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Hide Glue differences

by WoodenDreams
posted 10-24-2018 02:39 AM


8 replies so far

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1051 days


#1 posted 10-24-2018 03:29 AM

I only used Titebond a few times during a class I was taking, and it held well, but it didn’t allow you to do a rub joint like you can get with hot glue. The instructor also mentioned that it takes longer to undue the joint than the hot glue, but it was also easier to repair a broken joint with the Titebond.

The biggest advantage of hot glue, however, would be the ability to choose the strength of the glue. As far as I’m aware, Titebond has only one level, but you can get several levels of strength for hot hide glue, which allows you to tailor it to what you need, including the open time.

View Rich's profile

Rich

5001 posts in 1151 days


#2 posted 10-24-2018 03:54 AM

First, liquid hide glue is nothing more than hide glue, water and urea. Period. The urea is what lowers the temperature at which the glue remains fluid.

The Franklin Titebond product has several ingredients that stray from that formula. You can find the MSDS online and review them for yourself. I consider it to be the least “pure” of the commercially available liquid hide glues.

Old Brown Glue by Patrick Edwards is the standard. However, it’s relatively pricey at upwards of $20 to $25 for a 20 oz bottle.

I make my own. I buy the hide glue granules from Patrick and, using my own formula of glue, water and urea, cook it to my specifications. I’m not going to share my recipe, however, instructions for the cooking process are available online. Since the critical element is the concentration of urea, which affects the viscosity at room temperature, I used a bottle of Old Brown Glue to gauge the amount and came up with a very effective glue that only costs about $4 per pint.

Hot hide glue has the advantage of a fast tack. However, that’s one of its drawbacks — a short open time. If you need more open time, but faster tack than liquid hide glue, you can add a small amount of urea. It’s also great for glue blocks. I use it all the time for that. A slather of glue and a quick rub and you’ve got a solid joint. I prefer liquid for things like dovetail joints, mortise and tenon, etc. It has another advantage in that it’s slippery and helps joints go together which is really helpful with joints like sliding dovetails.

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1051 days


#3 posted 10-24-2018 04:15 AM



First, liquid hide glue is nothing more than hide glue, water and urea. Period. The urea is what lowers the temperature at which the glue remains fluid.

The Franklin Titebond product has several ingredients that stray from that formula. You can find the MSDS online and review them for yourself. I consider it to be the least “pure” of the liquid hide glues.

Old Brown Glue by Patrick Edwards is the standard. However, it s relatively pricey at upwards of $20 to $25 for a 20 oz bottle.

I make my own. I buy the hide glue granules from Patrick and, using my own formula of glue, water and urea, cook it to my specifications. I m not going to share my recipe, however, instructions for the cooking process are available online. Since the critical element is the concentration of urea, which affects the viscosity at room temperature, I used a bottle of Old Brown Glue to gauge the amount and came up with a very effective glue that only costs about $4 per pint.

Hot hide glue has the advantage of a fast tack. However, that s one of its drawbacks — a short open time. If you need more open time, but faster tack than liquid hide glue, you can add a small amount of urea.

- Rich

So you’re saying pee in your hot glue? :)

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4600 posts in 4304 days


#4 posted 10-24-2018 04:23 AM

Final result is m ostly the same… in terms of gluing joints.

However, if you want to make rub joints, like putting glue blocks into corners… hot hide works well, while liquid hide will still require clamping.

You also cannot hammer veneer liquid hide glue.

If the goal is solely to have reversible glue joints in furniture – liquid hide, or Old brown glue is just fine.

Don’t know if the liquid hide would be inadvisable for instruments like violins. I like hot hide better…. but if I really needed the open time for a more ccomplex glue up – the liquid has its place.

I would as Patrick Edwards himself… or Shipwright on LJ… as they are both deep into the French Marquetry work, and use all of the glues, like Rabbit and Fish proteins as well.

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

View Rich's profile

Rich

5001 posts in 1151 days


#5 posted 10-24-2018 04:26 AM


So you re saying pee in your hot glue? :)

- lumbering_on

Well, that is the rumor behind its origin; that of a disgruntled apprentice who peed in his master’s pot. True? Who knows.

Nope, urea is nitrogen. Like what you use in your garden. You can buy a 5 lb bag of it on Amazon for a few dollars that will last you a long time.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8412 posts in 3359 days


#6 posted 10-24-2018 04:36 AM



I would as Patrick Edwards himself… or Shipwright on LJ… as they are both deep into the French Marquetry work, and use all of the glues, like Rabbit and Fish proteins as well.

- DrDirt

Here’s a blog about hide glue that might answer some questions …. or generate more …
It is mine but starts off with a video by Patrick. Sorry, it doesn’t cover fish glue, bone glue, nerve glue, or rabbit glue.
They’re a little exotic.

http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/series/5437

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2047 days


#7 posted 10-24-2018 05:24 AM

Glue blocks. That’s what those things are supposed to be called :)

I tried one bootle of liquid hide. It never set so I threw it out. So I can’t help there.

Rubbed joints are awesome. I start a fresh batch every now and again because mine goes through many freeze thaw cycles and there’s nothing like it.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

830 posts in 472 days


#8 posted 10-24-2018 05:36 AM

I’ll remember to flush after I pee in the pot. Thanks for all the helpful and quick insight and input. shipwright, your blogs were very useful, and saved some of the links for a later read or look, & such as the input from lumbering_on, Rich, & DrDirt, TheFridge. I went and printed out some of the blogs to read later when not online. All very much appreciated. My next restoration project I have from a customer is a 1930’s Ice Box Refrigerator. I have 3 months to finish it.

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