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View boobird's profile

Newbie + router table = difficulty controlling the piece

by boobird
posted 09-17-2018 07:31 PM


18 replies so far

View chrisstef's profile

chrisstef

17914 posts in 3393 days


#1 posted 09-17-2018 07:39 PM

Smaller bites will help.

-- Its not a crack, its a casting imperfection.

View BuffaloBrewer's profile

BuffaloBrewer

71 posts in 1205 days


#2 posted 09-17-2018 07:39 PM

If I’m picturing your set up right a following piece of scrap will help. If you are going deep you might find doing it in a couple passes will be easier too.

View Andybb's profile (online now)

Andybb

1917 posts in 990 days


#3 posted 09-17-2018 07:41 PM

Is this what you are using?

No experience with it but…
1. Is it possible you are running into the shaft because the fence is too far back?
2. I wouldn’t think that you’d use a miter gauge for a long edge but maybe for the end grain edge.
3. Are you trying to take too deep of a cut?? (probably not as most routers should be able to handle that)

Maybe someone could help if you posted a few pictures??

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Waldo88's profile

Waldo88

207 posts in 1683 days


#4 posted 09-17-2018 07:46 PM

Take a few passes before you get to full depth on the groove (pretty much should always do this no matter what bit you are using).

View BFamous's profile

BFamous

316 posts in 507 days


#5 posted 09-17-2018 07:53 PM

Toss the router bit for the groove and use your table saw, with a dado blade if you have one…
I’ve always found the table saw is easier for cutting grooves (especially ones deeper than 1/4”) in a single pass.
You can also use the table saw to cut the tongues, but if you are having success with the router there, why change… You could actually run a two machine setup and just burn through the job once everything is calibrated properly.

-- Brian Famous :: Charlotte, NC :: http://www.FamousArtisan.com

View boobird's profile

boobird

12 posts in 302 days


#6 posted 09-17-2018 08:41 PM



Is this what you are using?

No experience with it but…
1. Is it possible you are running into the shaft because the fence is too far back?
2. I wouldn t think that you d use a miter gauge for a long edge but maybe for the end grain edge.
3. Are you trying to take too deep of a cut?? (probably not as most routers should be able to handle that)

Maybe someone could help if you posted a few pictures??

- Andybb

Yes I’m using that router bit. There is a bearing wheel on the shaft. The wood piece touches the bearing wheel..

View Rich's profile

Rich

4476 posts in 976 days


#7 posted 09-17-2018 09:31 PM

That should be easy in one pass. Since you mention fence, I’m assuming you’re using a fence and setting it flush with the bearing. If you aren’t, do that.

Second, I find it really hard to imagine you’re struggling to keep the board flat on the fence, even with the hardest woods. Even so, a feather board will help.

Finally, be sure the bit is sharp. I know it’s new, but Freud has surprised me a couple of times with things that slipped through inspection. Particularly since you mention the tongue bit works fine. If you were going to struggle with either, I’d expect it to be the tongue bit since it has two cutters.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View diverlloyd's profile

diverlloyd

3499 posts in 2244 days


#8 posted 09-17-2018 10:55 PM

Are you pushing the boards right to left or left to right? That’s while standing in front of the router table. It sounds like you are feeding from the wrong side. The proper side to feed from is the side that the router bit is rotating towards. That would be from the right to left on most router tables. That also forces the work piece to be pushed into the fence by the bit. The opposite way the bit forces the work piece away from the fence.

View Jeff's profile

Jeff

507 posts in 3581 days


#9 posted 09-17-2018 11:24 PM

If he was feeding backward he’d know it. The piece would pull drastically.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

1343 posts in 1881 days


#10 posted 09-18-2018 08:12 AM

hmm,
you have not shared type of wood used?

Hmm,
If tongue was easy to cut (using 2 cutters), why would groove (using 1 cutter) require more feed pressure? Groove/slot cutter is not touching the edges? Which edge is uneven?

Sorry to be dense, but the request for help does not compute?

Do you have any dust collection behind your router bit?
If slot gets jammed up with large chunks of saw dust (especially if try to feed too fast), it can interfere with cur speed and quality.

Pictures would be helpful.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

970 posts in 3469 days


#11 posted 09-18-2018 08:43 AM

The cutters on the groove bit are probably on backwards/upside down.

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View boobird's profile

boobird

12 posts in 302 days


#12 posted 09-18-2018 01:10 PM

Sorry, I misspoke.

Tongues are difficult to cut. lots of resistance.
Grooves are easy and smooth

View Rich's profile

Rich

4476 posts in 976 days


#13 posted 09-18-2018 02:31 PM


Sorry, I misspoke.

Tongues are difficult to cut. lots of resistance.
Grooves are easy and smooth

- boobird

If it’s not already set this way, adjust the cutters so they are at 90º to one another so that both of them aren’t hitting the wood at the same time. It might not eliminate what you’re experiencing, but it will be smoother.

And, like I said earlier, use a feather board or two.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

602 posts in 297 days


#14 posted 09-18-2018 06:28 PM

It also makes a difference on routing feed direction for control.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3394 posts in 1867 days


#15 posted 09-18-2018 07:16 PM

That’s a 1/2” shank so the depth has to be about 1/2” correct?

That’s an very deep cut on anybody’s router table.

Doing it in 2 passes will solve the problem.

The reason its harder is obvious: two cutters vs. one.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Rich's profile

Rich

4476 posts in 976 days


#16 posted 09-18-2018 07:36 PM


That s a 1/2” shank so the depth has to be about 1/2” correct?

That s an very deep cut on anybody s router table.

Doing it in 2 passes will solve the problem.

The reason its harder is obvious: two cutters vs. one.

- rwe2156

The shank diameter has nothing to do with the depth of cut. I can make this cut in one pass on 1-3/4” stock with my 2-1/4hp Bosch motor in a JessEm lift, so it’s pretty safe to say that that tongue cut would be a breeze for any medium to heavy duty router and table.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1556 posts in 2116 days


#17 posted 09-18-2018 07:44 PM

How wide are your “tongues”? I call that piece you are calling a tongue a RAIL. You said, ”Grooves seem very difficult to lay flush against the fence. I’m getting a lot of resistance as I push thru. This is causing an uneven edge. Is this normal? You need to tell how wide your rails are and as Rich said, bearing and fence aligned.

If you have a good router, you don’t need to make 2 passes unless you get a lot of tearout. If that’s the case, then move the fence away a 1/16th, rout everything, then align the fence to the bearing for the clean up pass. ............ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

1343 posts in 1881 days


#18 posted 09-19-2018 12:10 AM


Sorry, I misspoke.
Tongues are difficult to cut. lots of resistance.
Grooves are easy and smooth
- boobird

Tongues, not grooves – check.
Thanks for reducing my crazy factor for this thread. :)
Now -

What kind of wood?
Please post picture of tear out/rough edge on tongue machining.

1) Wood structure, and grain direction is important!

If you attempt to machine a coarse-open grain wood like Oak, Ash, Hickory, (etc, etc) and you cut against the grain; the tear out can be horrible and push force required increases as the cutter is bouncing between hard and soft wood layers as the chunks are forcing wood grain to lift. Force is definitely less if you cut WITH grain direction or if using fine grain wood like maple or cherry.

2) Wood hardness matters!

Any 2HP+ router should be capable of single pass routing with tongue groove bit set. Have done it many times, on different types of woods. BUT some woods require adjustment to machining process to get best results.
If the wood is hard/dense hardwood like oak, jatoba, rosewood or bubinga (or high on Janka scale), then large deep cuts can create ‘chatter’ and require a slower feed rate. Even with reduced feed rate, you can still have issues with chatter; which can be helped by using feather boards to help ensure pressure is maintained constantly while machining.
On harder woods like teak, snake wood, ipe, (etc) typically have to cut the profile in 2 passes. Where you take 60-80% of cut in 1st pass, and rest in second pass. This will reduce the energy required for final cut, reduce the chatter and improve the surface finish. When machining profiles in hardwood prone to extreme chip out like zebra wood or ebony, you might even need to make a total of 3-4 lighter cuts to combat the tear out issues (despite the 2HP router has plenty of power to cut it all in one pass).

In summary; folks above have already made the appropriate suggestions on how to improve your cut quality and reduce the feed pressure to help get best results. But if you share wood type, and some pictures; you might get some more specific ‘recipes’ used by others to solve your issues.

Best Luck!

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

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