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Today vs Yesteryear

by MrRon
posted 10-26-2018 04:20 PM


39 replies so far

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diverlloyd

3707 posts in 2416 days


#1 posted 10-26-2018 05:14 PM

Well said MrRon

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ralbuck

6217 posts in 2825 days


#2 posted 10-26-2018 05:26 PM

I would love to be 21 again and KNOW WHAT I know now. I would take many paths different form those I traveled.

I want to live at least a couple of more decades to see what is developing in the industrial, scientific, medical, energy, and travel aspects of our “civilization”. The “political BS” being spread everywhere now makes the use of the term “civilized” very in-accurate! I just wonder which side is lying the worst; I know both sides are lying on every issue!

-- Wood rescue is good for the environment and me! just rjR

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mudflap4869

1999 posts in 2018 days


#3 posted 10-26-2018 05:45 PM

I learned several years ago that the majority of our young men and women are very responsible. They just lack proper leaders to set good examples for them. We the older generation failed to give them the loving attention that they deserved.

-- Still trying to master kindling making

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Phil32

721 posts in 462 days


#4 posted 10-26-2018 07:23 PM

Most all of the talent demonstrated on this site was obtained by effort & practice over significant time. We now live with a generation only interested in instant gratification.

-- Phil Allin - There are mountain climbers and people who talk about climbing mountains. The climbers have "selfies" at the summit! Likewise with woodworkers.

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JADobson

1448 posts in 2670 days


#5 posted 10-26-2018 07:57 PM



We now live with a generation only interested in instant gratification.

- Phil32

Said every old man of every generation. Damn kids.

-- No craft is very far from the line beyond which is magic. -- Lord Dunsany — Instagram @grailwoodworks

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1049 days


#6 posted 10-26-2018 07:59 PM



Most all of the talent demonstrated on this site was obtained by effort & practice over significant time. We now live with a generation only interested in instant gratification.

- Phil32

I think that is a bit unfair. I recently took a class a weekend class on turning, and most of the people enrolled were under 30. I also think most people here grew up ‘hooked’ on tv, or radio, or whatever it was that made the younger generation less worthy and softer than their elders.

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JADobson

1448 posts in 2670 days


#7 posted 10-26-2018 08:01 PM

Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more
worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more
corrupt.
—Horace “Odes” ~20 BC

-- No craft is very far from the line beyond which is magic. -- Lord Dunsany — Instagram @grailwoodworks

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1049 days


#8 posted 10-26-2018 08:03 PM



Our sires age was worse than our grandsires . We, their sons, are more
worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more
corrupt.
—Horace “Odes” ~20 BC

- JADobson

I think the line after that was ‘And get off my lawn.’

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Redoak49

4267 posts in 2547 days


#9 posted 10-26-2018 10:34 PM

It is very clear that the current younger generation is quite different as the digital devices are taking over. There are fewer shop type classes being offered as interest has dropped.

At the same time, The job openings in the mfg and construction trades has gone up.

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runswithscissors

3081 posts in 2584 days


#10 posted 10-27-2018 03:50 AM

I don’t think lack of interest is why shop classes aren’t offered. Due to the (over) emphasis on testing, budget doesn’t allow non-academic offerings. Not just shop, but music and art and foreign languages have gone away, largely. And it’s not just financial, it’s time budget as well that no longer makes room for those kinds of classes.

I have always felt it is foolish to demean and second-rate manual skills.. And I was an English teacher for 27 years. One of the skills that a well-taught shop class could teach was task analysis—what is the best approach to a task, and how should it be broken down. I see inquiries often in LJ that demonstrate a need for this.

People used to ask if I’d seen a change for the worse in kids. My answer always was, “They have always wanted two things: to be liked, and to succeed.” Trouble often follows when those needs aren’t met, for whatever reason.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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JADobson

1448 posts in 2670 days


#11 posted 10-27-2018 05:02 AM



There are fewer shop type classes being offered as interest has dropped.

- Redoak49

If schools stopped offering classes because of student interest would there be any classes left? Much more likely is that the parents and administrators (ie boomers) didn’t have much interest and allowed shop classes to disappear. You can’t pin this one on the kids.

-- No craft is very far from the line beyond which is magic. -- Lord Dunsany — Instagram @grailwoodworks

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Woodbum

898 posts in 3624 days


#12 posted 10-27-2018 10:06 AM

You are correct Mr Ron. Since the beginning of recorded history, older generations have bemoaned the worthless, lazy upstarts coming up, that will amount to nothing as they grow older. My parents’ generation did. We were just a bunch of dumb-*ss longhairs that only cared about sex, drugs, rock and roll and beer. I still care deeply about two of these, and have some fond (and not so fond) memories of the others. We turned out all right and this younger generation will too. They are just a little different than we are and maybe some of that different is better. Hopefully, they will “tough it out, suck it up and be the best they can”. Credits to John Mellencamp.

-- "Now I'm just another old guy wearing funny clothes"

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Redoak49

4267 posts in 2547 days


#13 posted 10-27-2018 10:46 AM

I do not bemoan them as being worthless but just that they are very different. Kids today are much less interested in doing things like working on a car or anything mechanical. They are most interested in the little screens they carry.

The amount of time spent on social media is astounding. It has been estimated that teens spend up to 8-9 hours per day on social media. (Washington Post).

Yes, this generation is very different and in my opinion the time on their screens is appalling.

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Planeman40

1467 posts in 3320 days


#14 posted 10-27-2018 03:54 PM

I once read an article in National Geographic years back about a 3,000 year old small cuneiform clay tablet found an an archeological dig. It was obviously a letter sent to a wayward son by this father telling him to straighten up and stop wasting his life on wine and loose women. It stated he had bought him the best of tutors and had given him every advantage, yet all he wanted to do is fool around. I got a large laugh reading that and it made me understand mankind hasn’t changed much over the ages.

-- Always remember: It is a mathematical certainty that half the people in this country are below average in intelligence!

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jamsomito

439 posts in 985 days


#15 posted 10-27-2018 05:46 PM

As much as I hate to admit it, I am a millennial. I very much dislike and disagree with the generalizations of my generation. I hope anyone slinging the usual terms around realizes that their own generation has equal or worse issues of a different type.

I’ve been told since early childhood by society that you need to go to college, get a “good” white collar job to be successful in life. The trades will eat you up, destroy your body, and you’ll be forever scraping by with the income you get. My dad was a carpenter by trade, sole proprietor, whose knees and back are shot from years of hard manual labor. He, by the way, graduated from college with a math and physics major, then pursued his dreams of becoming an oil painting portrait artist and learned the hard way you can’t support yourself, much less a family, doing that. My mom worked a desk job high up at a corporation downtown and we lived on the support of her income essentially. Who was I to argue? They just wanted better for their kids. Can you blame our generation for doing exactly that? I think not – it is the previous generations disincentives that killed the trades. Regardless of career path, however, my parents teachings of work ethic still carried through.

I have a large interest in the arts, which I have no doubt stems from my dad’s dreams. I play trumpet and guitar, dabble in photography, brew my own beer, and of course, try to hone my craft in my small garage woodshop. I do it on the side for fun because at this point I’m too invested in my career to make a switch, but I fully understand the rewarding nature of the work. I married a 5-12 grade band director who is passionate about her work. We know first hand the pressure to cut the arts. It’s unacceptable. And it is certainly not coming from our generation at large. The fields lack impassioned leaders to bring up their replacements.

I feel as though the trades are becoming a safer, more lucrative option for the next generation – it has to to balance out. And something has to be done about skyrocketing higher-education costs or there will be a strong disincentive to pursue that path. There kind of already is. There is a strong likelihood my kids will end up in the arts or a skilled trade. But it will be their choice. And I don’t think I’m the only modern parent with this mentality.

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1049 days


#16 posted 10-27-2018 06:15 PM

@Jamsomito, the trades actually pay much better than most white collar jobs. I have two cousins that are just finishing their training, one is an RN in her final year of nursing school, and a the other is finishing his apprenticeship as an electrician. Both will earn about the same pay once fully qualified (~$85K), only the nurse will take 10 years to reach that pay, while the electrician will get that as soon as his papers are signed – in fact he’s just about at the full wage right now.

While the nurse is in debt to the tune of close to $20K before she can even apply for a job, the electrician already has a house, motor cycle, and truck. Plus, he’s already guaranteed work with the same employer. This isn’t unusual. Most people have found out that trades are a great living, and I don’t think a 50 year old nurse is in much better physical shape than an electrician, on average.

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jamsomito

439 posts in 985 days


#17 posted 10-27-2018 06:57 PM

Well there ya go. Case in point.

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Nickkwins

27 posts in 1209 days


#18 posted 10-27-2018 08:49 PM

The younger generations may be used to instant gratification but this is the kind of hobby that can teach delayed gratification. I appreciate those who encourage others in the hobby, it’s really cool to see that.

I have a friend who is an army combat veteran with access to a MWR wood shop on base. The wood shop has a ton of really nice machines that are in good shape and free to use. He refuses to go there anymore because the “regulars” that go there are older retirees who make the atmosphere uncomfortable to work in, and bark at people who might commit a faux pas like run a cutting board through the drum sander with a little too much dried glue on it. That MWR shop is slated to be shut down due to lack of use…..hmm, I wonder why nobody wants to go there? Don’t be like those guys.

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crowie

3322 posts in 2510 days


#19 posted 10-27-2018 10:06 PM

Just a side issue or thought Ron…

Isn’t up to us as older woodworkers to encourage and instill in the younger folk a love and passion for the beauty and joys of working and creating with timber….

-- Lifes good, Enjoy each new day...... Cheers from "On Top DownUnder" Crowie

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clin

1072 posts in 1555 days


#20 posted 10-27-2018 10:52 PM

Old folks have been complaining about the youth since the dawn of time. Every generation seems to think they are the last good one. Yet, somehow we seem to keep going.

Just think about a century ago the old folks all lamenting “kids these days only know how to drive them new fangled automobiles. They won’t even know how to hitch a horse to a wagon. What’s the world coming to?”

-- Clin

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1049 days


#21 posted 10-27-2018 10:59 PM



Old folks have been complaining about the youth since the dawn of time. Every generation seems to think they are the last good one. Yet, somehow we seem to keep going.

Just think about a century ago the old folks all lamenting “kids these days only know how to drive them new fangled automobiles. They won t even know how to hitch a horse to a wagon. What s the world coming to?”

- clin

Well, do you know how to hitch a horse to a wagon? ;)

View Richard's profile

Richard

11307 posts in 3591 days


#22 posted 10-28-2018 12:23 AM


I don t think lack of interest is why shop classes aren t offered. Due to the (over) emphasis on testing, budget doesn t allow non-academic offerings. Not just shop, but music and art and foreign languages have gone away, largely. And it s not just financial, it s time budget as well that no longer makes room for those kinds of classes.

I have always felt it is foolish to demean and second-rate manual skills.. And I was an English teacher for 27 years. One of the skills that a well-taught shop class could teach was task analysis—what is the best approach to a task, and how should it be broken down. I see inquiries often in LJ that demonstrate a need for this.

People used to ask if I d seen a change for the worse in kids. My answer always was, “They have always wanted two things: to be liked, and to succeed.” Trouble often follows when those needs aren t met, for whatever reason.

- runswithscissors

Very well said especially the first Paragraph ”runs with scissors”

I Totally disagree with what MR. Redoak Has to say about the “Little Screens They Carry.”

His Quote= “It is very clear that the current younger generation is quite different as the digital devices are taking over. There are fewer shop type classes being offered as interest has dropped.”

I also know quite a few of them who Volunteer for various organizations, (I’m A Coordinator for 2 of them) most of them are here for the benefit of Older People who are no longer able to care for themselves, or they visit Children in Hospitals to help them with there Lack Of Understanding of what’s going on and just try and Make Them Happy!

All of these “Youngsters” will tell you ”! Get Back MORE Than I Give and it just makes me Very Happy.”

AND…. Guess what? Pretty well ALL of them have 1 or 2 Video/Screens/Devices that HELP them COMMUNICATE with Others, and do their work Faster and more Accurately! (and probably arrange a DATE.} GOOD!

Sorry Mr. Redoak but this just Doesn’t Wash! “Yes, this generation is very different and in my opinion the time on their screens is appalling.” How could YOU Possibly know what they are communicating about? Good? Bad? A Friend? A Parent? Business? You CAN’T KNOW. (So much for that Mental Telepathy ..LOL..)

I know many of the “Younger Generation” (Teens To 30’s or so) I also do Volunteer work with them. Their Hearts are dedicated to what they are doing. Bless them ALL!

It’s usually the same scenario. You hear and see all the BAD Stuff that they get into, BUT! You never hear a News Story or Newspaper Article about all the GOOD ones. In my Opinion only …. The GOOD Ones Outnumber the BAD Ones by a Large Majority

I have Total Confidence in the Vast Majority of OUR Younger Population! Why? Because I’m Personally Involved with a “Whole Bunch” of them and enjoy every minute of it Sure! We have our Squabbles now and then but it’s over with as fast as it started. Watch 2 so called Grown Ups Squabble and it’s liable to last all day, or all week, or (Never mind. Y’all know what I mean…lol…)

That’s My .02 Cents W… OKAY My .05 Cents Worth! ;-}

Thank You Mr. Ron for the Opportunity to add my .05 Cents Worth to your Very, Nicely Done Post and thanks to the Sensible Contributors like “runswithscissors”

Best Regards To ALL: Rick S

-- Richard (Ontario, CANADA)

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HokieKen

11521 posts in 1697 days


#23 posted 10-29-2018 12:55 PM

Fact is, societal priorities and mentalities change over time and with each generation it becomes more evident. We bemoan the time “youngsters” spend on their cell phones and tablets and playing video games. But, that’s just the way of the world. Technology progresses and people a little behind the curve (older generations) fear the change while people on/ahead of the curve (upcoming generations) embrace it and look beyond.

I think it’s also important that we look in the mirror as a generation. The shortcomings we perceive in our children are a reflection of how WE raised them. If you complain about how lazy Millennials are, make sure your 25-year-old isn’t unemployed living in your basement on your health insurance…

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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MrRon

5782 posts in 3802 days


#24 posted 10-29-2018 02:12 PM

I seem to think a lot of this has to do with where in the country you are living. I think kids living in NYC are more prone toward white collar pursuits than blue collar. I live in a rural area in South Mississippi and kids here seem to have much more interest in blue collar jobs. My own grandson has picked up skills from his father and from myself. At 18, he is doing well at his job and best of all, enjoys what he is doing. He has a good future ahead of him. He is a high school graduate as are all my other grand children. They had thought about college, but in the meantime, they are making good money. I contribute all this to a close family. My son lives right next door and my daughter lives about 15 minutes away. All the family lives within 30 minutes away from each other. I think my wife and I have instilled a good ethic in our children and they in turn have passed that ethic onto their children. I know not everyone can share a similar experience like ours. I guess we just did things right; and we can thank our parents for that.

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OSU55

2450 posts in 2548 days


#25 posted 10-29-2018 03:12 PM

Sorry to bring politics into this but….this country was founded on individual responsibilty, not a socialist govt redistributing wealth. By moving this country toward socialism, and attempting to convince the “masses” that they are victims and need the “free help” only govt, and elected officials, can provide, govt is destroying what made the country great – individual responsibility and liberty.

The issues with younger generations, and why I think they are more serious today vs previous generations, is this victimization and coddling – dont keep score, everyone is a winner and gets a trophy, let the govt take care of that for you. I dont see it as the kids fault, its the parents who raised them and voted for the politicians who keep going left.

Stop thinking govt is the answer, train kids to be responsible for themselves (that they are not victims) and find a way to win/succeed. And elect politicians that dont keep giving away our economy to other countries so we have jobs, be they blue or white collar.

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runswithscissors

3081 posts in 2584 days


#26 posted 10-29-2018 04:59 PM

OSUSS: Am I correct, then, in assuming you spurn and will not accept social security, or will do so when you come of age? Same with medicare?

If your house catches on fire, do you tell the fire dept. to stay away, you’ll take care of it yourself?

I could go on and on in this vein, but won’t. I’m just suggesting that you think about your position a bit more deeply.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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HokieKen

11521 posts in 1697 days


#27 posted 10-29-2018 05:09 PM

If you draw a paycheck and money comes out of it for Social Security, then you earned your Social Security. Ditto on medicare. And if you pay local taxes, you pay for the services of the fire department.

You earn what you pay into. The government and those of us who work hard to fund it, don’t owe you for sitting on your ass because your mommy says your special.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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Planeman40

1467 posts in 3320 days


#28 posted 10-29-2018 05:26 PM

Amen, HokieKen, AMEN!

-- Always remember: It is a mathematical certainty that half the people in this country are below average in intelligence!

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Dustin

703 posts in 1299 days


#29 posted 10-29-2018 05:32 PM



I seem to think a lot of this has to do with where in the country you are living. I think kids living in NYC are more prone toward white collar pursuits than blue collar. I live in a rural area in South Mississippi and kids here seem to have much more interest in blue collar jobs. My own grandson has picked up skills from his father and from myself. At 18, he is doing well at his job and best of all, enjoys what he is doing. He has a good future ahead of him. He is a high school graduate as are all my other grand children. They had thought about college, but in the meantime, they are making good money. I contribute all this to a close family. My son lives right next door and my daughter lives about 15 minutes away. All the family lives within 30 minutes away from each other. I think my wife and I have instilled a good ethic in our children and they in turn have passed that ethic onto their children. I know not everyone can share a similar experience like ours. I guess we just did things right; and we can thank our parents for that.

- MrRon

Right you are, MrRon, right you are. My wife works in childcare, and sees negative examples to the contrary of this all the time. Well educated, hard-working adults with good incomes (where she works in a very affluent part of town, makes us look like we’re in the skids by comparison) behave as though they can’t wait to get out of being a parent for a few hours. Granted, we all need a break sometimes, but these folks see their kids as a problem they get to foist off on someone else. They speak abusively to the staff, shrug off incident reports about misbehaving children (a parent didn’t care the other day that her son broke another child’s arm by pushing him off of a playground set), and refuse to take their sick children back because they’re entitled to their gym time. Not surprisingly, a lot of this is then reflected in the child’s poor behavior.

I think what really shocks me about this is that these parents likely owe their success to the discipline and work ethic that theirs instilled in them. It just seems to me that some people view success as “I have arrived”, and are now just as entitled as their lazy counterpart.

Good on ya, MrRon. I hope I raise my kids to recognize that the pursuit of excellence and discipline in their work is, in and of itself, a reward, and equip them with the tools and knowledge they need to make the best decisions for their own continuing education and/or careers.

-- "Ladies, if your husband says he'll get to it, he'll get to it. No need to remind him about it every 6 months."

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bobasaurus

3616 posts in 3743 days


#30 posted 10-29-2018 05:33 PM

I love video games and technology, but I’m still a hobby woodworker and blacksmith. These hobbies/professions are definitely not mutually exclusive.

-- Allen, Colorado (Instagram @bobasaurus_woodworking)

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Andybb

2218 posts in 1162 days


#31 posted 10-29-2018 05:46 PM

We now live with a generation only interested in instant gratification.
- Phil32

Said every old man of every generation. Damn kids.

- JADobson

+1 I’m pretty sure this same conversation was had around the hearth in Egypt 4000 years BC. “They just don’t build chariots like they used to in my day. Damn kids.”

The Air Force is working overtime trying to recruit those video game playin’ kids to be their next generation of fighter pilots.

I agonized over my kid going to WSU which is a huge “party school” who basically did (I thought) nothing but play video games for 4 years. Then he got a law degree from Georgetown and now works in the intellectual property dept of a large firm. I then promptly shut the hell up! :-) He can barely read or write cursive (another skill I thought was essential to success) but types faster then he can talk.

Different skills for different times.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

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MrRon

5782 posts in 3802 days


#32 posted 10-29-2018 05:58 PM

When I was a kid and went to school, in those days, teachers had the right to discipline children, including corporal punishment. If I was disciplined at school and came home complaining, my parents would punish me more. I have yet to see where a child disciplined at school, turned out a “disturbed” person in adult life. I always remember the adage, “Spare the rod, spoil the child”. That has been and still is part of responsible child upbringing in my family and I can see the positive results within my family.

Naturally the child raising “experts” will contradict me and tell me I’m all wrong, but I have the proof of my own family.

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HokieKen

11521 posts in 1697 days


#33 posted 10-29-2018 06:23 PM

I was in about 4th grade when it became illegal for teachers and administrators to dole out whoopins Ron. I can tell you for a fact that I was a lot less worried about getting in trouble after that!

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2450 posts in 2548 days


#34 posted 10-29-2018 07:08 PM



OSUSS: Am I correct, then, in assuming you spurn and will not accept social security, or will do so when you come of age? Same with medicare?

If your house catches on fire, do you tell the fire dept. to stay away, you ll take care of it yourself?

I could go on and on in this vein, but won t. I m just suggesting that you think about your position a bit more deeply.

- runswithscissors


Thanks HokieKen. Dont worry I have thought VERY deeply about my opinion. I suggest you broaden your research of where your tax $’s go. Yes, I pay plenty os ssi and other taxes, as other workers do, so yes I damn sure will take the ssi $ I paid in. I was in favor of doing away with ssi when younger, now I want some of my $ back. I dont mind paying taxes for FD, PD, roads, infrastructure, etc – IMO thats what govt is for. As stated previously I oppose wealth redistribution and the appalling laziness it creates, as well as the overwhelming power given away to the govt through it. Equal opportunity not equal result. I can go on about big govt and all the tax $’s wasted on areas not covered by the Constitution(thereby being state and local responsibility) but I’ll stop, this is a ww forum and Im the one who brought politics into it, because I look for root causes and not how to treat symptoms.

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mramseyISU

578 posts in 2104 days


#35 posted 10-29-2018 07:16 PM



Most all of the talent demonstrated on this site was obtained by effort & practice over significant time. We now live with a generation only interested in instant gratification.

- Phil32

You need to spend more time around some of this younger generation. There’s a lot of talent there, they just have different interests than you do. I’ll guarantee your work ethic and interests has changed as you aged that happens to everyone. Every generation of old men has complained about those damn lazy kids. Generation after generation has turned out just fine. If a kid is worthless and lazy it’s because their parents failed them, chances are the kids grandparents failed those parents as well. I volunteer with a lot of my kids activities and I can tell you that without exception if the kid is a pain in the ass they learned that from one of if not both of the parents. So before you start complaining about the youths I’d take a good hard look at their parents and grandparents who made them that way.

-- Trust me I'm an engineer.

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HokieKen

11521 posts in 1697 days


#36 posted 10-29-2018 07:22 PM


Thanks HokieKen…

- OSU55

No worries. It just aggravates the bejeezus out of me when people equate Social Security to a welfare check/food stamps and Medicare to Medicaid…

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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jerkylips

495 posts in 3129 days


#37 posted 10-29-2018 07:36 PM


We now live with a generation only interested in instant gratification.

- Phil32

Said every old man of every generation. Damn kids.

- JADobson

I grew up in the days of trying to look at porn on a dial up connection. There was NOTHING instant about that gratification…........ hahahahahah

View theart's profile

theart

146 posts in 1113 days


#38 posted 10-29-2018 07:56 PM

One thing that I have noticed working with college students (engineering majors) is that not only are there still plenty who are into things like woodworking, machining, and working on cars, but the ones who are are far more advanced than twenty year olds were not too long ago. Access to forums like this one, with thousands of years of collective experience, has really flattened out the learning curve tremendously. These kids are a lot better at evaluating different ways of building things than previous generations who grew up with one mentor and being taught one approach. And most of them are spending far less time on their phones than a certain seventy-something twitter enthusiast who comes to mind..

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

11521 posts in 1697 days


#39 posted 10-29-2018 08:13 PM

I agree theart. I do some work with the ME department at my alma mater on industry review panels for capstone design projects. There are, like there has always been, some highly motivated and capable young people out there who are far more capable than a certain forty-something engineer who comes to mind was at their age… ;-)

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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