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View Rink's profile

Resaw frustration

by Rink
posted 11-04-2018 07:55 PM


29 replies so far

View hemioutlaw's profile

hemioutlaw

4 posts in 383 days


#1 posted 11-04-2018 08:39 PM

New here and far far far from an expert but I believe that you are ripping with the grain which is causing it to seperate. I believe a planer is the tool that should be used for what you are trying to do.

Again, I’m no expert, just my two cents.

-- Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did.

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2758 posts in 2677 days


#2 posted 11-04-2018 08:44 PM

JMHO, not sure it’s fault of the saw or blade, think you are trying to cut case harden wood or wood that was improperly dried.

-- Bill

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2171 posts in 1146 days


#3 posted 11-04-2018 08:46 PM

There is no shortage of posts here regarding resaw frustrations.

First question…Did you follow the Holy Grail of BS setup a la Alex Snodgrass? That is absolutely step # 1.

You said you “digitally” set the fence parallel to the blade, and tightened down both ends of the Delta fence. First thing I notice from your picture is that there is a gap at the top of your fence/board and none at the bottom so the fence/board does not appear square to the blade.

Is the table square to the blade? If so, is the fence square to the table?

IS THE BLADE SHARP?? If so a 1/2” blade may not be rigid enough for the job. If you have at least a 14” saw maybe try a 3/4” blade?
You say you have tightened the blade properly. What are you using to determine this?
Are you cutting thin veneer? If so, are you slicing to the inside or the outside of the blade? I’d suggest leaving the cutoff to the outside using something similar to these jigs.

The BS is probably the hardest tool to setup IMO. A LOT of moving parts and adjustments that are all related to each other.

I ve adjusted the blade tracking so that the gullet in the middle of the tire.

- Rink

Try centering the blade, not the gullet then adjust for any drift. Some saws behave better that way.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View northwoodsman's profile

northwoodsman

259 posts in 4289 days


#4 posted 11-04-2018 08:49 PM

Before you give up try a new blade. I have a Laguna carbide tipped blade and I can consistently cut 1/16” slices all day long without hardly any effort. I had some cuts that looked like yours with a bad blade. The teeth on one side of the blade hit a guard when I forgot to tension the blade so the teeth on one side were dull while on the other side sharp and it would wander all over the place no matter what I did. Don’t go cheap on the blades, buy the best you can find or you will have a big, expensive machine that will just take up space and collect dust. You don’t have to go to carbide ($$$) to get a good blade but WOW, what a difference.

-- NorthWoodsMan

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1900 posts in 2726 days


#5 posted 11-04-2018 09:12 PM

You’re trying to do veneers, I guess? Assuming that your saw is perfectly set up a la Snodgrass, I agree that your blade is probably the culprit. That, and you’re pushing your saw beyond it’s capabilities for veneer work. Go slightly thicker to accommodate the kerf of your blade.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View Jim Finn's profile

Jim Finn

2754 posts in 3464 days


#6 posted 11-04-2018 09:27 PM

The fact that you have any drift shows you do not have a sharp blade.

-- No PHD just a DD214

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2028 days


#7 posted 11-04-2018 09:35 PM

Set the guides as close to the work as you can as well.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3558 posts in 2023 days


#8 posted 11-04-2018 10:38 PM

Few questions and a couple comments.

Sounds like you’ve done everything right.

What do you mean by “tighten the blade properly”? I hope you’re not using the gauge. I suggest tighten the dog doo doo out of it. If you’re worried about too much tension, don’t be. You can’t over tighten a 1/2” blade on a 14” bandsaw.

Second, forget about chasing down the “holy grail” hat was mentioned (gotta laugh at that) because what a lot of people apparently don’t know is Snodgrass’s tune up doesn’t work on every bandsaw.

My suggestion is track the blade in the middle, readjust your guides and see if that helps. With the Snodgrass “gullet in the middle” sounds good, but some saws the blade may be tracking off center when you put pressure on it. Crowned tires are intended ot have the middle of the blade ride on the center of the crown.

What kind of blade are you using and how new is it?

A dull and/or too loose blade will belly out and/or follow the grain maybe this is what’s happening.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2171 posts in 1146 days


#9 posted 11-04-2018 10:57 PM


Second, forget about chasing down the “holy grail” hat was mentioned (gotta laugh at that) because what a lot of people apparently don t know is Snodgrass s tune up doesn t work on every bandsaw.

My suggestion is track the blade in the middle, readjust your guides and see if that helps. With the Snodgrass “gullet in the middle” sounds good, but some saws the blade may be tracking off center when you put pressure on it. Crowned tires are intended ot have the middle of the blade ride on the center of the crown.

What kind of blade are you using and how new is it?

A dull and/or too loose blade will belly out and/or follow the grain maybe this is what s happening.

- rwe2156

I just think the “holy grail” is a place to start if you’re starting from scratch which is why I suggested that you track your blade in the middle vs the gullet like Snodgrass says. That is also why I asked about what method he was using to decide on proper blade tension and asked if the blade was sharp so I think we’re kinda saying the same thing. He needs a baseline to start from and Snodgrass is that baseline IMO. Good luck with it.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Knockonit's profile

Knockonit

614 posts in 744 days


#10 posted 11-04-2018 11:07 PM

rink, I sure know your frustration, i too struggled thru the resaw goal, tuned, and re tuned, new guides, urethane tires, blades ect. but not till i purchased a good brand name blade did i find success. and now with my 20 inch delta, i just got some blades from highland and well the 3/4 cuts like budda. I also have a 3/4 on my 14 inch, from olson, does ok, no complaints,

trick is don’t give up, when you feel the end is near and the big fing hammer is gonna come out to educate the saw, it all comes together
best of luck Rj in az

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 1046 days


#11 posted 11-05-2018 12:51 AM

I have a two year old PM1500 saw. The only time I am able to cut a nice re-saw is when the blade is razor sharp {which typically isn’t very long}. The only time I cannot cut a good re-saw and have trouble is when the blade is dull. It doesn’t take much use for these new band saw blades to quickly get too dull to perform re-saw work. Little nit pickety adjustments, tensions, etc. have never stopped me from getting usable re-saws. Adjustments don’t have to be dead on to re-saw, but they have to be within reasonable close. Yours sound way better than that. Only a bad blade will ruin the work. When I say “bad” blade, I mean bad for use re-sawing, I do not mean bad for band sawing in general use.
Any blade that has any amount of time on it, even if it was treated perfectly and always kept in perfect adjustment will just not do when we are talking re-saw. The blade that has been on your saw for a while and still works just fine for general band saw work WILL NOT GET IT when it comes to re-sawing.
As posted, buy a carbide blade if you intend to do much of any re-saw work, it is cost effective in the long run. When you figure out that you pretty much need a new blade every time you need to re-saw some wood all of a sudden the cost of a good carbide re-saw blade will make sense.
You can fight it playing with adjustments…I have seen guys replace everything up to the entire saw, but what ultimately solved the problem was always a razor sharp, new blade. Best of luck.

View Rink's profile

Rink

140 posts in 580 days


#12 posted 11-05-2018 03:44 AM

Okay, the consensus seems to be that the blade is a very good candidate for being the problem. I don’t have time tonight to try a new blade, but I’ll report back when I do.

What I have on the saw right now is a Kerfmaster Blade from Spectrum Supply. I don’t remember how I got to them, but they seem reputable.

The one I’ve been using to try to resaw is 105”, 1/2” wide, 0.22” thick, and “Vari-tooth standard set 3/4”.

I’ll take that one off and put on a new, unused 105”, 5/8” wide, 0.16” thick, and “Vari-tooth standard set 3/4”.

Crossing my fingers that hat solves the problem. If it does, and then if it gets dull quickly, I’ll look into a carbide blade.

David

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4592 posts in 4285 days


#13 posted 11-05-2018 04:33 AM

The issue to me is going to be as follows –
I have a ~2001 Delta 14 inch saw with the 6 inch riser block, running 1/2 inch wide 3 tpi 105 inch blades.
I have not changed to Carter guides, but do use “Cool BLocks” to guide the blade, and the old style thrust bearing mounted 90 degrees to the blade.

First thing I would look to is a sort of featherboard to keep the bottom tucked in – - I have a magnetic one. Challenge is always that you are watching the top edge being cut, but keeping the bottom tight to the fence is difficult, especially cutting for 2-3 feet…suspec the “blown out” section in your pic is at the bottom.

Thrust bearing spacing – WHen you are ‘Pushing”... are you inducing deflection
which goes hand in hand with Blade Tension

Sharpness of the blade
Finally
Cutting speed. You are cutting through and moving a lot of chips…something like 1/2 per second…even through by feel the blade will cut much faster – - the cut will be rough, and the blade will want to barrel.

I would try cutting thicker first – get a 6 inch wide board that is say 1/2 inch thick – and try to ‘Split it down the middle.

work your way down to cutting 1/8 strips. They will need surface prep anyway, .like drum sanding at that thickness… you can’t really run 3/32 through a planer to get to 1/16.

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

4154 posts in 1116 days


#14 posted 11-05-2018 04:53 AM

I ll take that one off and put on a new, unused 105”, 5/8” wide, 0.16” thick, and “Vari-tooth standard set 3/4”.

David

- Rink

David I am not sure what you are saying there? Is it a 5/8” blade, or a 3/4” blade? Do you mean 3 to 4 tooth per inch?

3/4” WILL NOT play well on that saw, your tires are crowned, and that area will support at best a 1/2” blade. For resaw you want the fewest teeth possible. Your best bet until you get a better feel for this is sawing slower and use a 3/8” blade and cinch that puppy down till you can play it like a guitar, forget that tension gauge.

Seriously you want it tight so pushing in on the blade will only deflect inward 1/4” MAX. Anything sloppier than that will allow wander, and drift. You won’t get good cuts. Tight is right, loose is $#!+

You might want to put in a location on your profile, City and State are more than adequate. Could be a guy lives 1/2 mile away, that could show you what many are saying here.

-- Think safe, be safe

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

4154 posts in 1116 days


#15 posted 11-05-2018 05:05 AM


The issue to me is going to be as follows –
I have a ~2001 Delta 14 inch saw with the 6 inch riser block, running 1/2 inch wide 3 tpi 105 inch blades.
I have not changed to Carter guides, but do use “Cool BLocks” to guide the blade, and the old style thrust bearing mounted 90 degrees to the blade.

First thing I would look to is a sort of featherboard to keep the bottom tucked in – - I have a magnetic one. Challenge is always that you are watching the top edge being cut, but keeping the bottom tight to the fence is difficult, especially cutting for 2-3 feet…suspec the “blown out” section in your pic is at the bottom.

Thrust bearing spacing – WHen you are Pushing”... are you inducing deflection
which goes hand in hand with Blade Tension

Sharpness of the blade
Finally
Cutting speed. You are cutting through and moving a lot of chips…something like 1/2 per second…even through by feel the blade will cut much faster – - the cut will be rough, and the blade will want to barrel.

I would try cutting thicker first – get a 6 inch wide board that is say 1/2 inch thick – and try to Split it down the middle.

work your way down to cutting 1/8 strips. They will need surface prep anyway, .like drum sanding at that thickness… you can t really run 3/32 through a planer to get to 1/16.

- DrDirt

YES

Tall fence to give solid support to the left of the blade. If you are resawing 12” have at least a 10” tall fence. Make that fence square, straight, flat, and true. Something at right angles so you can firmly clamp it to your table.

Then YES again, a featherboard to keep the board from drifting off the blade. Those mag switch suckers are worth every penny. Slap em anywhere, and turn that dial. Frozen in place.

Something I am not sure if anyone said, and I do it, but usually never think to say it….....

You can do all of these things, and still get squat if that board is rough, and isn’t dead flat on the side facing the fence. Trying to run a cupped, twisted, crappy board against the fence will get you 2 crappy boards. You MUST face joint, or plane that reference face/edge on every pass. No jointer or planer, you will need to buy S4S stock, or have a buddy process it for you.

-- Think safe, be safe

View Robert's profile

Robert

3558 posts in 2023 days


#16 posted 11-05-2018 02:40 PM

I think you’ll find a new blade is the answer.

I’ve used the Woodslice available from Highland Hardware. Does a good job, but dulls fairly quickly.

Of course the ultimate is to bite the bullet and go with a carbide blade.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2758 posts in 2677 days


#17 posted 11-05-2018 04:31 PM

If really the blade at fault wood recommend Highland, Wood Slicer over Timber Wolf blades. Biggest reason being user reviews.

https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/wood-slicer-resaw-bandsaw-blades.aspx

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/premium-resaw-bandsaw-blades/

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/22678

If want a less expensive option would look at Lenox flex back carbon steel blades:

https://www.bandsawbladesdirect.com/lenox-flex-back-carbon-steel-band-saw-blades

Only blades use on my 14” saw without riser block. Usually cut wet & dry logs and get long use out of them.

Would never recommend BI-Metal or Carbide steel blade for a 14” BS, although many folk will.

-- Bill

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4592 posts in 4285 days


#18 posted 11-05-2018 11:05 PM

Michael Fortune is great for working with a 14 inch bandsaw and 1/2 inch blade.

He came and spoke to the wood guild in Tulsa, and our guild was invited, so a few of us made the trip back in ~2011 or so.
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2011/04/22/how-to-resaw-on-the-bandsaw-video

Our Guild buys blades from BC Tool…. ~12-15 dollars each for 105 inch blades, when bought in bulk… our group was ordering about 90 at a time.
http://www.ccwwa.org/NEWSITE/plans/BandsawTuneup1.pdf

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

4154 posts in 1116 days


#19 posted 11-05-2018 11:27 PM

BC tool went down the drain, and the company that took them over doesn’t do any BS blades anymore, and took the name to Colorado. I've switched to SuperCut BS blades, great welds, great folks, just not gonna Amazon them out to you

Fortune is the prince of Bandsawville. Kinda cranky sometimes, but he knows what he’s doing. I saw him twice at WIA events. I can honestly say I would have thought a hand tool class would have been my most learning, but it was Fortune as my top 2 classes. I thought I could resaw pretty good before, LOL, NOT.

-- Think safe, be safe

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4592 posts in 4285 days


#20 posted 11-07-2018 07:49 PM


BC tool went down the drain, and the company that took them over doesn t do any BS blades anymore, and took the name to Colorado. I ve switched to SuperCut BS blades, great welds, great folks, just not gonna Amazon them out to you

Fortune is the prince of Bandsawville. Kinda cranky sometimes, but he knows what he s doing. I saw him twice at WIA events. I can honestly say I would have thought a hand tool class would have been my most learning, but it was Fortune as my top 2 classes. I thought I could resaw pretty good before, LOL, NOT.

- therealSteveN


Sold but that operation still is running
Same guy stillndoes their welding BC saw got bought by nap gladu, another canadian company. you can still order BS blades from them but i think you need to ask for BC saw when you call. the number is 800-457-7468. good luck!

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

View John_'s profile

John_

215 posts in 2248 days


#21 posted 11-07-2018 08:08 PM

I have a ‘double feather board’ from Rockler. They stack on top of each with spacers, and the top one is about 2 1/2” to 3” high which helps keep things tight to the fence

https://www.rockler.com/rockler-double-featherboard

Secondly, it was not until I actually broke down and spend the money on proper tension meter (Lenox) did I realize that I was severely under tensioning the blade. Basically the gauge on most bandsaws are a joke, so consider turning up the tension

View DBDesigns's profile

DBDesigns

232 posts in 540 days


#22 posted 11-07-2018 10:06 PM

Are you splitting boards or sawing veneer.
I finally tried the carpenter’s approach to splitting boards and snapped a chalk line down the edge of the board. Then just feed the board through the band saw freehand. It ain’t perfect but its as good as you are at sawing along a line. Then just plane the resulting board to the correct thickness.

If you are sawing veneer or thinner than 1/4” stock, run the boards across the table saw on both edges first. The table saw kerf will guide the band saw blade very nicely and the planer will give you a flat surface.

Both of these methods assume you don’t have a belly in the cut. If the cut bellies, the blade is too loose.
Good luck,
Tim

-- I remember when Grateful wasn't Dead

View ppg677's profile

ppg677

219 posts in 1398 days


#23 posted 11-08-2018 01:48 PM

For 7” and under, I personally found more reliability in resawing with my table saw and finishing with a handsaw for the 7”.

View Rink's profile

Rink

140 posts in 580 days


#24 posted 11-08-2018 06:15 PM

I still haven’t gotten the band saw dirty yet, but what I’ve done so far is:

-replace the 1/2” blade with a new 5/8” blade

-re-watch the Snodgrass video. One thing I was apparently doing wrong is that I was setting the Carter bearings close enough so that when I moved the wheels by hand, the bearings would occasionally move. Snodgrass said that could cause the blade to wander so I re-set the bearings so that they are as close as possible without any movement when turning the wheels by hand.

-I built a taller fence that will support the entire width of the board and will try that.

-I have a double feather-board similar to what John H. referred to above. it is about 2 1/2” tall when assembled. I’ll try that.

Question/problem – When I try to tension the 5/8” blade, I compress the spring all the way. I know this is not a good idea. I think the blade is tight enough when I do this, but I’m not sure. Will a new spring allow me to put higher tension on the blade without completely compressing the spring? If so, will this spring work?

Thanks,
David

View Rich's profile

Rich

5001 posts in 1132 days


#25 posted 11-08-2018 06:52 PM


If so, will this spring work?*

- Rink

Yes it will. I put one on an old saw whose spring had gotten soft and it’s very stiff. You’ll be able to get good tension without compressing it fully. Just be sure it’s the right inside diameter.

View DBDesigns's profile

DBDesigns

232 posts in 540 days


#26 posted 11-08-2018 09:22 PM

I have a new spring on my old saw. (1939 Delta) It came from Highland Hardware (woodworking) here in Atlanta.
I am not afraid to compress the spring all the way because the spring is made of square steel instead of round so it doesn’t bend out of shape under compression.

It is just important not to leave it under tension when not in use and it should be fine. Sounds to me like blade tension is your primary problem from the start because you seem to have a firm grasp on the rest of the set-up. I was going to suggest a thicker blade with my last comment but I forgot. 5/8” should work. I use a 3/4” Wood Slicer, also form Highland. BTW, I have been re-sawing maple and mahogany lately and it has been going pretty smoothly.

-- I remember when Grateful wasn't Dead

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4592 posts in 4285 days


#27 posted 11-08-2018 10:04 PM

when you went through the Snodgrass tune-up…
does the saw cut dead straight? Or of you are cutting a line on a board, do you have to turn it to compensate for drift?
The taller fence MIGHT help, but only if it doesn’t flex when you push on it… so it needs to be rigid (or) you need to not push on the fence hard, just have it guide the piece – se the pic, you notice it is just fingertip pressure both to the fence and pushing the work through.

.When the blade goes in, is it centered lik this, or hugging one side?... If it isn’t straight… it won’t be straight…

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

View Rink's profile

Rink

140 posts in 580 days


#28 posted 01-09-2019 01:35 AM

I just realized that I never reported back. I purchased the Iturra spring, and that made the difference, I’m a happy bandsaw camper now.

David

View Woodbum's profile

Woodbum

898 posts in 3608 days


#29 posted 01-09-2019 12:28 PM

Blade, blade, blade. Dedicate one 1/2” 3-4 tpi good blade for resawing only and do not cut any curves with it. Set up the saw like you indicated above and you should see a marked improvement, I resaw with my 1997 Jet 14” with a dedicated Timber Wolf blade and have very few issues. The Woodslicer from Highland works well too. Try a dedicated new blade, you will be surprised.

-- "Now I'm just another old guy wearing funny clothes"

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