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Butcher Block Install: Corner Gaps :: Help Needed

by Riggy
posted 09-27-2018 02:57 AM


24 replies so far

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WoodenDreams

587 posts in 276 days


#1 posted 09-27-2018 03:51 AM

AS you know not all walls are straight. Add a back splash. Not only does a back splash keep water & fluids away from the wall. They also hide the irregularities. A back splash for countertops are normally 1”x3”. But to follow a crooked wall, try a 1/2”x3” strip to follow the wall to hide the gaps, then add another 1/2”x3” strip in front of it for the thickness, and caulk , these will bend easier than using a 1”x3” back splash…or… You could cut and glue filler strips for the backwall and then caulk. I’d put in the back splash then put the tiles above it. If you talk to your customer, notify them that the walls not straight, I’m sure they’ll agree to use a back splash.

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jonah

2070 posts in 3663 days


#2 posted 09-27-2018 12:32 PM

You need to scribe the countertop to the wall. Yes, it’s annoying to get it out and back in, but that’s the only real solution.

After it’s scribed to the wall, install the tile backsplash. Subway tiles will be fine with an irregular wall, so long as whoever is doing the tiling knows what they’re about.

View rcs47's profile

rcs47

204 posts in 3494 days


#3 posted 09-27-2018 01:33 PM

Normally I would scribe the top. But check the front overhang on all tops before you make the decision. If you take 5/8” out of one, will it pull it back to the front of the cabinet? I would hate to go to all that work and then the drawer tops are visible.

With those wide gaps and a wood top, I would scribe filler pieces using the same material/color in 4/4 material.

Good luck

-- Doug - As my Dad taught me, you're not a cabinet maker until you can hide your mistakes.

View mahdee's profile

mahdee

4290 posts in 2132 days


#4 posted 09-27-2018 01:48 PM

I like the backsplash idea. You can mark and remove enough of the drywall at the center if needed and eliminate the gap and install the backsplash.

-- earthartandfoods.com

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Riggy

37 posts in 300 days


#5 posted 09-27-2018 02:21 PM



Normally I would scribe the top. But check the front overhang on all tops before you make the decision. If you take 5/8” out of one, will it pull it back to the front of the cabinet? I would hate to go to all that work and then the drawer tops are visible.

With those wide gaps and a wood top, I would scribe filler pieces using the same material/color in 4/4 material.

Good luck

- rcs47

This is my thoughts exactly. There’s also the concern of (even if it was a smaller piece and easily removed etc.) reciprocal loss of overhang on the front end after scribing, to me, given that there’s gaps of just under 1/2” moving all the way up to 3/4” in one spot, wouldn’t this just look bad taking away so much overhang from scribing at that point?

View DS's profile

DS

3145 posts in 2785 days


#6 posted 09-27-2018 02:35 PM

You might consider amending a scribe-able piece to the back edge of your Top if your overhang might suffer the loss from scribing.

Scribing a Counter is Woodworking 101 type of basic training stuff, IMHO.
Walls are never straight, so figuring for scribe is automatic where I am concerned.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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Riggy

37 posts in 300 days


#7 posted 09-27-2018 02:44 PM

Thanks for the help everyone. I know, scribing is the standard operating procedure here, but I’m going to get creative and fill the gap somehow, either with wood or just coverage via some type of metal strapping or tile backsplash. I really appreciate the help.

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1264 days


#8 posted 09-27-2018 02:48 PM

If you are going to tile the walls anyway, then throw up another layer of sheetrock.

What’s going on with those corner cabinets?

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1310 posts in 2317 days


#9 posted 09-27-2018 02:48 PM

A couple of additional issues. From the pictures the top appers to have several gaps at joints. How will you address them? What are your plans for the angled cabinet in the corner?

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Knockonit

545 posts in 567 days


#10 posted 09-27-2018 07:04 PM

What DS said, its a common problem in older and some newer homes, boys and gals just don’t seem to frame them straight, one only needs to add a piece to back and then scribe, sounds like a lot of work, but in the end the result will be great, and for sure unless there is upper cabinets, the tile guy is gonna loose his hair if he has any left, i’d have someone float the wall prior to tile, it will show up in anything applied to wall
best of luck
Rj in az

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Riggy

37 posts in 300 days


#11 posted 09-27-2018 08:31 PM



If you are going to tile the walls anyway, then throw up another layer of sheetrock.

What s going on with those corner cabinets?

- jbay

Which corner cabs, the sink portion or the dead corner?

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Riggy

37 posts in 300 days


#12 posted 09-27-2018 08:36 PM



A couple of additional issues. From the pictures the top appers to have several gaps at joints. How will you address them? What are your plans for the angled cabinet in the corner?

- Kazooman

Good question, glad you asked. Nothing is obviously screwed in place yet so any variances or gaps at the joints are just pre-finish assembly. At the joints I plan either to do a glue/biscuit method, miter bolts, or perhaps both. Anyone have experience with these on butcher block?

My bigger task is handling that corner area, which is for a drop-in sink. The front-face angle from the butt joint I plan to fill in with a grain matching triangle, which would fill in the front of the sink area and create stability for the two cross pieces. My issue, however, is that the sink would cut out most of the butt joint, leaving mainly a small (say 6-7”) portion in the back for connection (miter, biscuit, or otherwise), and then the front triangle as well. I can post some pics here to show you guys. Hope it’s not too crazy of a concoction.

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000

2859 posts in 1264 days


#13 posted 09-27-2018 08:48 PM


If you are going to tile the walls anyway, then throw up another layer of sheetrock.

What s going on with those corner cabinets?

- jbay

Which corner cabs, the sink portion or the dead corner?

- Riggy

It’s plural.
But, never mind.

View Riggy's profile

Riggy

37 posts in 300 days


#14 posted 09-27-2018 09:02 PM


If you are going to tile the walls anyway, then throw up another layer of sheetrock.

What s going on with those corner cabinets?

- jbay

Which corner cabs, the sink portion or the dead corner?

- Riggy

It s plural.
But, never mind.

- jbay

Yep, sorry. Far right corner is a dead corner, far left corner is kitchen sink.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5244 posts in 2674 days


#15 posted 09-28-2018 12:40 AM

I would have made a template of the counter top first thing and do most of the work in the shop.

With a wall that far out I’d scribe my template material to the back wall/walls first and then build on that. 1/4 thick strips of plywood or heavy cardboard and a hot glue gun for building the template.

This video will give you the basic idea if you’ve never made one.

https://youtu.be/WuKAT3IcDAA

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Jared_S's profile

Jared_S

175 posts in 324 days


#16 posted 09-28-2018 01:33 AM


At the joints I plan either to do a glue/biscuit method, miter bolts, or perhaps both. Anyone have experience with these on butcher block?

- Riggy

Your can’t glue it, since it’s a cross grain situation. Dominos or a blind spline would work. It’s basically a breadboard end and needs to be able to float for seasonal expansion. You can pin it in the back, or front or middle but only one.

If you have a thin back splash you may have to pin at the back of the counter and live with movement at the front and along the joint

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1310 posts in 2317 days


#17 posted 09-28-2018 08:55 AM


A couple of additional issues. From the pictures the top appers to have several gaps at joints. How will you address them? What are your plans for the angled cabinet in the corner?

- Kazooman

Good question, glad you asked. Nothing is obviously screwed in place yet so any variances or gaps at the joints are just pre-finish assembly. At the joints I plan either to do a glue/biscuit method, miter bolts, or perhaps both. Anyone have experience with these on butcher block?

My bigger task is handling that corner area, which is for a drop-in sink. The front-face angle from the butt joint I plan to fill in with a grain matching triangle, which would fill in the front of the sink area and create stability for the two cross pieces. My issue, however, is that the sink would cut out most of the butt joint, leaving mainly a small (say 6-7”) portion in the back for connection (miter, biscuit, or otherwise), and then the front triangle as well. I can post some pics here to show you guys. Hope it s not too crazy of a concoction.

- Riggy

I wasn’t referring to joints between the large pieces. I was referring to what looks like gaps in the field of the butcher block. Is the cross grain line in the last picture glue squeeze out or a gap? Similar question about picture five. What is going on with the joint at the end of one of the boards in the lower left?

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Riggy

37 posts in 300 days


#18 posted 09-30-2018 01:29 PM


At the joints I plan either to do a glue/biscuit method, miter bolts, or perhaps both. Anyone have experience with these on butcher block?

- Riggy

Your can t glue it, since it s a cross grain situation. Dominos or a blind spline would work. It s basically a breadboard end and needs to be able to float for seasonal expansion. You can pin it in the back, or front or middle but only one.

If you have a thin back splash you may have to pin at the back of the counter and live with movement at the front and along the joint

- Jared_S

This is very helpful, I appreciate it man! I’ll most likely fire out a new post on this one.

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

1797 posts in 527 days


#19 posted 09-30-2018 03:30 PM

I am with JBay 100% – address the wall issues – not the counter top

and this question is also posted on another woodworking site, so, between the two,
O/P has quite a list of options to consider.

.

.

-- Failure is proof that you at least tried ~ now, go do it again, and again, until you get it right --

View Riggy's profile

Riggy

37 posts in 300 days


#20 posted 10-01-2018 01:23 AM



I am with JBay 100% – address the wall issues – not the counter top

and this question is also posted on another woodworking site, so, between the two,
O/P has quite a list of options to consider.

.

.

- John Smith

Thanks John. I suppose with tile in the pipeline this is the best route. Looks like I’ll be busting into the sheetrock and truing up those corners!

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

1797 posts in 527 days


#21 posted 10-01-2018 03:28 AM

if there is room for another layer of drywall, I would do that vs removing what is there.
but – door and window trim can often be affected and then it becomes necessary
to gut the walls and just start over. . . and use a good framing square – that has been verified to be true.
in the end, after the dust settles, you will be more pleased with your work. (and yourself).
looking forward to your progress.

.

-- Failure is proof that you at least tried ~ now, go do it again, and again, until you get it right --

View DS's profile

DS

3145 posts in 2785 days


#22 posted 10-01-2018 02:04 PM

.

- John Smith

Or, at least get it right the second time! heheh

(Mike Holmes is the best!)

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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bmerrill

49 posts in 438 days


#23 posted 10-01-2018 02:24 PM

Last year had quartz count tops installed. The counter is “L” shaped. The installers cut out the sheet rock from the top of the cabinet to the top of the counter top on the right side section to facilitate the installation. They set the right section down and slid it back under the sheet rock. Laid the left side piece and pulled the right side piece to mate with the left side. I installed a marble backslash from the counter to the upper cabinets. You can never tell the sheet rock was cut. Counter top overhangs are all equal.

-- "Do. Or do not. There is no try". Yoda

View MJClark's profile

MJClark

35 posts in 249 days


#24 posted 10-01-2018 02:26 PM

Normally, I took would scribe, however how large are the gaps and would it cause issues on the front end with the overhand being too shallow?

Can you get a backsplash tile with a rounded trim for the bottom that will build out the needed thickness to close the gaps?

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