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View jamar1's profile

Would you buy this Saw Stop?

by jamar1
posted 11-03-2018 05:34 PM


33 replies so far

View jmos's profile

jmos

916 posts in 2912 days


#1 posted 11-03-2018 05:51 PM

If you don’t want the 52” table, I’d compare versus the set-up you would buy new. If you went with the 36” T-glide, that’s about $3000 (w/ dado cartridge.) $170 less with the stock fence.

Now the savings are down to $500 or less.

Remember, the 52” table includes rails; if you want to shorten it for your shop you are either cutting the rails down, or having to sell the 52” and buy shorter ones.

Unless he’s throwing in some other extras, SawStop or after-market (dust collection, mobile base, outfeed table…, or even a bunch of decent blades, his good miter gauge) I think for that savings I’d buy new, get hat you want, and get the warranty.

Either way, it’s a great saw. I have the same one and love it.

-- John

View Rayne's profile

Rayne

1246 posts in 2082 days


#2 posted 11-03-2018 06:02 PM

With the 52” rails, you’ll have some nice real estate to add a rolling cabinet underneath AND still probably have room for a router table in the extension. Serving multiple purposes may do well for you if you lay out your shop and use the extra length wisely. Just some food for thought.

View jamar1's profile

jamar1

14 posts in 423 days


#3 posted 11-03-2018 06:03 PM

John-
Very good points. This kind of confirms my thinking also.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7506 posts in 2742 days


#4 posted 11-03-2018 06:16 PM

For basically what he’s asking, you could get a brand new 3hp Unisaw w/36 inch Biesemeyer fence, or for a hair more, the 3hp Unisaw w/52 inch fence – which is more comparable to the ICS than the PCS (bigger table, couple hundred pounds heavier, no blade/dado restrictions, 5 year warranty instead of 2, etc…).

You aren’t getting much discount on that three year old used PCS, or any warranty support.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View jamar1's profile

jamar1

14 posts in 423 days


#5 posted 11-03-2018 07:11 PM

I don’t think selling the 52”TG is an option in Louisiana. Unlikely to find a buyer.
I did not consider adding a router lift to the extension. Something to consider.
As for Unisaw, I ha e excluded all other saws. As badly as I want a PM2000 or an old school Unisaw, my wife has involved herself in the decision and so I’m getting a Saw stop

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5809 posts in 3036 days


#6 posted 11-03-2018 08:00 PM

I’ not one to worry too much about warranties, but that’s just me. The Sawstop CS will be just as good with a used saw as it will with a new one, so that’s not a problem. Even so, his price strikes me as high for a used saw. So far used SSs do bring a higher price, but maybe not that high.You might also have to buy a mobile base….which will probably be free with a PCS here in another month or so (holiday specials).

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View RJweb's profile

RJweb

133 posts in 3175 days


#7 posted 11-03-2018 08:24 PM

I have a PCs 3 hp, as far as warranty I don’t thing you need it they are well built saws, of course he used it a lot being a cabinet builder, RJ

-- Life Begins @ 190 MPH

View jamar1's profile

jamar1

14 posts in 423 days


#8 posted 11-03-2018 08:36 PM

I will need a mobile base. I’ve heard that SS runs a once a year sale in March and April

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1380 posts in 2495 days


#9 posted 11-03-2018 08:41 PM

I have owned that saw with the shorter table for 4 1/2 years. Never needed to call Sawstop, let alone use the two year warranty. However, I think the asking price is a bit high given the age and the fact that it was probably heavily used in a cabinet shop As noted above, the price difference compared to the 36” rail model is the comparison you need to make. Others have asked if the price includes a mobile base. If not, remember that Sawstop frequently has offers that include a mobile base (NOT the ICS base but a mobile base that will work just fine for most users (it has for me and the price was ZERO)). Does the price include the overhead dust collection? That is a very nice option but it adds some more to the cost if you decide to go with a new saw.

If it were me, I think I would go for the new saw in the length I need for my shop, rather than trying to deal with the longer table saw. A $500 premium over the used saw was mentioned above. I would try to get a Sawstop deal with a free mobile base (or free dust collection). Then which ever of the latter two accessories I was lacking would be at the top of my Christmas list that I would hand to my wife.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1380 posts in 2495 days


#10 posted 11-03-2018 08:43 PM


I will need a mobile base. I’ve heard that SS runs a once a year sale in March and April

- jamar1

I mentioned that the lesser mobile base works fine for me. The ICS base is much nicer if you need to move the saw a lot. I do not need that. The lesser base has two fixed casters so it does require a bit more jockeying around to set the saw in place. If you will have to move the saw often you should seriously consider the ICS base.

View jamar1's profile

jamar1

14 posts in 423 days


#11 posted 11-03-2018 09:00 PM

A couple of you mention you own a SS.
They make 2 dust collection options.
Which do you have and would you choose it again?
I am looking at the overhead with the 4” swing arm. It seems more versatile. Only thing is it seems cumbersome. ANyone have experience to share?

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1380 posts in 2495 days


#12 posted 11-03-2018 09:34 PM



A couple of you mention you own a SS.
They make 2 dust collection options.
Which do you have and would you choose it again?
I am looking at the overhead with the 4” swing arm. It seems more versatile. Only thing is it seems cumbersome. ANyone have experience to share?

- jamar1

I have the PCS mobile base and the smaller overhead dust collection. The larger dust collector is not compatible with the PCS base, only the ICS base. I guess that is because it incorporates an additional outrigger leg to support the weight of the arm. My PCS mobile base lifts my 36” table and the smaller dust collector arm easily.

Between the 4” port in the base of my PCS saw and the overhead arm the dust collection is quite good, but not total (is it ever???). I always thought that the diameter of the exhaust pipe on the overhead arm should have been larger.

The smaller dust collector integrates with the blade guard. That unit incorporates a splitter and two sets of anti-kickback pawls. The larger collector is an overhead style and I assume (no personal experience) it only uses the built in riving knife. It also appears (no personal experience) to require a second dust collection system hookup. That could be integrated with the regular dust collection port at the base of the saw or it could be a dedicated line. I agree that the larger system looks really cumbersome. I never notice the arm of the smaller collector on my saw.

I like the blade guard that works with my collector. It has a couple of what I would call swiveling skirts that ride on the workpiece to help make the seal against escaping dust. It easily flips up to allow me to clearly see the blade for precise alignment of cuts. It is very easily swapped out for the riving knife. Takes 30 seconds max. One note on the regular dust collector. The body of the guard at the back (the business end where the guard swivels the hose connects and the housing for the anti-kickback pawls all meet) CAN block the passage of the work piece through the cut. That is the purpose of the black plastic triangular thing on the end of two black rods. If the piece fits under that it will not be impeded. I occasionally need to remove this device (simply squeeze the rods together and lift) if I am making a very narrow cut. The rods and triangle can interfere with using a push stick. Not a show stopper by any means.

View clin's profile

clin

1070 posts in 1539 days


#13 posted 11-03-2018 09:47 PM

Would I buy it? No.

I do have a 3 HP SS PCS and it’s a great saw. But, if the difference between what it will cost and what you want new (not what it would be new) is really just $500, I’d go new.

While you save $500, what you give up is knowing much if anything about how the saw has been used and possibly abused. It’s an unknown.

Also, depending on the situation, you may have a lot more trouble getting it home and setup. For example, I would assume the price is for you to come pick it up. Either you will need 2-3 others to help you load and unload it, assuming you have a truck or trailer. Or, you’ll have to break it down, load up the parts, and then put it back together.

With a new saw, at least it’s already broken down, maybe it would be getting delivered for free (or not depending on where and how you bought a new one).

Also, you don’t want a saw that big, so you have to put in the effort to cut the table down, or go through the hassle of trying to sell the longs rails, and then paying full price for the short ones.

Also, it may be in need of maintenance immediately. Such as a thorough cleaning and greasing.

I’m not saying any of this is extremely difficult, but it’s cutting into the value of the $500 you are saving. $500 is a really big deal to some people, and even doing a lot of their own work to save that, is something they prefer to do. For others, they have other ways they want to spend their time and perhaps $500 is easier for them to earn, so they choose to spend more. No right or wrong answer on that.

I wouldn’t be worried about a warranty, or lack of it. Warranties are generally meant to cover manufacturing defects that show up early in the life of a product. In this case, it’s been used and the bugs have been shook out, so to speak.

Of course it has wear, maybe a lot if used in a professional shop. it could easily have more “miles” on it in those three years than you would put on it in a life time assuming you are a hobbyist.

For me, I’d happily spend $500 more to get a new one and avoid the known hassles and any unknown problems.

By the way, the ICS mobile base is much more maneuverable than than PCS mobile base. Much more expensive, but if you expect to move the saw around in relatively tight spaces it so much easier. As already mentioned, the ICS base has 4 swiveling casters vs 2 fixed and 2 swiveling for the PCS base. You can spin the ICS base in place or just nudge it a few inches in any direction as needed, versus all sorts of back and forth turns with the PCS base.

I have the overarm dust collection. The guard itself is fixed to the table, so you have to remove the guard when you don’t want it. That is really quick to do. As for the hose and arm itself, it swings out of the way easily and I’ve never found had an issue with it being in the way.

I also built a folding out feed table. Note: The fixed part of the table serves two purposes. First it extend things past the DC connections. But mainly I did this so the outfeed is long enough that I can cut 8 foot long pieces and they won’t fall off the back. I.E., gives me a bit more than 4 feet from the back of the blade to the edge of the out feed. Hole is so I can access the DC port when the table is down.

-- Clin

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1380 posts in 2495 days


#14 posted 11-03-2018 10:05 PM

Yep, one huge issue that Clin brought up is getting the saw to your shop. That would require tearing down, transporting, and resembling the used saw. “Cost” to you in time and effort? A new one would be delivered nicely packaged with every nut, bolt, and washer shrink-wrapped onto a cardboard sheet that instructs you through the assembly process. Sawstop is amazing in this regard.

BTW, Clin. That is one beautiful out feed table. Is the hole for a router?

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8343 posts in 3918 days


#15 posted 11-03-2018 10:07 PM

Why not offer what you’re comfortable with for the used saw, and what you think is fair? If he says no, it makes the decision to go with a new one much easier.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1380 posts in 2495 days


#16 posted 11-03-2018 10:27 PM



Why not offer what you re comfortable with for the used saw, and what you think is fair? If he says no, it makes the decision to go with a new one much easier.

- knotscott

I think the OP is just trying to understand all of the variables to determine what a fair price (to him) would be and is looking for advice for those who might have more experience in similar transactions. Gathering data: Longer fence, shorter fence, cut the fence, no base, PCS base, ICS base, cost to move, warranty, dust collector?, what about that dado cartridge, maybe add a router, etc. Information to support that calculation is free here (and might just be worth the price of admission). It’s hard to wrap your head around all of the variables without some seat of the pants experience. He did start out the post with “first post about a tool”.

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

806 posts in 454 days


#17 posted 11-03-2018 11:14 PM

Depends how bad you want it. Valid point on the type of use it was put through. Was it a production line use. Do you have the room. For that price, how many extra woodworking goodies could he throw in, since he may not need some of his tools anymore. Stand your budget. Maybe he has other tools you could use instead.

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

4167 posts in 1117 days


#18 posted 11-03-2018 11:19 PM



Would I buy it? No.

While you save $500, what you give up is knowing much if anything about how the saw has been used and possibly abused. It s an unknown.

- clin

That’s yer nugget right there. 500 bux, no way, buy new. 1500 bux or more, yeah you have wiggle room if you find you need to buy parts. Same saw off an old retired guy where everything looks to be brand new, go for it, out of an active shop, nah, too much potential for misadventure there.

Offer less, see what he says, worst that will happen he may not build your cabinets…..

-- Think safe, be safe

View jamar1's profile

jamar1

14 posts in 423 days


#19 posted 11-03-2018 11:25 PM

Can’t thank you guys enough for the insight and opinion.
Great points made about the value of time regarding breakdown transport and set up.
My time is limited, help is scarce and nothing frustrates or pisses me off more than an assembly prolonged by missing or ill fitting parts or trying to work out or a grab bag of parts thrown together hastily after disassembly.(think kids bed after a move).
I am about 3 weeks from occupying my new shop and have time.
I’m going to purchase new and wait a bit for a free offer from SS.
I’ll update just for fun when I take delivery.

View FancyShoes's profile

FancyShoes

592 posts in 1907 days


#20 posted 11-04-2018 04:26 AM

I bought my $4500 sawstop at auction for $1300. 3rd one I bought at auction, sold 2 for that price used. Purchased at 3 for around $1500, I let anlther one sell at auction for $1100, then offered the guy $200 for the 7.5 hppbase converter.. so he got his for $900. He also had 3phase.. so there are great deals to be had on used ones.

View FancyShoes's profile

FancyShoes

592 posts in 1907 days


#21 posted 11-04-2018 04:26 AM

Oh there is a contractor saw stop at auction next week here in Indianaplis.

View FancyShoes's profile

FancyShoes

592 posts in 1907 days


#22 posted 11-04-2018 04:29 AM

View FancyShoes's profile

FancyShoes

592 posts in 1907 days


#23 posted 11-04-2018 04:30 AM

Oh the link, that is a left tilt saw as well.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5809 posts in 3036 days


#24 posted 11-04-2018 11:50 AM



A couple of you mention you own a SS.
They make 2 dust collection options.
Which do you have and would you choose it again?
I am looking at the overhead with the 4” swing arm. It seems more versatile. Only thing is it seems cumbersome. ANyone have experience to share?

- jamar1

I do, sort of. I have the ICS with an Excalibur overarm guard. The Excalibur design was bought by Sawstop, painted black, and listed as a Sawstop accessory. Mine was used on my Unisaw, so I just switched it over when I changed saws. Cumbersome? Maybe, but no more than any other overarm guard. What I like best is the DC, with a powerful collector it really catches most of the table top dust.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View jamar1's profile

jamar1

14 posts in 423 days


#25 posted 11-04-2018 01:58 PM

What are you using as a search word to find auction deals?
Also, of the multiple saw purchases mentioned, did you ship any or were they all local?

View jmos's profile

jmos

916 posts in 2912 days


#26 posted 11-04-2018 02:26 PM

I got the blade guard type dust collection when I bought my SawStop and really didn’t like it. I replaced it with a Shark Guard. I’ll sell you my parts cheap!

My big problem with it is that the connection between the hose and guard chokes the flow to such a small cross sectional area the air flow suffers. It really didn’t pick up nearly as well as I wanted. Given that they came out with a new version, with what appears to be a much larger cross section, I don’t think I was the only one who wasn’t crazy for the design. The new one looks much better, but I’ve never used it.

-- John

View FancyShoes's profile

FancyShoes

592 posts in 1907 days


#27 posted 11-04-2018 03:27 PM

I sent a list of auction sites I use. But there are many local auctioneers who dont use these sites, I would suggest finding all the auctioneers in the area you are willing to travel, and get on their mailing lists.

There is a massive auction in Ohio every year as well for woodworking machine called Airworks auction. Forgot to mention that one.

Follow my youtube channel, I will be making a in debth video on how I find auctions and the deals I see. I have been posting auction videos recently to help show that there are deals, and a lot of times there are no deals as well..

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRERV7jm_q7JWwOu2ihG4_A

View jamar1's profile

jamar1

14 posts in 423 days


#28 posted 11-04-2018 04:13 PM

Subscribed.
Yep, seeing they are out there.
Seems like pick up is a must, so location is key.

Interesting to hear SS bough Excalibur DC design. It’s seemed to me they were the same design. Makes sense now.
Seems like the overhead would work better
With small stock than the guard attached DC.

View cracknpop's profile

cracknpop

360 posts in 2892 days


#29 posted 11-04-2018 06:15 PM

You’ve received some good advice above and sounds like you have come to a good decision that works for you. Enjoy your new shop and new saw.

For what its worth, a few years ago, I bought a used ICS with 52” rails from a cabinet shop for $1600. Stopped by Woodcraft on my way home and bought a SS mobile base and extra cartridge. I have had no issues with it and have no regrets in buying used.

-- Rick - I know I am not perfect, but I will keep pressing on toward the goal of becoming all I am called to be.

View fly2low's profile

fly2low

88 posts in 640 days


#30 posted 11-05-2018 08:53 AM

I got my SS 3 hp PCS last year while they were running their special. I had the choice of PCS mobility system or their smaller exhaust guard. I knew I wanted the ICS transport system, so chose the smaller dust collector/blade guard. I am glad I got the ICS mobility system, and have replaced the small dust collector/blade guard with a Shark guard. Much happier.
http://www.thesharkguard.com/
If anyone wants the SS small dust collector/blade guard PM me

-- Rich Gig Harbor, WA

View Vintagewood1960's profile

Vintagewood1960

52 posts in 1040 days


#31 posted 11-05-2018 03:00 PM

I used my warranty when a lightning strike caused the “arbor movement sensor” to blow. Not sure what it would have cost to repair but I was glad to have the warranty. I’ve often wondered if the motor bearings take a hit when the brake is activated. I understand that the unit is designed to handle the sudden stop but a commercially used saw may have been activated several times more than a homeowner saw. Just some thoughts.

View jamar1's profile

jamar1

14 posts in 423 days


#32 posted 11-05-2018 03:14 PM

Good point.
According to the owner, this saw has been activated more than once. I too, have wondered about the stress placed on the motor during activation.
As for the lightening strike, it’s probably a good idea to place a surge protector between the service and the saw.

View moke's profile

moke

1442 posts in 3319 days


#33 posted 11-05-2018 06:32 PM

I have that very saw, it is awesome, I used the over- dust collector, and hated it. Took it off about 2 weeks after installation. So I just used the dust collection at the bottom, and it is the messiest tool I use, but I just couldn’t tolerate that clumsy over arm system. So when I’m done I use a blow gun or small leaf blower to blow it off and use a rockler vac tool that fits on my 4’ DC. It takes some more time but works well. I put a compressed air drop over the saw and if you are careful you can direct it away form the saw periodically so you don’t track it all over the shop.

I have the PCS wheels set, and a good friend who recently got his, got the ICS…...no comparison, the ICS is so much more awesome than the PCS! I also bought the new out feed table that attaches, folds and rolls with the saw…..I would do that again in a minute.

My concern for buying this used saw has been stated, that saw was professional used, that compared with a premium price is a deal breaker for me. If you can afford it, I would go new and get just what you want. While I have the 52” it is a big mother…...It is very handy for breaking down plywood, but so are track saws…. just some more food for thought.
Just my .02

-- Mike

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