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Woodpeckers Router Lift_Bosch 1617

by Blackfin29
posted 09-14-2018 12:29 AM


31 replies so far

View Rich's profile

Rich

4478 posts in 977 days


#1 posted 09-14-2018 01:37 AM

I can do above table changes with my JessEm and the 1617 using the standard Bosch wrenches. Maybe you can get two of the offset wrenches.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1920 posts in 991 days


#2 posted 09-14-2018 05:21 PM

As I have an original PRL and use the offset wrenches I initially thought that wasn’t true but I just called WP as I had considered upgrading my original PRL to the version 2. No above the table bit changes with the newer lift. That would be a deal breaker for me. They said the same for the Porter Cable too. Surprised they would do that for two very popular router models.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Rich's profile

Rich

4478 posts in 977 days


#3 posted 09-14-2018 05:42 PM


Surprised they would do that for two very popular router models.

- Andybb

Me too, Andy. So with the new version you can’t even do above table changes with offset wrenches? I don’t get it. Are you supposed to lift the plate out of the table or something?

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View JRsgarage's profile

JRsgarage

367 posts in 897 days


#4 posted 09-14-2018 05:49 PM

Seems to defeat the purpose of a lift. Lifting the plate to change bits would be a major pain…better without a lift

-- “Facts don't care about your feelings.” ..., Ben Shapiro

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 557 days


#5 posted 09-14-2018 05:57 PM

This is interesting because in the literature it reads “offset wrenches, or collet extenders help” in above the table changes…

I’m a bit pissed off having just spent over a grand on this thing only to find this out….. NEVER heard a word of this until I read the manual.

Wouldn’t this news have spread quicker? am I the only guy to read the manual? I don’t fully believe it yet…

The product is nice.. actually if it means I buy a compatible router to be this quality I probably would do it.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1920 posts in 991 days


#6 posted 09-14-2018 06:37 PM

Even though I talked to them today I am still skeptical. Even with the router all the way down I can still reach the collet nuts with the offset wrenches. If the bit is high enough to use on the table I just can’t see how it can’t be reached and changed with the offset wrenches. Hmmm.

Yes, I would think somebody would have mentioned this before. Hopefully somebody with a V2 and a Bosch or PC will comment.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 557 days


#7 posted 09-14-2018 08:40 PM

So I just spoke to Woodpecker’s Customer Service. They claim offset wrenches make it possible, and/or a collet extender (Which I’m not loving).

Let’s hope someone chimes in with a Bosch 1617 in use… at this point I’m happy with the product, and would buy a different router motor if needed honestly. BUT still worth knowing.

View Kirk650's profile

Kirk650

643 posts in 1136 days


#8 posted 09-14-2018 10:59 PM

I have a PC router in my router table, and I can raise and lower the router bit from above the table. I can also use the offset wrenches to change router bits. I have a plate that allows me to remove a good bit of the plate to get to the bit. I think it’s a Rousseau (spelling). I can’t get the bit above the plate/table, but that isn’t a problem.

I have two 1617’s that I use for other jobs. I got the PC specifically because it was highly recommended for router table use.

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 557 days


#9 posted 09-14-2018 11:46 PM



I have a PC router in my router table, and I can raise and lower the router bit from above the table. I can also use the offset wrenches to change router bits. I have a plate that allows me to remove a good bit of the plate to get to the bit. I think it’s a Rousseau (spelling). I can’t get the bit above the plate/table, but that isn’t a problem.

I have two 1617’s that I use for other jobs. I got the PC specifically because it was highly recommended for router table use.

- Kirk650

Thanks, Kirk.

So is your LIFT a Woodpeckers PRL V2? This is “problem” I’m suspecting is unique to that specific lift/plate.


View Kirk650's profile

Kirk650

643 posts in 1136 days


#10 posted 09-15-2018 04:30 PM

With the PC routers, and the Bosch 1617’s, you don’t actually need a lift. The routers can be raised and lowered from above the table. In my first homemade router table I had the router attacked to a rectangular plate that was in place of the router base. I just lifted out the router and plate and changed bits. The fancier router table I have now has the PC router attached to a similar rectangular flat plate (maybe I can get the name of it) that has round inserts that snap into place. I use the ‘crank’, supplied by PC, to raise the bit as high as it will go, snap out the round inserts and use the offset wrenches to loosen the Collet and remove the bit. Easier to do than it is to write this. Let me see if I can find the model of the router table plate I use.

Yep, it’s the Rousseau Router Base Plate, for the grand sum of $8.99 at Woodcraft. Looks to be the same one as Klingspor’s for $44. Woodpeckers has one for $120 that has more snap in parts that will fit more sizes of router bits, but I have no problems with the one I have. Unscrew the Base plate on your router and replace with the Rousseau. Might need to drill and countersink a hole or two. Instructions with the plate will show you all you need to know for installation. And buy a remote shutoff for the router, so you can turn it on and off without having to reach under the table.

Oops, I lied. The $8.99 is for the centering kit. The Base Plate Insert (model 3509) itself is $56. Sorry about that. Maybe the Klingspor at $44 is a better deal. Anyway, except for my pricing mistake, the rest of what I said is workable.

View Rich's profile

Rich

4478 posts in 977 days


#11 posted 09-15-2018 06:12 PM


With the PC routers, and the Bosch 1617’s, you don’t actually need a lift.

- Kirk650

I knew one of these “you don’t need a lift” replies would come along sooner or later. There is no comparison between a real high-end router lift and a router mounted to a plate. Zero. There’s a reason those lifts like JessEm and WP cost what they do. They’re built like tanks to handle the heaviest loads without flexing. Try making a stick cut in a 1-3/4” door stile in one pass without one. Actually, don’t try — it would be dangerous.

Besides that, the precision in the adjustment is in another league as well. Most, like the JessEm have a split nut on the lead screw that can be set for zero backlash. Even as it wears, you can reset it for no backlash.

There are many other advantages as well. The bottom line is, if your setup meets your needs, that’s great. It wouldn’t meet mine.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

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Kirk650

643 posts in 1136 days


#12 posted 09-15-2018 07:16 PM

Well…the truth is that ya don’t NEED a lift. Buy one if you want to, or if you are doing something that does indeed require one. I don’t do house type doors, and if I did I’d use my shaper and not the router. I don’t need a lift, and haven’t for 20 years of woodworking.

And do we really benefit from your suggesting that folks with no router lift are to be held in contempt?

View Rich's profile

Rich

4478 posts in 977 days


#13 posted 09-15-2018 07:18 PM


And do we really benefit from your suggesting that folks with no router lift are to be held in contempt?

- Kirk650

Your words, not mine.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 557 days


#14 posted 09-19-2018 04:33 PM

The verdict is in…. after 2 days of assembling this entire kit I am finally happy to say that the 1617 collet IS INDEED accessible from above the table during bit changes. NO idea why they would say that. Sure your lower jam-nut wrench will be tilted but do-able. However, the angle over time might compromise that jam-nut so I bought some offset wrenches and it’s overkill. IT CAN BE DONE.

Why would Woodpeckers make that claim? Or sort of make that claim.. I’ve only seen it in the owners manual.

One other issue… a $1000+ router table set up and it turns out they no longer provide the bolts to mount the lift to the phenolic table? Woodpeckers as usual, is awesome and is sending out 4 because I asked. BUT they told me they no longer supply them because the lift itself is heavy enough? Anyone buying that?

Overall SKOOOOOKUM rig…. Solid.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1920 posts in 991 days


#15 posted 09-19-2018 07:50 PM


Woodpeckers as usual, is awesome and is sending out 4 because I asked. BUT they told me they no longer supply them because the lift itself is heavy enough? Anyone buying that?

- Blackfin29

At least for the PRL that is absolutely true. It weighs at least 25-30 lbs and will not move and does not need hold downs. Can’t speak to the newer ones as the specs say that version 2 is only 14 lbs.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Rich's profile

Rich

4478 posts in 977 days


#16 posted 09-19-2018 08:11 PM

Again, I’m dealing with a JessEm, but when I first got it I assumed the weight of the lift and motor was enough and didn’t screw it down on the table. What I found was that, yes, it’s heavy enough that it doesn’t budge during use, but the leveling screws were turning due to vibration and I was having to re-level it frequently. When I screwed it down tight, it apparently locked those because I haven’t had to touch them for a couple of years now.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 557 days


#17 posted 09-19-2018 08:13 PM

The PRL V2 isn’t 25 pounds. But it surely is more than 3? interesting….

Anyways we cleared up the bit change issue….

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1920 posts in 991 days


#18 posted 09-20-2018 12:04 AM



Again, I m dealing with a JessEm, but when I first got it I assumed the weight of the lift and motor was enough and didn t screw it down on the table. What I found was that, yes, it s heavy enough that it doesn t budge during use, but the leveling screws were turning due to vibration and I was having to re-level it frequently. When I screwed it down tight, it apparently locked those because I haven t had to touch them for a couple of years now.

- Rich

Excellent point Rich! I guess mine is older and grungier in the leveling hole inserts so they don’t move but if you add in the weight of the router and the fact that I’m using a table fashioned from wood I’ll bet those screws make their own depression which is why I need to adjust periodically. Should probably put something metal under them.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Woodbum's profile

Woodbum

874 posts in 3453 days


#19 posted 09-20-2018 01:09 PM

I have 2 WP PRL V2 lifts with 7518 PC motors in them and do all of my bit changes above the table. I use one bent wrench and one straight and have no problems at all.

-- "Now I'm just another old guy wearing funny clothes"

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1920 posts in 991 days


#20 posted 09-21-2018 01:14 AM

Strange that WP is telling folks there are no above the table blade change options.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View CecilD's profile

CecilD

60 posts in 3815 days


#21 posted 02-17-2019 06:16 PM

Just went to the Woodworkers show in St. Louis and purchased the table, stand. fence, micro adjuster and lift on impulse. Wish I had read this before going. I have 3, Bosch 1617’s and do not want to change as all my jigs and accessories are set up for Bosch. If I remove the ring I can change the bit from the top but it is not what I would call good. I think the lift , fence and micro adjuster is top quality but they should have worked out a fix. I would think just the placement of the set screw for the block and or maybe a little longer blocks would work. Not an engineer but a farm boy who sometime must make thing work.

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 557 days


#22 posted 02-17-2019 09:33 PM



Just went to the Woodworkers show in St. Louis and purchased the table, stand. fence, micro adjuster and lift on impulse. Wish I had read this before going. I have 3, Bosch 1617 s and do not want to change as all my jigs and accessories are set up for Bosch. If I remove the ring I can change the bit from the top but it is not what I would call good. I think the lift , fence and micro adjuster is top quality but they should have worked out a fix. I would think just the placement of the set screw for the block and or maybe a little longer blocks would work. Not an engineer but a farm boy who sometime must make thing work.

- CecilD

So here’s the deal.. I’ve been using my Woodpeckers lift and Bosch 1617 for about a year now. While you certainly do not have incredibly clear access the the lower nut on the router (smaller nut below the collet), it is possible to make the change.
I find it best to use a straight wrench, not the offset wrench (Which I thought would have worked better) but not the case for certain bits. You’re going to want to own both straight and offset honestly which isn’t that big of a deal.
The biggest challenge I’ve had is using very large bits like a cabinet raised panel, or even a tongue and groove set up. The problem lies in you can’t have the red zero clearance plate on, or any plate for that matter, and STILL access that lower nut.. so what I do is put the circular zero clearance/throat plate in then put the bit in while the straight wrench is seated in place.. tighten it all up, and slide wrench out from under the throat plate. This is for ONLY large bits.

I will say this… This router set-up has such repeatability, and ability to be tweaked and locked, and offset and minutely adjusted with the thumbwheel I find that having a small issue with the wrench not fitting under larger bits to be worth the price of admission.
This lift, and fence system is incredible. Micro adjust is next for me.

Don’t let it ruin your purchase. It could be worse I just found out my brand new Grizzly table saw has .015 deflection at the rear of the blade when raising and lowering it. Now that sucks because the workaround is such that you can’t be assured of accuracy. This issue you have isn’t bad, trust me. I’m literally making shaker cabinets as we speak tonight and it’s just not that big of a deal.

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 557 days


#23 posted 02-17-2019 09:35 PM

Basically WP simply made the Claim that those routers were affected by the lift… They went to the extreme and trust me, they went over kill in saying they are NOT COMPATIBLE… They are compatible, just that lower nut is tough to reach, not impossible… I’ve NEVER had to remove my lift.

View CecilD's profile

CecilD

60 posts in 3815 days


#24 posted 02-18-2019 04:53 PM

Talked to Woodpecker today and they had a suggestion that will work for me. I must say that Customer Service at Woodpecker is TOPS. The cost of most items had stopped me from purchasing in the past, But quality of the products are top of the line and CS is great. So I now know I will get what I pay for from Woodpecker. A Top Quality product backed up with Top Quality Customer Service.
Cecil Dean

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1920 posts in 991 days


#25 posted 02-18-2019 07:01 PM

Not sure what the confusion is. I have a 1617 in that lift and have no issues.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 557 days


#26 posted 02-18-2019 08:16 PM



Talked to Woodpecker today and they had a suggestion that will work for me. I must say that Customer Service at Woodpecker is TOPS. The cost of most items had stopped me from purchasing in the past, But quality of the products are top of the line and CS is great. So I now know I will get what I pay for from Woodpecker. A Top Quality product backed up with Top Quality Customer Service.
Cecil Dean

- CecilD

Like I said, AndyBob the issues aren’t great, just states it in the literature, and yes getting at that lower collect with large bits is a challenge.

Cecil would you mind sharing what workaorund the suggest?? I’d thought of an extender, or muscle chuck type of product.

Overall it’s NOT huge issue but would love to hear what they said.. and yes great customer service.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1920 posts in 991 days


#27 posted 03-04-2019 10:24 PM

Just in case somebody looks back at this thread… I just figured this out after replacing my V1 with a V2 and actually reading the instructions last week what they mean when they say you can’t do above the table bit changes.

After careful reading of the verbage what they are saying is that you can’t do it with straight wrenches. Absolutely no issue with angled wrenches, but the straight wrenches work also.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 557 days


#28 posted 03-04-2019 11:19 PM

Agree, Andy that we need to set it straight for those who come after us. I literally just left my router table, and I’ve never been unable to remove a bit from above. Like mentioned I have needed to use offset wrenches in some instances.
I will also mention just last week using a 5/32 groove bit (I prefer this method over a biscuit joiner simply for the precision of the table) and I actually had to use the offset small wrench AND a STRAIGHT larger collet wrench IF I also wanted to install a very small throat plate.. juggling the 3 was a test that proved owning BOTH straight and offset , and keeping them close by is likely the best scenario. It’s the way I have found best. I have the Rockler dust box, propped up on a little cuddy I made where I store all the tools.

Thanks, Andy!! Buy the WP V2 and use a 1617 No Problemo

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1920 posts in 991 days


#29 posted 03-04-2019 11:36 PM

Although I must say I kinda miss my V1. Had a 3rd issue with the brake and at $60 shipping to send it back I called customer service and said, “hey!”. They said they don’t make parts for it anymore but they would sell me a V2 for $200 and I could keep my V1. Sold the V1 for $200 only a few hours after posting on CL. That thing was built like a Sherman tank. Haven’t had a chance to use the V2 yet but I did feel the need to actually screw it down as it only weighs half of what the V1 did.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 557 days


#30 posted 03-05-2019 12:13 AM



Although I must say I kinda miss my V1. Had a 3rd issue with the brake and at $60 shipping to send it back I called customer service and said, “hey!”. They said they don t make parts for it anymore but they would sell me a V2 for $200 and I could keep my V1. Sold the V1 for $200 only a few hours after posting on CL. That thing was built like a Sherman tank. Haven t had a chance to use the V2 yet but I did feel the need to actually screw it down as it only weighs half of what the V1 did.

- Andybb

The V1 was a beast!! Never owned one but dag-gone they have some weight.

My V2 did not come with mounting bolts and I called and they informed me that MOST don’t secure it because it’s heavy. Not compared to the V1.
I have the Woodpeckers Phenolic Router table, and I chose to secure it mainly because I just want to ensure there is no movement during use at all… I secure it, and forget it.

I suspect they may release a new version again soon?? I can’t see why…. or the need, but it’s more of an evolution of products. If you’re not evolving you’re dying I guess….lol..

Good Luck with the V2!!! I love mine… All WP Products actually…. I’m being financially advised on another thread not to buy their present one-time-tool because you can have just as good a square by purchasing a plastic draftsmen square and putting a groove in a piece of wood, and securing it to that and that would save me some money…hahahahaha… I LOVE Woodpecker products PERIOD because you just can’t buy good stuff today as easily as we once could!!

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1920 posts in 991 days


#31 posted 03-05-2019 12:26 AM

I have only a few WP tools. Their 24” T square (that’s in my avatar under my DIY mini square) and something else I can’t remember. Yes, the square was $100 but it is the standard I use to insure all of my plastic HF stuff is square, which it seems to always be. “Square is square”. Good stuff but ridiculously high priced.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

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