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Considering Buying a SawStop - Thoughts?

by WoodshopTherapy
posted 11-10-2018 10:38 PM


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105 replies

105 replies so far

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5595 posts in 2915 days


#51 posted 11-14-2018 01:53 PM


I just checked Acme. It says free shipping, but it has a “special handling charge” of $250.

- firefighterontheside

That’s new to me, they didn’t charge it when I bought mine. Is their listed price $250 Less than other places? Something makes me think they were playing games with the shipping charges when I bought mine. The games were that whether the shipping was free or not, the end price was the same everywhere.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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firefighterontheside

20381 posts in 2278 days


#52 posted 11-14-2018 02:20 PM

Their listed price for the 3hp 36” fence is exactly the same as everywhere I’ve looked. $2899. Everywhere I’ve looked, the price to put the saw in my shop is within $20. The only difference is caused by sales tax rates of different cities.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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firefighterontheside

20381 posts in 2278 days


#53 posted 11-14-2018 02:25 PM

I’m going to call them and talk about it. I put the saw in my cart and pretended to check out. It showed the saw price and the handling charge, but then the total did not actually include the handling.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View jamsomito's profile

jamsomito

432 posts in 848 days


#54 posted 11-14-2018 02:50 PM


I m going to play the other side, I would not buy a SawStop. I ve used one a lot, it s a great saw but I use dado blades a lot and when you change to the dado blade you also change and adjust the cartridge. Also your Delta is a right tilt and the new SawStop is left tilting. Third, I had a student cut off a finger with the Sawstop, he had the saw unplugged and the blade was jammed. When he unstuck the blade it spun and took off his finger, because it was unplugged it didn t activate the cartridge.

- Jacksdad

This sounds horrendous, but I’m scratching my head as to how it can happen. How was it jammed, an offcut in the trunions or something? Was there residual tension in the belt? I don’t understand how there was enough energy in the system to cut through a finger if it was unplugged, but it seems as though this could happen on any saw if that was truly the case.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1328 posts in 2374 days


#55 posted 11-14-2018 02:50 PM



One thing I can recommend is that if you will need to move it around much the industrial dolly. That is if you re getting the Professional or Industrial saw. The dolly that comes with the Professional is well made but it s three point and only one wheel turns. Moving it in a tight space isn t easy.

- Craftsman on the lake

The PCS base is four point and two wheels turn. I agree that the ICS base is more maneuverable, but the PCS base is certainly not a show stopper. Then again, I rarely need to move my saw. As is always the case, dollys with a set of fixed wheels like the PCS base are best steered by grabbing onto the end with the movable wheels. Sort of like driving a forklift or pushing a wheelbarrow.

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firefighterontheside

20381 posts in 2278 days


#56 posted 11-14-2018 03:52 PM

Fred, I confirmed with Acme. Unfortunately they said there is a 250 charge. It’s probably a game they play. No matter what, you pay about the same to get the saw.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5595 posts in 2915 days


#57 posted 11-14-2018 07:40 PM

Thanks for that….interesting.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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ArtMann

1399 posts in 1238 days


#58 posted 11-14-2018 08:47 PM

You have no evidence to make such a ridiculous statement. I have been doing without a Sawstop for over 40 years and haven’t cut myself yet. Most table saw users don’t. I know quite a few users and I don’t know anyone who cut themselves. I know several people who have gotten hurt with kickbacks but Sawstop is no better than any other brand in that regard. Only a small and typically careless or ignorant minority hurt themselves this way.

I don’t say Sawstop doesn’t have good technology or isn’t worth buying but you are wildly exaggerating the danger by saying everyone who uses a table saw will eventually have an accident.


You need to answer only one question. How much is a finger or hand worth. It doesn t matter how careful you are and sometime something unexpected is going to happen.

- johnstoneb


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Craftsman on the lake

2990 posts in 3859 days


#59 posted 11-14-2018 09:06 PM



You have no evidence to make such a ridiculous statement. I have been doing without a Sawstop for over 40 years and haven t cut myself yet. Most table saw users don t. I know quite a few users and I don t know anyone who cut themselves. I know several people who have gotten hurt with kickbacks but Sawstop is no better than any other brand in that regard. Only a small and typically careless or ignorant minority hurt themselves this way.

I don t say Sawstop doesn t have good technology or isn t worth buying but you are wildly exaggerating the danger by saying everyone who uses a table saw will eventually have an accident.

You need to answer only one question. How much is a finger or hand worth. It doesn t matter how careful you are and sometime something unexpected is going to happen.

- johnstoneb

- ArtMann

================
“Every year more than 4,000 Americans suffer amputations — get their hands mangled using table saws. Upwards of 30,000 people wind up in emergency rooms with lesser injuries. “

Source:
https://www.npr.org/2017/08/10/542474093/despite-proven-technology-attempts-to-make-table-saws-safer-drag-on

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

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MrUnix

7408 posts in 2621 days


#60 posted 11-14-2018 09:38 PM

I have been doing without a Sawstop for over 40 years and haven t cut myself yet. Most table saw users don’t. I know quite a few users and I don’t know anyone who cut themselves. I know several people who have gotten hurt with kickbacks but Sawstop is no better than any other brand in that regard.
- ArtMann

Gotta agree… I never have, and I don’t know of anyone personally in my 40+ years of use who has ever seriously cut themselves on a table saw either. Only on the web and in Sawstops fear based marketing material. I actually consider the table saw as one of the safer tools I use on a fairly regular basis, and I’ve done some pretty crazy crap on them over the decades.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

528 posts in 601 days


#61 posted 11-15-2018 12:13 AM

I agree that table saw accidents are not that common. But here’s the reason my next saw will be a SS.

It’s a great saw that don’t cost that much more than other cabinet saws. It’s quite possibly the cheapest insurance you can buy.

Was talking to my blade supplier about a new TS. He also sells jet, delta, PM. He told me to get a Sawstop. Said it’s just a great saw besides the safety feature.

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 925 days


#62 posted 11-15-2018 12:19 AM


Thank you everyone for your advice! Keep the comments coming as I m starting to see a theme here. Scott Bennett

- WoodshopTherapy

...and that “theme” is that those who bought one will whole heartedly recommend that you do the same. Don’t you wonder how much of that is personal justification? I just turned 57, been at this since 1975 when I was a kid and have never come close to a table saw accident. I hear all the clever selling talk…my favorite is, “how much is your finger/hand/arm worth?” My answer, not what they want me to say and probably by now what you want to hear has always been: “it’s worth enough that I am sure not going to cut it off while playing with wood!!!!”
In the last year I upgraded my table saw and I did not buy a Sawstop. I did look at them and I found no better quality at all and nothing that was a clear advantage as far as woodworking was concerned. My reasoning to not buy it {which after 60 posts all saying “oh my god you gotta have it” is probably mute} is this, the stop feature amounts to about $1000-$1100 of cost in the saw. It cost the same as the other top of the line cabinet saws so for this feature that does nothing to help the saws actual intended purpose why should I short myself of that much value? In effect, you are paying 3K and getting a 2K saw. Wait, “isn’t your finger worth $1000? Yep it absolutely is, and that is why I am not going to cut it off!!
The post about the cord falling on the blade and activating….as I understand how this thing works it should not have in this instance. A hot dog wont set it off when people try to demonstrate it {says Sawstop} for the same reason the cord that didn’t go thru to the wires inside shouldn’t…it’s supposed to have to hit something with electric current {however slight like your body} to activate.
This post will totally set off a bunch of fanboys….Buy it if you want to, but it’s really just a very clever and expensive sales gimmick that at the end of the day will not help you do better woodworking.

Edit: I wont say it is not without it’s place or purpose…if you are so scared of a tablesaw or cutting off an appendage that you are too nervous and cannot do the work and knowing you have this feature gets you past it, then get the thing. But then again, if you are in that boat you might want to consider a new hobby or line of work.

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

2990 posts in 3859 days


#63 posted 11-15-2018 01:07 AM

I’ve never had a serious car accident but I wouldn’t ride in a car without seatbelts and glad to have airbags.

Do a search for ‘table saw accidents’ on this forum….

Thousands of table saw amputations in this country each year.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

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firefighterontheside

20381 posts in 2278 days


#64 posted 11-15-2018 01:14 AM

I’ve gone to a few table saw injuries in my years as a firefighter. Not good. I have friends on LJ who have had injuries, but luckily not amputations. I have a firefighter friend who is also a very avid woodworker that had an injury last year. He recently got a SS. I’ve never had a blade contact, but I could. One of my LJ friends had an injury, because someone came into his shop and startled him. That could happen to anyone. I tell people not to come in when they hear machines running, but someone could come along that doesn’t know.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 925 days


#65 posted 11-15-2018 01:56 AM


...............because someone came into his shop and startled him. That could happen to anyone. I tell people not to come in when they hear machines running, but someone could come along that doesn’t know.

- firefighterontheside

Yes sir, this is a very good point…......but it doesn’t cost me $3000.00 to lock the door to my shop!!!!!

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runswithscissors

3052 posts in 2447 days


#66 posted 11-15-2018 01:58 AM

Am I the only one who finds the claim that there are “thousands of table saw amputations” every year a bit suspect? Heck, if you want big numbers, why not claim there are hundreds of thousands, or even millions?

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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Pogo930

18 posts in 1065 days


#67 posted 11-15-2018 02:30 AM

I own a Sawstop. No mention of the thought they put into tuning the saw. Table alignment is a dream. Table pivots on a stud and set screws push it right and left. No whacking the table with a rubber mallet to align. Arbor out of alignment there is an easy adjustment. Having refurbed a Unisaw, just reading the manual on adjustments would seal the deal.

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

528 posts in 601 days


#68 posted 11-15-2018 02:39 AM



Am I the only one who finds the claim that there are “thousands of table saw amputations” every year a bit suspect? Heck, if you want big numbers, why not claim there are hundreds of thousands, or even millions?

- runswithscissors

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was more than 1000 amputations. But think about how many times people put a piece of wood through a saw. It’s millions. So the percentage is extremely low.

I’m not really scared about having an accident, but here’s the thing-

It’s $1000. That really is the question. Is that safety feature worth 1000 to you?

For me it will be worth it. Since going full time I look back on stuff that cost $1000 more or less and think “$1000 bucks that that? Sign me up.”

Heck, explosion proof fan for spray booth was $1000. Probably have $1000 in a clamping system. $1000 in dust collection upgrades. $1000 in organization/shelving. On and on….

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

4049 posts in 2410 days


#69 posted 11-15-2018 02:52 AM

I could care less what saw you have .

The CPSC issued a report in 2011 titled ” Survey of Injuries Involving Stationary Saws”

There were an estimated about 40,000 emergency room visits per year due to table saw accidents with 4,000 amputations. YES, THERE ARE SEVERAL THOUSAND AMPUTATIONS PER YEAR.

Most if the accidents happened with no guard.

Most did not have riving knife.

35% Involved a kick back.

Believe what you want and buy what you want. They are your fingers and hands. If you think you can be 100% alert and safe you are better than me. AND GOOD LUCK

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7408 posts in 2621 days


#70 posted 11-15-2018 03:10 AM

It’s $1000. That really is the question.
- CWWoodworking

Nope – The extra $1000+ is just the initial hit you take up front.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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ppg677

216 posts in 1278 days


#71 posted 11-15-2018 03:19 AM

The fatality rate for general aviation is about 1 per 100,000 hours. Most of that is pilot controlled rather than mechanical failures. Which means if you fly 4 hrs/week for 25 years, you have a 5% chance if dying if you go by averages. Sure, a lot of pilots claim they’re safe and don’t make mistakes.

I wish we had similar data on table saw use and accidents. But if the accident rate per 5000 hrs of use is even 0.1%, the $1000 insurance policy is well worth it to me. I suspect the rate of blade-to-flesh accidents might well exceed 1 per 5 million hours of use (which corresponds to a 0.1% rate per 5000 hrs).

People claiming table saws are safe because they’ve never had an accident or that none of their 15 acquaintances/friends have ever had accidents…and claiming this is why others shouldn’t spend an extra $1000 for a SawStop? I think you’re rather foolish and need to think more in terms of actuary science (i.e., risk management based on numbers).

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Craftsman on the lake

2990 posts in 3859 days


#72 posted 11-15-2018 05:10 AM

I don’t see what the argument is. Accidents are just that. Sometimes they are because of carelessness and other times they are because we just forgot something. That may be careless but may the person who was never been thoughtless about something or other at some time cast the first stone.

So, anyone who says it could never happen to them are fooling themselves. But, that being said, if anyone wants to take that chance, well there are a ton of saws out there that will let you. Get one, it shouldn’t matter to anyone what your choice is. The others, pay the extra for the protection if you want. It’s not an argument, just a personal decision.

I don’t ride a motorcycle. I’ve got people who care about me. Others do ride them. That’s fine with me. I do drive a car because I must. Still I’d be kidding myself if I thought I was the one immune to an accident no matter how careful I am.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View basset's profile

basset

19 posts in 3822 days


#73 posted 11-15-2018 05:41 AM

I really like the quality of my SawStop. It’s one of the early models made back before they were sold in most woodworking stores. I bought it after I showed the SawStop videos to my wife. As soon as she saw what it did she told me to buy one. In addition to the brake the saw has an excellent guard and riving knife. I use them whenever a cut allows them to be used. As others have mentioned it’s still of paramount importance to still follow all the safety practices and not use the saw when you’re tired or distracted by something. My wife and I look at the SawStop as an investment similar to an insurance policy. The price difference was far less than a trip to the hospital after a table saw accident.

-- Don aka Basset Hound, www.woebgonbassets.com

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5595 posts in 2915 days


#74 posted 11-15-2018 11:56 AM

Well, I see this one went sideways, as do most posts that mention Sawstop. Geezzzzz….... it always turns into a battle between the haters and the lovers (I’m in the latter group).

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

4049 posts in 2410 days


#75 posted 11-15-2018 12:22 PM

Yes, we have been thru all of this before.

Most will agree that it is a well built saw in terms of fit, finish and quality. It has a good riving knife and guard with relatively good dust collection.

People disagree on the need for the safety feature. Some think it’s great and others believe it is not necessary.

There are some who believe kick backs are a bigger danger. But, the CPSC report estimates that only about 35% of emergency room visits were the result of kick backs

Some disagree with the number of accidents and amputations. The numbers are there. If someone has a source which disputes the CPSC report the please show them.

Bottom line is if you want a Sawstop buy one. If you think the safety of the Sawstop is unnecessary, then buy something else. What else is there to say.

I forgot one thing. If you hate the inventor, then do not buy one.

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jonah

2075 posts in 3720 days


#76 posted 11-15-2018 01:49 PM

A Sawstop isn’t $1000 more expensive than a comparable saw. It’s more like $300-$500 more, depending on your comparison point. Considering the risks to even careful table saw operators, $500 isn’t much for insurance against blade contacts. Sure, it doesn’t prevent kickbacks, but it’s progress nonetheless.

I absolutely can’t stand the “I’ve been using table saws for 493 years and I haven’t had an accident yet, thus it’s not possible for me to have an accident, thus safety features are dumb” argument. That is completely illogical. Just stop.

I’m not saying everyone should buy one, but if somebody wants a quality table saw, they’d be foolish to not consider a Sawstop.

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 925 days


#77 posted 11-15-2018 03:10 PM


A Sawstop isn t $1000 more expensive than a comparable saw. It s more like $300-$500 more, depending on your comparison point. Considering the risks to even careful table saw operators, $500 isn t much for insurance against blade contacts. Sure, it doesn t prevent kickbacks, but it s progress nonetheless.

I absolutely can t stand the “I ve been using table saws for 493 years and I haven t had an accident yet, thus it s not possible for me to have an accident, thus safety features are dumb” argument. That is completely illogical. Just stop.

I m not saying everyone should buy one, but if somebody wants a quality table saw, they d be foolish to not consider a Sawstop.

- jonah

You missed the point, twice. No one said the SS is $1000.00 more than anything. It’s actually a little cheaper in total price than the PM2000, the saw it is probably most often compared to when shopping for a new machine. The point you missed is that the feature everyone thinks is so great amounts to about roughly $1000 of the cost of the SS, so in terms of table saw if they both cost the same the SS is $1000 LESS of a saw because the greatest “feature” in the world has nothing to do with actually doing what it’s made to do. One could argue that the gold paint job is $1000 more….okay, so don’t buy one.
No one said, “it’s not possible for me to have an accident”....any one can have an accident, but I haven’t yet and am completely comfortable with staying exactly as I am. Now, if you “cant stand that” and I need “to just stop”....yours to get over, or not.
No one said it’s not quality either, they seem fine to me, I am just not going to short change myself over a feature I do not need/want. If you want one buy it, if you are really that in love with it then marry it. Just don’t expect the rest of the world to be a lemming over it too.

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muleskinner

932 posts in 2858 days


#78 posted 11-15-2018 04:08 PM


Well, I see this one went sideways, as do most posts that mention Sawstop. Geezzzzz….... it always turns into a battle between the haters and the lovers (I m in the latter group).

- Fred Hargis

LOL. I’ve been away from this site for about a year. When I start reading again a week or so ago I looked at the forums and thought “hmmm, the great SawStop controversy must have died down.” Now this thread. ;-) .

Since we can’t argue about politics, religion, or sex here I guess SawStop is all we have left. ;-)

-- Visualize whirled peas

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Craftsman on the lake

2990 posts in 3859 days


#79 posted 11-15-2018 05:45 PM


LOL. I ve been away from this site for about a year. When I start reading again a week or so ago I looked at the forums and thought “hmmm, the great SawStop controversy must have died down.” Now this thread. ;-) .

Since we can t argue about politics, religion, or sex here I guess SawStop is all we have left. ;-)

- muleskinner

Why can’t we argue about sex?

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

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moke

1388 posts in 3198 days


#80 posted 11-15-2018 06:21 PM


LOL. I ve been away from this site for about a year. When I start reading again a week or so ago I looked at the forums and thought “hmmm, the great SawStop controversy must have died down.” Now this thread. ;-) .

Since we can t argue about politics, religion, or sex here I guess SawStop is all we have left. ;-)

- muleskinner

Why can t we argue about sex?

- Craftsman on the lake

Put me down as being for it…..

-- Mike

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moke

1388 posts in 3198 days


#81 posted 11-15-2018 06:31 PM

Firefighter….I believe there are multiple Acme tools….not affiliated with each other….I may be wrong, but there are at least three. The Acme “tool Crib if the North” is based out of North Dakota, with stores in three or four other States. There is an Acme out east some where and I thought one other. The ND one only has stores in the mid west…..I am in Eastern Iowa and that is where I do business and they have no shipping and a tommy lift truck. I have bought most of my larger tools from them for that reason. It is easier and most of the time cheaper. Most larger towns have a tool store with a similar type scenario. I try to buy from them whenever possible so they can stay in business. It is nice to be able to go somewhere and get a quick product without waiting for amazon to deliver it.

-- Mike

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jonah

2075 posts in 3720 days


#82 posted 11-15-2018 07:12 PM



You missed the point, twice. No one said the SS is $1000.00 more than anything. It s actually a little cheaper in total price than the PM2000, the saw it is probably most often compared to when shopping for a new machine. The point you missed is that the feature everyone thinks is so great amounts to about roughly $1000 of the cost of the SS, so in terms of table saw if they both cost the same the SS is $1000 LESS of a saw because the greatest “feature” in the world has nothing to do with actually doing what it s made to do. One could argue that the gold paint job is $1000 more….okay, so don t buy one.
No one said, “it s not possible for me to have an accident”....any one can have an accident, but I haven t yet and am completely comfortable with staying exactly as I am. Now, if you “cant stand that” and I need “to just stop”....yours to get over, or not.
No one said it s not quality either, they seem fine to me, I am just not going to short change myself over a feature I do not need/want. If you want one buy it, if you are really that in love with it then marry it. Just don t expect the rest of the world to be a lemming over it too.

- msinc


You missed the point, many times. “People” estimate the safety feature as $1000 of the cost of the saw, based on… what exactly?

If that were the case, comparable quality saws from other manufacturers would be $1000 cheaper than Sawstops. But they aren’t. They’re either similar in price (PM2000) or ~$300 cheaper (Jet, Unisaw).

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firefighterontheside

20381 posts in 2278 days


#83 posted 11-15-2018 07:21 PM

I don’t consider that to be true either. If I wasn’t buying a 3HP PCS, I would buy a 3HP Grizzly for around 1600. From the grizzlies I have had, I consider them to be high quality.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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jonah

2075 posts in 3720 days


#84 posted 11-15-2018 08:26 PM

Grizzly saws, while undoubtedly decent tools, are certainly not in the same class as Sawstop when it comes to fit and finish.

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Aj2

2321 posts in 2220 days


#85 posted 11-15-2018 08:58 PM

What if grizzly didn’t name their machinery after the the North American Apex animal. And instead they were called pandas or lucky gold fish would you guys feel the same owning one?

-- Aj

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muleskinner

932 posts in 2858 days


#86 posted 11-15-2018 10:28 PM


LOL. I ve been away from this site for about a year. When I start reading again a week or so ago I looked at the forums and thought “hmmm, the great SawStop controversy must have died down.” Now this thread. ;-) .

Since we can t argue about politics, religion, or sex here I guess SawStop is all we have left. ;-)

- muleskinner

Why can t we argue about sex?

- Craftsman on the lake

Because there’s really nothing to argue about. ;-)

-- Visualize whirled peas

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firefighterontheside

20381 posts in 2278 days


#87 posted 11-15-2018 10:45 PM



Grizzly saws, while undoubtedly decent tools, are certainly not in the same class as Sawstop when it comes to fit and finish.

- jonah

I agree with that completely, but I don’t need fit and finish. I need functionality. My old grizzly contractor saw was very accurate and ran as smooth as anything. If it wasn’t for the fact that I’ve decided to go for the safety function, I would be getting the grizzly and saving over $1000.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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newwoodbutcher

794 posts in 3272 days


#88 posted 11-15-2018 11:51 PM

A buddy of mine has a new SS, I’ve worked with it a couple of hours and believe that If I were in the market for a new saw I would definitely get the Saw Stop. His has the sliding table attachement and I would’t recommend it. It rolls nicely and is good for holding big wood, but the Fence is… clunky, the tightening knob has broken twice so he had a machinist make him a part and did some welding. I don’t know the whole story with the broken fence tightening knob but I do personally find the fence adjustments… awkward I love my Grizzly 691, I use a Dubby Cross Cut Sled and love it. For my work the Dubby beats the SawStop Sliding Table for 90 % of my work.

My recommendation, Get the Saw Stop and the Dubby Cross Cut Sled.

-- Ken

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ArtMann

1399 posts in 1238 days


#89 posted 11-16-2018 03:44 AM

Are you quite finished beating up that straw man? I just re-read the whole thread and I can’t find where anyone claimed that future accidents were 100% preventable due to previous experience. You just made that up. What I did say, and continue to say, is that it is not inevitable, or even probable, that a table saw user will have a life altering accident. The fact that I, and all the woodworkers I know, have avoided it for 40 to 50 years is pretty good statistical evidence to that effect. In fact, government statistics even illustrate that. An estimated 30,000 injuries a year is bad but with an estimated 30,000,000 table saw users, that is only one in a thousand. Once you take into account inexperienced, careless or incompetent users, the probability for experienced and careful users being hurt is low indeed.

I don’t claim that the purchase of a Sawstop for people in high risk categories is unreasonable. I already said that in case you missed it. Were it not for the disgusting unethical behavior of former Sawstop Chairman Stephen Gass, I might even have bought one. I do think that the high price of Sawstop “insurance” may not be justified for some users. I don’t have earthquake or flood insurance either because these events are statistically very unlikely where I live.

I absolutely can t stand the “I ve been using table saws for 493 years and I haven t had an accident yet, thus it s not possible for me to have an accident, thus safety features are dumb” argument. That is completely illogical. Just stop.

- jonah


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000

2859 posts in 1321 days


#90 posted 11-16-2018 04:28 AM

I’m neither for or against SS
I ran my fingers into the blade about 19 years ago, mangled up 3 fingers, came out with 1 finger a 1/2” shorter and the knuckle won’t bend, so I won’t say pretty lucky, but not too bad.
I still don’t feel the need for having one, but that’s not to say I wouldn’t entertain the thought if I were to replace my delta I have now. And besides, what are the stats of it happening twice? lol

And for the car accident arguments, why don’t we wear helmets?
Head trauma is the leading cause of deaths in a car accident.
Anybody have stats? I just love stats that make a topic sway your way.

Bottom line, Just get what you want.
Let the wanters want, and the don’t wanters to don’t want.
There is no winning this discussion, no need to try.

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

979 posts in 3505 days


#91 posted 11-16-2018 11:21 AM



Let the wanters want, and the don t wanters to don t want.
There is no winning this discussion, no need to try.
- jbay

Well said Obi wan…

I d like thoughts from SawStop and non-SawStop users to help me decide if it s worth the investment. What to you think?
- WoodshopTherapy


The quality and features are as good or better than the unisaw you have, so the only thing to consider is the safety feature.
Your the only one who can answer that question.
The naysayers arguments are typically nothing more than dick measuring vitriol.

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5595 posts in 2915 days


#92 posted 11-16-2018 11:31 AM


Were it not for the disgusting unethical behavior of former Sawstop Chairman Stephen Gass, I might even have bought one.

- ArtMann

I think that right there is the biggest reason these debates go on, and the root cause of a lot of the opinion against SS. Like you said, “former” chairman…he’s taken the money and ran; so it’s not (to me) a valid reason for the anti-SS rage anymore, yet it goes on. Just my take on things.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

4049 posts in 2410 days


#93 posted 11-16-2018 12:08 PM

Gass is typical of so many businesses today.

Good or bad they are all out to make money as that is why they are in business.

View Woodword's profile

Woodword

2 posts in 238 days


#94 posted 11-30-2018 07:10 AM

For those who, for whatever reason, are incensed regarding the political/legal issue associated with Sawstop, bear in mind that the inventor (Steve Gass) tried to interest major tablesaw manufacturers in his invention but none were interested. Had he not gone the extra mile to get these manufactured, no one would had the benefits of the extra safety that this saw provides. If you had come up with the invention, then gone through the hurdles of getting it manufactured, would you NOT want to protect your product from trade pirates?

As other owners have pointed out, many owners buy their saw for the added safety, but most of us (and I own two Sawstops) appreciate them as much for the build quality. I also work in one of the two national woodworking store chains and have assembled a number of saws, both Sawstop and several other brands. The quality of the machine, itself, is tops, as is the packaging and the manual. I have the Industrial Cabinet Saw and the Jobsite Saw and don’t regret for a moment having paid the price for the Sawstop. As one other owner mentioned, after having checked his saw’s setup accuracy with a dial indicator, the precision right from the factory is amazing.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5572 posts in 3665 days


#95 posted 11-30-2018 07:06 PM

The sawstop has been a hot topic ever since it was first introduced and it will remain so into the future. There is no question that the sawstop is a safe saw. The question is; do you feel you need that level of safety. There are many that say they prefer conventional saw design and others who say safety is their number one priority. I personally am in the former camp. I have been around dangerous machines most of my life and have remained in one piece. Machines are like firearms. You learn to respect what they can do. When a police officer, military person or hunter learns how to respect and use a firearm, that firearm becomes a friend, not a feared enemy. The same can be said of people who use dangerous machines like saws. Once you learn to respect the saw, it too can become a friend that will do what you need it to do. Like firearms, dangerous machines are a double edged sword. Only respect and knowledge will keep you safe.

When we refer to police officers as professionals, you can go one step further and declare someone well trained in the use of a saw as a professional. I take safety very seriously. I feel that someone who has not been trained in the use of a firearm, should not have a firearm and conversely, if a person has not been trained in the use of a machine, should not have that machine. That is my take on the subject of safety. Work safely with that machine or don’t work at all. That’s where the sawstop comes in. If you don’t think you can work safely with a conventional saw, then the sawstop is right for you.

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

2990 posts in 3859 days


#96 posted 11-30-2018 07:42 PM

I see your point but…..
An average of 16,300 accidental gunshot wounds per year (latest study 1999) in the US. And about 500 deaths (more recent statistics).... so.
If you had a well made gun that you could buy that cost a bit more but somehow had technology built into it that pretty much guaranteed no accidental discharging by you or anyone using it would you consider it a good thing? Would you consider buying it? Even if you are highly trained in firearm use would it be worth it? If you had kids around, would it be worth it?
I know that tech isn’t around and probably never will be but I’d jump on it.

Even with my 40+ years of table saw use and trying to be as careful as I can, I’ve had a couple of close calls when the wood jumped the blade and pulled my hand with it, even with a riving knive. I didn’t get hurt but I had the same feeling as I’ve had with a close call in a car. The, “what this could have been” feeling adrenaline shakes afterwards.

When I decided to upgrade my old saw it was a no-brainer for me. When My young nephew and son in law asked about a table saw to get I told them there was only one choice. They are in their early thirties. One’s a musician.
My oldest daughter is an engineer but also a concert violinist. She’s worked with me to make some furniture for herself. She used all the tools but I would not let her near the table saw. Now, with me around I let her make her own cuts.

Everyone should have the safety or no safety mechanism choice for a saw option, but to deny that it is not better to have it is not sensible in my view.


The sawstop has been a hot topic ever since it was first introduced and it will remain so into the future. There is no question that the sawstop is a safe saw. The question is; do you feel you need that level of safety. There are many that say they prefer conventional saw design and others who say safety is their number one priority. I personally am in the former camp. I have been around dangerous machines most of my life and have remained in one piece. Machines are like firearms. You learn to respect what they can do. When a police officer, military person or hunter learns how to respect and use a firearm, that firearm becomes a friend, not a feared enemy. The same can be said of people who use dangerous machines like saws. Once you learn to respect the saw, it too can become a friend that will do what you need it to do. Like firearms, dangerous machines are a double edged sword. Only respect and knowledge will keep you safe.

When we refer to police officers as professionals, you can go one step further and declare someone well trained in the use of a saw as a professional. I take safety very seriously. I feel that someone who has not been trained in the use of a firearm, should not have a firearm and conversely, if a person has not been trained in the use of a machine, should not have that machine. That is my take on the subject of safety. Work safely with that machine or don t work at all. That s where the sawstop comes in. If you don t think you can work safely with a conventional saw, then the sawstop is right for you.

- MrRon


-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

2321 posts in 2220 days


#97 posted 11-30-2018 08:19 PM

I think Woodword likes Sawstop.

-- Aj

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5572 posts in 3665 days


#98 posted 12-01-2018 04:57 PM

As I said; there are people on both sides of the sawstop debate. It will never be settled. Who is right and who is wrong? No one. I don’t think it is right for anyone to condemn others for what their belief is. I have been condemned for eating a hot dog without mustard or any other condiments. To each his own.

View BroncoBrian's profile

BroncoBrian

875 posts in 2380 days


#99 posted 12-01-2018 06:01 PM



Well, I see this one went sideways, as do most posts that mention Sawstop. Geezzzzz….... it always turns into a battle between the haters and the lovers (I m in the latter group).

- Fred Hargis

Yep – this is a ridiculous thread.

If you break down the thread, the lovers are noting that it might save them trouble one day and it a GREAT saw now, and they can afford it.

The haters think they know more about patent law than attorneys, don’t know anyone who has been injured, cannot afford it, did not buy one and now want to justify why, or think that an advertisement that demonstrates a cool feature is a scam of some kind.

And some of you should understand how many people there are in the world using tools. I have two friends who are anesthesiologists at two different hospitals in Colorado Spring. This is a pretty small city and they both said there are multiple table saw accidents per week. So even if that was 2-4 per week in a town of about 400,000 in it’s surrounding area, that is a lot of injuries and a lot of money.

-- A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10858 posts in 1908 days


#100 posted 12-01-2018 07:57 PM

Alright. That’s it. Let’s measure genatalia. Going up against me will make everybody feel better :)

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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