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Which Hand Plane Next?

by gauntlet21
posted 10-17-2018 06:00 PM


36 replies so far

View JADobson's profile

JADobson

1442 posts in 2504 days


#1 posted 10-17-2018 06:06 PM

What are you planning on building next?

-- No craft is very far from the line beyond which is magic. -- Lord Dunsany — Instagram @grailwoodworks

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2312 posts in 2383 days


#2 posted 10-17-2018 07:28 PM

Decide what you need/want the plane to do. You have a pwr jointer, do you want a manual jointer? You mention a shooting plane ….When you can decide what you want it to do we may be of some help, but you also state LN is the desired brand, so once you decide what the plane will do just go to LN’s website and pick one out.

I think the only thing I can offer is I’ve used both LN and Veritas planes, and only Veritas are in my shop. Both are excellent products, I prefer the design improvements Veritas offers.

Hi angle planes are for preventing tear out, usually with highly figured wood. Use the lowest angle that doesnt tear out. LOw angle planes/edges are for end grain. Most are bevel up, but Veritas has 40* frogs for their bd custom planes.

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

8651 posts in 2970 days


#3 posted 10-17-2018 07:39 PM

A 50 degree Lie Nielsen Jack plane is a great addition to my shop. It works well and hasn’t produced any

tear out yet.

Atoma diamond plates and a 8000 Japanese water stone keep cutting edges sharp.

You’re wise to purchase quality planes, congrats!

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

9569 posts in 1532 days


#4 posted 10-17-2018 07:46 PM

I don’t have a low angle plane but it’s definitely on my “one day” list. I wouldn’t want to be without my jack but I could get by without my jointer if I had to.

And you may not realize you need a skewed block plane yet but after you get one, you’ll realize it ;-) Seriously, if I could only keep 2 planes, they would be my skewed block and my 4-1/2 smoother. If I got to keep a third, it would be my 5-1/2 jumbo jack.

That’s probably no help but it’s all I got…

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10858 posts in 1879 days


#5 posted 10-17-2018 07:49 PM

Well it’s a good thing their #7 actually weights less than their shooter. Which is a beast.

There are some woods where a LA plane would be a better choice but by and large a standard bench plane is the go to. It is the value and versatility of changing the iron in a LA plane that appeals to many. My primary reason for not buying in? It doesn’t have a chipbreaker. You can overcome that in a LA plane by changing to 50 deg or so iron. I’d rather pick up a different plane than change the iron.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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PPK

1409 posts in 1202 days


#6 posted 10-17-2018 09:45 PM

I’m planning to build a Krenov woodie next! Just throwing that out there ;)

-- Pete

View KYtoolsmith's profile

KYtoolsmith

78 posts in 253 days


#7 posted 10-17-2018 10:45 PM

I recently went to the Lie Nielsen “road show” in Berea KY. Lots to drool over! One of the LN guys was demoing their Low Angle 62. Planing curly maple was no problem… But his iron was ground at 35 deg. As this is a bevel up plane, 35 + the 12 degree frog made an effective cutting angle of 47 degrees! A standard Bailey or bedrock is at 45 degrees… Effectively he was making a low angle plane act like a standard bench plane. I also noticed his lateral adjustment was a brass hammer! I saw the 7 1/2… But for my money the standard bench jointer is my go-to.
$.02 from Kentucky…

-- "Good enough" is just another way of saying "it could be better"...

View gauntlet21's profile

gauntlet21

69 posts in 604 days


#8 posted 10-18-2018 02:31 PM

Thanks all very much. I appreciate your input despite my lack of additional details in terms of what kind of projects I make. I do a lot of work with very standard domestic woods (so far) and the usual higher end plywood. As I’m learning more and more I find simple projects that help out around my garage/workshop and my house. I recently built this screwdriver holder made of white oak.

https://imgur.com/a/V3ooXmF

I put in a tier system to differentiate the screwdrivers by height and created the need for a shoulder plane (a rabbet plane would have also worked). The hardwoods that I currently have a small supply of are white and red oak, cherry, and elm. Eventually, when I find a good hardwood supplier I’ll probably add the other domestic hardwoods like hickory, walnut, maple, birch, etc. (I live in Wisconsin, USA). I also will dabble in some of the exotic woods like purple heart, bubinga, etc. I’ll be working on a new project shortly once the design is established, of a tool cabinet much like the style that hangs from a wall, has hinged doors, holds hand planes upright against the back wall, chisels, saws, etc. I do like the idea of a manual jointer because in order to use my power jointer, I might need to pull a car out, roll the machine into place, plug it in, connect the dust collector hose, and then do all the same in reverse order. If I needed a single board jointed, I’d be able to save the power jointer for the larger tasks. I’m also wondering if you had all the numbered planes except for the jack plane, despite the versatility of the jack plane, and if you weren’t ever lazy, would the jack plane be the best plane in any situation? Example: if smoothing, use a #4 or #4-1/2, if jointing, use #7, if “fill in the blank”, use a #5 or 5-1/2 jack plane. I’m leaning towards a jack, jointer, or fore plane. I don’t yet understand what situation a fore plane is perfect for so maybe I’ll narrow it down to jack or jointer. Considering I’ve got smoothing covered with my new #4, perhaps a jointer plane would suit me well. I’m not sure if the jointer plane is too large however for a standard to smaller size shooting board though. Eventually, I think I’ll end up purchasing both a jointer and a jack plane. Thanks again for the help!

View WayneC's profile

WayneC

14358 posts in 4490 days


#9 posted 10-18-2018 08:04 PM

A router plane would be a good suggestion. Modern LV or LN. A grooving plane is nice. Record 043/044 or Stanley 45/55.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1427 posts in 2029 days


#10 posted 10-18-2018 09:09 PM

Whatever you do Dan, Don’t let these guys talk you into buying a used plane and restoring it.
Once you start down that path there is no way to stop. You’ll start finding them everywhere you go. Yard sales, estate sales, thrift stores, small antique shops.
It’s a sickness that has no cure! .....Run Dan! Run away while you still can!

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View PPK's profile

PPK

1409 posts in 1202 days


#11 posted 10-18-2018 09:11 PM



Whatever you do Dan, Don t let these guys talk you into buying a used plane and restoring it.
Once you start down that path there is no way to stop. You ll start finding them everywhere you go. Yard sales, estate sales, thrift stores, small antique shops.
It s a sickness that has no cure! .....Run Dan! Run away while you still can!

- fivecodys

I’d go so far as to say that you should never buy or build any handplane, as that in and of itself is a disease that spreads and never stops… :)

-- Pete

View JayT's profile

JayT

6211 posts in 2604 days


#12 posted 10-18-2018 09:24 PM

I m also wondering if you had all the numbered planes except for the jack plane, despite the versatility of the jack plane, and if you weren t ever lazy, would the jack plane be the best plane in any situation? Example: if smoothing, use a #4 or #4-1/2, if jointing, use #7, if “fill in the blank”, use a #5 or 5-1/2 jack plane. I m leaning towards a jack, jointer, or fore plane. I don t yet understand what situation a fore plane is perfect for so maybe I ll narrow it down to jack or jointer. Considering I ve got smoothing covered with my new #4, perhaps a jointer plane would suit me well. I m not sure if the jointer plane is too large however for a standard to smaller size shooting board though. Eventually, I think I ll end up purchasing both a jointer and a jack plane. Thanks again for the help!

- gauntlet21

Part of the problem having a conversation about planes is people use the terminology differently. A jack plane is called that because it’s a jack of all trades, master of none. It’s a decent jointer, smoother or even fore plane and doesn’t excel at any of those tasks. A fore plane is called such because it was the one used before any of the others to scrub, remove warp and dimension the wood. Fore planes usually have a cambered iron and wide open mouth to take deep cuts. A jack plane set up with a cambered iron and used first is also a fore plane.

If wanting one plane to do jointing and shooting, a #5-1/2 or #6 can do both really well. While the #7 & 8 sizes are traditionally called the jointer planes, I do at least 95% of my jointing with a #6 size. It’s long enough to get you a very straight edge and flat surface, yet lighter and easier to push around all day than a #7. A 5-1/2 is close enough in size (3in shorter) to have the same advantages. Unless you are doing a lot of large furniture pieces, you don’t need anything bigger. Actually, even if you are doing large furniture pieces, you don’t need anything bigger.

The 5-1/2 and 6 also have enough mass and size to make good work on a shooting board. I’ve used a #5 and even a #4 for shooting, but the larger plane is nicer to use. And all that works until you keep going down the rabbit hole and find out that you really want a shooting plane.

If you get really obsessed, you go from using and restoring to designing and making your own. That’s a whole ‘nother addiction.

-- https://www.jtplaneworks.com - In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

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waho6o9

8651 posts in 2970 days


#13 posted 10-18-2018 09:25 PM

Gents speak the truth ^

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2312 posts in 2383 days


#14 posted 10-19-2018 04:05 PM

Make your decisions based on how you want to accomplish various common steps in the building process, not specific projects. A future project may create the need for another tool, but to get started focus on commonalities.

You gonna use your powered toys to dim lumber? I suspect so if you give dim lumber with planes a try, and if that turns out to be true, it changes the discussion on bench planes. I find dim lumber with planes a waste of time – too easy to run it thru power equipment. But I joint, flatten glue ups, and prep all surfaces for finishing with planes. A 4-1/2 and a 7 is all thats needed. A block for misc stuff. Shooting board use to square ends – a 5-1/2 or 6 works, but a LA is sure nice, a LA jack or dedicated shooter. What type of joints will you do? A shoulder plane takes care of most. Then decide how you want to do rabbits, grooves, etc – power or plane. Keep working through the common process steps as a guide to the tools needed.

View gauntlet21's profile

gauntlet21

69 posts in 604 days


#15 posted 10-22-2018 02:43 PM

So after getting my No. 4 all set up and in action, I finally got a crystal clear understanding of why grain direction is so important when you’re planing. Even with a razor sharp blade, tear out still occurs if you’re planing the wrong way. So I have some more learning to do regarding the advantages of various angles. I know that low angle planes help prevent tear out but then I’ve also read that a higher angle in a standard bench plane can prevent tear out too? Instead of going at the wood with a 45 degree angle, a 50 or 55 degree angle is supposed to prevent tear out as well? So perhaps the next best plane for me would be a low angle jack plane or a low angle jointer plane. One question that I did have was when I was planing in the correct direction (relative to the grain) and I wasn’t getting any tear out, how would I go about planing the very first portion of the board when I have very little of the plane atop it to register it? In the case of my current project (shooting board), everything is still roughly dimensioned so I can cut off that first portion this time, but in the future, if I turned the board around to plane that little front portion, I’m likely going to get some tear out. Maybe I’d need to switch planes at that point to a low angle one (when I purchase that plane). I’m assuming there are some other tricks out there though so if you’ve got one, please enlighten me.

Thanks,

Dan

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JayT

6211 posts in 2604 days


#16 posted 10-22-2018 03:17 PM


I know that low angle planes help prevent tear out but then I ve also read that a higher angle in a standard bench plane can prevent tear out too? Instead of going at the wood with a 45 degree angle, a 50 or 55 degree angle is supposed to prevent tear out as well?

Thanks,

Dan

- gauntlet21

There are a several things that help prevent tearout. Sharp is obviously of primary importance. The mouth opening and, on a bevel down plane, the cap iron (also called the chip breaker) are also important. When referencing the primary difference between a low angle bevel up plane and a high angle bevel down, however, you are looking at attack angle. That’s the angle between the surface being planed and the leading face of the blade. A higher attack angle helps prevent tearout by producing more of a scraping action that breaks the wood fibers. A lower attack angle tends to lift the fibers more before they break—that is tearout.

On a bevel down plane, that angle is controlled by the frog angle, as the back of the iron is parallel to the face of the frog. A 50 degree frog will have a 50 degree attack angle.

On a low angle plane that is bevel up, you control the attack angle by the angle at which you sharpen the bevel. The bed of those planes is generally 12 degrees, so add the bevel angle to get the attack angle. 12 degree bed plus a 25 degree bevel gives you a 37 degree attack—very good for slicing end grain, horrible for preventing tearout. By sharpening to a higher angle you can increase the attack angle. A 12 degree bed plus a 38 degree bevel will give you a 50 degree attack angle, a 55 degree attack is created with a 43 degree bevel.

Therein is the rallying cry of those that prefer bevel up planes, it is relatively easy to change the attack angle by simply sharpening at a different angle or having multiple blades sharpened at different angles.

What low angle planes miss out on is the added effect of a cap iron. A well tuned and set cap iron can do wonders to prevent tearout by rapidly increasing the angle the wood fibers must negotiate, thus breaking them off before bad tearout can occur. My preference is well tuned and sharpened bevel down planes for tricky grain because of that cap iron advantage. Others prefer low angle. Do what works for you, just know that a low angle plane is not a necessity for good woodworking.

As far as planing the first portion of the board, practice. It is not that difficult to learn how to get the plane to take a cut starting at the beginning of the board, just takes practice to gain understanding of how the plane is operating and training your muscles to keep the plane flat and level without a lot of sole to assist.

-- https://www.jtplaneworks.com - In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3403 posts in 1874 days


#17 posted 10-22-2018 04:11 PM

To answer the original post, I think a #6 would be a good next choice. I use mine for shooting, flattening faces, edge jointing.

You shouldn’t have to turn a board around to plane the edge. Start out with pressure on the toe of the frog. Don’t use the knob, but press down directly on the base just forward of the knob. When you feel the registration, start the stroke using light pressure on the tote and keep that arm parallel to the board.

JayT is correct re: the la plane. High angle planes can also be used when tear out is an issue, like with highly figured wood.

But in reality, if you’re dealing with figured wood or incalcitrant grain, I would go to a scraper and/or sanding.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2312 posts in 2383 days


#18 posted 10-22-2018 04:30 PM


What low angle planes miss out on is the added effect of a cap iron. A well tuned and set cap iron can do wonders to prevent tearout by rapidly increasing the angle the wood fibers must negotiate, thus breaking them off before bad tearout can occur. My preference is well tuned and sharpened bevel down planes for tricky grain because of that cap iron advantage. Others prefer low angle. Do what works for you, just know that a low angle plane is not a necessity for good woodworking.

- JayT

While I agree that a properly tuned cap iron helps a lot with tear out (IMO much better than a tight mouth), a 45° BD plane will only go so far, and that is when a LA plane with a higher attack angle will outperform the BD. The LA bevel needs to be min 43°, and up to ~50° (55°-62° cut angle). Plenty of experience with both has demonstrated this to be fact and not opinion or preference. A BD plane with a higher frog angle and cap iron will handle highly figured wood as well. I also have a BD woody bedded at 62° that outperforms a std bench plane in figured wood. I also prefer to use a std 45° bench plane as much as possible, but you must have a backup when it isn’t enough, or use different wood.

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JayT

6211 posts in 2604 days


#19 posted 10-22-2018 04:43 PM

OSU55, you are correct about a 45 degree frog on a typical iron plane, I should have been more clear. My preference for tricky grain and figured wood is a high angle bevel down plane with a cap iron over a bevel up that doesn’t have the cap iron advantage. My primary smoothers are 50 degrees and I have 55 and 60 degree ones, as well, for those times when the grain doesn’t want to cooperate. That has been the case long enough that I tend to forget that others usually only have the standard 45 degree tools to use.

I also agree that the properly tuned and set cap iron is more important than the mouth. Ranking in importance, I would put mouth as the lowest priority of the four variables, with sharp at the top and the angle and cap iron in the middle.

-- https://www.jtplaneworks.com - In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

View gauntlet21's profile

gauntlet21

69 posts in 604 days


#20 posted 10-22-2018 09:17 PM

Thanks again! I also watched another YouTube video regarding tear out and it answered my question very well. I’ve got more of a dilemma than I thought I had based on what I now know. I’m trying to strategize now with swappable blades between two different planes if possible and I didnt realize that tackling end grain requires an actual low angle of attack (37 degrees or so) while wood that tears out easily requires high angles to prevent tear out. It is enlightening and daunting all at the same time because now I realize I still need more setups within the same plane. I’m good with sharpening the blades so I believe that’s going to be the easiest method to alter my planes from standard to high for smoothing and preventing tear out as well as lowering my angle for shooting and end grain. Swapping frogs seems like a bit of a hassle but I could be wrong. I’ll have to play around with my chipnreaker distance as well. One more question for everyone. Of course after I mentioned that I am good at sharpening, I managed to sharpen my blade so that the primary bevel was 25 degrees and my secondary bevel turned out to be uniform in size except for about 1/5th of the bevel where I had to keep on sharpening over and over to finally get that portion to have a mirrored edge. Here’s my actual question(s). Does the primary bevel matter greatly if the secondary bevel is actually doing the cutting? If I took my secondary bevel up to 16000 with a Shapton should my primary bevel also be mirror finished or is the secondary bevel all that matters? If it needs to be, I have to go back and redo it all which is just part of learning I suppose. The plane cuts really well nonetheless but I am trying to figure out how I managed to get such an uneven secondary bevel. My setup is Shapton stones, the Shapton diamond lapping plate, the Veritas MKII honing guide, so unless a stone was truly not flat or I didnt quite have the blade seated absolutely perfect in the guide, I managed to somehow screw it up despite my careful attention to detail. If I need to g I’ll back and start sharpening again, I’ll work the primary further because it’s probably only sharpened up to 1000 or 4000 grit.

View JayT's profile

JayT

6211 posts in 2604 days


#21 posted 10-22-2018 10:23 PM

On a bevel down plane, the only bevel that matters is the one touching the wood, so the primary doesn’t factor in. You do want the back to be flat and smooth, as well as the leading edge of the cap iron, so that the wood shavings can glide easily. For a bevel up plane, you’d need that primary to smooth for the same reason.

I assume you are talking about your LN #4? If so, as long as the cutting edge is straight(ish) and sharp, you should be good to go. If that portion you were sharpening over and over results in an edge that is crooked, you won’t get good results.

End grain doesn’t require a low attack angle—I’ve done a ton of shooting with regular 45 degree bevel down bench planes that are really sharp. The low angle does reduce the amount of force required and will generally leave a nicer finish.

-- https://www.jtplaneworks.com - In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2312 posts in 2383 days


#22 posted 10-23-2018 12:15 AM

For a BU plane, no, the primary does not need to be super finished. I hollow grind my primary and leave it, then do micro bevels for the cutting edge. For a BU with a hi angle, say 45 bevel, make your primary 45, then increase the angle for the microbevels. The microbevels are not long enough up the edge to break the chip. Not the same for LA end grain, the chip doesnt have to be broken. For fhat you want the final microbevel at the highest angle, say 25, then work backwards to determine the primary. I use 20. Also, A2 steel doesnt do well at 25 for end grain, it likes to chip. If using A2 for end grain make it 30, the edge will hold up better. O1 and pmV11 do fine at 25.

JayT I agree with your order of importance for dealing with tear out.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10858 posts in 1879 days


#23 posted 10-23-2018 01:03 AM

For the finest smoothing, I set the chip breaker as close as I can. Less than 1/64.

A sharp iron and a well tuned chip breaker can handle most squirrelly grain. Depends on the wood. Some will cooperate and some won’t. I usually don’t push it on a large piece but on a jewelry box side or relatively small panel I’ll give it a shot every now and again. If it tears out Ill touch it up with a scraper anyway. Depends on how patient I am :)

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

22986 posts in 3076 days


#24 posted 10-23-2018 04:48 AM

Also…rub the sole of the planes with a bit of wax…like a plain candle. It tends to make the planes easier to push…but, you better hang on tight..plane might take off on you….DAMHIKT…

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1976 posts in 2287 days


#25 posted 10-23-2018 06:31 AM

The plane cuts really well nonetheless but I am trying to figure out how I managed to get such an uneven secondary bevel.

- gauntlet21

A common problem using that MkII – but one that is easy to fix. Pay attention how you screw those knobs. You may think you’re tightening them evenly, but if you’re not paying attention you probably won’t. I look at how much threaded bolt is sticking out (or is inside) the brass knob and compare it with the other one. If one bolt is higher than the other, your bevel will be skewed. If they’re even, your bevel will be straight. It took me a few sharpenings to figure this out. I had several skewed bevels when I first bought it. Since I started paying attention to the knobs, I’ve never had dumb looking bevel.

I think it’s easier to screw up chisels with that guide, which is why I do all my chisels freehand now. But I still use it for plane blades.

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Sylvain

826 posts in 2892 days


#26 posted 10-23-2018 09:25 AM

To answer the initial question, as you already have a #4, a block plane and a shoulder plane,
I would give the following list:
- a router plane;
- a plough plane;
- a rabbet plane;
- a cabinet scraper (Stanley 80);
- a flat bottomed spokeshaves;
...
Each plane has it own personality which you have to master. Don’t buy other #s before mastering the one you have.
If you look the Paul Sellers Videos, you will see that almost everything can be done with a single #4.
I am using my #4 for shooting without problem.
Save the money to buy lumber.

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

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gauntlet21

69 posts in 604 days


#27 posted 10-23-2018 05:29 PM

Thanks again for the great advice. To Sylvain, I’ve had pretty good luck with the MKII but am still learning. Eventually, I’d like to get to just freehand sharpening (I freehand sharpen my knives) but am tentative with my new hand plane blades because I’ve only got one blade and if I screw it up royally, then I can’t use the plane temporarily. I do pay attention to the tightening knobs but may have missed it once. I’m going to put some kind of a notch or mark on the knurled knobs so that I can reference how many times they’ve been turned to keep it even. To everyone else, I’m glad that the secondary bevel on my No.4 is all that matters. I thought that made sense but wanted to verify. I’ll correct the uneven secondary bevel with subsequent sharpenings. The No. 4 is working beautifully. I have my chip breaker up close (~1mm) to the blade and didn’t tighten the chip breaker bolt quite enough. I was planing some red oak and the cutting stopped altogether. I took everything apart and noticed that the chip breaker and blade were even (the chip breaker had slid forward). I disassembled and found shavings in between the chip breaker and blade so then I made sure to tighten that up and resumed beautifully. I think I’ll take the advice of a few mentions and work on using my No. 4 every place I can and master it. I’m putting together a relatively intricate (for me) shooting board right now which has been a lot of fun. Here’s a picture of the features that I’m attempting to incorporate.

https://imgur.com/a/i82UgpH

What I like about it is the simplicity and intuitiveness. Again, I’ve said it in all of my posts on Lumberjocks, I’m a new woodworker with about a year to year and a half experience. So ensuring that my boards are perfectly aligned and that my dados and rabbets are straight are major accomplishments for me (yippee). So far I have the two main boards screwed and glued together. I used 3/4” maple veneer plywood for both pieces. They’re actually straight as well which amazes me when I get desirable results. It’s extremely satisfying to discover that your techniques are validated by the results of your work. I’ve seen many versions of shooting boards that have wedges or angled pieces to shoot miters and thought that incorporating the square with an attached piece of hardwood was genius. I put that groove into the top of my shooting board last night and even that came out beautifully. The square sits perfectly in the groove without any slop whatsoever. As I complete more and more steps while I’m developing a project (the shooting board for example) I find myself putting off the more complicated elements until the end. One other idea that I really think is brilliant is incorporating 2 boards for the main 90 degree fence. Here’s a picture of what I mean.

https://imgur.com/a/zvVjIp8

If I decide to go along this route, I need to put a dado in my shooting board that is perfectly perpendicular to the railway, cut a small piece of hardwood that’s exactly that dado width, and then put that same dado in a larger piece of hardwood to ride atop the first piece. I suppose I could make a practice setup with some scraps and see how it turns out. I’m trying to get back to the main topic of hand plane decisions and I’ve got the itch to buy one more. I’m really debating over the LN #5-1/2, the LN #6, and the Veritas #5-1/4W and Veritas #6. I feel like the value is in the Veritas being that you can get a PM-V11 blade in a #6 for $282 while a LN #6 with A2 steel is going to set you back $375. One other option I just discovered is the Veritas Custom Bench Planes. Has anyone gone that route yet or is it too new that perhaps nobody has customized their Veritas planes yet. They’re a bit more expensive and I’ve yet to see what the differences available are. In general are there preferences within your set of planes where you keep it set up with a “higher than normal” bevel or a high angle frog? I’m guessing that’s kind of the role for a jack plane but just thought that maybe you’d do vary your setup on your #6 IF you also own a #7. Or perhaps your #7 is setup differently than traditional 45 degrees IF you also own a #8. I’ll stop rambling but all of your posts have assisted me greatly. I’ve mentioned in other posts that I don’t woodwork with anybody else, it’s a personal hobby that I decided to take up one day so everything I learn is from magazine articles, forums like this, and of course, YouTube.

Thanks as always,

Dan

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile (online now)

Smitty_Cabinetshop

16128 posts in 3011 days


#28 posted 10-23-2018 09:25 PM

Dan, I’ve got a full set of (vintage) Stanley bench planes and I’ve used every one of them. There’s pictures and dialog about all of them in my posts here on LJs, too. It was very exciting to collect them all and try them out / learn the different ways they could best be used. That said, here’s my .02:

  • All I really, truly need and would use regularly if I’d choose to cull the herd are a #4, #4 1/2, #5 and #8. Coarse (#5), medium (#8) and fine (#4, #4 1/2). All standard frogs and original irons. The #4 1/2 is incredible when working faces of larger pieces. Block planes include a LN #164 and a Stanley SW (vintage) #62 to address low angle, bevel up tasks.
  • A #5 1/4 is a narrow #5, so what’s a #5 1/4W? Sounds like a jack plane to me.
  • A #5 1/2 is a short #6, and those are in turn short jointers. I like long jointers, hence the #8
  • A #7 is also a wannabe #8

Like I said, all opinion. But based on my experience with these tools. Do what you can to get to a LN event and try them for yourself, is my suggestion.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View knockknock's profile

knockknock

469 posts in 2566 days


#29 posted 10-24-2018 10:53 AM


... * A #5 1/4 is a narrow #5, so what s a #5 1/4W? Sounds like a jack plane to me.

- Smitty_Cabinetshop


The LV/Veritas 5 1/4W is a short jack plane. It is 12” long, 4 3/8” toe, 2” blade, 4lb 14oz (about the same as a Stanley #5). Think of a #4 smoother and adding a long toe. The toe helps it track flatter like a longer plane and easier to start at the edge of a board.

-- 👀 --

View gauntlet21's profile

gauntlet21

69 posts in 604 days


#30 posted 10-26-2018 02:44 AM

So last night when I was trying to plane a normal piece of red oak, I looked at my blade and one side that wasn’t cutting anymore had the edge all dinged up. It was minimal but enough to stop cutting. I have no idea how it got that way because when I set my plane down I always set it on a rubber mat or retract the blade. Nonetheless, I got the Shapton’s out and worked on correcting the non uniform secondary bevel AND read a bit more in the Veritas MKII manual on setting a higher back bevel. I’m still not certain of the actual ORDER in which I should be sharpening (I’ll explain that question in more detail), but after I put a 10 degree back bevel on the No. 4, I took a shaving today that was immaculate! After my first sharpening and some planing, by the time I finally put the plane to my current project (the red oak), I must have had a dull blade because I was getting tear out. I have no idea yet as to how much planing actually requires you to resharpen your blade but when I went at the red oak today, the shaving was full width, curly as can be, and the effort required to push the blade through the cut was effortless. I have nothing to compare my planing to (this is the first bench plane I’ve ever owned and used) but this felt like what all the hype was about. Where I was getting tear out, I no longer had any. Where the plane was getting held up, it rode straight through start to finish. And I can’t explain how smooth the wood was after it was planed. It felt smoother and looked clearer than any 220 grit I’ve ever used. If I wasn’t hooked on hand planes already, I definitely am now.

I’d love to get to a Lie Nielsen show sometime but I’m not sure the last time they’ve come near my neck of the woods. My guess would be that I’d have to make the trek to Chicago if they ever stop there. I’m located outside of Milwaukee, Wisconsin so there’s a chance, all be it a small one, that they’ve stopped somewhere in Wisconsin. I don’t believe they have anything planned however on their current tour. One more quick question for anyone who has continued to read this thread, I watched a Matt Estlea video where he compared Lie Nielsen and Veritas bench planes and one mention he made that left me wondering which plane to buy next was that the Veritas handles fit larger hands better. I’ve got relatively large hands (when I buy any pair of gloves I always buy XL) and although it consumes all of the Lie Nielsen No. 4 handle, I’m able to use it comfortably thanks to the method by which Matt Estlea holds the No. 4 Lie Nielsen, with somewhat of a “rock on” hand gesture. Does anyone know if the Lie Nielsen bench planes larger than the No. 4 have larger handles as well or are all the handles on all of the planes essentially interchangeable? It’d be a nice benefit if the handles were just a tad bigger but not a deal breaker. Lastly, I’ve attached photos of my current shooting board progress below.

https://imgur.com/gallery/JBVjnh0

One more dilemma I came across is that I meant to use the table saw to put a very narrow and shallow dado right along the edge of the top board so that if any sawdust gets into the crack, it doesn’t mess up the registration of the plane. Now that it is all assembled, I don’t have the confidence to run the table saw right along that edge without risking the chance of cutting into the raised edge. I’m wondering if anyone else has an idea besides running a narrow chisel along that edge and just manually hacking a groove/dado in. I’m contemplating also purchasing the Veritas Miniature Plow Plane which has a 3/16” wide blade and using it like a shoulder plane to just put that groove into the bottom board. I’d love to hear any other suggestions as to how you’d accomplish this task.

I decided against some of the fancier details (that I’ve posted in earlier posts in this thread) for this shooting board to just get one built and see how well it performs. I’ll save those details for my next attempt at a shooting board. I’m going to guess that when I need to plane a thin piece of stock and my front stop is too tall, I’ll get to making a modified version. This current version is a blended version using many features from Michael Pekovich and a single tip from Rob Cosman. If you’re looking at the unsightly marks along the reference edge and wondering what that is, it is 2P10 (superglue). I did intend to put a piece of red oak along the edge which would stand up better than the plywood but realized that fact after I had already cut the front fence to length, whoops. Anyways, Rob Cosman recommended using superglue along that edge just to reinforce the plywood. What’s nice about that tip is, the superglue absorbs into the wood so there isn’t any uneven thickness to the edge. The surface is just made rock hard instead. Just for aesthetics, I might put a piece of painter’s tape along the top side of that board and apply another thin coat so the visual appearance is clean and straight. Or, I may decide to put some spray paint or something else there that would just cover it up altogether. Considering it isn’t going to be making any magazine articles, I’ll leave it for the time being. Thanks once again for the advice on hand planes. I am going to be placing my order on Friday for a Lie Nielsen No. 6 unless I change my mind beforehand. Considering I have a smoother, a power jointer, and a power planer, I’m going to go for the No. 6 and use it as a longer jack plane. I’ll be able to take advantage of the longer sole for better jointing (than a 5 or 5-1/2) and use it for shooting as well. I’m sure eventually I’ll purchase the 5 or 5-1/2 but for now, Adding a long hand plane should allow me to get almost anywhere I want to go in hand planing. It’s certainly addicting though and enjoyable to pick up and use a finely made tool.

Dan

View goochs's profile

goochs

62 posts in 1623 days


#31 posted 10-28-2018 01:15 PM

I agree on not buying used, it’s a sickness, I started with an old plane that was found in my garage. Tuned and cleaned it and it worked so so. Then bought a cheap block plane, it worked better so bought into a low angle stanley block, still like the cheap lowes one better. Broke down and bought a number 3 woodriver. Cut shavings like glass, love it! From there I was given an old craftmans #4, works fine so I turned it into a scrub plane. Then I bought a used number 5,restored stanley(72 dollars) work as good if not better than my #3. To make a long story short I picked up a stanley #7 jointer for $25, a #45 stanley complete with cutters for $50, a stanley rabbit plane $25, another #3, this one and old stanley, replaced the blade with a woodriver #3 blade and I get 1/2 thousandth shavings with.
Considering that I have every power tool you can imagine, YES THIS IS A SICKNESS!!
I forgot, I also have a #62 woodriver which I use on a shooting board, awesome!!

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

5206 posts in 4353 days


#32 posted 10-28-2018 01:52 PM

Gauntlet21, I am a plane nut, and enjoy the banter that accompanies these discussions, but PLEASE break up your postings into paragraphs. Much easier to read, and a bunch easier to reply to the specific points of concern.
This comment is meant to be a constructive and positive responsive.
Keep up the good work.

-- [email protected]

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

3998 posts in 2382 days


#33 posted 10-28-2018 02:40 PM

There are several who have answered your questions with great advice.

I am not a hand worker and use mostly power tools. However, I do use them quite a bit. I have an LN 4-1/2, a medium shoulder plane, a small low angle block plane and a home made router plane. These do everything I need. I sharpen with Worksharp. This works well for me and others use much better methods.

You need to figure out what you want to do and get out if your planes. Learn to use the planes you have practicing on several types of wood before you buy new planes. This will take time. Practicing is a lot better than Youtube. You have to feel the woodshed you are using the plane.

Lastly, PLEASE break up you posts into smaller paragraphs. Many people read LJ on more devices or have older eyes and your posts are hard to read. I have tried writing posts in something like Word and then copy and paste into LJ. For me, when I do this I lose the paragraphs and some formatting.

I like it when people post their pictures and not link to them. I hate to have to wait as you go to another site to see a picture and then have to close it before you read more of the post.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2312 posts in 2383 days


#34 posted 10-29-2018 03:37 PM

Dan, as to your questions about totes, I think, but not 100% positive, that the LN totes 4 and up are essentially the same as far as fitting the hand. I have large hands and made custom totes and knobs for all my Stanley and Veritas bench planes. Drawings here. Just pointing out an option.

View Sylvain's profile

Sylvain

826 posts in 2892 days


#35 posted 10-29-2018 06:20 PM

About tote dimension.
One is supposed to use only three digit (and the thumb) to grab the tote; the index pointing forward.
It is the same for saw handles.

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2312 posts in 2383 days


#36 posted 10-29-2018 06:50 PM



About tote dimension.
One is supposed to use only three digit (and the thumb) to grab the tote; the index pointing forward.
It is the same for saw handles.

- Sylvain


When the width of the hand with the thumb wrapped under the horn doesnt fit, it doesnt matter what is done with the index finger, but I usually rest it on the adjustment wheel on Stanleys and wrap it on LVs. Unlike trying to saw a straight line, bench planes typically dont need to travel a perfect straight line, so do what feels best.

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