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View CrankAddict's profile

Picture frame trainwreck

by CrankAddict
posted 12-12-2018 07:40 PM


17 replies so far

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

9226 posts in 1499 days


#1 posted 12-12-2018 07:48 PM

Jeff, I think the first problem is that your tablesaw blade is pinching the work against the fence when you’re resawing the pieces. That’s where the majority of your burnt faces are coming from. If it’s not that, then you’re simply feeding the wood through way too slow.

For the clean-up, any of the methods you mentioned will work. If it were me, I’d go with the handplane. The 4” size you have is perfect for the job. Just make sure you’re iron is sharp and you’re not trying to take too much of a cut. It will only take you a few swipes with the plane to remove the burn marks most likely. My second choice would be a card scraper but the edge will likely need to be re-hooked during the process and rolling a hook on a scraper isn’t a simple task.

Best of luck!

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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CrankAddict

37 posts in 162 days


#2 posted 12-12-2018 09:47 PM

Thanks for the reply!

It may not be obvious from the picture, but there is a bevel on the frame of 13 degrees (outer perimeter is thicker than inner perimeter). Because it isn’t flat I wasn’t sure how I could get a plane all the way into the corners, which is what got me thinking about the scraper in the first place. I keep reading about how people think their card scraper is the most useful tool in the shop so I figure I need to go spend $10 at Grizzly tonight and see what all the fuss is about haha.

View ChefHDAN's profile

ChefHDAN

1378 posts in 3210 days


#3 posted 12-12-2018 09:51 PM

Jeff, welcome to LJ’s and the addiction.. uh HOBBY, yes Hobby!

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

View tomsteve's profile

tomsteve

935 posts in 1580 days


#4 posted 12-12-2018 11:01 PM

id think id put some 120 grit on my sander and see how that works. if not quick enough for me, drop to 80. then go up through the grits. cant say ive ever had a problem with wavyness going through the grits

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1207 posts in 855 days


#5 posted 12-13-2018 12:27 AM

A card scraper, while a very useful tool, must be sharpened correctly or it will be frustrating for you. I’d suggest sanding out the burn marks working from 80 → 120 → 220 grit using a sanding block the keep things flat. Simply make a block from some of your scrap wood and you,are good to go. You can speed things up a bit with a random orbit sander, but honestly it will take you longer to drive to the store and back to buy it than it will take to sand it out with a block.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

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CrankAddict

37 posts in 162 days


#6 posted 12-13-2018 03:04 AM

The set I got at Grizzly tonight (I just moved to Springfield so I’ve been dying to check the place out anyway) seems to have some kind of usable edge on it out of the box. I know I need to get a burnisher to do them up right, but I have also read an HSS steel drill bit can be used in the interim. Might at least reproduce as good of an edge as what they came with. But bottom line, I was able to remove 98% of the burn and also make the miters nice and flush so it was worth $12!

On a side note, man, a guy could definitely get carried away with day dreams walking around that Grizzly showroom. I had no idea they carried Festool and half a dozen other brands too. Kind of a fantasy land for wannabe woodworkers like me!

View MikeDilday's profile

MikeDilday

250 posts in 819 days


#7 posted 12-13-2018 03:17 AM

If you have a bevel on the frame from the rip cut on the table saw that might explain the burning. Maybe you didn’t get a clean feed thru the saw.

-- Michael Dilday, Suffolk, Va.

View CrankAddict's profile

CrankAddict

37 posts in 162 days


#8 posted 12-13-2018 05:28 AM


If you have a bevel on the frame from the rip cut on the table saw that might explain the burning. Maybe you didn t get a clean feed thru the saw.

The burned faces shown in the pic above are from that 13 degree bevel cut. That said, I have even gotten burning cutting a 45 degree corner with the miter gauge. I may just be feeding way too slowly. I’m trying not to lose any fingers during my first week of this hobby, but perhaps I’m just being too slow in my approach. On those long rips the saw definitely audibly bogged down a bit so I took that to mean I needed to back off on the feed. But is that wrong? Is it ok to keep pushing and let the saw slow a bit or should you always try to keep the blade going at full speed?

View MikeDilday's profile

MikeDilday

250 posts in 819 days


#9 posted 12-13-2018 05:45 AM

What is the TPI on the blade?

-- Michael Dilday, Suffolk, Va.

View CrankAddict's profile

CrankAddict

37 posts in 162 days


#10 posted 12-13-2018 05:54 AM

This is the blade: http://www.freudtools.com/products/product/P410T

It’s a 40 tooth, but I’m not sure what TPI is in relation to saw blades :(

View jamsomito's profile

jamsomito

431 posts in 787 days


#11 posted 12-13-2018 06:36 AM

Hey, I saw the outcome in your thread about finishing. Great work! My fist project was an open lidded box. It… kind of held stuff if it wasn’t too heavy lol. Yours looks fantastic.

I find bevel cuts to be difficult. I have a contractor saw that is aligned to within a few thousandths of an inch as well, at 90 degrees. As I tilt the blade down, it slowly moves out of alignment until it’s off by almost a 16th at 45 degrees. Every bevel cut I make past about 22.5 degrees gets scorched. It’s borderline unsafe so I just don’t do it anymore. I have plans to rebuild my saw this summer to take care of it. Perhaps you have an alignment issue when the blade is tilted that isn’t present at 90.

Also, as you tilt the blade, you are increasing the volume of the cut and the saw needs to work harder for a through cut on the same material. If the saw gets bogged down your cut quality degrades too. If the wood has any tension in it at all it can put pressure on the blade and burn (e.g. you rip a straight board that yields two crooked halves) – that would be the wood’s fault. If you cut too slow it can burn, but if you’re borderline bogging down the saw on a slowish cut there’s not much you can do with feed rate. Don’t ram it through but dont dawdle either. A nice smooth cut letting the saw do its job is best. Takes a little practice but by project #2 you’ll get it :)

But, it appears you are already learning the most important trait in woodworking – fixing and hiding your mistakes :). Your finished piece looks great. Doesn’t matter how you got there.

View robscastle's profile (online now)

robscastle

6014 posts in 2565 days


#12 posted 12-13-2018 09:12 AM

Some sanding should fix it up nicely.
Here is a how to do it video tee hee
That should get you cranked up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuX7DXKc0_k

-- Regards Rob

View MikeDilday's profile

MikeDilday

250 posts in 819 days


#13 posted 12-13-2018 12:01 PM

TPI is teeth per inch. Just like on a handsaw. 40 TPI is a good combination blade for ripping and crosscutting.

-- Michael Dilday, Suffolk, Va.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

9226 posts in 1499 days


#14 posted 12-13-2018 01:29 PM

It’s a 40 tooth blade, not 40 tpi when you’re talking about a circular blade. 40 tpi on a 10” blade would give you 1257 teeth ;-)

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View CrankAddict's profile

CrankAddict

37 posts in 162 days


#15 posted 12-13-2018 02:36 PM


Hey, I saw the outcome in your thread about finishing. Great work! My fist project was an open lidded box. It… kind of held stuff if it wasn t too heavy lol. Yours looks fantastic.

I find bevel cuts to be difficult. I have a contractor saw that is aligned to within a few thousandths of an inch as well, at 90 degrees. As I tilt the blade down, it slowly moves out of alignment until it s off by almost a 16th at 45 degrees. Every bevel cut I make past about 22.5 degrees gets scorched. It s borderline unsafe so I just don t do it anymore. I have plans to rebuild my saw this summer to take care of it. Perhaps you have an alignment issue when the blade is tilted that isn t present at 90.

Also, as you tilt the blade, you are increasing the volume of the cut and the saw needs to work harder for a through cut on the same material. If the saw gets bogged down your cut quality degrades too. If the wood has any tension in it at all it can put pressure on the blade and burn (e.g. you rip a straight board that yields two crooked halves) – that would be the wood s fault. If you cut too slow it can burn, but if you re borderline bogging down the saw on a slowish cut there s not much you can do with feed rate. Don t ram it through but dont dawdle either. A nice smooth cut letting the saw do its job is best. Takes a little practice but by project #2 you ll get it :)

But, it appears you are already learning the most important trait in woodworking – fixing and hiding your mistakes :). Your finished piece looks great. Doesn t matter how you got there.

- jamsomito

Thanks for the kind words and also the great input about the blade going out of true at a bevel. I’m embarrassed to say I didn’t even think to check that. I also noticed when looking at the blade specs that 1.5” is the max cut on rips, so I was definitely at the full capacity when ripping the 2×4 and then also cutting the bevel. Perhaps it would have been better to swap to a 24T ripping blade and just have to deal with a touch of sanding after if it wasn’t as clean a cut? I know Freud makes some 24T rip-only blades that are supposed to produce great finishes (“glue ready” they claim) but currently the only 24T blade I have is the Dewalt one that came with the saw. I don’t know how rough of a cut that would make, but I’ll have to try it out.

View theart's profile

theart

93 posts in 915 days


#16 posted 12-14-2018 02:42 PM

One way to clean up the burn marks is take a second pass with the fence nudged over just a tiny bit. Use feather boards to hold the stock tightly against the fence. You will still need to sand afterwards.

Also, something like this is a much better tool for trimming splines than a chisel or miter saw:
https://www.irwin.com/tools/handsaws/dovetaildetail-saw

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

1365 posts in 1177 days


#17 posted 12-15-2018 12:30 AM

Even a modestly priced random orbital sander will erase a lot of little mistakes pretty easily, including wood burning and not meeting exactly flush.

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