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View btarb24's profile

Jointer woes

by btarb24
posted 10-21-2018 05:00 AM


34 replies so far

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5414 posts in 2846 days


#1 posted 10-21-2018 06:44 AM

Have you checked the tables for parallel alignment? If not do so. Hears how.

https://www.woodmagazine.com/tuning-up-your-jointer

How long are you combined jointer tables and, how long is the board are you jointing that you get the big gaps in. Did the jointer ever work right for you?

Edit to add, I always set the dial indicator on the out feed table and use a flat tip/shoe on it.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View btarb24's profile

btarb24

12 posts in 2041 days


#2 posted 10-21-2018 07:26 AM



It sounds to me like you re clueless and want to blame someone else for your ineptitude. Good luck with that. If you have your jointer set up properly and can t get a straight face on a board, then another jointer isn t going to help you.

- Rich

No need to be a jerk. I clearly stated I wasn’t an expert. I also in no way attempted to blame anyone .. aside from you for your rudeness.

I made several considerations for buying the newer jointer. The longer table of the 8” ought to assist my need to joint boards that are too long to rest on the 6” jointer without the use of rollers. The spiral head will eliminate the need to align the knives. And furthermore, if my wedge tables are out on the 6” then i’m unlikely to want to disassemble and shim. The parallelogram design of the grizzly will make this type of future adjustments a breeze in comparison.

but mostly.. just please be less of a tool. No one appreciates it.

View btarb24's profile

btarb24

12 posts in 2041 days


#3 posted 10-21-2018 07:39 AM


Have you checked the tables for parallel alignment? If not do so. Hears how.

https://www.woodmagazine.com/tuning-up-your-jointer

How long are you combined jointer tables and, how long is the board are you jointing that you get the big gaps in. Did the jointer ever work right for you?

Edit to add, I always set the dial indicator on the out feed table and use a flat tip/shoe on it.

- AlaskaGuy

Thank you for the constructive reply. I’ve had success with jointing boards 4’ and under. The longer the board, the larger the gap in the center. The boards i’m having trouble with are 8’ oak. The table of the 6” jointer is somewhere around 4.5’ and the board has zero chance to rest fully on the infeed table when starting the cut so i have recruited the assistance of some roller stands. I’ve made countless adjustments to the stands but never get any improved results.

Thanks for the excellent link. I did spend some time checking the table with a proper straight edge and feeler guages during my troubleshooting some 8 months ago. I recall the table having a couple low spots in the centers of the tables and another on the leading edge of the infeed table. It seems that in theory this may be the culprit, but i can’t really tell. I’ll run through the guide you posted to see if i can gather some more info tomorrow.

View pauljuilleret's profile

pauljuilleret

107 posts in 2190 days


#4 posted 10-21-2018 08:57 AM

I have had the same issues when running long stock through my 6 ” jointer what I found was try using some in feed rollers and out feed rollers with the longer stock trying to run it by your self to needs more support mine also was great with the shorter material 4’ and under. The rollers helped a bunch. also a helper for real long material is a bonus.

View Kirk650's profile

Kirk650

674 posts in 1285 days


#5 posted 10-21-2018 09:02 AM

The solution to my jointer issue, similar to yours, was to use infeed and outfeed tables. Ridgid used to offer some really good ones. With a bit of adjusting and readjusting the tables, I dialed in the jointing to my needs. I had considered a bigger jointer, but just didn’t have the room for it.

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

2249 posts in 2566 days


#6 posted 10-21-2018 01:45 PM

standard length jointer = nearly impossible to joint 8’ long boards.
longbed jointer = very possible to joint 8’ long boards.
build infeed and outfeed tables

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#7 posted 10-21-2018 06:29 PM

Just a thought – have you thought about contacting BusyBee in Canada? They sell an identical jointer for $1,600 CDN, which is ~$1,200 USD. If they can ship it to the US without duty, and for a few hundred bucks, that’s the same price as the Grizzly.

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/jointer-8in-3hp-4-knive-cutterhead-csa-cx08.html

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2616 posts in 2382 days


#8 posted 10-21-2018 06:56 PM


Just a thought – have you thought about contacting BusyBee in Canada? They sell an identical jointer for $1,600 CDN, which is ~$1,200 USD. If they can ship it to the US without duty, and for a few hundred bucks, that s the same price as the Grizzly.

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/jointer-8in-3hp-4-knive-cutterhead-csa-cx08.html

- lumbering_on

I could be mistaken, but after telling Canada and Mexico the steel and aluminum duties of 25% and 10% respectively would stay on until NAFTA was renegotiated, Trump surprisingly hasn’t removed the duties (that are supposed to be for national defense purposes).

So there is probably a duty on the Canadian version as well.

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#9 posted 10-21-2018 07:03 PM


I could be mistaken, but after telling Canada and Mexico the steel and aluminum duties of 25% and 10% respectively would stay on until NAFTA was renegotiated, Trump surprisingly hasn t removed the duties (that are supposed to be for national defense purposes).

So there is probably a duty on the Canadian version as well.

- RobS888

I’m just not sure how the tariffs are working in the US. If it’s strictly country of origin, then there would be a duty. But if it’s country of import, then it could be duty free. The tariffs for Canada and Mexico were only on steel and aluminum, but it doesn’t include finished goods.

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

2529 posts in 2335 days


#10 posted 10-21-2018 07:49 PM

The best way to get a jointer that’s satisfys the needs of a hobbyist is the used market.
You get to inspect the machine before you take it home. There’s a good chance you’ll be getting a lot more machine then anything new.
If you stick with the craft of making stuff from wood your going to eventually need to wrench on your machine’s.
Might as well get one that’s worth fixing.
I’m not a fan of grizzly machines they are just copys of what’s already out there.
I do agree with the tariffs it’s about time.

-- Aj

View btarb24's profile

btarb24

12 posts in 2041 days


#11 posted 10-21-2018 08:24 PM



Just a thought – have you thought about contacting BusyBee in Canada? They sell an identical jointer for $1,600 CDN, which is ~$1,200 USD. If they can ship it to the US without duty, and for a few hundred bucks, that s the same price as the Grizzly.

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/jointer-8in-3hp-4-knive-cutterhead-csa-cx08.html

- lumbering_on

Thanks for sharing the busyBee link for the Craftex brand. I’ve never heard of them but they appear to be identical to the grizzly variants. That particular one lacks the spiral cutterhead. This one here would be the equiv link from BusyBee. Comes in at $1525usd($1999cad) vs the grizzly at $1830
https://www.busybeetools.com/products/8in-jointer-helical-cutter-cx08hc.html

It appears that the busyBee site will only ship to Canada, so that $300 savings might be eaten up rather quickly by a shipping forwarder.. i checked a few and none of them would accept a 700lb parcel.

As a consumer, I’m ok with the tariffs as long as there is an american alternative available. However, i suppose that if they stick around for the long term then it might drive new american businesses to sprout up and fill the void caused by people who refuse to pay the tariff. However, that’d be a pretty risky business venture since if the tariffs ever got rescinded you would immediately become out priced again. I do kind of wonder what an equiv american-made clone of these cast iron tools would cost.

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#12 posted 10-21-2018 09:13 PM


Thanks for sharing the busyBee link for the Craftex brand. I ve never heard of them but they appear to be identical to the grizzly variants. That particular one lacks the spiral cutterhead. This one here would be the equiv link from BusyBee. Comes in at $1525usd($1999cad) vs the grizzly at $1830
https://www.busybeetools.com/products/8in-jointer-helical-cutter-cx08hc.html

It appears that the busyBee site will only ship to Canada, so that $300 savings might be eaten up rather quickly by a shipping forwarder.. i checked a few and none of them would accept a 700lb parcel.

As a consumer, I m ok with the tariffs as long as there is an american alternative available. However, i suppose that if they stick around for the long term then it might drive new american businesses to sprout up and fill the void caused by people who refuse to pay the tariff. However, that d be a pretty risky business venture since if the tariffs ever got rescinded you would immediately become out priced again. I do kind of wonder what an equiv american-made clone of these cast iron tools would cost.

- btarb24

From what I’ve heard the owners of Grizzly and Busy Bee are brothers, so they carry a lot of the same items. I have no clue what you would buy down there as equivalent as almost nothing for woodworking is made in North America. General used to be made in Montreal, but they closed that and now make it overseas as General International. Lie Nielsen is made in MA, but last time I checked hand planes don’t come with plugs.

It’s even hard to imagine that they’d open a new factory considering that steel and aluminum is now the most expensive anywhere on the planet.

View tmasondarnell's profile

tmasondarnell

116 posts in 2326 days


#13 posted 10-22-2018 12:54 AM



Have you checked the tables for parallel alignment? If not do so. Hears how.

https://www.woodmagazine.com/tuning-up-your-jointer

How long are you combined jointer tables and, how long is the board are you jointing that you get the big gaps in. Did the jointer ever work right for you?

Edit to add, I always set the dial indicator on the out feed table and use a flat tip/shoe on it.

- AlaskaGuy

I would also recommend the Wood Whisper’s video on squaring up the jointer. Given the cupping, I would be looking at the outfeed table to ensure that all four corners are co-planer and parallel to the knives.

View tmasondarnell's profile

tmasondarnell

116 posts in 2326 days


#14 posted 10-22-2018 12:54 AM


Have you checked the tables for parallel alignment? If not do so. Hears how.

https://www.woodmagazine.com/tuning-up-your-jointer

How long are you combined jointer tables and, how long is the board are you jointing that you get the big gaps in. Did the jointer ever work right for you?

Edit to add, I always set the dial indicator on the out feed table and use a flat tip/shoe on it.

- AlaskaGuy

I would also recommend the Wood Whisper’s video on squaring up the jointer. Given the cupping, I would be looking at the outfeed table to ensure that all four corners are co-planer and parallel to the knives.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1378 posts in 2489 days


#15 posted 10-22-2018 01:22 AM

I am wondering about your comment: “I ran the boards through without putting any downward pressure.. only side pressure toward the fence and enough force to push it through the cutterhead”. Initially, the piece should be firmly on the infeed table so that it is not rising up at the edge entering the cutter head due to the weight of the length of material hanging over the back edge. On the way out, it should be held firmly down to the outfeed table for the same reason. If the leading edge is too high due to the long piece hanging off the end of the infeed table and then the trailing edge is too high due to the long piece hanging off the edge of the outfeed table you would get exactly what you describe. A piece that has high spots on both ends.

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2616 posts in 2382 days


#16 posted 10-22-2018 03:54 PM

Recently I asked about milling door trim that was too long for my jointer. I felt silly jointing the edge of a 70 inch piece when I only had contact with the first and last few inches. So I asked if it was ok to keep repositioning the piece until I had worked off most of the curve from the end. So I slide the piece across and when I lost contact with the cutters I lift it up and bring it back and run it across until it lost contact again. I do this until I start to get a longer cut. Then I reverse and do the other end (spiral head is great).

This would be similar to what one might do with hand planes working further and further from ends.

This saves me a lot of time by concentrating on the portion that needs the most work.

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5414 posts in 2846 days


#17 posted 10-22-2018 04:31 PM


Have you checked the tables for parallel alignment? If not do so. Hears how.

https://www.woodmagazine.com/tuning-up-your-jointer

How long are you combined jointer tables and, how long is the board are you jointing that you get the big gaps in. Did the jointer ever work right for you?

Edit to add, I always set the dial indicator on the out feed table and use a flat tip/shoe on it.

- AlaskaGuy

I would also recommend the Wood Whisper s video on squaring up the jointer. Given the cupping, I would be looking at the outfeed table to ensure that all four corners are co-planer and parallel to the knives.

- tmasondarnell


OK, but my jointer works perfectly.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View firefighterontheside's profile

firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#18 posted 10-22-2018 04:48 PM

I would never attempt to joint something like door trim that bends easily.
When I have long bowed boards I will run it thru one direction until the cutterhead stops making contact. Then switch it end for end and do the same thing. When it gets close to straight, don’t flip around anymore. I’ve never had luck with any kind of accessory table. That’s why I just bought a 6” jointer with a 66” table.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2616 posts in 2382 days


#19 posted 10-23-2018 02:36 AM



I would never attempt to joint something like door trim that bends easily.
When I have long bowed boards I will run it thru one direction until the cutterhead stops making contact. Then switch it end for end and do the same thing. When it gets close to straight, don’t flip around anymore. I’ve never had luck with any kind of accessory table. That’s why I just bought a 6” jointer with a 66” table.

- firefighterontheside


I’m jointing 1×3,75 curly red oak, quite solid, no bending.

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1378 posts in 2489 days


#20 posted 10-23-2018 12:58 PM

FYI. The owner of Grizzly has a letter to the editor in the Wall Street Journal in favor of the tariffs.

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#21 posted 10-23-2018 01:09 PM



FYI. The owner of Grizzly has a letter to the editor in the Wall Street Journal in favor of the tariffs.

- Kazooman

You wouldn’t happen to have the link?

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1378 posts in 2489 days


#22 posted 10-23-2018 01:14 PM

WSJ is behind a paywall, but you can try this:

https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=D211US1045G0&p=Knife+in+a+Gun+Fight+Is+Better+Than+Nothing

The first link should be to the letter. It may come up with a partial text and a message to subscribe. You can try highlighting the title of the letter and then do a search on that. Sometimes you can see it that way. I have no better way to steer you to it than that.

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

11870 posts in 3965 days


#23 posted 10-23-2018 01:39 PM

After fighting my Craftsman 6” jointer for 30 some odd years, I finally gave it away. I now use a plywood straight edge and this router bit from Infinity. I use the 06-695.
But, I find my Tenryu 24T rip blade will give me a decent glue ready edge on most lumber.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2616 posts in 2382 days


#24 posted 10-23-2018 02:44 PM



FYI. The owner of Grizzly has a letter to the editor in the Wall Street Journal in favor of the tariffs.

- Kazooman


Wow! How disappointing to read that he supports the tariffs. Tariffs are being used as a club on other countries like Canada and Mexico that are not abusing us in anyway.

My wife was looking at their 24 24 lathe instead of a Oneway, but I’ll have to dissuade her on that if I can.

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

872 posts in 1639 days


#25 posted 10-23-2018 03:12 PM

Kazooman has it correct in-so-far as handling a long board is concerned. to elaborate a bit on what he said, it is very important to have the workpiece in contact with the infeed and outfeed tables at all times throughout the cut. This is hard to do with a long work piece. You need some downward pressure on the board you are cutting and the place you put the pressure changes as you proceed. You begin with pressure on the infeed side and, as the work piece proceeds to about the end of the outfeed table, change your pressure to the outfeed table side. Again, this becomes more difficult with long work pieces.

The “cupping” you describe is a classic symptom of the outfeed table being too low relative to the cutters. However, you say that you get a good straight cut with shorter work pieces. So, I’m guessing that this is not your problem.

Unfortunately, the use of roller stands can create more problems than they solve. If they are not EXACTLY the same height as the tables, they will contribute to the problem. This is especially true for a work piece with an edge that is not straight. The roller will tend to follow the irregularities and cause an up and down movement resulting in an irregular cut. If the rollers are too low and you depend on them to carry the load, then you will get the results you are getting.

By way of finding a solution I must ask why you need to joint an 8’ piece anyway? If you are constructing a piece of furniture, It is rare that you would need an 8’ foot piece as a component. Cut your components close to final length and then joint them. If you are simply “cleaning up” an edge for something like baseboards or cove molding, use a table saw. If you have a “one time” project that calls for long pieces (like a long table), then maybe your best solution is to take them to a commercial shop to have them jointed.

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

796 posts in 448 days


#26 posted 10-23-2018 04:10 PM

I agree with Kazooman. Back on the subject. If your not making sure to keep the wood on the feed tables properly, then it does matter how parallel the table is. try the chalk method to show your high spots, and correct the high spot accordingly and keep rechecking with the chalk method. I do like the fact of upgrading your 6’ jointer to the G0490X. going from 6’ to a 8”x8’ with the extra long infeed table. It’s the one I’ve been thinking to get. Even though I cut all 8’ and 10’ boards I get, to 38” lengths before working with them.

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#27 posted 10-23-2018 04:56 PM


WSJ is behind a paywall, but you can try this:

https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=D211US1045G0&p=Knife+in+a+Gun+Fight+Is+Better+Than+Nothing

The first link should be to the letter. It may come up with a partial text and a message to subscribe. You can try highlighting the title of the letter and then do a search on that. Sometimes you can see it that way. I have no better way to steer you to it than that.

- Kazooman

Thanks I found it. I hate to go off topic like this, but I did notice that Mr. Balolia mentioned he was going to be importing from other countries, and not sourcing from US companies. It’s a rather…interesting thing to say.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5414 posts in 2846 days


#28 posted 10-23-2018 05:03 PM

If you want this thread to end up being closed continue with the politics. It always ends that way.

Just saying

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View btarb24's profile

btarb24

12 posts in 2041 days


#29 posted 10-23-2018 06:44 PM

Well, the grizzly jointer was just billed to my credit card today, so i think my decision has been set to rest. New tools are always more fun anyway, right?

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#30 posted 10-23-2018 08:05 PM



Well, the grizzly jointer was just billed to my credit card today, so i think my decision has been set to rest. New tools are always more fun anyway, right?

- btarb24

It’s all fun and games until somebody loses an eye. :)

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2616 posts in 2382 days


#31 posted 10-24-2018 03:01 AM



If you want this thread to end up being closed continue with the politics. It always ends that way.

Just saying

- AlaskaGuy


No, politics won’t get a thread shut down, insults do.

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5414 posts in 2846 days


#32 posted 10-24-2018 03:32 AM

:)

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4592 posts in 4279 days


#33 posted 10-24-2018 04:31 AM

I would check that the tables are coplaner.

If the infeed or outfeed table has a bit of a sag to it, you can measure the blades as being even with the outfeed table but instead imaging the cutter as the apex and your infeed and/or outfeed being “Downhill” from the cutter.

That would always give you the result you are seeing Often, jointers have been moved/dragged on mobile bases by the outfeed table, and the table sags a little.

SOmetimes just making sure the lock/gib screw is enough to take the play out of the ways…. otherwise you may need to shim. If shimming is needed, shim the outfeed table since you generally never need to move it around, while the infeed side is being moved to adjust depth of cut.

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2023 days


#34 posted 10-24-2018 12:49 PM

Donald Trump is my hero.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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