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Dust Collection: are 2-1/2 and 2" tubes adequate for very small workshop?

by MSquared
posted 10-25-2018 01:53 AM


32 replies so far

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10844 posts in 1786 days


#1 posted 10-25-2018 02:11 AM

It’s ok. Will be good for dust. Shavings from planer or jointer may clog it.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#2 posted 10-25-2018 02:45 AM

Thanks Fridge. Well, I don’t own a planer or jointer yet. So, it’s a start. I suppose when I require more cfm for those two machines, I’ll go with a wider, more direct route to the cyc/vac. Is an Oneida Dust Deputy sufficient overall, IYO?

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5125 posts in 2609 days


#3 posted 10-25-2018 02:59 AM

If you work with Alder it will be fine.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 790 days


#4 posted 10-25-2018 03:01 AM

I’m a little confused. Is this a DC or is it a shop vac setup? The 40’ with the gates sounds like you’re using DC, but the Dust Deputy is for a shop vac, unless I’m missing something.

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 790 days


#5 posted 10-25-2018 03:04 AM



If you work with Alder it will be fine.

- AlaskaGuy

True, Alder dust is used to treat asthma.

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#6 posted 10-25-2018 03:05 AM

At the moment, I only use Alder for smoking fish… and oysters. Until, that is, I get get good enough at woodworking to do it justice.

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#7 posted 10-25-2018 03:08 AM

DC using a shop vac with cyclone.

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 790 days


#8 posted 10-25-2018 03:20 AM



DC using a shop vac.

- MSquared

You’ll likely find that you won’t be able to run a 40’ system like that off of a shop vac as it’s not meant for that. A shop vac uses high static pressure, but little air flow, while a dust collector uses a lot of CFM. Wood did a good article on how to calculate the CFM required in a shop.

https://www.woodmagazine.com/figure-dust-collection-needs-by-the-numbers

IIRC, even the most powerful shop vacs produce something like 200 CFM at the top end, but you should check into it.

View Mosquito's profile

Mosquito

9671 posts in 2592 days


#9 posted 10-25-2018 03:29 AM

I would probably shy away from 40’ runs with a shop vac if it were me, unless it’s a ridiculously good shop vac. I used a shop vac + dust deputy for a while for my bandsaw, table saw, miter saw, and radial arm saw. It was a bit under powered for the RAS, but for everything else it did alright. I agree with Fridge, jointer and/or planer shavings clogged the 2-1/2” hose up pretty good. Same with lathe shavings

-- Mos - Twin Cities, MN - http://www.youtube.com/MosquitoMods - http://www.TheModsquito.com

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MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#10 posted 10-25-2018 03:34 AM

Ah! Thanks, Lumbering. I’m here for an education and I’m getting one! I’m the confused one.

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#11 posted 10-25-2018 03:47 AM

Mosquito, I’ll be using more like 20’ of what I have for main run in the 2-1/2” tubing. Apparently, mainly for sanding and the machines you mentioned. I’m at the very beginning stages of setting up a very small garage shop. Thanks for the input, it’s greatly appreciated!

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

505 posts in 211 days


#12 posted 10-25-2018 04:26 AM

Used it’s a deal, depending on your plans. What was the reason for selling them, did they change to 4”,5” or 6” system. or did they stop woodworking. I do like the idea of clear tubing. With several blast gates, junctions, and longer hoses the more air volume you need. The maximum I run my 2 1/2” hoses is 20’, but I run the hoses direct with no blast gates. If you split the hoses a couple different directions just down one wall with Y,T, or blast gates, you might be ok.. I have no problems with shavings using 2 1/2” hose with my planer or jointer with my HF system once I removed both the grid screens it came with. Plus what are you hooking this up to. The volume on my Craftsman 20 gallon would able to handle the 40’, but no Y, T or blast gates.

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MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#13 posted 10-25-2018 08:16 PM

The seller is moving to a larger house and a much bigger (double area +) workshop space and adding larger machines. His new DC tubing system will need to be 4”s at least and more. My shop will be tiny in comparison with just a few basic machines to start. I’m beginning to understand the ‘why’s and wherefores’ of DC systems in more detail. Thank you all!Dreams, If I use 20’ or so of 2-1/2” it would be a lot! I’ll see how the trusty 8 Gal. Shop-Vac. handles the head end.

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#14 posted 10-25-2018 08:25 PM

The seller is moving to a larger house and a much bigger (double area +) workshop space and adding larger machines. His new DC tubing system will need to be 4”s at least and more. My shop will be tiny in comparison with just a few basic machines to start off. I’m beginning to understand the ‘why’s and wherefores’ of DC systems in more detail. Thank you all ! Dreams, If I use 20’ or so of 2-1/2” it would be the max for the foreseeable future! I’ll see how the trusty 8 Gal. Shop-Vac handles the head end.

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1802 posts in 903 days


#15 posted 10-25-2018 10:19 PM


It’s ok. Will be good for dust. Shavings from planer or jointer may clog it.

- TheFridge


+1 Absolutely. It is what I use including the 20’ hose. As stated, planer and jointer shavings usually clog it where it reduces down to 2 1/2” but they are big shavings and sweep up easily. I use a DIY cyclone. I keep the shopvac inside a plywood cabinet with casters and have my drill press, scroll saw and mortiser on top of it. The cabinet is lined with carpet padding. Very very quiet.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#16 posted 10-25-2018 10:22 PM

Whoops! Messed up that last post!

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#17 posted 10-25-2018 10:54 PM

Thanks Andy. At this point, I think I’ll follow suit.

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1802 posts in 903 days


#18 posted 10-26-2018 12:57 AM

Stand by. I’ll send a few pics when I get home on how I did it and how I hooked it up to the other machines. Not fancy, but it works.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1262 posts in 2335 days


#19 posted 10-26-2018 01:34 AM

General rule of thumb regarding any fluid mechanics – the smaller the pipe, the higher the velocity- with diminishing returns the longer that pipe is. The more length and the more turns, the higher the resistance to the flow.

I personally wouldn’t use anything less than 3”, and 4” is my actual lowest target. Of course with some saws, notably miter saws, that OEM port is so small as to be nearly useless. What ARE they thinking?

Anyway, good luck with your system. Shoot for larger pipe is my advice.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View fly2low's profile

fly2low

58 posts in 397 days


#20 posted 10-26-2018 07:06 AM

agree with larger pipe
If you need X airflow to capture the chips and dust from a machine, it does not matter if the machine is in a large or small shop

-- Rich Gig Harbor, WA

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Underdog

1262 posts in 2335 days


#21 posted 10-26-2018 10:15 AM

I should add that fly2low is correct: shoot for Volume (measured in CFM – cubic feet per minute). That’s why bigger fans and bigger pipes are always desirable. If you find yourself using the smaller pipe, use the shortest lengths possible.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#22 posted 10-27-2018 05:04 AM

Back and standing by, Andy.

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#23 posted 10-28-2018 03:13 AM

Jim, that being said, I’m thinking (ouch!) that mounting the pipe mid-way up on the wall, closer to machine height, as opposed to overhead would help maintain the shortest distance between the machines and vacuum. I understand that the larger tubing and larger vacuum would greatly increase the capacity, by way of CFM’s, of a system. In this instance, keeping the system more ‘straightforward’, keeping down on linear feet and resistance creating T’s, Y’s and angles would make it most efficient given the circumstances.

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View fly2low's profile

fly2low

58 posts in 397 days


#24 posted 10-28-2018 06:50 AM

Stay away from T junctions as much as possible. No sharp bends. 45 degree Ys work.
For info on dust collection
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm#index.cfm
There is a religious fervor to the messaging, but a lot of good info on duct layout, CFM requirements, etc

-- Rich Gig Harbor, WA

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

505 posts in 211 days


#25 posted 10-28-2018 09:45 AM

Thank you “fly2low” for the Bill Pentz.com website. I studied the info from the site and put the site in my favorites list for future read. I’ve purchased 5 books on dust collection & control, and none of them gave as much info like this site does. I have 3 dust collectors and a Wen air filtration unit, plus I built 2 additional in ceiling air filtration units. The wading dust was a issue before I installed my air filtration units. “MSquared” I hope your dust collection goes as planned.

View fly2low's profile

fly2low

58 posts in 397 days


#26 posted 10-28-2018 06:13 PM

woodenDreams
you are a quick study if you read it once and got it. It took me multiple readings before I got it

-- Rich Gig Harbor, WA

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#27 posted 10-29-2018 02:24 AM

fly2low; yes, thanks for that Bill Pentz website. Wow, much food for thought. I’m going to read it a ‘few’ more times. Also yes, no ‘T’s, that was a typo gone undeleted. I do know the system has to ‘go with the flow’ as it were. ‘Y’s and combinations of 45’s or less are what’s required. I will be purchasing a good respirator right off the bat. So, what seemed like a simple question does indeed command a good bit of thought. There will be time to revisit the topic as the garage shop is in it’s infancy still with the door up and fans blowing! (Brrr!) Thanks WoodDreams, I’ll probably still cobble together the parts I have when the time comes, see how it works and at least have some knowledge of how to proceed to upgrade. Worst case, I figure the parts could be just fine for around the shoebox of a shop in the basement. Downdraft box? Mostly, I’d like to thank all of you who have responded, taking the time to help a novice. It’s invaluable. Hopefully, one day I’ll be able to reply to someones questions with knowledge and experience. Good folks all!

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View fly2low's profile

fly2low

58 posts in 397 days


#28 posted 10-29-2018 02:40 AM

Marty
Don’t feel bad. We all start somewhere. At least you did not do what I did. Bought a Jet JCDC-2 as I was putting together my shop (almost done), then I found the site, plus other info. I am now trying to sell an unused cyclone, and expect to lose several hundred on that one

-- Rich Gig Harbor, WA

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#29 posted 10-29-2018 02:59 AM

Rich, Oooh! Well, I’m going with that old axium; ’ The dumb question is the one never asked’. Now, what is my next question? I have a lot of them. Curious, what was the problem? Air volume? Thanks again.

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View fly2low's profile

fly2low

58 posts in 397 days


#30 posted 10-29-2018 03:06 AM

yup

-- Rich Gig Harbor, WA

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#31 posted 10-29-2018 04:43 AM

Right now, the focus in on getting the workspace de-clutterred, up and functional. User friendly. Cleanly accessible. Efficient. On the way to making cabinet doors, slide-outs, counter top roughs and the like. Planning ahead as I go.

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

265 posts in 214 days


#32 posted 10-29-2018 04:26 PM

Rich, I guess one could say that was a (recently) ‘educated guess’...

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

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