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34-461 Unisaw

by firefighterontheside
posted 10-01-2018 01:05 AM


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58 replies

58 replies so far

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#1 posted 10-01-2018 01:13 AM

Depends on your skill level, but generally it’s not that difficult. I’m not familiar with the Unisaw motor, but the capacitor should be mounted to the top of the motor and would be under a separate cover. The only question would be how do they know it’s only the capacitor?

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#2 posted 10-01-2018 01:46 AM

Yes, that’s a good question.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

6683 posts in 3731 days


#3 posted 10-01-2018 02:29 AM

Bill,

The start capacitor should have a dome-shaped cover with 2-3 screws holding it down…Remove the cover, and check to see if it’s burned, blown, or possibly “swelled up” caused from blowing….If it is just remove it, take it to town to an electric co. or an electrician for a replacement…Also, remember which wires go on which terminals…Most have four…It may not make any difference, but if it’s the capacitor, mark the terminals with a red Marks- a lot….

-- " The secret to staying young looking.....hang around old people.." R.D.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#4 posted 10-01-2018 02:44 AM

Thanks Rick. I’ll open it up on Wednesday after work.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

6683 posts in 3731 days


#5 posted 10-01-2018 02:47 AM

Bill,

If all it is is a blown capacitor, that’ll be an easy fix…..Let’s just hope that’s all it is….!! Good luck..!

-- " The secret to staying young looking.....hang around old people.." R.D.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2023 days


#6 posted 10-01-2018 04:43 AM

It could be the centrifugal switch as well. Same symptoms as a bad starting cap but most times it’s a lot easier for most to spend 5-10$ to avoid cracking the motor open.

Huge fan of new bearings for used equipment. Don’t cost much and can up the value of equipment to be resold. It’s a bargaining chip that’s worked in my favor many a times.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View boxcarmarty's profile

boxcarmarty

17215 posts in 2897 days


#7 posted 10-01-2018 12:38 PM

Bill, what makes you think it is the start capacitor that is bad???

-- My mind is like lighting, one brilliant flash, then its gone.....

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artsyfartsy

1267 posts in 1695 days


#8 posted 10-01-2018 12:57 PM

Before you take it apart and remove the wires, take a photo with you phone. I do that all the time when I’m repairing things so I can remember which wire went where it’s supposed to go when I’m replacing.

-- DWelch. Michigan, The only dumb question is the one not asked!

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#9 posted 10-01-2018 01:02 PM



Bill, what makes you think it is the start capacitor that is bad???

- boxcarmarty

The guy told me when I bought it that the start cap was bad. I’m sure he could be wrong. I can change several cheap parts and hope something fixes it. I’ll get a better look on Wednesday.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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boxcarmarty

17215 posts in 2897 days


#10 posted 10-01-2018 01:07 PM


Bill, what makes you think it is the start capacitor that is bad???

- boxcarmarty

The guy told me when I bought it that the start cap was bad. I’m sure he could be wrong. I can change several cheap parts and hope something fixes it. I’ll get a better look on Wednesday.

- firefighterontheside


I have seen the switch go out on the Unisaws on more then one occasion…..

-- My mind is like lighting, one brilliant flash, then its gone.....

View DDWW's profile

DDWW

113 posts in 1163 days


#11 posted 10-01-2018 06:03 PM

How did this work out for you? The cap is an easy fix,

if its the Magnetic start switch thats pricey. It can be DIY. The electronic parts are third party exact replacements may not be manufactured. If you understand what your buying you can buy components on Amazon and Ebay and rebuild the starter.

The cheap way to do it is to use a Grizzly magnetic starter. they have several choose the one for the amps your motor draws.

My unisaw doesn’t like to work below 45 degrees and occasionally I have to whack the starter box to shake saw dust off the relay.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#12 posted 10-01-2018 08:06 PM

After looking at it closer, the original switch has been removed and a “light switch, was wired into the cord in a junction box. Perhaps it is just the switch. I will open up the capacitor and take a look at it.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#13 posted 10-01-2018 11:42 PM

BTW, does it start at all?

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#14 posted 10-01-2018 11:45 PM

I haven’t had any time to try it. I loaded this stuff into my garage last night and then went inside to get my sons ready for bed. Now I’m at work until Wednesday morning. I’ll look at it on Wednesday.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#15 posted 10-03-2018 04:44 PM

I’m afraid this Unisaw is gonna be the loser of the bunch of tools I bought. The motor is not original to the saw and it appears to be rigged to work. There is a homemade guard built around the start capacitor. It is 3 hp and says it can run on 110 or 220 and 32 or 16 amps respectively. I can’t plug it in unless I make an extension cord to run into the shop.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7502 posts in 2736 days


#16 posted 10-03-2018 08:03 PM

That motor is a right tilt Unisaw specific model and has the proper badging, so it certainly could be original. The capacitor cover could have just went missing sometime in the past, and a replacement was improvised by a PO. While you are waiting to get power, you can test the capacitor in place with a cheap multimeter (in resistance mode) to see if it is indeed bad. What year is your Unisaw?

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#17 posted 10-03-2018 08:23 PM

I was hoping you would weigh in Brad. I’m not sure of year. Where can I find that? Also I’ve discovered that the large switch panel box was eliminated and a regular light switch was wired into the cord. I will post a pic of that box soon. I’m unfamiliar with what’s inside it. There is a relay in there for sure.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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MrUnix

7502 posts in 2736 days


#18 posted 10-03-2018 08:53 PM

I’m not sure of year. Where can I find that?

You can date it from the serial number.

Anyway, that motor was offered for the 34-461 Unisaw in at least the 1972 catalog I have, so I’d be willing to bet it is original. The wiring does sound like it’s been played with by a P.O., but seems like you still have the starter (aka: LVC) box and you just need a proper NO/NC control station switch. Maybe… Pictures will help for sure :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#19 posted 10-03-2018 09:18 PM

Here’s the box opened up. The inside of lid has some wiring diagrams.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#20 posted 10-03-2018 09:32 PM

Serial number.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#21 posted 10-03-2018 10:16 PM

So is this the box that they jury rigged onto the saw?

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#22 posted 10-03-2018 11:57 PM

No, this is an actual switch box that should be attached to the saw. The jury rig is a metal junction box with a light switch in it with the cord coming out of it at both ends.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#23 posted 10-04-2018 01:39 AM

Well, I was going to congratulate him on a great job, but this makes more sense as it seemed to be a standard starter for an electric motor. Not many DIY starters look that clean.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#24 posted 10-04-2018 01:50 AM

Nope, no congratulations are in order. What I need to know is what’s in the box. Is this the start capacitor?

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7502 posts in 2736 days


#25 posted 10-04-2018 02:12 AM

Can’t really be specific based on that picture, but it appears to be a very simple magnetic starter. Your serial number indicates yours is a 1975 model, and those typically came with what is known as a LVC starter (low voltage control). The big transformer should be a step down transformer to 24v, and the contactor (relay) will have a 24v control winding. After main power gets through the contactor, it will go into an overload protection device which is typically a resistive heater or circuit breaker type sized for the motor being used. How it gets hooked up should be shown in the wiring diagrams you indicate were inside the cover. The start capacitor is not in that box – it should be on the motor itself.

Now – the real question is WHY it’s wired like it is. Normally, people don’t do goofy stuff like that just on a whim. So, something most likely stopped working and the light switch was a quick and dirty fix to get it back up and running – although it’s a really poor solution and should be addressed after you verify you can get it to run.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#26 posted 10-04-2018 02:16 AM

Thanks Brad. I will open up the start capacitor tomorrow hopefully and look at it and then try the test you mentioned earlier. My goal is to sell the thing, but I prefer to sell it in a safe working state.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#27 posted 10-04-2018 02:24 AM



Nope, no congratulations are in order. What I need to know is what’s in the box. Is this the start capacitor?

- firefighterontheside

The capacitor would be a big round cylinder.

It’s a starter, and Brad has explained it as better than I could have as I haven’t dealt with these things for years. However, I did do a bit of research and found the Delta starter manual.

http://www.deltamachineryparts.com/documents/instruction_manuals/438016550002.pdf

Just treat this as an FYI as I can’t see any reason to mess with it at the moment.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#28 posted 10-04-2018 03:32 AM

Thanks. I’ll look at it tomorrow. Gotta do some milling in the morn, but in the afternoon I’ll look at the Unisaw.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#29 posted 10-20-2018 01:42 AM

I took the motor to a shop and basically there was nothing wrong with it. They tightened a few wires and cleaned it up. I put it back in the saw and put a new switch on it. It runs but rattles pretty bad. Not sure what that is, but wasn’t gonna investigate it when I got it running last night at 7:30. Maybe a loose pulley. Had to get some boys ready for bed.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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WoodenDreams

796 posts in 448 days


#30 posted 10-20-2018 01:46 AM

I’d check the brushes also, If the brushes are easy to get to.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2023 days


#31 posted 10-20-2018 01:49 AM

Not a bad idea (pssst: sorry bud, they don’t have brushes)

It rattles as in a mechanical rattling or the starter itself rattling or chattering?

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#32 posted 10-20-2018 01:52 AM

Good to hear it’s basically working. Is the rattle in the motor itself, or is it just when it’s in the saw?

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#33 posted 10-20-2018 02:02 AM

I would say the rattle is in the saw and not the motor. The shop told me the motor ran smooth and the bearings were good. Definitely a mechanical rattle. I will say that the belts had a memory from sitting without being used for a long time.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2023 days


#34 posted 10-20-2018 02:07 AM

Doesn’t help any. I had to lever my motor tight enough to because the belts were flopping around.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#35 posted 10-20-2018 02:21 AM



Doesn’t help any. I had to lever my motor tight enough to because the belts were flopping around.

- TheFridge

It certainly sounds like something to do with the belts.

Seems like you’re going to have to do a little trouble shooting. First thing I’d do is remove the belt and see if the rattle is still there.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#36 posted 10-20-2018 11:45 AM

That may be it. I didn’t really tighten the belts. I just let gravity do it’s thing and assumed that would be good. It has 3 belts. Thanks fellas.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7502 posts in 2736 days


#37 posted 10-20-2018 05:43 PM

Best way to set the belt tension is with the machine running IMO. That way you can see when they take on that ‘oval’ shape around the pulleys and the vibration disappears. They need a lot less tension than most people realize, and too much will actually make it worse.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#38 posted 10-20-2018 07:38 PM

So leave the bolt that holds the tension loose, turn on saw and then pull down on motor while saw is running. That sounds a little scary, but I’m game.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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MrUnix

7502 posts in 2736 days


#39 posted 10-20-2018 07:46 PM

Simple way:

Raise the blade all the way up as far as it will go (which also raises the motor).
Get a piece of 2×4 or similar that will fit between the motor and floor to hold up the motor.
(you want it about an inch or two short, so you have some adjustment room)
Lower the motor until it just rests on the 2×4
Loosen the tension adjustment bolt (just loosen, do not remove).

At this point, the motor should be resting entirely on the 2×4, and you can adjust the belt tension using the blade height handwheel.

Turn on the machine, and from the motor opening, observe the belts as you increase/decrease the blade height. Once you get that sweet spot, turn machine off, tighten the bolt, raise the blade/motor and remove the 2×4.

The weight of the motor should keep it stationary on the 2×4 and be sufficient for belt tension. You can hold it down if you think you need more tension, but I think you will be surprised at just how little tension is required (and what happens to the belts when you apply too much :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#40 posted 10-20-2018 08:57 PM

Thanks Brad. I’ll work on it tomorrow when I get home from work. That’s a great idea.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#41 posted 10-21-2018 07:07 PM

So, it seems the arbor bearing/s are bad. When I turn it by hand withoutthe belts on there is a little clunk every rotation. How do get those out and replace?

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#42 posted 10-21-2018 07:30 PM

Do you have a bearing puller and presser? If not, HF sells them pretty cheap. It’s really not hard as all you have to do is use the puller to remove the bearing then use the presser to install a new bearing. I’m linking a video that shows you step by step how to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCAL1E6TjkI

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#43 posted 10-21-2018 08:06 PM

Thanks Lunbering. I got the arbor out and one of the bearings off. I have a puller somewhere that I have to locate. I need to get a couple 6203 bearings. I found another video with a search on LJ that showed arbor replacement on a Unisaw. That was helpful. I managed to get the arbor out without removing the top. I’m gonna call Napa and see if they have the bearings. Otherwise I’m sure my old pal amazon has them.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#44 posted 10-21-2018 08:30 PM

Ordered bearings from Amazon. Those will be here Tuesday. I also noticed there is no nut on the motor end of the arbor shaft. Does that seem like a big problem?

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#45 posted 10-21-2018 09:00 PM


Ordered bearings from Amazon. Those will be here Tuesday. I also noticed there is no nut on the motor end of the arbor shaft. Does that seem like a big problem?

- firefighterontheside

I’m just looking at the parts schematic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCAL1E6TjkI

It should be there, along with a spacer and a bearing. Unless you are talking about right near the motor.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#46 posted 10-21-2018 09:08 PM

Are we seeing the same video. The video I see is for a motor. I’m working on the arbor for the saw. The end of the arbor shaft opposite the blade end is threaded and should have a nut, based on another video I watched.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#47 posted 10-21-2018 09:15 PM

Oops. I copied the wrong thing.

http://www.toolpartspro.com/delta-parts/delta-34-461-parts.html

It’s not a video, it’s the schematic for the saw.

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firefighterontheside

20629 posts in 2393 days


#48 posted 10-21-2018 09:41 PM

That’s better. I’m missing parts 9 and 10. A washer and special nut. I’ve seen a lot of special nuts in my lifetime, but I’ve never needed one before now.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 1027 days


#49 posted 10-21-2018 09:49 PM



That’s better. I’m missing parts 9 and 10. A washer and special nut. I’ve seen a lot of special nuts in my lifetime, but I’ve never needed one before now.

- firefighterontheside

I’ve worked with a lot. :(

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7502 posts in 2736 days


#50 posted 10-21-2018 09:49 PM

You don’t really need a puller or press to replace those bearings. And yes, you need that nut, as it is what secures the arbor from coming out. The washer behind it also acts as a lock, where one edge is folded up against the nut to prevent it from spinning off.

Couple of other things you may want to consider. I’d go ahead and pull the top off (it’s only 4 bolts), as it will make it so much easier to work on, particularly when you go to re-install and have to ensure the pulleys are in alignment. To make it easier to get back where it is, raise the blade and put a straight edge along side it so it hangs off the front and back of the table, then put down some masking tape and mark where the straight edge is.

And since you have things apart already, it would be a good idea to go ahead and replace the bearings in the motor. If the ones in the arbor went south, the motor bearings should not be too far behind. Easier now, rather than waiting and having to pull things apart again later.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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