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Of rust, priming, and painting hand planes

by Sanderguy777
posted 12-14-2018 09:25 PM


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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#1 posted 12-14-2018 09:31 PM

Bear in mind, I have no experience with any of this, and the weather here is 40s to 50s and damp, so painting is not to the instructions’ “70° and sunny, but not in direct sunlight”

Also, I want paint that DRIES. If it needs an extra couple days, or a trip to an oven, fine. But I HATE tacky paint! Especially when it costs 9 or so bucks a quart and has had 6 months or during time.

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Don W

19647 posts in 3369 days


#2 posted 12-14-2018 09:31 PM

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/26/bench-plane-restoration-guide-part-1/

Some pictures would help us give accurate advise

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#3 posted 12-14-2018 10:32 PM

First is sanded to about 800 or 1000 grit

Second is after the gel stuff. Slight surface rust after being thoroughly dried and set for only a week.

Last 2 are craftsman #5. That’s the one with cardboard embedded in the rust. The sole was scrubbed with a wire brush but still bad.

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#4 posted 12-14-2018 10:34 PM

The first 2 images are not the same iron and chipper. 1st is #4. Second is from the #5.
The gel did take some rust off. But it defeated its purpose by not keeping it away.

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Don W

19647 posts in 3369 days


#5 posted 12-14-2018 10:42 PM

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Don W

19647 posts in 3369 days


#6 posted 12-14-2018 10:43 PM

Wire wheel them

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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fivecodys

1639 posts in 2438 days


#7 posted 12-14-2018 10:45 PM

I have been using Evaporust from Harbor Freight and it works well for me. They usually have a 20% off coupon.
I have a couple of little troughs I soak them in.
I have used citrus based strippers on the planes that had most of the japanning missing. I follow that up with a wire brush and wire wheel.

Watch out. This is the most addicting thing I have ever gotten involved with. I already have several planes waiting in the wings for a restoration as soon as all the Christmas presents are finished.

Have fun!

-- A bad day woodworking is still better than a good day working.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#8 posted 12-16-2018 08:17 AM

This IS very addictive!
So I have decided to repaint the planes. The japanning is worn and missing in spots.

Will Rustoleum stops rust or pro work? It looks pretty good and is available in my area for half the cost of the duplicolor. (It is not engine enamal so not hard)

Is there a specific reason you chose duplicolor instead of something else?
Also, with any of these paints, is primer needed?

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Don W

19647 posts in 3369 days


#9 posted 12-16-2018 11:34 AM

Duplicolor matches the original japanning in color and texture closer than most other paints. If matching that is not a concern, Rust-Oleum will work just fine.

The other advantage to duplicolor is the quick recoat time.

Any good quality paint properly applied will work. It doesn’t even need to be black if the mood strikes.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#10 posted 12-16-2018 03:48 PM

Thank you. Right now the mone is a real concern unfortunately.

How many coats do you think I need?

Also, do you think spray is a better way to go than a can of paint? ( I thought controlling a brush would be easier than a spray pattern, but I might put it on too heavy with the brush)

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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OSU55

2649 posts in 2791 days


#11 posted 12-16-2018 04:54 PM

You want to strip them – use the airplane stripper and learn to deal with it properly, or you can continue screwing around with the lightweight stuff and waste time and $.

While I use wire wheels for the heavier rust, I like soaking in Evaporust because it gets everywhere – important if repainting.

Since you are going to the trouble of stripping, you want the paint job to look good – tape off the surfaces and spray them. If You go to the trouble to strip and tape off, you want a tough paint – Use oil based enamel implement paint. Can take a while to cure out but its the toughest stuff I know of in a rattle can.

After painting cover all surfaces with Alox. Great rust preventive. Use paste wax not oil to lube threads and pivot points, as well as the sole. Keeps dust away.

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Don W

19647 posts in 3369 days


#12 posted 12-16-2018 10:00 PM

Definitely spray, and 5 or 6 Coates.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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poopiekat

4772 posts in 4536 days


#13 posted 12-16-2018 10:27 PM

I’m a big proponent of sandblasting, using the finer of the two grits of crushed glass available in discount stores.

I prefer to use brush-on Alkyd enamel. I usually use automotive spot putty first if the cast iron surface is rough, then sand with #220. I’ve also used heavy-bodied sandable primer followed up with steel wool ‘til the surface is super smooth.

Alkyd dries slower than other oil-based enamels but it flows out without brush streaks. Two coats will do it.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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TheFridge

10859 posts in 2287 days


#14 posted 12-16-2018 10:29 PM

When I don’t strip it, I at least wire wheel the hell out of what’s left of the japanning to break the edges of it.

A wire wheel on a bench grinder does 90% of the rust removing for me. I only use a rust remover if I want almost every speck of rust off.

After the bath, wash with water, dry it, and wax it or whatever you prefer. I always put a drop of 3in1 oil in/on all threaded parts of the plane.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#15 posted 12-17-2018 01:58 AM

I think I’ll just bite the bullet and get duplicolor since I have to get a diamond stone from Amazon anyway.

Since I brought that up, is the trend 2 sided stone better than dmt duos? I have a 6000 grit wetstone, but I want a coarser diamond stone or set that can work fast without becoming unflat.
Budget is <110 for both 300ish and 1000ish grits. 8inch stone preferred, but wide 6 inch stone that are good quality would work too.

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#16 posted 12-17-2018 01:58 AM

I think I’ll just bite the bullet and get duplicolor since I have to get a diamond stone from Amazon anyway.

Since I brought that up, is the trend 2 sided stone better than dmt duos? I have a 6000 grit wetstone, but I want a coarser diamond stone or set that can work fast without becoming unflat.
Budget is <110 for both 300ish and 1000ish grits. 8inch stone preferred, but wide 6 inch stone that are good quality would work too.

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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corelz125

1402 posts in 1778 days


#17 posted 12-17-2018 02:29 AM

That one in the picture isn’t that bad at all. As a user I wouldn’t go crazy stripping and painting. I would just knock the rust off the sole and sides.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#18 posted 12-17-2018 05:19 PM



That one in the picture isn t that bad at all. As a user I wouldn t go crazy stripping and painting. I would just knock the rust off the sole and sides.

- corelz125


Sooo, is it safe to assume you live near spongebob? Lol
If that is good, I dont want anything to do with bad rust!
I do want it to look good, but I’m thinking about just clear coating it after a good cleaning. I was planning on painting, but that japanning is stinking on there!

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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HokieKen

14498 posts in 1940 days


#19 posted 12-17-2018 08:29 PM

That’s not japanning. That’s a Millers Falls made Craftsman. They never used japanning (that I’m aware of at least). That’s a baked-on enamel. For me, sandblasting is the way to remove it. Fresh wire brush on a grinder will likely get the job done too.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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corelz125

1402 posts in 1778 days


#20 posted 12-17-2018 08:49 PM

This was a rusted plane. Maybe it was spongebobs grandfathers.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#21 posted 12-18-2018 08:27 PM



This was a rusted plane. Maybe it was spongebobs grandfathers.

Point taken. Though the sole on mine had 1/4” of rust when I found it. The photo is after a handheld wire brush so not as bad as originally.

- corelz125


-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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corelz125

1402 posts in 1778 days


#22 posted 12-18-2018 08:36 PM

This is the after,I left the japanning as it was and sanded the sides and flattened the sole with sand paper.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#23 posted 10-18-2019 05:42 PM

I cant believe I never sent photos of the finished plane….sorry!

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#24 posted 10-18-2019 06:02 PM


After paint


Before paint


Before wire wheel and finish


After wire wheel and handle finish (my favorite plane now!)

Thank you guys!

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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corelz125

1402 posts in 1778 days


#25 posted 10-18-2019 11:04 PM

Nice work

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#26 posted 10-19-2019 05:45 AM



Nice work

- corelz125

Thanks. I just ordered a grinder so sharpening should be WAY less work now!

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#27 posted 10-20-2019 05:39 AM

I finished these today. The one with yellow bits has been waiting for 6 months. Of course now I have lost the chip breaker screw….

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#28 posted 10-20-2019 05:41 AM

This one I just bought last week and I got today. It was in pretty good shape just minor surface rust that a bath of metal rescue fixed.

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#29 posted 10-20-2019 06:06 AM

Today I figured out the secret to restoring planes and such. I have been using rust remover for all my planes since the beginning of this thread.
Every time it was a struggle to get the parts out, washed and oiled before the metal rusted. I got to the point where I didn’t even want to use the rust remover unless the part was really bad because it CAUSED rust!
Then today I had an idea. I had read on a thread here that WD 40 was a bad lubricant and that it was originally intended for Water Displacement (try 40). That got me thinking,: “rust bath takes off rust, water neutralizes the rust killer, flash rust happens right as I dry the parts….If I get the WD40 in there right after I rinse the parts, there won’t be time for them to rust….”

Well I tried it, and it works REALLY WELL. No flash rust.
I soak the part, rinse it, half dry it, then spray it immediately with WD40. Then, at my leisure, I can oil it and assemble the tool.

Thank you guys for the info and inspiration to find the best method! (There may be a better one, but I have yet to see it!)

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Don W

19647 posts in 3369 days


#30 posted 10-20-2019 12:12 PM

The next thing you will learn if you restore enough planes is not to soak them at all. Most restorers who do a lot of planes learn not soaking them ends in a better looking plane with a much safer process.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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corelz125

1402 posts in 1778 days


#31 posted 10-20-2019 05:53 PM

If it’s not a pile of rust with some pieces frozen a small wire brush and wire wheels go faster than soaking it for a day.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#32 posted 10-20-2019 07:48 PM



The next thing you will learn if you restore enough planes is not to soak them at all. Most restorers who do a lot of planes learn not soaking them ends in a better looking plane with a much safer process.

- Don W

How is it safer? No chemicals? I’m just afraid that I’ll lose a screw or something grab and fling a plane bed across the room.

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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Don W

19647 posts in 3369 days


#33 posted 10-20-2019 09:23 PM

No chemicals is correct. Why it’s safer depends on what your soaking it in, bit it’s always better to not use chemicals. Sit two planes side by side for a while. One soaked, one not and you will eventually see why. You can tell the difference.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#34 posted 10-20-2019 11:38 PM



No chemicals is correct. Why it s safer depends on what your soaking it in, bit it s always better to not use chemicals. Sit two planes side by side for a while. One soaked, one not and you will eventually see why. You can tell the difference.

- Don W

I use Evaporust so it is non toxic.
Does the soak make them patina more? I haven’t seen Evaporust do it, but the Metal Rescue I got originally does instantly….

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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corelz125

1402 posts in 1778 days


#35 posted 10-21-2019 01:43 AM

Evaporust can etch anything that is not totally submerged. Evaporust does leave the iron a different color compared to using a wire brush or wire wheel. For the plane base I just use sand paper on the sole and cheeks.

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Eric

212 posts in 1039 days


#36 posted 10-21-2019 07:09 AM



No chemicals is correct. Why it s safer depends on what your soaking it in, bit it s always better to not use chemicals. Sit two planes side by side for a while. One soaked, one not and you will eventually see why. You can tell the difference.

- Don W


A cloud of rust dust and metal vs oxcilic acid or evaporust? Doesn’t seem obvious to me. “Chemical” sounds so toxic but if the cloud of dust includes old paint and japaning finish particles then I’d say you’re deceiving yourself. Wiping out the patina isn’t something everyone likes. I suppose the resale market wants to see items that look NOS even if they arent.

-- Eric

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Don W

19647 posts in 3369 days


#37 posted 10-21-2019 09:58 AM


No chemicals is correct. Why it s safer depends on what your soaking it in, bit it s always better to not use chemicals. Sit two planes side by side for a while. One soaked, one not and you will eventually see why. You can tell the difference.

- Don W

A cloud of rust dust and metal vs oxcilic acid or evaporust? Doesn t seem obvious to me. “Chemical” sounds so toxic but if the cloud of dust includes old paint and japaning finish particles then I d say you re deceiving yourself. Wiping out the patina isn t something everyone likes. I suppose the resale market wants to see items that look NOS even if they arent.

- Eric

Your point isn’t clear, but it made me think mine wasn’t either. By “safer”, I meant for the tool. No matter what your doing in your shop, your personal safety is your responsibility. Yes, if you’re going to sand rust, paint, or even bare wood you should wear a Respirator or at least a mask. As for making something look NOS, I don’t recommend it, but it’s a personal preference thing.

There are a thousand different ways to skin this cat. If it’s your tool, you get to choose.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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Eric

212 posts in 1039 days


#38 posted 10-21-2019 11:36 AM

Well I don’t consider myself a “plane restorer” but I do fix up old tools and never use a grinder or wire brush. Oxcilic acid is my choice. Low cost and very safe for both the tool and user.

Here’s a tub with OA solution derusting a Shopsmith jointer and Sargent plane. No mess, paint is untouched as is patina. What’s not to like?

OA is used to clean decks in backyards etc. Very safe. Toxic dose is the same as salt. Nobody eats 4 tablespoons of salt ,cause you’ll die, don’t eat four teaspoons of OA and you’ll be fine too.

-- Eric

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Eric

212 posts in 1039 days


#39 posted 10-21-2019 01:21 PM

I was walking my dog this morning and remembered the time I left all my hand planes on a counter with a strip of 1” x 1/16” at the toe of a lineup of type 19 corrugated 3 through 8. They sat there for a decade untouched. Then one day I checked them out and found I had a one inch strip of rust on every plane. This was a perfect use of OA/Evaporust vs wire wheel. The solution eats the rust away without any erosion of the surrounding good, unrusted metal. If I used a wire brush wheel there would be evidence of my stupidity eternal as there would be damaged good metal taken with the rust. A damaged strip 1.5 inches wide on every toe, uggg…

Here there are today. No 5 1/4C, at some point it’s time to quit collecting and get to woodworking:

And the top side for completedness:

I’ve had a grinder since 7th grade (1973). One thing I learned over the years is a wire wheel on a grinder is for lawnmower blades, not treasured antiques….

-- Eric

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BurlyBob

7695 posts in 3067 days


#40 posted 10-21-2019 03:33 PM

I use a brass wire wheel on my grinder with no problems.

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OleGrump

577 posts in 1146 days


#41 posted 10-21-2019 04:32 PM

Citrus based rust removers will also remove paint very effectively. Seems like the soak, wire wheel, sand, prime then paint procedure might be the way you’d want to go.

-- OleGrump

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houblon

56 posts in 2455 days


#42 posted 10-21-2019 05:01 PM

Please be careful with oxalic acid. It is NOT the same as table salt.

From https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov:

“Oxalic acid is regarded as a strong poison when taken internally; as little as 5 grams have proved fatal”.

Compare to table salt:

The estimated fatal dose of sodium chloride is approximately 0.75 to 3.00 g/kg.
(Which means if your weight is 80kg, you would need 60-240g of salt).


OA is used to clean decks in backyards etc. Very safe. Toxic dose is the same as salt. Nobody eats 4 tablespoons of salt ,cause you ll die, don t eat four teaspoons of OA and you ll be fine too.
- Eric

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#43 posted 10-23-2019 01:36 PM


No chemicals is correct. Why it s safer depends on what your soaking it in, bit it s always better to not use chemicals. Sit two planes side by side for a while. One soaked, one not and you will eventually see why. You can tell the difference.

- Don W

A cloud of rust dust and metal vs oxcilic acid or evaporust? Doesn t seem obvious to me. “Chemical” sounds so toxic but if the cloud of dust includes old paint and japaning finish particles then I d say you re deceiving yourself. Wiping out the patina isn t something everyone likes. I suppose the resale market wants to see items that look NOS even if they arent.

- Eric

The dust I certainly more toxic than a bath of a solution so safe they say you can put your hands in it! I try not to have to use a respirator as I HAVE to for actual woodworking for allergy sake.


Please be careful with oxalic acid. It is NOT the same as table salt.

From https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov:

“Oxalic acid is regarded as a strong poison when taken internally; as little as 5 grams have proved fatal”.

Compare to table salt:

The estimated fatal dose of sodium chloride is approximately 0.75 to 3.00 g/kg.
(Which means if your weight is 80kg, you would need 60-240g of salt).

OA is used to clean decks in backyards etc. Very safe. Toxic dose is the same as salt. Nobody eats 4 tablespoons of salt ,cause you ll die, don t eat four teaspoons of OA and you ll be fine too.
- Eric

- houblon

Yeah, I’m not drinking ANY of the chemicals I put hand planes in.

Don, the reason I like the soak method is that while it may change the patina (I haven’t seen Evaporust do that. It may, but I haven’t ever used it with partly exposed parts) it doesn’t bother the japanning. Wire brushes on the other hand, I have seen EAT it. Also, the bucket of rust remover works while I strip the old crusty varnish and paint from a tote and knob.

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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BlasterStumps

1700 posts in 1241 days


#44 posted 10-23-2019 02:03 PM

I use Evapo-rust to soak parts in but as soon as I take the parts out of the soak, they go right into safety solvent where I also brush them with a parts cleaning brush.

-- "...I've been through the desert on a horse with no name." So name the damned horse already!

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corelz125

1402 posts in 1778 days


#45 posted 10-23-2019 11:41 PM

Usually if the japaning comes off from the wire wheel there was either rust under some part of it or somebody repainted it. Cleaning the japanning on the base I use a wire wheel on a drill of a dremel. That way it doesn’t do as much damage as a wire wheel on a 4” grinder.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#46 posted 10-26-2019 04:14 PM



I use Evapo-rust to soak parts in but as soon as I take the parts out of the soak, they go right into safety solvent where I also brush them with a parts cleaning brush.

- BlasterStumps


What is safety solvent? Those two words sound like an oxymoron to me LOL


Usually if the japaning comes off from the wire wheel there was either rust under some part of it or somebody repainted it. Cleaning the japanning on the base I use a wire wheel on a drill of a dremel. That way it doesn t do as much damage as a wire wheel on a 4” grinder.

- corelz125

I used a cup wheel (like 1” dia.) on the little rust spot in the japanning and in the process of getting the rust off, it really scratched up the japanning. I was probably pushing too hard, but Evaporust has never taken the japanning off. It didn’t even take the horrific yellow spray paint off the $15 Handyman plane I have been working on so long.

I’ll give the wire wheel a chance the next plane I do, now that I have a sharpening grinder and my old Ryobi is free to use for other stuff.

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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corelz125

1402 posts in 1778 days


#47 posted 10-26-2019 08:22 PM

I use an even smaller cup brush than that. Its probably around a 1/2” and the bristles are on the softer side.

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Sanderguy777

245 posts in 2003 days


#48 posted 10-31-2019 02:02 PM



I use an even smaller cup brush than that. Its probably around a 1/2” and the bristles are on the softer side.

- corelz125


Where did you get it? I got mine at HF. I tried a dremel one once but it has no durability and just folded the wires over.

-- Marc Spagnuolo (standing in front of clamp wall): I think I need a few more . Me (owner of at least 8 clamps):.....?

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corelz125

1402 posts in 1778 days


#49 posted 11-01-2019 01:18 AM

I had it for awhile. Maybe Amazon. Yup I’ve had the same thing happen with a Dremel with some of the cheaper wire cups. I use a 3/8” variable speed drill on slow and it seems to keep the bristles intact a little longer.

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Eric

212 posts in 1039 days


#50 posted 11-01-2019 03:01 AM


Please be careful with oxalic acid. It is NOT the same as table salt.

From https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov:

“Oxalic acid is regarded as a strong poison when taken internally; as little as 5 grams have proved fatal”.

- houblon


MSDS has toxicity at 1gm/kg (like salt) and lists it as an irritant (10mil HF gloves are overkill and cheap). Not sure why the nih is so off but they are typically alarmist and more political than fact based so I guess it’s par for the course. 1gm/kg it’s right there with salt. At your local Ace, even in California where …

(10mil gloves from HF, box of 50 for less than $10, use a coupon!)

-- Eric

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