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View fly2low's profile

23 g pinner

by fly2low
posted 10-15-2018 02:41 PM


46 replies so far

View Robert's profile

Robert

3571 posts in 2048 days


#1 posted 10-15-2018 02:44 PM

Home Depot couple years ago: pin nailer + 18g for $50.

No issues at all.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Rick  Dennington's profile (online now)

Rick Dennington

6785 posts in 3762 days


#2 posted 10-15-2018 02:50 PM

I use a Porter Cable 18 gauge pin nailer…..All of my nail guns are Porter Cable….Never had a problem with any of them….

-- " There's a better way.....find it"...... Thomas Edison.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

1448 posts in 1384 days


#3 posted 10-15-2018 02:55 PM

About 10 years ago, I got interested in 23 gauge pin nailers and bought a Harbor Freight gun on sale for the princely sum of $10. I promised myself that if the tool turned out to be useful, I would replace it with a good one. Well, 10 years and about 10 million pins later, I am still using that same Harbor Freight pinner. I keep hoping it will fail so I can justify a good one but it just hasn’t happened.

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1537 posts in 2204 days


#4 posted 10-15-2018 03:08 PM



About 10 years ago, I got interested in 23 gauge pin nailers and bought a Harbor Freight gun on sale for the princely sum of $10. I promised myself that if the tool turned out to be useful, I would replace it with a good one. Well, 10 years and about 10 million pins later, I am still using that same Harbor Freight pinner. I keep hoping it will fail so I can justify a good one but it just hasn t happened.

- ArtMann

Same here. For what I do the little HF works great.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View Lazyman's profile (online now)

Lazyman

4225 posts in 1955 days


#5 posted 10-15-2018 03:14 PM

I bought a NuMax pin and brad nailer from Home Depot for about $50 combined about 4 years go after reading a couple of reviews (can’t remember where) that said they were a great value. I don’t use them a lot but they continue to work flawlessly.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

911 posts in 1670 days


#6 posted 10-15-2018 03:30 PM

As suggested above, it depends on how you plan to use it. If you are going to use it a lot every day, then buy a good quality name or recommended brand. Conversely, with little use, you can probably get by with a cheaper model. I bought a relatively inexpensive one for a “one time” job. It did its job and I may only rarely use it again.

View Rich's profile

Rich

5018 posts in 1157 days


#7 posted 10-15-2018 03:56 PM

Here’s a recent thread on the subject. My response is post #1.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/287889

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View squazo's profile

squazo

140 posts in 2213 days


#8 posted 10-15-2018 05:34 PM

i have a kobalt brand from lowes, I got it because it could shoot the longest pins up to 1.5 and down to a .25 inch pin.
it works perfectly fine I think it was 50 bucks.

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

6017 posts in 3381 days


#9 posted 10-15-2018 05:55 PM

I have used Max and PC brand pinners. The manufacturers of high-end micro pinners want us to think we must have a 2” fastener length. I have found that longer 23 gauge pins tend to deflect in hardwood. This is especially true in rift sawn wood, or with changing grain direction. The pin will want to follow the grain, and will pop out the side, or generally not go where you want it to.

I say 1-3/8” is plenty for pin nailers. If you need a longer fastener, use an 18 gauge nailer.
My Max nailer broke where it won’t set the pins very well anymore. The PC is newer, but still going strong.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View JRsgarage's profile

JRsgarage

367 posts in 1077 days


#10 posted 10-15-2018 06:12 PM

I bought a Freeman 18g and a 23g kit from HD on sale that has worked surprisingly well. It was really cheap at the time…IIRC just few dollars more than the rebuild kit for my PC

-- “Facts don't care about your feelings.” ..., Ben Shapiro

View Yamama's profile

Yamama

2 posts in 3672 days


#11 posted 10-15-2018 06:19 PM

I have the Porter Cable Pin138 nailer. Bought it on Amazon. Doesn’t make sense in spending more money than that.

View RobHannon's profile

RobHannon

323 posts in 1098 days


#12 posted 10-15-2018 06:31 PM

I too went the HF route to see if I really had a need for a pin nailer. Turns out it is pretty useful but the cheap one doesn’t seem to be lacking anything I want.

View BlasterStumps's profile

BlasterStumps

1478 posts in 1007 days


#13 posted 10-15-2018 07:05 PM

fly2low Writes: “Some of the reviews on Amazon suggest that Grex quality may be slipping.”

I wouldn’t put a whole lot of stock in the reviews on Amazon when it comes to tools.

I have a Grex P635 and love it. Very nice quality tool. I also have a PC 18 ga. Both work very nice.

-- "I build for function first, looks second. Most times I never get around to looks." - Mike, western Colorado

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YesHaveSome

165 posts in 826 days


#14 posted 10-15-2018 08:00 PM

I picked up a 23 and 18 Ridgid combo from HD for about $120 a few months ago. I really like both of them so far.

-- But where does the meat go?

View Jared_S's profile

Jared_S

253 posts in 527 days


#15 posted 10-16-2018 01:32 AM



I am looking to buy a 23 g headless pinner. Considering Grex, Senco, Cadex. I did a search here and referenced threads are all old. Some of the reviews on Amazon suggest that Grex quality may be slipping.
TIA for any responses

- fly2low

I was between the grex, Senco and Cadex myself. The reviews were all over the place and I somehow ended up with a hitachi. No complaints. Still trying to figure out what 21 gauge to get myself.

View SignWave's profile

SignWave

472 posts in 3603 days


#16 posted 10-16-2018 01:42 AM

I agree that the 23ga pin nailer is on the list of good products from HF. I’ve had mine a couple years and it continues to work flawlessly. I can’t say this about the 18ga, unfortunately.

-- Barry, http://BarrysWorkshop.com/

View Jared_S's profile

Jared_S

253 posts in 527 days


#17 posted 10-16-2018 01:47 AM

The harbor freight 23g does not set pins below flush and can leave them proud. That may or may not be a issue to people, but it was unacceptable to me.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2545 posts in 3512 days


#18 posted 10-16-2018 04:02 AM

Year ten or so with a Max USA NF235A 23 Gauge Pinner and I’d replace it in a heartbeat. I paid over three, but they are down to around two now.

View Bill_Steele's profile

Bill_Steele

606 posts in 2299 days


#19 posted 10-16-2018 07:30 PM

I bought a Grex P635 back in August and have no complaints. I don’t have an older version of the tool to compare—but the quality of this one is very good.

Sometimes I wonder about those reviews. How many people that are satisfied with a purchase go online to Amazon and post a review? I would think that consumers that are not completely happy with the purchase would be more motivated to post a review.

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them700project

179 posts in 1586 days


#20 posted 10-16-2018 08:45 PM

I have the grex 650lx which i guess has since been replaced by the 650lxe. I think i wasted my money. I dont use it and when I do, I never use 2” pins. That being said I like tools so I went with what I thought was the best at the time. It is Nice to have when I need it but you could probably spend 1/4 of what I did and put the rest towards wood

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1537 posts in 2204 days


#21 posted 10-16-2018 09:31 PM


The harbor freight 23g does not set pins below flush and can leave them proud. That may or may not be a issue to people, but it was unacceptable to me.

- Jared_S

I haven’t noticed mine doing that. I will have to keep an eye open for that issue.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View Rick  Dennington's profile (online now)

Rick Dennington

6785 posts in 3762 days


#22 posted 10-16-2018 11:13 PM

My Porter Cable pinner sets the pin heads below the surface nearly a 1/64th”....I’ve never used anything longer than a 3/4 to 1 1/4”......My go-to pins are the 1” most of the time…Filling the holes with a tiny dab of wood putty, and they disappear…...!!

-- " There's a better way.....find it"...... Thomas Edison.

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runswithscissors

3081 posts in 2593 days


#23 posted 10-16-2018 11:37 PM

I like the 18 volt Ryobi stapler and brad nailer so well that I bought the 23 g. pin nailer. Yes, it’s heavy, but the luxury of not having to fire up the compressor and drag the hose around makes it a worthwhile trade off for me. Yes, I realize there are disadvantages to this setup, so there’s no need to remind me of them. Thanks anyhow.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3889 days


#24 posted 10-17-2018 12:07 AM

I have both Grex and Omer and the main difference between the cheaper and “premium” pinners (Omer, Grex and Cadex) is they leave smaller hammer marks in the wood along with being able to get ones that shoot longer pins. The increased hammer marks are more pronounced with the brad nailers but you can see it with the 23 and 21ga pins if you compare them. If I was buying tomorrow it would be a Grex, Cadex or Omer.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1388 posts in 2520 days


#25 posted 10-17-2018 12:27 AM

Bostich here, and it works great.

I am curious about the necessity (usefulness) of the really long pins. I don’t put a whole lot of faith on a pin to hold two pieces of wood in alignment (or in a structural joint) past the cure time of the glue that is supposed to hold them in place. Pintodeluxe also noted this.

I love my pin nailer, but I use it as a tool to hold pieces in place while the glue cures, or for securing small trim around windows and such. I would guess that about 1/2” of pin embedded in each half of the mated pieces should suffice to keep the whole thing from going astray. If you are needing a 2” pin to traverse the 1 1/2” of molding before anchoring in the frame then you have the wrong tool in your hand. Just my opinion. Your results may vary.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1388 posts in 2520 days


#26 posted 10-17-2018 12:35 AM

Oh, just to add to another thought.

Yes!!!! Pins follow the grain of the wood far, far more than any other type of fastener. The quickest way to learn this is to simply hold a joint in place with your left hand while using the pin nailer in your right hand to secure it in place. When the vagaries if the grain intervene in your plans the pin may well drift and exit the piece and embed in your finger. Very, very, deep!

Do NOT ask me how I know this.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2545 posts in 3512 days


#27 posted 10-17-2018 02:45 AM

I use 1-1/2 often, to get through a 1” piece of wood to secure a 1/2” or thicker piece. I’m glad my pin nailer has that capacity, or I’d have to switch to the eighteen or sixteen then pull out the trowel to fill the holes.

Yes, I’ve suffered the wandering pin many times, but it’s still worth it.

On that last note, if someone thinks a 1-1/2” or 2” pin won’t hold something, try pulling one out when 1/4” or 1/2” is showing, such as when you fell asleep at the wheel and positioned a piece wrong.


Bostich here, and it works great.

I am curious about the necessity (usefulness) of the really long pins. I don’t put a whole lot of faith on a pin to hold two pieces of wood in alignment (or in a structural joint) past the cure time of the glue that is supposed to hold them in place. Pintodeluxe also noted this.

I love my pin nailer, but I use it as a tool to hold pieces in place while the glue cures, or for securing small trim around windows and such. I would guess that about 1/2” of pin embedded in each half of the mated pieces should suffice to keep the whole thing from going astray. If you are needing a 2” pin to traverse the 1 1/2” of molding before anchoring in the frame then you have the wrong tool in your hand. Just my opinion. Your results may vary.

- Kazooman


View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2545 posts in 3512 days


#28 posted 10-17-2018 02:46 AM

Never minded well – HOW do you know this? ;)


Oh, just to add to another thought.

Yes!!!! Pins follow the grain of the wood far, far more than any other type of fastener. The quickest way to learn this is to simply hold a joint in place with your left hand while using the pin nailer in your right hand to secure it in place. When the vagaries if the grain intervene in your plans the pin may well drift and exit the piece and embed in your finger. Very, very, deep!

Do NOT ask me how I know this.

- Kazooman


View Rich's profile

Rich

5018 posts in 1157 days


#29 posted 10-17-2018 04:12 AM

One of the first prime bits of info I got from LJ was regarding pin nails. I’d had situations where the pin even exited through the same surface I shot it in to.

It was explained (I don’t recall by whom) that it’s the geometry of the pin that matters. Since the pins are sharpened to a wedge point parallel to the strip of pins, they will be prone to deflect in a left or right direction relative to the gun.

By shooting the pin perpendicular to the grain, they are less likely to deflect sideways, compared to shooting parallel where the wood fibers are more likely to send it right or left.

I took this advice to heart and have not had issues since.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2545 posts in 3512 days


#30 posted 10-17-2018 04:33 PM

Yep. What Rich said – if you shoot a pin and it exits the wood where it shouldn’t, turn the gun ninety degrees left or right.

View fly2low's profile

fly2low

88 posts in 664 days


#31 posted 10-17-2018 06:04 PM

Thanks guys. This has been very helpful. Learned of a couple quality brands I was not aware of – Max and Omer. Now I am trying to track down country of origin. This can be a difficult. I try to by Made in USA if possible

-- Rich Gig Harbor, WA

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3889 days


#32 posted 10-18-2018 03:59 AM



Thanks guys. This has been very helpful. Learned of a couple quality brands I was not aware of – Max and Omer. Now I am trying to track down country of origin. This can be a difficult. I try to by Made in USA if possible

- fly2low

Omer is made in Italy, Max is either made in Japan or Thailand depending on the model unless things have changed recently. I am not aware of a made in the US pinner but they may exist.

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

836 posts in 478 days


#33 posted 10-18-2018 04:47 AM

I seldom use pin nailers. But I do have in my arsenal if needed. a Master Force 208-5003, 23 gauge pin nailer. works nice and easily adjustable. I also have a Hitachi 18 gauge, two types Bostich 18 gauge, and a Bostitch 16 gauge. Bostich brand might be your least expensive, but been reliable. In my woodworking I do everything possible to not use pins, staples, nails, or screws.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2545 posts in 3512 days


#34 posted 10-18-2018 05:07 AM

The quality of Max impress me when I broke my rule and let a dip borrow my siding nailer. He ran oversized nails through it and whined, because it jammed a couple times, shooting about five coils. That it pushed them through and is still running smooth a couple years later says much.

View fly2low's profile

fly2low

88 posts in 664 days


#35 posted 10-18-2018 07:57 AM

I believe Senco is made in the US. I don’t think any of the others (and for sure none of the HF) are made here

-- Rich Gig Harbor, WA

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1420 posts in 2603 days


#36 posted 10-18-2018 10:22 AM

I’ve used the PC, Hitachi, Grex, Fasco, and Senco 23 gauge pinners. Of them all, I’d take the Grex (Fasco) and Senco 23 gauge pinners above the rest, hands down. (The Fasco is made by the same company as the Grex, just a different paint color).
The PC wouldn’t set pins in the harder woods like Hickory. The Hitachi piston is designed poorly such that it will actually break apart.
The Grex and Senco (commercial grade – NOT the big box store grade) are nearly bullet proof. If you use these things every single day, you’ll need that quality.
I bought the Grex P635 (and up) from The Fastener Company out on the west coast, and the Senco (the red one) from BRM Nails in the Carolinas. Both companies give excellent service.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View Rich's profile

Rich

5018 posts in 1157 days


#37 posted 10-18-2018 01:13 PM


The Hitachi piston is designed poorly such that it will actually break apart.

- Underdog

Blanket statements like this are irresponsible without something to back them up. I have the Hitachi, have shot in the thousands of pins with it and it’s still going strong. Additionally, I’ve shot 1-3/8” pins into woods like ipe and mesquite, both extremely hard, without any problems.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View ShaneA's profile

ShaneA

7084 posts in 3166 days


#38 posted 10-18-2018 04:55 PM

My Hitachi works well too. No issues here.

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3889 days


#39 posted 10-18-2018 10:13 PM


I believe Senco is made in the US. I don t think any of the others (and for sure none of the HF) are made here

- fly2low

I don’t think any Senco pinners are made in the US, but I could be wrong. The Senco pinners I have seen sold recently are Taiwanese.

ETA Cadex is also from Taiwan

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3889 days


#40 posted 10-18-2018 10:16 PM

Double post

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1420 posts in 2603 days


#41 posted 10-18-2018 10:33 PM


Blanket statements like this are irresponsible without something to back them up. I have the Hitachi, have shot in the thousands of pins with it and it s still going strong. Additionally, I ve shot 1-3/8” pins into woods like ipe and mesquite, both extremely hard, without any problems.

- Rich

Glad you have had good luck with yours.

My experience as the guy who repaired all the nailers for the shop I worked for, was that the piston came apart and I had to replace it. When I inspected it, that piston was very thin in cross section where the ring went around it. And the hollow in the top of the piston made it even more thin. I would not be at all surprised if they have redesigned it.

Here’s a closeup of the design. Tell me that thin cross section wouldn’t be prone to breakage.In my experience and opinion, it is. Your mileage may vary. For my money, I’ll get the Senco or the Grex.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2237 posts in 1171 days


#42 posted 10-18-2018 10:50 PM

Sorry but I bought a Harbor Freight model 4 years ago and it has never missed a beat.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

528 posts in 746 days


#43 posted 10-19-2018 03:13 AM



Sorry but I bought a Harbor Freight model 4 years ago and it has never missed a beat.

- Andybb

And here is the problem with people talking about a single tool from China. One might be good. The next not so much. There are a lot of factories over there that are awful and will change sh!t on a whim and not tell a soul. They will use the wrong plastic, steel, glue, etc, and think nothing of it. Sometimes it doesn’t matter. Others you get situations like this one above.

I bought a pinner from HF and it couldn’t drive a 1” pin into pine. No joke.

Not knocking HF either. I own a sprayer from there. Pretty happy with it.

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1420 posts in 2603 days


#44 posted 10-19-2018 10:13 AM

The other thing about HF and big box store grade of tools is that if you’re only using it on weekends, that’s one thing. A lot of those tools are hobbyist and homeowner grade tools (even the Senco brands). So they’re usually going to be ok for that.
But if you’re using a tool every single day to make a living that’s another thing altogether. And you don’t want to be dinking around with something that’s going to leave you dead in the water on a jobsite….
At least I don’t.
Time is money.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View fly2low's profile

fly2low

88 posts in 664 days


#45 posted 10-19-2018 06:05 PM

I checked with Senco. Made in Taiwan
And this is why I personally will not shop at HF. As we pay more attention to price over quality, manufacturers have no choice but to move production out of the country, resulting in a loss of decent paying jobs and a loss of related skill sets. Very unfortunate

-- Rich Gig Harbor, WA

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2237 posts in 1171 days


#46 posted 10-22-2018 03:18 AM


The other thing about HF and big box store grade of tools is that if you re only using it on weekends, that s one thing. A lot of those tools are hobbyist and homeowner grade tools (even the Senco brands). So they re usually going to be ok for that.
But if you re using a tool every single day to make a living that s another thing altogether. And you don t want to be dinking around with something that s going to leave you dead in the water on a jobsite….
At least I don t.
Time is money.

- Underdog

I have lots of stuff from HF but would not use 90% of it on a jobsite. But my weekend warrior HF pinner is still going strong after 5 yrs.

Lots of stuff that is made or assembled in China is well made. You get what you pay for and weigh the choices.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

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