but I still insulated my block walls as cinder block or concrete block walls are a huge heat sink. The difference in comfort with both heat and a/c is shocking with insulation.
larry

- ohtimberwolf

Yeah, we currently have a 3 car garage, with the original garage, being my shop, and it’s seperated by a cinder block wall, from the other 2 car garage. I’m about to kick my wife out of that side, and move the shop to the 2 car garage, as it is already sheet rocked and insulated. I don’t park in the garage, as my truck will not fit under the door. I will let you guys know how this goes with her, as the smaller garage, is a longer walk.

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

936 posts in 2866 days


#14 posted 01-13-2019 02:56 PM

Ha Ha. If she works and has to walk through your shop to get to the car I hope you have a long and happy life but I doubt it.

Putting up a stud wall with screws (so it can be taken down easily) in the bay that is next to your shop is not hard to do and the car is still where it is seperated but where it belongs. It may have some advantages having that second part separated (even if it is a bllock wall) from your dust making tools and can be quite nice when it comes to assembly and finish of your projects.

Give it a lot of thought (think about groceries and other things that must move from car to home) and realize that you will have to live with your decision for a long time. No one likes war in the camp! Especially a long war. There is nothing like a happy home. larry

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1008 posts in 3307 days


#15 posted 01-13-2019 06:09 PM

Yes, 1” foam on the walls, then 6” studs and fiberglass, or studs, electrical, then closed cell foam sprayed in. 12” in the ceiling, minimum. The savings on the heat will pay for the insulation. I only have a 16×24 x 10’ ceiling. But with 6” walls and 12” ceiling insulation, I can heat my shop with a 4 kw in wall electric heater, but now I have installed a heat pump that is 28 seer for the AC and 14 for the heat side. It is efficient down to -14 on the heating side, and I have meters installed to monitor energy use. It costs me about 25 CENTS a day to cool and 75 cents a day to heat here near Joliet IL. Insulation is the key, but $ buy the keys. 70 degrees winter and 74 summer in the shop.

View northy185's profile

northy185

9 posts in 314 days


#16 posted 01-13-2019 06:11 PM

Count me as a big fan of insulation too. My shop had a heater in it, but was not functioning when we moved in. I still had the heater from my previous garage (LINK)https://www.amazon.com/Dura-Heat-LPC200-Portable-Convection/dp/B001XW29C6/ref=asc_df_B001XW29C6/?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid={creative}&hvpos={adposition}&hvnetw=o&hvrand={random}&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl={devicemodel}&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584482455001994&psc=1

Even on the cold days here in MN, after a few minutes it is comfortable at the lowest setting. I will get around to replacing that garage heater one of these days, but for now this is working.

It is also not uncommon in new construction to see rigid insulation on the exterior of a block wall… I’d consider that on the outside (single vapor barrier) with a 2×4 wall interior with r15 to save on space.

View clin's profile

clin

1068 posts in 1510 days


#17 posted 01-13-2019 06:38 PM

Insulation should always be your first step. Insulating and framing the walls makes a lot of sense as then it is much easier to use the walls for tools storage etc. For 90 ft of perimeter that will cost you about 30 sq-ft of area. Also, if you frame out the walls, it’s a great opportunity to add a LOT of electrical outlets including 240 V.

Of course, like everything it takes time and money.

Not sure what your summers are like, but adding cooling might be nice. You can add both heating and cooling with a mini-split AC unit. With a well insulated space, a small mini-split would work well. Mini-splits are bets used 24/7. They are sort of like the AC equivalent of driving a low-power car at a constant speed. Very efficient, but not designed to bring an ice cold garage up to temp in 30 minutes.

Being a garage, of course you also need to have an insulated door and one that seals well. It’s easy to add rigid insulation to a garage door, though pay attention to weight. While the insulation isn’t all that heavy, garage doors are balanced with springs. And adding some weight might require you to tighten or change out the springs.

Also, depending on your situation, since you are looking at using it as a dedicated shop and not a garage, consider replacing the garage doors with more traditional doors that seal much better. In my case, I replaced my single-bay garage door with two large swinging doors. I cut the original garage door panels in half and built those into the new doors. It still matches the remaining garage doors and didn’t make the house look weird. But a much better insulated and sealing door. Plus without the garage door track and no need to retain clearance for a open garage, it made for more usable shop space.

-- Clin

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2437 posts in 3458 days


#18 posted 01-13-2019 07:05 PM

I should add to the insulation conversation that my wife was so impressed in the difference it made, even without heating or cooling, she wants to do the car bays too.

On northy’s statement about exterior foam insulation, think of it as allowing your block walls to become a sort of heating/cooling flywheel.

When I lived on the Pacific Northwet beaches, I enclosed a block basement of a house I was renting and added a wood burner down stairs. It took nearly two days of running the stove to get the basement up to steam, so to speak, but the concrete walls and floor would, then, allow me to coast a bit.

Had I stayed, I planned on adding exterior insulation for the reason stated.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1008 posts in 3307 days


#19 posted 01-13-2019 09:49 PM

Remember that exterior foam will degrade in a few years, do it must be protected with some type of siding. More expense. Yes the blocks can act like a flywheel for the system, but you are better off insulating on the inside. Block had an R value of 1 or less.

View HardKnockCarpentry's profile

HardKnockCarpentry

21 posts in 289 days


#20 posted 01-13-2019 11:10 PM

Well good news. The shop is about 40 feet from the house. You have to walk through a two car garage, to get to it. As far as I can tell, this was the orginial garage, and then they built on this 2 car. When they built it, they actually insulated and drywalled the walls and ceiling. My wife, has agreed, that if I can start selling things, she will let park her car on the now shop side, and let me have the 2 car garage for my shop. So now we’re talking a 50×15 space!

View Ripper70's profile

Ripper70

1325 posts in 1423 days


#21 posted 01-13-2019 11:41 PM


My wife, has agreed, that if I can start selling things, she will let park her car on the now shop side, and let me have the 2 car garage for my shop. So now we re talking a 50×15 space!

- HardKnockCarpentry

Well, that was easy! I like the way you work! Keep it up and before you know it you’ll have your own spray booth in the master bedroom!

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

View HardKnockCarpentry's profile

HardKnockCarpentry

21 posts in 289 days


#22 posted 01-14-2019 12:15 AM


My wife, has agreed, that if I can start selling things, she will let park her car on the now shop side, and let me have the 2 car garage for my shop. So now we re talking a 50×15 space!

- HardKnockCarpentry

Well now there’s a thought! She did ask if I would get her a sprayer, so she could learn to paint. I absolutely detest painting, but love staining / oiling strangely.

Well, that was easy! I like the way you work! Keep it up and before you know it you ll have your own spray booth in the master bedroom!

- Ripper70


View Woodmaster1's profile

Woodmaster1

1240 posts in 3101 days


#23 posted 01-14-2019 12:34 AM

I have a 30×33 detached garage and I heat it with a bigmaxx 50,000 btu heater. I live in northeast Indiana and it only cost an extra $120 dollars a year. I keep the temperature a constant 70 degrees in the winter. I have R19 insulation in the walls and R30 in the ceiling.

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