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View joea99's profile

Newel post install, on flooring, or sub flooring?

by joea99
posted 10-26-2018 04:07 PM


12 replies so far

View Dano46's profile

Dano46

85 posts in 3703 days


#1 posted 10-26-2018 04:23 PM

If I am understanding correctly, and if you have enough post length, why not mortise all the way through the floor. That way you could fasten to floor joists or blocking.

-- You can't trust a dog to guard your food.

View joea99's profile

joea99

21 posts in 441 days


#2 posted 10-26-2018 04:41 PM


If I am understanding correctly, and if you have enough post length, why not mortise all the way through the floor. That way you could fasten to floor joists or blocking.

- Dano46

Only to avoid more work. I will cut the posts from 8 ft lengths, so post length is not an issue.

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

16234 posts in 3152 days


#3 posted 10-26-2018 04:42 PM

Through the floor, to joists or blocking. +1

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View joea99's profile

joea99

21 posts in 441 days


#4 posted 11-04-2018 05:06 PM

So, I have cut out a “mortise” down to framing, added some blocking, drilled the hole, installed the peg and made the cuts in the post. I know the post bottom is square and even routed out the mortise to get a flat and hopefully squared up bottom.

Yet try as I may, I cannot get the post to not “rock” when it is installed, before cinching it down. That would not bother me so much, except when I torque down on the nut to the point the post feels solidly in place, it is out of plumb by “just so much”. That makes it a bit fiddly to cut the rails and minimize the (uneven) “gaps” where the rails meet the posts.

So, rather that spend countless hours nibbling away at the post bottom, hoping for the best, I am considering pouring a thin coat of some self leveling material in the hole in hopes of getting a flat, solid bottom I can count on. But that still leaves a couple variables, so I was also considering using something like JB quick weld in the hole and inserting the post and getting it plumbed up while it sets. First, of course, taping up the bottom of the post so the epoxy does not stick to it and prevent removal, forever.

What say the experts?

View Ripper70's profile

Ripper70

1339 posts in 1442 days


#5 posted 11-04-2018 06:01 PM

Tony_S is one resident expert you may want to run this question past. If it’s about stairs, he’ll have some advice.

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

1027 posts in 3617 days


#6 posted 11-04-2018 09:08 PM

Is there any other rail coming off the posts besides the stair railing that isn’t running parallel to the stair railing?
If there isn’t, there’s only one way to install the newel’s properly/securely and that was mentioned above, fastened to the side of a joist or beam. There’s no easy way out for a stand alone newel with one piece of stair railing attached to it.

Pictures of the area would help.

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View joea99's profile

joea99

21 posts in 441 days


#7 posted 11-04-2018 09:57 PM

I’m using the term “newel post” as that is the nearest I can come to describing it. It is actually just one post in a railing on the same plane as the other posts, it just has no where else to attach except to the floor, or “deck”. While it is adjacent to the stairs, actually only 3 steps plus landing, it will only act as an attachment point for the stair handrail as well as part of the railing.

There will be two rails, with balusters, between it an another post.

Using a UBS “sure-tite” post fastening setup. What I have done, perhaps foolishly, is shimmed the hole the post sits in, so the post sits plumb. Then “sealed” the bottom of the post and mixed up some jb kwik weld to pour in the hole, inserted the post, checked plumb and calling it good. Once that sets up, I feel it should be fine to cinch down on the fastening nut and the post should not shift.

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

1027 posts in 3617 days


#8 posted 11-04-2018 11:28 PM

Tough to understand the configuration of the rest of the railing system from your description.
If there’s no other railing coming off that post at 45 to 90 degrees to hold it securely, with one hanger bolt, it’s eventually going to wobble. Level or not. Those bolts can work fine with a larger posts, but they’re typically not worth a shit for smaller posts with a smaller footprint.
If I was in this situation and couldn’t half lap the post to the side of a joist(looks like you can’t in that position) The post would normally be mounted to a larger steel plate and then the steel plate to the subfloor. Can’t do that with the flooring in place.
Second option if the flooring is in place is to mount the post to a wider piece of shoe and screw the hell out of that to the finished floor. I’m not sure that you’re using a shoe?
Third option would be to turn the job down. lol!

If you are going to try the ‘sure tight’ method alone, I’d at least put two bolts in the bottom of the post, running perpendicular to the connecting handrail and glue it in with PL Premium construction adhesive. Even the sides of the post to the subfloor and hardwood flooring.

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1433 days


#9 posted 11-04-2018 11:55 PM

^This. (best you can do in your situation)
glue it in with PL Premium construction adhesive. Even the sides of the post to the subfloor and hardwood flooring.

View joea99's profile

joea99

21 posts in 441 days


#10 posted 11-05-2018 01:38 AM

Thanks for the input. There will be two 2×4 rails attached at 90 degrees between that post and another 4×4 post that is “side bolted” to rim joists similar to what Tony_s showed above.

I can certainly use the PL premium, but was thinking to avoid that, just in case I needed to replace it for some reason. I do have a Kregs – HD jig that I have am using to pocket screw the 2×4’s into the 4×4 posts. I can put a few of those in the post as well, perhaps avoiding using the adhesive?

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1433 days


#11 posted 11-05-2018 01:41 AM

I would use the adhesive and deal with it later if you need to.

You could also add some L-channel to the 4 sides and cover it with a base molding.

View joea99's profile

joea99

21 posts in 441 days


#12 posted 11-05-2018 01:50 AM

Avoid the pocket screws?

Here is a view of what has been done so far.

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