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View tsbot's profile

Last coat help.

by tsbot
posted 11-07-2018 12:04 AM


24 replies so far

View Sludgeguy's profile

Sludgeguy

57 posts in 685 days


#1 posted 11-07-2018 12:14 AM

I would lightly sand with 400 and use satin

View BroncoBrian's profile

BroncoBrian

875 posts in 2521 days


#2 posted 11-07-2018 01:28 AM



I would lightly sand with 400 and use satin

- Sludgeguy


+1 If you don’t have them, the festool foam sanding pads ($.69 ea) are cheap and work great. I keep a stash of a few grits for this.

Another issue I can see. You jointer is awful. You should wrap it up, put it on a pallet and send it to the address I am sending you. Stick to hand planes. I will find a use for the jointer.

-- A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer.

View tsbot's profile

tsbot

52 posts in 1136 days


#3 posted 11-07-2018 02:36 AM

I would lightly sand with 400 and use satin

- Sludgeguy

+1 If you don t have them, the festool foam sanding pads ($.69 ea) are cheap and work great. I keep a stash of a few grits for this.

Another issue I can see. You jointer is awful. You should wrap it up, put it on a pallet and send it to the address I am sending you. Stick to hand planes. I will find a use for the jointer.

- BroncoBrian

Thank you both. I’m going to do one more coat of satin poly then finish this weekend. Haha on the Jointer – just picked it up last week – need to do a full setup and rotate the helix cutters. I’m pretty stoked. Got a good 50” straight edge from lee valley being delivered today. The wood whisperer has a setup video I plan on watching a hundred times. Can’t wait to use it!

View John_'s profile

John_

220 posts in 2268 days


#4 posted 11-07-2018 03:09 AM

I am not sure if it is me or if it is the pics – but it does not look like you have enough finish applied?

If you lightly sand the surface (320 or higher) do you get rid of all the shiny spots?

View tsbot's profile

tsbot

52 posts in 1136 days


#5 posted 11-07-2018 04:14 AM



I am not sure if it is me or if it is the pics – but it does not look like you have enough finish applied?

If you lightly sand the surface (320 or higher) do you get rid of all the shiny spots?

- John_H

Just 2 coats poly and 2 coats danish oil. It’s well covered but will prob do one more coat.

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

830 posts in 473 days


#6 posted 11-07-2018 06:40 AM

Nice looking tabletop, If your doing the finishing in the shop, you could be getting wading dust falling onto your finish. On my tabletops I apply 5 coats.

View LittleShaver's profile

LittleShaver

599 posts in 1182 days


#7 posted 11-07-2018 02:10 PM

Wipe on poly does not build much with each coat. I’d go for 5-6 coats. BTW, you can take gloss to satin with 0000 steel wool. I’m also a hand work guy, so I remove nibs by lightly scraping with a single edge razor blade held vertically.

-- Sawdust Maker

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

9374 posts in 2891 days


#8 posted 11-07-2018 02:16 PM

FWIW, I agree with your wife. The high gloss distracts from what is otherwise a very nice looking top.

-- Matt -- I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam

View HokieKen's profile (online now)

HokieKen

11567 posts in 1701 days


#9 posted 11-07-2018 02:24 PM

I agree with the wife too, that will look much nicer with the sheen knocked back a bit IMO.

First, I feel like 220 is a bit coarse to be sanding with between coats. I usually opt for more like 400 or maybe 320 at the most. Personally, I used to do as you plan by setting the sheen with the final coat. But, I’ve found that it’s just as effective to use full gloss for all coats then knock back the sheen with a very fine wet/dry paper or steel wool. I think one way is as effective as the other but the latter method means I only have to have one can of poly on hand.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View BroncoBrian's profile

BroncoBrian

875 posts in 2521 days


#10 posted 11-07-2018 02:35 PM



I am not sure if it is me or if it is the pics – but it does not look like you have enough finish applied?

If you lightly sand the surface (320 or higher) do you get rid of all the shiny spots?

- John_H

I agree with you John. For a gloss finish, it is too thin. You can see smooth gloss areas and valleys. The satin will resolve that.

-- A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer.

View tsbot's profile

tsbot

52 posts in 1136 days


#11 posted 11-07-2018 02:59 PM

Thank you all! Back to work – I’ll add a few more coats before knocking the sheen down. Appreciate all the reply’s.

View DBDesigns's profile

DBDesigns

232 posts in 560 days


#12 posted 11-07-2018 03:12 PM

I Noticed that no one has mentioned wet sanding the surface with 400 or finer black sandpaper. You can get a “baby-butt smooth surface” this way. Also, That is a really nice looking table top. Be proud.

I like to use gloss and buff/sand it to satin for the final coat but I have never used the wipe on products. I use a fine china bristle brush and thin the coating until it slides out and doesn’t leave brush strokes. I use the same technique with oil paint on painted surfaces.

-- I remember when Grateful wasn't Dead

View Sark's profile

Sark

223 posts in 923 days


#13 posted 11-07-2018 03:26 PM

Rubbing down the finish is pretty much the cats meow, if you want that baby-skin smooth texture. It doesn’t really matter if your final coat is gloss or satin, the finish will still benefit from that final rub-down either with 0000 steel wool or finishing pads. When I had a spray booth, the finishes came out quite dust free and smooth with a professional look. We weren’t going to take the time for hand work. But when we did do a final rub-out those cabinets doors always looked and felt better.

I agree with DBDesigns that wet sanding with 400 or finer sandpaper is a great treatment. I usually start rubbing out with 600 grit, then 1000, 2000 and 4000. I use Abralon pads on my orbital sander, though I just as often sand things out by hand. Sometimes, if the finish is pretty smooth, I would just do the final rub starting with 2000 grit. Abralon pads are fabulous, they last a long time. I think your piece would benefit from a few more coats of finish, since wipe-on finishes are so thin. But definitely sand between the coats with a hard block so the highs and knocked down a bit, and the lows are raised up. 320 or 400 grit would be good for this.

Old finisher’s trick is to have all the under-coats be gloss (for brilliance) and the final coat satin. That gives a nice depth without the work of rubbing out the final gloss coat to satin. But then, you’re going to rub it out anyway, so gloss is just fine for all the coats. In fact, I think that final coat should be gloss. That way, you get total control of the final sheen. If you want more gloss, just rub out with finer pads (say 8000 grit), or less sheen, use 4000 grit or 2000 grit.

Wax will give that final touch that you will and your wife will absolutely love. I wax all pieces. Waxing over poly is just fine, done it thousands of times. But what wax? I suggest brown colored paste wax. It goes on thin, adds a just a bit more depth, and of course smoothness. If there are large open grains in your piece, then the paste wax will stick in the grains and be more difficult to rub off. If those cases, I use McGuires detailing liquid available at any auto-parts store. Absolutely clear, super thin, water-proof, high-tech detailing solution designed for cars is a super useful item to finish off your project or any other woodworking project. I gave a bottle of detailing liquid to all my customers, because they always wanted to know, how do I clean and wax the wood in this brand-new cabinet? Detailing liquid from the auto-parts store is the answer. It never gums up, doesn’t build thickness, is easy to apply. Give it a try.

Cheers.

View John_'s profile

John_

220 posts in 2268 days


#14 posted 11-07-2018 05:04 PM

I will have to look at “Abralon” pads, but here is something I have been using even when I spray – Trizact sand paper. It comes in handy when your spraying say the front of a face frame and you get some overspray that dries rough on the adjacent side

I use the 3000 grit (they have up to 5000) and I first came across Trizact in one of those ‘headlight’ polishing kits. It has like a foam backing and works great for ‘damp’ wet sanding and the piece is big enough to fit into a hand block sander.

View LesB's profile

LesB

2238 posts in 4005 days


#15 posted 11-07-2018 05:48 PM

I agree with several comments. #1 you probably could use more coats because wipe on is very thin. So for better durability I would add two or three more. #2 The rub down of any finish will improve the results. I often use 0000 steel wool and a carnauba type paste wax as a final rub to remove any dust tips and to just burnish the finish to a satin texture. Wait at least 72 hours before applying the wax to give the finish time to cure

If it has been more than about 72 hours since the last top coat was applied I would lightly sand it with 320 sand paper before applying the next coat to make sure you get a good bond.

-- Les B, Oregon

View Sark's profile

Sark

223 posts in 923 days


#16 posted 11-07-2018 05:53 PM

Trizact looks perfect. Never used it, because I got started on Abralon which have pretty thick foam pads, work in the orbital sander, can be used wet (maybe prefer being wet). Abralon pads are quite soft and can’t be used for leveling. Used a lot in the automotive finishing world. For general orbital sanding I use Mirka abrasives screens (incredibly good), and for general hand sanding blue foam-backed sandpaper by Sia called SiaSpeed.

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

4326 posts in 1136 days


#17 posted 11-07-2018 06:13 PM

To those saying the coat is too thin, are you seeing the flourescent lights reflected on the table?

I would suggest either a 320 level or higher grit paper, or a fine steel wool to knock down the nibs, which are a normal thing on most build up finishes. Once you get it down pretty smooth, and always on the last coat of finish I use a brown paper bag just as I would sandpaper, and go over the entire finish. Over satin finishes it adds a warmth, and depth like nothing else. Use the satin, see what the Better Half thinks.

Future hint, especially in something this big, is to prep a piece of stock exactly as you did the table, and practice on that, a section at a time. Write down every step you make for each area, and see which one the boss likes. It saves you so much time, and automatically gets you into happy spouse, happy house land :)

-- Think safe, be safe

View John_'s profile

John_

220 posts in 2268 days


#18 posted 11-07-2018 06:35 PM

Here is a pic to explain what I previously mentioned

This is a test piece using General Finishes Black Polyurethane. I keep applying coats (I spray) until I get to the point that all the shiny spots (depressions that have not been filled in and leveled by the finish) are gone when I do a light ‘scuff’ sand. At this point, I am ready for the final coat

View Rich's profile

Rich

5001 posts in 1152 days


#19 posted 11-07-2018 06:42 PM

The simplest solution would be to apply a couple of coats of a satin wiping varnish. When you have exposed pores like that, gloss looks horrible, but satin softens the effect. You still have the texture of the wood rather than a piano finish. I did a wenge vanity top that way and it looked great.

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4600 posts in 4304 days


#20 posted 11-07-2018 09:25 PM

Do the 0000 and wax.

Ask wife if she likes that sheen.
If still too shiny….then apply satin.

For the nibs… get a piece of a brown paper bag. and rub the surface, relatively lightly (like just 4-5 swipes).... it will be magically smooth as a baby petutie… The little nibs, are “locked” standing up by the finish. That paper swipe will knock all the nibs off without really affecting your finish sheen or leaving any scratches….
Try it out… if it wasn’t agressive enough… you can always go with abralon, or wet sanding or something more abrasive after… but give the brown paper 12 seconds of your time first.

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

View tsbot's profile

tsbot

52 posts in 1136 days


#21 posted 11-07-2018 11:16 PM

Thank you all for the kind words, by far my biggest piece yet. The poly did look thin after a quick light sand and now I do plan on adding 2-3 more coats to the top. Will probably leave the bottom, drawers and drawer sides with 3 coats. I like Sark’s plan, it’s kind of everything I’ve been looking into. I’m just starting out this whole real woodworking thing so it’ll be cool to see the different mediums ie 0000 wool, wax etc.

I was going to use the Johnson’s Paste Wax – what I use on my iron tops – any thoughts on that? Although that McGuires Detailing Liquid looks interesting because I can see how the depressions may ‘trap’ wax.

I really do appreciate all the knowledge and quick responses – what a great resource!

View Sark's profile

Sark

223 posts in 923 days


#22 posted 11-08-2018 12:38 AM

Johnson’s paste wax is fine, but its not colored. Over darker furniture, I always use colored paste wax…I bought a can of it about 10 years ago, and there’s still plenty left. So unfortunately (or fortunately) you only need a tiny bit of wax but you need to buy a whole tin. Here’s a link to what I use. Liberon sells a wax polish in 150 ml tins (about 5 OZ) and I think they have a brown. Detailing Liquid is a lot cheaper, and available everywhere.

Regardless, have fun with your finishing touches. You can move your piece from the very nice category, to something that really zings, and people love to run their hands along a nicely finished, rubbed out and waxed table top.

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

528 posts in 741 days


#23 posted 11-08-2018 01:04 AM

Try the brown paper bag. It works to an extent.

Have you considered spraying? I’ve never made anything that nice, but my finish looks great cause I spray.

Over the years I think I used every wipe on this or that imaginable. None are 1/10th of a good sprayed finish as for as look, feel, quality, speed, durability, etc.

Or think of it this way. you have 2 grand sitting there in a jointer, and your using a rag and mostly solvent to finish that beautiful top? Just a thought.

Great job on the top.

View Rich's profile

Rich

5001 posts in 1152 days


#24 posted 11-08-2018 04:45 AM

I m just starting out this whole real woodworking thing so it ll be cool to see the different mediums ie 0000 wool, wax etc.

- tsbot

I commend your desire to learn. Prepare for some frustration trying to rub out a surface that size for the first time.

Trust me, if you want to just be done with it and have a beautiful table top, do the satin wiping varnish. Minwax wipe on poly works. I like Waterlox satin urethane. There are a few dozen more that will be beautiful.

You’ve gotten some good advice from several experienced people on this thread. But that’s the thing, they have experience. It takes practice to get a perfect, swirl free surface at just the sheen you want.

Anyway, I wish you the best. Stick with it and you’ll be turning out beautiful pieces. Just don’t expect a wad of 0000 steel wool and a can of wax to get you there first try.

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