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View MJClark's profile

Master Kill Switch/Lock?

by MJClark
posted 12-07-2018 03:23 PM


17 replies so far

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

9226 posts in 1499 days


#1 posted 12-07-2018 04:08 PM

Based on what you want to do, I think I’d run a subpanel then run all of the shop outlets off of it. Then you can just throw the breakers as opposed to having to run switched circuits for the breakers. If you feel that it’s necessary to lock out access to the breakers, get a box that will let you put a small padlock on it.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View YesHaveSome's profile

YesHaveSome

155 posts in 619 days


#2 posted 12-07-2018 05:00 PM

Yep, sub panel.

-- But where does the meat go?

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

5961 posts in 1073 days


#3 posted 12-07-2018 06:42 PM

DITTO +3 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :<))

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

9226 posts in 1499 days


#4 posted 12-07-2018 07:16 PM

I should add… check your local codes. I don’t think there’s any issue with locking the enclosure on a subpanel but I’m not an electrician either :-)

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View RobHannon's profile (online now)

RobHannon

258 posts in 891 days


#5 posted 12-07-2018 07:24 PM

Locking a subpanel closed, at least in my area, is a no-no unless there is a disconnect within 3’ i think. Locking something off is fine, but you could also lock them on and I think that is where the safety concern comes in. I’m actually not sure if I have seen a panel that locks closed that does not have an exposed main breaker.

Better option in my opinion would be to put a disconnect that can be locked off prior to the sub panel. Look so a single throw safety switch rated to match the sub panel. Probably $150 range.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

9226 posts in 1499 days


#6 posted 12-07-2018 07:31 PM

Makes sense Rob^. OP says his main service panel is in the garage too so if he keeps it within 3’ of that, I imagine the main disconnect there would fit the bill. Of course I guess it’s a moot point if you can’t buy a subpanel with a lock :-)

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

580 posts in 272 days


#7 posted 12-07-2018 07:58 PM

A friend of mine had 120 to his 3 car garage. We dug a trench from house to the garage, and ran new underground wiring from the house panel to the garage. We installed a sub-panel and ran a couple lines for 240 outlets, and some lines for 120 every 4’ for outlets. we also ran wiring for new overhead lights. We also installed a 12’ long workbench on the back wall. The electricity to the garage can be shut off at that main panel in the house or from the sub-panel in the garage.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

9226 posts in 1499 days


#8 posted 12-07-2018 08:09 PM

I’m in the process of doing the same with my son for his detached garage WoodenDreams. We have the panel ran and two 20A circuits for 115 outlets. We put outlets every 5-6’ at a height of 4’ off the floor so they won’t get blocked. We also alternated which circuit the outlets were on. That way he doesn’t have all the outlets on the wall next to his workbench on one circuit and all the outlets on the wall that’s mostly storage on another. Tomorrow we’ll be running a circuit for lights and hanging those and that’ll be all the help he gets from me this year ;-)

To clarify though, are you saying from the main service panel you ran a 230V breaker out to the garage and connected that to the main disconnect on another panel?


A friend of mine had 120 to his 3 car garage. We dug a trench from house to the garage, and ran new underground wiring from the house panel to the garage. We installed a sub-panel and ran a couple lines for 240 outlets, and some lines for 120 every 4 for outlets. we also ran wiring for new overhead lights. We also installed a 12 long workbench on the back wall. The electricity to the garage can be shut off at that main panel in the house or from the sub-panel in the garage.

- WoodenDreams

My understanding is that if it’s a subpanel, it can’t have a main disconnect because then you essentially have 2 breakers on the same circuit. I don’t know why that’s not allowed but I don’t think it is.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

7475 posts in 3729 days


#9 posted 12-07-2018 08:22 PM

I added 220 volts to my garage with a remote shut off panel located high enough so that kids can’t reach it.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Steve's profile

Steve

1222 posts in 943 days


#10 posted 12-07-2018 08:42 PM

I want 220 in my garage. Hell, I’d settle for a 3rd circuit. lol

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

9226 posts in 1499 days


#11 posted 12-07-2018 08:54 PM

Running 220 is simple Steve if you just need a single circuit and have the capacity in your service panel.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View YesHaveSome's profile

YesHaveSome

155 posts in 619 days


#12 posted 12-07-2018 09:55 PM

I installed a 100 amp panel in my garage. Ran 4 110 circuits. Two on each of the main walls. There are two duplex outlets in each box every four feet or so and each are on different circuits. When my DC was mobile that was pretty handy since I could plug the tool and the DC into the same box and not worry about having to run cords or blowing breakers.


I m in the process of doing the same with my son for his detached garage WoodenDreams. We have the panel ran and two 20A circuits for 115 outlets. We put outlets every 5-6 at a height of 4 off the floor so they won t get blocked. We also alternated which circuit the outlets were on. That way he doesn t have all the outlets on the wall next to his workbench on one circuit and all the outlets on the wall that s mostly storage on another. Tomorrow we ll be running a circuit for lights and hanging those and that ll be all the help he gets from me this year ;-)

To clarify though, are you saying from the main service panel you ran a 230V breaker out to the garage and connected that to the main disconnect on another panel?

A friend of mine had 120 to his 3 car garage. We dug a trench from house to the garage, and ran new underground wiring from the house panel to the garage. We installed a sub-panel and ran a couple lines for 240 outlets, and some lines for 120 every 4 for outlets. we also ran wiring for new overhead lights. We also installed a 12 long workbench on the back wall. The electricity to the garage can be shut off at that main panel in the house or from the sub-panel in the garage.

- WoodenDreams

My understanding is that if it s a subpanel, it can t have a main disconnect because then you essentially have 2 breakers on the same circuit. I don t know why that s not allowed but I don t think it is.

- HokieKen


-- But where does the meat go?

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

9226 posts in 1499 days


#13 posted 12-07-2018 10:36 PM

Dang, I didn’t think to run both circuits to each box. My DC is portable which is exactly why I had the thought to alternate circuits from one outlet to the next.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

1226 posts in 1855 days


#14 posted 12-08-2018 11:22 AM

+1 National fire code forbids locked breaker panels, unless a rated disconnect switch for the panel is available, labeled, and within 3 ft.

So if you want to lock an entire shop breaker panel, just install master switch next to it. Can be lockable disconnect like above example, or even AC disconnect where you pull a plug and rotate a plug to turn off power.
Note – There are height installation requirements for disconnect; so local code may not allow you place this too high for kids to reach, and you end up needing a pad lock to lock it off.

A slight shift on locking out breakers is to use commercial breaker ‘lock out/tag out’ devices designed for your breaker panel to only lock individual breakers. BORG sells these devices, search for ‘lockout kits’. Basically a clip that prevents breaker from being turned on, with removing the clip/wire/lock.

Another idea is to simply use the existing locking mechanisms included in most power tools made since 50’s. There is safety code that all ‘stationary’ tools are required to have local lock out mechanism for power switch.
If you look closely on generic 2 button switches there is a hole through the ‘ON’ switch for a pad lock. Every cabinet saw I have ever seen has this provision. These use the standard long reach lock out pad locks.
Many folks like Craftsman, Ridgid, etc; use switch with yellow removable key (like this one ) to disable power.
Separate devices on each tool are more annoying and time consuming. But it enables lock out only on tools needed, while you teach your kids wood working. :-)

In my shop, everything is mobile and has power cord, even 240V devices. To keep my kids (and wife – yes, she has ‘bumped’ power switch before) safe, I unplug the cords at end of day, or for long breaks. I can’t stop them from plugging something in and getting into trouble, but I’ve trained them to leave them alone.

Lots of ways to keep kids safe from power tools. Personally think one of the best ways is to teach them safe woodworking at young age. :) I let my kids help me sand/stain/finish projects around 5-6 years old. By age 9 both my sons were big enough to be using the band saw (with supervision) to cut derby cars from pine blocks. :)

Hope this helps. Cheers!

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View Fresch's profile

Fresch

424 posts in 2282 days


#15 posted 12-08-2018 04:51 PM

Circuit breaker lock

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

16104 posts in 2979 days


#16 posted 12-08-2018 04:57 PM

Hand tools. No need for all that electricity and the safety concerns that go along w/ heavy equipment.

(tongue planted firmly in cheek)

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

580 posts in 272 days


#17 posted 12-09-2018 03:40 AM

We installed a shut off switch at the feed line to the garage at or next to the main panel at the house. this way you don’t have go to the garage to shut off the sub panels power.

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