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View Karda's profile

advice on mounting a blank

by Karda
posted 09-23-2018 05:56 AM


1 2 next »
65 replies

65 replies so far

View mahdee's profile

mahdee

4286 posts in 2130 days


#1 posted 09-23-2018 11:44 AM

3 ways,
1- drill a small hole through it
2- put it on a piece of cardboard, mark the parameters
3- measure the distance from all 4 sides to the center

Use squares or blocks of wood beside the edges to serve as borders.

-- earthartandfoods.com

View greatview's profile

greatview

135 posts in 3520 days


#2 posted 09-23-2018 11:54 AM

Fill the crack with black tinted epoxy and the crack will become a feature.

-- Tom, New London, NH

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

660 posts in 1664 days


#3 posted 09-23-2018 01:48 PM

What mahdee said in 2-
Lay out the circle on cardboard and draw your circle and cut it out.
You can then eyeball it from the other side to mark the location for the center pin hole.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#4 posted 09-23-2018 03:47 PM

I would do it this way. Measure the length of the piece. Divide it in half, and put a mark at that dimension. Measure the width, and divide in half. Place your mark at that dimension. You should now have an X that marks the spot. Remember those dimensions. You will need them for the other side.

Turn the piece over and do the length first. Take a square and put it up against the edge of the bark. Measure from the square and use the width dimension to mark the center. If you use the same end and same edge to mark from, both marks should be at the same location even though they are on apposing sides of you blank. Get a compass and mark the diameter, cut it, and then mount it onto your lathe. It should be centered.

I would try to center the piece rather than have my round edge next to the square edge like you show in the first picture. ................. Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#5 posted 09-23-2018 09:02 PM

Thanks for the suggestions, I measured it like Jerry suggested and got a nice 7.5 ” blank. But what to do with the crack. As its cut it will hollowed out but I could have it on the bottom as well. I would normally have the cracked side on the bottom as the bottom because of the curve of the wood but is that wise now thanks Mike

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#6 posted 09-24-2018 03:18 AM

Mike, that crack, in my opinion, is not an issue. If it was as wide on the right side as it is on the left, I might have some concern, but it just doesn’t look like it would scare me.

Show a picture of the crack since you already cut it round. ............... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#7 posted 09-24-2018 06:08 AM

here are pics of the crack, it is 3/8s inch deep at the widest point

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MrUnix

7361 posts in 2562 days


#8 posted 09-24-2018 06:17 AM

I’m with Jerry – that doesn’t look like much of an issue at all. Turn it like normal, and if it’s a problem as you get close to final form, give it a good fill of epoxy.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#9 posted 09-24-2018 06:03 PM

ok i’ll turn as is, I a little new at cracks. What kind of colorant could I mix with the epoxy, black maybe

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#10 posted 09-27-2018 09:56 PM

Hi me again. I have the blank rounded and a tenon made but i can only think of a couple styles to turn I need some creative help what could I turn with this. Because of the crack it is backwards. One issue is the top curves inwards because of the live edge parts also the crack in the previous pictures does run down the side to a small knot. My plan was to put the knot on the bowl top and turn it out, could i put the crack on the bottom, I put 3 3/8s dowels through the crack on top. Here is a profile of the bowl and a pic of the side crack. Thanks Mike

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#11 posted 09-27-2018 11:07 PM

Mike, go to your post you did awhile back named “Tear Out”, and look at the pictures in reply #10. It’s a picture of a small cotton wood Ogee bowl with a foot.. What you have there is begging to be a footed Ogee bowl somewhat larger than the one I posted.

Start at the top and work your way down to the foot. You might be able to remove the crack as you’re turning.After the outside is done, do the innards. That mounted blank does not require it to be a deep bowl. If you look at the top picture, the bark line shows you what the profile could look like if you picture it on both halves.

When I first started turning back in ‘09, I didn’t like the Ogee form, but now, I find they are so easy to do and if done right, are very pleasing to the eye.

I hafta ask.. After you get to the point you are in the last 2 pictures, then pose your question on LJ’s, how long do you wait before you go back out to your lathe and start turning?? It’s a burning question I need to have an answer to….... ...... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#12 posted 09-28-2018 12:47 AM

I hafta ask.. After you get to the point you are in the last 2 pictures, then pose your question on LJ s, how long do you wait before you go back out to your lathe and start turning?? It s a burning question I need to have an answer to….... ...... Jerry (in Tucson)

sorry Jerry I don’t understand your question

I liker ogees as well I am still having a hard time getting the shape usually what I get is a flared bowl nice but not what I was aiming for. Question what is the top. the way that blank is mounted that is the top and where the crack is the other end is a tenon. Should I use the crack end for the bottom. The crack is the problem, I don’t know how to handle it, it is doweled I am also thinking of one for the side crack.

- Nubsnstubs

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#13 posted 09-28-2018 02:31 AM


I hafta ask.. After you get to the point you are in the last 2 pictures, then pose your question on LJ s, how long do you wait before you go back out to your lathe and start turning?? It s a burning question I need to have an answer to….... ...... Jerry (in Tucson)

sorry Jerry I don t understand your question

I liker ogees as well I am still having a hard time getting the shape usually what I get is a flared bowl nice but not what I was aiming for. Question what is the top. the way that blank is mounted that is the top and where the crack is the other end is a tenon. Should I use the crack end for the bottom. The crack is the problem, I don t know how to handle it, it is doweled I am also thinking of one for the side crack.

- Karda


Mike, maybe if I changed POSE to ASK, would the question be any clearer? Maybe my Cajun upbringing is too much for a New York Yankee??

I forgot you like the worm screw and probably have the blank mounted that way. So, with the shape of the blank in your reply #7 in this thread, I think you should put the tenon on the side shown, the crack side, and get the maximum diameter of the bowl. It looks like you would lose about 2-3” in diameter if you put the crack and that bark at the top of the bowl.

I want to see the dowels…...... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#14 posted 09-28-2018 03:15 AM

Its all in the crack, after I mounted and turned to the point its at I still don’t know what to do with the crack Instinct says use the side with the bark AS the bottom because it already has a bowl shape, but thats where the crack is. Be glad we are having this conversation. A few months ago I would have trashed the piece or turned the crack away and made a saucer or shallow dish and that would have been a waste of would and a chance to learn lost. I am kinda thick and don’t do puzzles well. Yea I like the worm screw but that is survival. If all I had was a face plate I would have to hammer and chisel flat spots to mount a face plate. I am not a surgeon with a chain saw, and my siurfaces are seldom flat, with a screw there is frequently enough to mount that

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#15 posted 09-28-2018 10:23 PM

ok here is where I m at: no foot Im not that talented like Jerry. it looks like a witches cauldron ok that will turn out nice if you don’t look at the bottom where the are screw holes from the face plate when I mounted on the wrong end. is there a creative way to deal with them other than turning them out

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#16 posted 09-29-2018 04:57 PM

Mike, keep on turning the bottom until the bark is gone. I would turn it until the crack line near the center is reached or disappears. I would go from the inside of that recess and remove the screw holes, possibly leaving about 1/4” for the foot rim thickness. Unfortunately, you probably won’t have any way or reverse turning it as your chuck might not open enough to get a good grab on a recess.

If that’s the case, remove the recess you already have and turn a tenon. you might even remove more of the crack. Total lose on the height of the piece would be about 1/2”-3/4”. I don’t know what chuck you have, but when I make tenons on a 50mm jaw set, I make them at 2 1/4” OD. Nova states you should make them where the jaws form a circle for better holding, but when I made tenons at that size, about 1 7/8”, I would lose about 3 out of 10 pieces from the tenon shearing off. Since I started making my tenons larger than Nova’s recommendations, the only pieces I lose are usually burl pieces that have the tenon at the burl.

After the tenon is established, start from the head stock end and start shaping the piece towards the foot, cutting more off towards the foot. Make as many passes necessary until you are satisfied with the shape. I would make a pedestal on this one somewhere around 3+” OD, and about 1 1/2” tall. You just might be able to remove the crack, and probably the dowels you inserted, but that’s no big deal. They were inserted to only provide security.The rest that is left would be the bowl shape. After you get the OD shaped, reverse it and start the inside. Your tenon should fit into your jaws when they are wide open. Tighten them securely, and while turning when you stop to look at progress, check the jaws. If anything has loosened, tighten some more. it doesn’t hurt to check your chuck each time to stop to look at progress.

Clean off the face of the bowl, and clean up the outside if there is any wobble from reversing it. Drill a hole in the center about 1/8” less than the actual depth for the bowl. Start hollowing it with a light cut near the outside edge, and cut inward, cutting deeper until you reach the hole that was just drilled out. Repeat with a light cut near the rim of the piece and heavier towards the center. At the rim, you should have already established the thickness of the bowl, so each pass you should start a little lower inside the bowl at each pass until you have the uniform thickness that is at the rim. The outside shape is going to dictate the inside shape of your piece if you maintain the same thickness.

On a lighter note, I’m only writing this stuff to try to improve my writing abilities. Heck, just last night I got into an argument with a Circuit Board. After about 10 minutes, I conceded that I lost the argument. I did notice there were no typos on my part. ........... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#17 posted 09-29-2018 09:02 PM

thanks Jerry. this is where I am at, I enlarged the recess to take out the holes, it didn’t but they are inside the recess where they are less obvious. i am going to see if I can turn them out and redo the recess. I just can’t get my head around doing the foot. The way I would normally turn this is to start at the bottom and narrow the bottom so as I work it to create a flare, I still haven’t been able to cut an oggee I know what I should do but I am having a hard convincing the tool to do it the way Its tool. I lose more arguments with my tools than I win, and forget eliminating tear out. Here are a couple pics of where I’m at now. By the way Jerry it is ok to practice your writing and sending it to me, You teach me alot even when I am to thick to understand it at the time. so you can practice with me any time

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LeeMills

660 posts in 1664 days


#18 posted 09-30-2018 12:25 AM

Lots of ways to do most things but what has been described will work.
OH NO! NOT ANOTHER VIDEO
Yep, just for forming an ogee. Forget the rest of the 1-1/4 hour video.
About minutes 10-14 Jimmy Clewes shows layout on a whiteboard. Minutes 14-18 he makes the cuts on the project.
He has done so many he can guesstimate but I still measure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUgzUcobSR4

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#19 posted 09-30-2018 01:37 AM

thanks for the video I have been looking for one that explained how to make an ogee shaped bowl. I watched about 50 minutes. I got many tips from that video, it answered some questions also thanks

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#20 posted 09-30-2018 01:49 AM

Thanks, Lee. Clewes’ videos are good. I probably should be taking speech classes instead of trying to enhance my writing skills.

Mike, watch that video. You can’t go wrong even if you understand only half of it. The rest will come with time.
Remove that bulge out of the piece. It looks like it can be turned out, leaving a piece with no cracks in it. It looks like it’s doable. While removing it, don’t do a straight line. Contour it and work down towards the foot, leaving at least 1/4” thickness around the recess. To get the foot, remove wood to the same depth as the recess. Start just under that lip you have, and cut the bulge down until it is concave working towards the foot. That shape itself would be a pretty good looking form, but you must get the foot down smaller than what it looks like you are going to end up with. ............ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#21 posted 09-30-2018 02:44 AM

i don’t understand, you are explaining it clear enough for a normal person but I was never accused of being normal. i can’t picture what you are describing. should I make the foot first or end up with the foot that is what confuses me. I never work down on a bowl I always work up. sorry to be so thick. I am very low on imagineation

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#22 posted 09-30-2018 02:59 PM

First thing I would do is remove that bulge. Then, take the corner off just like Clewes shows in his video at 10-14 minutes, in the drawing he shows. Then he shows exactly how to do it on the lathe. Not hard to do.
Take another look at the bottom picture in your post #17. Picture that bark line as what you want end up with as the final shape. Remove every bit of that bark off the piece. You will have narrowed the foot to a more pleasing appearance. Picture a short wide cone without a point. That’s your goal, then you can start flaring it to what you like. It’s not hard at all. I think your mindset is you have this piece of wood that is now shaped “X” round/OD, and you’re gonna keep it that size and shape. I’m saying try something different.

Right now, the general shape you’ve started looks like it will end up similar to this piece when done.

What I’m saying is if you remove the bark, you’r general shape will be something like this.

Oops!! I hit the post button before I was done. Anyway, the pictures above are pictures from the internet. I have no idea who made the bowls pictured, so I cannot give any credit to the turners who made them.
Here is another with a definite foot.

These are just profiles you could be using because of that bark and crack. I have nothing against bark on a bowl, but if I can take it off, I will if it looks like it will come off by itself later on.

To my question I asked/posed in an earlier post, I’ll ask again. Are you waiting for me or anyone else to give you a suggestion before returning to the lathe and commencing work on your project? Or have you just gone back to turning it?............... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#23 posted 09-30-2018 04:56 PM

thanks Jerry the pictures realy helps, i am a visual learner. Yes i am waiting for explanation. I feel if I have asked the question I should wait for an answer, I want to do something different not the usual flared dish like below. Also I don’t like to turn at night because my lathe is almost under the bed room where my wife is sleeping. This is what I am trying to avoid

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#24 posted 10-01-2018 02:41 PM

Hey folks, Welcome to the Mike and Jerry Long Distance Woodturning School.

Mike, now all you need to do is to star nibbling away at the foot, working your way straight up about an 1 1/2”, leaving yourself with about a 1/4” deep x 3/8” thick rim at the recess. When you reach that 1 1/2” height, the piece is going to look like it’s sitting on a short post, probably somewhere around 3+” OD. Start cutting at the sharp corner and working towards the foot you just established. keep repeating that until a convex shape starts to appear. When the shape is an opposite of the concave shape you already have, you will have created an Ogee shape. It might not be a true Ogee, but it’s a start, and then you can improve from there… If that doesn’t make any sense, I’ll start another today, and take pictures of what I’m trying to convey. Then tonight I’ll post them…............ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#25 posted 10-01-2018 08:41 PM

Hi Jerry, I worked away that bulge and shaped the cove and now I have a gentle ogee at least I think I do. but in the process I chipped the foot. The bowl is wider than I want I think it would look better narrower, Next time I think I will use a tenon. The foot is 3.5” wide, the recess a little over 2.5”

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#26 posted 10-01-2018 10:53 PM

Hmmmm, now, start at the top of the crack and keep removing material until that crack is gone. Look at your foot. The crack looks to be about 1/4” from the inside of the foot. Remove all that wood until the crack disappears. While causing the crack to disappear, you should end up with an elevated foot, about 1 1/2” tall. Shape the outside bottom to make that ogee you are trying to make. Do that next, and show another of your progress. I’m going out and start my bowl, and will take pictures of what I was trying to get you to understand in my other posts…... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#27 posted 10-01-2018 11:27 PM

that crack is deep also it run across the top of the foot, it doweled

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#28 posted 10-02-2018 12:12 AM

Okie dokie Mikie, here is a tutorial from the start after rounding the blank. It is right now 5:03 pm. I started this about 4:15pm. It’s taken me about 15 minutes to get the pictures downloaded and then resized for Lumberjocks to accept them.
This first pic shows the half log that has been rounded. It also has a couple dowels in it, but they will disappear.

The next 2 pics shows the contour of the log. If you notice, my Chuck Plate is what’s holding it in at the headstock, and my live center is keeping it between centers. I call both the LC and CP “My” because I made both. I did some cutting on the face of the bowl as I wanted to see what kind of depth there would be for the bowl, and how tall the foot would be.

The next 2 pictures should show where the bowl ends, and the foot begins. Notice the area where bark used to be. That will be removed when I start the cut from the middle towards the foot.

Just for S&G’s, I tried to make it look somewhat like yours did at the beginning. The foot is starting to get down to dimension. That’s what I was trying to have you arrive at when I kept saying to remove the crack. Of course, there is much more to be done to refine all this.

The bulge has been removed, and now it’s time to start defining the bottom contour of the bowl. Just turn up to the foot and stop. Repeat until you think the contour is right.

I don’t know if you can see the pencil marf at the ftenon area. The tenon and foot OD has been determined, and will get that done.

Next is to refine the foot and make the tenon.
Foot is turned to the bottom edge.

Foot is now refined

Tenon recess is made. Tenon is 2 1/4” OD, and recess is large enough to have the chuck jaws fit flush at the bottom of the bowl.

Blank is mounted into the chuck, ready to remove the innards.

The blanks is now faced, and will remove the innards at a later date, possibly tomorrow.
This is as close to a step by step as I could come up with. I know it’s short on detail, but you have been turning over 2 years now, and some of this should just be a refresher course in turning. Maybe it doesn’t make sense to some, but that’s the way I approach most half log blanks, unless it has some nice crotch feather, then I go from the bark inward.

Also, I’m not hijacking Mike’s thread as I’m just trying to give him instruction…........ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#29 posted 10-02-2018 12:20 AM

heres where I am at so far.the crack where there is no glue is about 1/8 deep put a machinist rule in it. What is happening and why I quit foe the knight is when I started taking down the bulge more the bowl started to straighten out. I’ll tell ya I am having a real struggle to keep that from being just another flared bowl. I can’t see a 1.5” foot unless I am not taking off enough. I did have a nice smooth surface with very little roughness now its like a wash board. accidently closed the form heres the pics

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#30 posted 10-02-2018 12:31 AM

sorry accidentally closed the forum heres the pics of where iam at

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#31 posted 10-02-2018 03:25 AM

Hi Jerry I didn’t respond to your pics because I was responding to your request for an update and didn’t see it till much later. That is an impressive piece you have to work with. i studied the picture sequence and i can see how the bowl developed. That is a great help. I have learned more from this bowl than any other i have done. The main reason is because I am forcing my self to do something different. My usual way is to mount a piece and start turning and see what comes out. on this one I am trying to do something different. I am not good at seeing the obvious. Thank you for everything I will post pics when I get it done Mike

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#32 posted 10-02-2018 03:01 PM

Ok, I’ll be waiting to see them. I should hane this’un done later today. Too many errands and no time to play…................... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#33 posted 10-02-2018 03:19 PM

yea I know the feeling. What kind of wood, look a bit like mesquite

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#34 posted 10-02-2018 04:37 PM

Yep, Mesquite. It has a different color than most of my mesquite. It still turns pretty good….... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Jack Lewis

437 posts in 1441 days


#35 posted 10-02-2018 05:34 PM

And send Jerry all your shavings and saw dust. He never has enough in his shop.

-- "PLUMBER'S BUTT! Get over it, everybody has one"

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#36 posted 10-02-2018 10:53 PM

Dat’s rite, jack. Can never have enough….....

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#37 posted 10-02-2018 11:27 PM

thats what I thought when I saw the first picture of the fully turned outside. Is that light of mesquite uncommon. From the couple pieces you sent I love that wood. Ok I broke the foot, well chipped the crap out of it and there is not much to work with and the crack runs right through it, its doweled and stuffed with epoxy but its can still move take s look

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#38 posted 10-02-2018 11:46 PM

Mike, I’m back, like a nightmare…... this first 2 pictures in this batch is a close up of the dowels. I managed to remove all traces of them.

I’ve started removing the innards, trying to keep the same contour as the outside. Notice that big a$$ catch I got on the rim at about 1 o’clock. I was between centers, so not a big issue there. If possible when hogging out the innards, always keep your tailstock as support until yopu are almost done.

The innards are removed, and am now ready for sanding. Look closely at the very center. A nub remnant should be visible. I don’t have a lot of luck at getting them smooth when cutting them, so I leave them proud and sand them off with my right angle pneumatic sander when sanding the insides.

After sanding both outside/inside, I decided I would revise the foot pedestal. Notice the Ogee on the foot.

The Chuck plate I use with my Rim Chuck is mounted into the chuck

and the proper size Rim Chuck is ready to set up.

It fits.I make my rim grooves the same size as the bowl rim. It’s an interference fit, which I have to get creative sometimes to remove the bowl for bottom checking and just taking it off the Rim Chuck.

Next is mounting it between centers to remove the tenon and hog out the innards of the foot.

The tenon is now history. I want to make a finial with the remnants of the nub.

The nub.

Oh,oh!. It disappeared. About 2 seconds after making tool contact, it broke off. Notice I am using my Tail Stock Steady and the Chuck Plate. Without them, a lot of the stuff I do couldn’t be done. Anyway, I was still able to put a feature on the bottom.

the bowl is done, and sitting on my ways.Total time was about 1 1/2 hours. Bowl is 7 1/2” round at the rim, and 3 1/4” tall. The foot OD is 4” and 1 1/4” from table surface to outside bowl bottom…......

You now have some type of tutorial for your next piece. You can also make any change you like, but if you choose to make an Ogee, this is a start. might not be the PROPER way to do it, but it’s how I do it. It’s also a good way to utilize the full height of a half log blank.

If the blank was a crotch piece, I would have started with the bark up against the headstock, make the tenon, reverse it and work towards the pith to expose the feather. That’s another lesson for another day. .......... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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LeeMills

660 posts in 1664 days


#39 posted 10-03-2018 01:44 AM

Looks like ya’ll got that cake baked. Nice.

I don’t know if this will be put back to finish drying or finish turning now.
Maybe I won’t be the “too many” cooks in the kitchen.
For the icing…
I drew a line on your bowl and the curve looks very nice. Will just need to tuck the bottom curve in at the base when you finish it.
The other pic is from http://turnawoodbowl.com. Lots of good info and you may want to visit there a while as time permits. Your bowl looks very close.

Lyle Jamieson has a nice short (8 minute) video on designing/layout of the foot. Works for either recess or tenon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfZcQ3xFnI4

Only a suggestion but you can decrease the diameter of the foot, shorten it just a little, and leave maybe a 1/4” bead for the bowl to rest on. That will get rid of the torn grain and maybe a lot of the crack.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#40 posted 10-03-2018 03:58 AM

thanks Jerry the bowl is beautiful i will try to save it for future reference.I appreciate all the work you have gone to to record it.
thats ok Lee you are a contributing cook. your ideas are good. I had planed to straighten the foot but then I chipped itand don’t know what to do with that. The foot is narrow about 5/8 wide so if I narrow it it will be more likely to break of in my face. I think the crack is about 1/8th deep. I was thinking lengthen the foot a tad and turn down the surface of the foot but that will weaken the the recess. what ever I do I want to keep a gentle ogee shape. I am try to turn something that I haven’t done before. It seems that my bowls turn out be classic bowl shape or flared

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#41 posted 10-03-2018 04:37 AM

I went down to touch up the bowl, I very slightly undercut the foot and straightened the side. I gentled the cure and reduced the hight of the foot, the recess was deep enough to do that, do i dare undercut the foot and still have it hold when I turn the inside. I’ll have to get some more epoxy in that crack

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LeeMills

660 posts in 1664 days


#42 posted 10-03-2018 12:52 PM

I would not mess with the foot at all now. I meant for the last of the very last turning, you want as much meat on the bone as possible to turn the inside and to remount if you are going to set it back to dry before a final turning.
If you have to let it dry you will probably lose just a little when you re-true it.
I would not do anything else with the foot until both the inside and outside are finished complete.
I would mark the center now of the recess for ease of aligning later.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#43 posted 10-03-2018 03:42 PM

ok there is always the next one, I am going to put some more epoxy in that crack.

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#44 posted 10-03-2018 04:01 PM

Mike, I didn’t show the pic of the bowl on the ways, so here it tis. .

Now that I see a better view of the extent of the crack, you sould keep cutting away at the bowl OD and foot height until you can’t see the crack on the bowl bottom. That would also allow you to refine the shape you have now. It’s close. Look at what Lee just posted. His line goes right through the foot you have and it’s pretty close to what you should end up with.

I would leave the OD of the foot alone until you are done turning the inside to the finished thickness. Since you use recesses and normally don’t re-chuck your pieces for any refinements that might be needed, on this one I would suggest you make up a Rim Chuck attached to your face plate. It’s no more than a piece of 3/4” plywood or a piece of MDF. I like to double up on mine with 2 pieces making up my thickness 1 1/2”. After you have it made up, turn a groove in it that matches the OD of your piece. Doesn’t need to be more that 3/8”’ deep. It should be a snug fit. Mount the piece in the groove and bring up the tailstock. You really shouldn’t need the mark/dimple that Lee suggested, and I agreed to, but it would indicate if you’re not totally aligned. Start working on the foot being careful to not remove any from the outside bottom of the bowl. With good tool control, remove the OD of the foot until it’s about 1/4” wide. If the crack is disappearing quicker than you expected, and the foot rim is thicker, GOOD. If you reach the 1/4” thickness, and the crack is still there, fill it with super glue cuz it’s going to be negligible.

The bottom picture you posted in post 37 looks like taking out the crack will leave you with a quarter inch rim for the foot. That’s plenty for a foot. You just need the confidence to do it. So far, you’ve shown that you are capable of doing it. You just need to take the plunge.

Go ahead and put a pencil mark at the center of the bottom. Then if you make the Rim Chuck I suggested, when you put your piece into the Rim Chuck, put a small piece of wood between your live center and the bottom of the bowl. Apply tension, and turn on the lathe slowly. If the piece is pretty much centered, leave the piece of wood in and turn the outside of the foot to try to remove the crack. Put a bead on it or a cove. Decorate it to make it look like some thought went into your bowl instead of just having a plain old bowl…..... If you aren’t already done by now, Good Luck. If you are done, show the pictures. ........... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Jack Lewis

437 posts in 1441 days


#45 posted 10-03-2018 04:54 PM

OR drill a horizontal hole, add a big brass bolt and nut and call it steampunk!

-- "PLUMBER'S BUTT! Get over it, everybody has one"

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#46 posted 10-03-2018 07:27 PM

ok I lengthened the foot I can see where tis shape is going, finaly. I lengthen the foot a little more and make the bulge a gentle curve into the foot. I think it will look better when I can narrow the foot. It looks odd

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LesB

2075 posts in 3806 days


#47 posted 10-03-2018 07:35 PM

I would turn the screw holes out….unless they are too deep.

As far as the crack goes I would fill it with fine sawdust form the turning blank, then in quick succession, saturate the sawdust with thin CA glue followed by medium or thick CA glue. The thin glue quickly wicks in to the sawdust and than draws the thicker glue in behind it. Keep adding the thicker glue until no more will go in or it starts to set up. You could treat the screw holes the same way.

You can treat the open spaces around those knots the same way and also use the thin CA to firm up those tear out spots before further turning.

If you have a lathe chuck there is a much easier way to mount a blank like that. Check out my blog on the subject if your are interested.

-- Les B, Oregon

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#48 posted 10-04-2018 02:34 AM

Mike, now that you’ve raised the bowl bottom above the crack, you have a couple options. One would be to remove the foot past the crack. The other option is to leave the crack and fill it. Leave it alone after filling it if you choose that route.

After filling the crack, attack the lower portion of the shape you have and make it a reverse of the upper portion coming from then lip. It does not matter if you cut into the foot portion to make the bowl bottom more appealing. Remember, if you are going for the height of the foot, you have plenty of solid wood to keep this piece intact. You are a long way from losing it. Go back and look at my pictures of the foot. You can remove at least 2 inches of it right at the bowl bottom without sacrificing the strength of the foot. While taking off some of the extra wood, make the contour a clean look. When you have that turned down to your satisfaction, start the innards.

Turn the inside out until you like the thickness of the bowl, about 1/4 – 3/8” maximum. Make up your rim Chuck, and then measure for the groove you need for the rim OD. Measure across the grain, and with the grain. If there is a difference, try splitting the difference and make the groove fit the rim. It should be a snug fit, but not something you have to force the bowl into. Turn the groove while starting/stopping to check progress until you have a good snug fit.

There are two ways to approach this. Mount the bowl between centers and start removing the outside of the foot taking it down to that 1/4” thickness I’ve mentioned numerous times between the recess and the outside. Stick with that option by starting to trim the height down to remove the dowels. That will give you a short foot with a still good looking bowl. just keep removing wood until you reach what looks good to you. For me, that would be about a 1/4” high foot with a bead, or a small cove at the transition between the foot and bowl. Remove all wood until yopu have a small nub. If your Rim Chuck is a good snug fit, pull the tailstock back and remove the nub while still in the Rim Chuck always cutting towards the headstock. Very light cuts, and comfortable speed. Since I invented the Tail Stock Steady in 2012, I don’t really know how to approach it the way I described. Physics indicates if it’s snug, and you always cut towards the headstock, it will stay in place until you remove it. Stuart Batty uses jam chucks, which are not too much different than the snug fit I just described using the face plate and Rm Chuck.

The second option would be to leave the foot as long as it is and trim it towards the recess, leaving the 1/4” thickness I described above. After you achieve that, then start cutting in towards the center of the pedestal to give it some flow, rather than having a straight foot/pedestal. f you choose to go for height. Leave the OD at the recess about 4” if you have that much to work with, and then start tapering the pedestal towards the bowl bottom. When you get it to 3” round, that’s as far as you need to go. Start hollowing out the foot to remove excess wood, leaving the nub in place. When you get the depth where the bowl bottom is now 1/4 -3/8’ thick, sop and remove the nub. Piece of cake. The tools I use for the foot shaping and hollowing is usually Easywood CI5 which is the small round tool. It will allow me to get rounded inside corners, plus it’s just so easy to use. ......... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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Karda

1485 posts in 917 days


#49 posted 10-04-2018 04:16 AM

Hi me again. I have a finished form. Not quite the smooth lines I wanted. but its ok. one dowel disapesared and another partially I sanded it to 1000 grit then wiped it down with paint thinner, that is what I want in a finish. I wish the wood would dry that color.

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Nubsnstubs

1534 posts in 2093 days


#50 posted 10-04-2018 07:02 PM

Well, I guess we’ll all see it when It’s done…....... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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