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View Andrew714's profile

32mm cabinetry system

by Andrew714
posted 10-08-2018 05:53 PM


23 replies so far

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

1423 posts in 1293 days


#1 posted 10-08-2018 05:59 PM

Your customers won’t care what equipment you will be using. If they want cabinets at some arbitrary height and width, you better be prepared to build them that way, regardless of your preferences.

View Andrew714's profile

Andrew714

53 posts in 1752 days


#2 posted 10-08-2018 06:03 PM



Your customers won t care what equipment you will be using. If they want cabinets at some arbitrary height and width, you better be prepared to build them that way, regardless of your preferences.

- ArtMann


I definitely get that part of it, which is why I want to get an idea for what is normally done. For example, if the 32mm system could be useful for a specific scope of cabinetry, but can be limiting overall, maybe I just abandon that.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5513 posts in 2828 days


#3 posted 10-08-2018 06:48 PM

Get a hold of a reference book, where you can get the standards for cabinetry. A lot of this stuff has been worked out, no sense re-inventing the wheel. Here is one I recommend, The Complete Kitchen Cabinetmaker, by Robert Lang. In he covers both face frame and frame less cabinets. You can get it here.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

8745 posts in 3054 days


#4 posted 10-08-2018 07:03 PM

Appliances need to be considered as well. Good luck on your future endeavors.

View Andrew714's profile

Andrew714

53 posts in 1752 days


#5 posted 10-08-2018 07:05 PM



Get a hold of a reference book, where you can get the standards for cabinetry. A lot of this stuff has been worked out, no sense re-inventing the wheel. Here is one I recommend, The Complete Kitchen Cabinetmaker, by Robert Lang. In he covers both face frame and frame less cabinets. You can get it here.

- bondogaposis

I actually already have that book, thanks for the tip. It’s a good book, and has been pretty helpful.

View Andrew714's profile

Andrew714

53 posts in 1752 days


#6 posted 10-08-2018 07:09 PM



Appliances need to be considered as well. Good luck on your future endeavors.

- waho6o9

Thanks, that’s a very good point. Having the cabinets 12mm lower could be a critical mistake when it comes time to install a dishwasher. I think that settles it- I just need to build cabinets to the standards we have in the US. I’d hate to build a kitchen full of cabinets, only to find a major problem at the time of installation.

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

8745 posts in 3054 days


#7 posted 10-08-2018 07:19 PM

You’re welcome.

Story sticks are helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2fiIDapLOU&t=25s

Bob Rozaieski Fine Woodworking
Published on Jan 29, 2014

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/255481

View jerkylips's profile

jerkylips

495 posts in 3047 days


#8 posted 10-08-2018 08:10 PM

one other thought – lower cabinets should be pretty standard (although when we built our house, they gave us the option to do standard or “comfort height” lowers in the bathrooms – about 2” taller), but uppers are going to vary based on ceiling heights. I don’t think there’s any such thing as a standard height anymore..

View Pompeio's profile

Pompeio

9 posts in 667 days


#9 posted 10-08-2018 08:51 PM

Wall cabinet height 960 mm
Base cabinet height 768 mm
You need to ensure that the mm are exactly divisible by 32 or you will have problems using the LR32.
Easier if you make the toe kick separate.

View Andrew714's profile

Andrew714

53 posts in 1752 days


#10 posted 10-08-2018 08:58 PM



Wall cabinet height 960 mm
Base cabinet height 768 mm
You need to ensure that the mm are exactly divisible by 32 or you will have problems using the LR32.
Easier if you make the toe kick separate.

- Pompeio

What is normally done for a separate toe kick? Is that normally the add-on legs, whether they are hidden or visible, or do people sometimes make some sort of riser out of plywood, inexpensive lumber, etc?

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Pompeio

9 posts in 667 days


#11 posted 10-08-2018 09:26 PM

Consider 3/4” plywood 4” wide and rip to the desired length <——width=”true”> plywood and then just cover the face with plywood.

Then crosscut the

View Rich's profile

Rich

4799 posts in 1066 days


#12 posted 10-08-2018 11:11 PM


Easier if you make the toe kick separate.

- Pompeio

What is normally done for a separate toe kick? Is that normally the add-on legs, whether they are hidden or visible, or do people sometimes make some sort of riser out of plywood, inexpensive lumber, etc?

- Andrew714

A separate toe kick will make a big difference if you’re using 60×60 baltic birch since you can get four 30” tall side panels out of a sheet and still have a 34” tall cabinet before the top. An integral toe kick will make panels too tall for that.

-- There's no such thing as a careless electrician

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

8745 posts in 3054 days


#13 posted 10-08-2018 11:23 PM

Joel Ketner has a 32mm system that may be helpful.

http://www.cabsystems.com/KISSII/KIIrivDe-mail.pdf

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

3060 posts in 2502 days


#14 posted 10-09-2018 12:02 AM

Actually, the wheel has been reinvented many times. That’s why you can get tubeless tires that last 60k or more on mag wheels. If not so, we’d still be using sawed off log ends for wheels.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5513 posts in 2828 days


#15 posted 10-09-2018 06:31 PM

Actually, the wheel has been reinvented many times.

So true, but unless he uses standard cabinet dimensions to accommodate appliances he is going to have to reinvent the dishwasher.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View Andrew714's profile

Andrew714

53 posts in 1752 days


#16 posted 10-09-2018 06:47 PM



Actually, the wheel has been reinvented many times.

So true, but unless he uses standard cabinet dimensions to accommodate appliances he is going to have to reinvent the dishwasher.

- bondogaposis

Yea, I’d rather not have to do that! My ‘reinvented’ dishwasher would probably be pretty useless. lol

View Pompeio's profile

Pompeio

9 posts in 667 days


#17 posted 10-09-2018 10:41 PM

I must apologize regarding my post yesterday (10-08-2018) as what I typed and what is shown were not the same.

My post should have read:

Consider 3/4” plywood 4” wide and rip to the desired length.
You can, in the alternative, use 2×4’s for the cabinet support and then use 3/4” plywood to cover the toe kick’s face.

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1376 days


#18 posted 10-09-2018 11:17 PM

Unless you’re going to manufacture standard size boxes for everything there is no need to use the 32mm system.

That being said, you can adopt parts of the system to the cabinets you build.
Such as setting your shelf holes back 37mm so that you can utilize them for hinges, and guides.
Where you start your holes makes a difference on your reveals for the doors so there are lessons to learn there.

You can check out the KissII system that waho6o9 mentioned. You can still standardize a lot of the build.

I’ve built hundreds of boxes, I mount the doors with jigs and don’t use the shelf holes. I mount the drawer guides with jigs and don’t use the holes for them either. Since 90% of all the boxes I build are different, I don’t bother with the 32mm system other than my shelf hole boring machine drills shelf holes 32mm apart. I don’t always want holes at the very bottom or tops of the cabinets.

So much more on the subject that you just can’t relay here in the forum. Best bet is just to learn about as much about it as you can, and then adapt your methods to fit what you want to do.

View Desert_Woodworker's profile

Desert_Woodworker

1866 posts in 1691 days


#19 posted 10-09-2018 11:30 PM

Easier if you make the toe kick separate.

- Pompeio

What is normally done for a separate toe kick? Is that normally the add-on legs, whether they are hidden or visible, or do people sometimes make some sort of riser out of plywood, inexpensive lumber, etc?

- Andrew714

A separate toe kick will make a big difference if you re using 60×60 baltic birch since you can get four 30” tall side panels out of a sheet and still have a 34” tall cabinet before the top. An integral toe kick will make panels too tall for that.

- Rich

+1 I use the plastic legs . The main selling point, should there be water damage, only up to a few inches, then you only have to replace the toe kick. Also, the open space can be used to “fish” plumbing or electrical underneath.
The book that got me started was from Danny Proulx circa the late eighties
Build Your Own Kitchen Cabinets Aug 01, 2003
by Danny Proulx
Paperback

No panel saw or CNC back then, now to stay in business…

-- Desert_Woodworker

View Desert_Woodworker's profile

Desert_Woodworker

1866 posts in 1691 days


#20 posted 10-09-2018 11:48 PM



Unless you re going to manufacture standard size boxes for everything there is no need to use the 32mm system.

That being said, you can adopt parts of the system to the cabinets you build.
Such as setting your shelf holes back 37mm so that you can utilize them for hinges, and guides.
Where you start your holes makes a difference on your reveals for the doors so there are lessons to learn there.

You can check out the KissII system that waho6o9 mentioned. You can still standardize a lot of the build.

I ve built hundreds of boxes, I mount the doors with jigs and don t use the shelf holes. I mount the drawer guides with jigs and don t use the holes for them either. Since 90% of all the boxes I build are different, I don t bother with the 32mm system other than my shelf hole boring machine drills shelf holes 32mm apart. I don t always want holes at the very bottom or tops of the cabinets.

So much more on the subject that you just can t relay here in the forum. Best bet is just to learn about as much about it as you can, and then adapt your methods to fit what you want to do.

- jbay

jbay- great advice- To survive in a small independent environment, I concur with using both english and metric, because of your advice and my very similar methods- it works.
“Best bet is just to learn about as much about it as you can, and then adapt your methods to fit what you want to do.” jbay

-- Desert_Woodworker

View Andrew714's profile

Andrew714

53 posts in 1752 days


#21 posted 10-10-2018 01:43 PM


I ve built hundreds of boxes, I mount the doors with jigs and don t use the shelf holes. I mount the drawer guides with jigs and don t use the holes for them either. Since 90% of all the boxes I build are different, I don t bother with the 32mm system other than my shelf hole boring machine drills shelf holes 32mm apart. I don t always want holes at the very bottom or tops of the cabinets.

- jbay

Thanks jbay, a lot of good advice, and that’s kind-of the route I am leaning towards. Yea, I could design everything to fit within the 32mm system, but the more I look at it, the more it seems like it’ll be limiting in some ways. I’m planning on using Blum hinges and drawer slides, and they make some affordable drilling jigs that look like they would be quicker, easier, and more flexibility than the Festool solution.

+1 I use the plastic legs . The main selling point, should there be water damage, only up to a few inches, then you only have to replace the toe kick. Also, the open space can be used to “fish” plumbing or electrical underneath.

- Desert_Woodworker

Thanks, that’s a couple good points too, though I would tend to lean towards metal legs. All depends on what’s available and what works best, I guess.

View BobLang's profile

BobLang

172 posts in 3877 days


#22 posted 10-10-2018 02:35 PM

Chiming in to reinforce the idea of using the parts of the 32mm system that relate to mounting the hardware and stick with standard sizes and construction methods. A small custom shop is in a different world than a full-blown automated production shop.

A separate base to set the cabinets on, or a ledger on the wall and adjustable feet at the front will make installation much easier than integral bases in each cabinet.

Thanks for the earlier mention of my book The Complete Kitchen Cabinetmaker. It discusses making choices between traditional face frame cabinets and European cabinets, so you can develop a method that works for you.

-- Bob Lang, https://readwatchdo.com

View PPK's profile

PPK

1501 posts in 1286 days


#23 posted 10-10-2018 09:14 PM

I know you didn’t solicit this type of advise, but be sure to grow your knowledge of CYA and sound business practices along with your woodworking skills. It doesn’t take too many jobs gone South (monetarily) to put one out of business and leave you completely discouraged.

I’m meaning to make sure to create complete quotes/bids/contracts, make sure all changes are in writing and signed, be sure to not work on unapproved changes, don’t cut your prices in order to “get work”, etc etc… Make sure you have insurance…

-- Pete

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