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View mIps's profile

Tablesaw troubles

by mIps
posted 09-10-2018 09:23 PM


17 replies so far

View Steve's profile

Steve

1645 posts in 1146 days


#1 posted 09-10-2018 09:31 PM

is this a new problem with your tablesaw? is the blade parallel to the fence? and is the wood moving away from the fence at the end of the blade/cut?

View EdDantes's profile

EdDantes

74 posts in 474 days


#2 posted 09-10-2018 09:42 PM

How are you cutting the short sides? Miter gauge? Crosscut sled? Is the side out of square always the one cut with the stop block?

If the sides are not cut in the exact same method (e.g. one with the stop block and one without) could be something where aligning it with the stop block is throwing something off.

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1054 days


#3 posted 09-10-2018 10:32 PM

How long is the square you are using? If you are only using a small square then the one corner could seem square as when it is really drifting by an amount too small for your square to see.

Try a test where you do the exact same cuts, but run the first cut side through a jointer first. Then use the square to measure the final corner. If it looks square this time then there’s your answer – i.e. it wasn’t a straight cut to begin with. Steve and EdDantes post would be a good place to see what’s causing it.

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12945 posts in 2944 days


#4 posted 09-10-2018 10:56 PM

No errors in procedure. Are you sweeping away the dust between cuts? Is there any slop in the miter gauge?

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View fuigb's profile

fuigb

565 posts in 3521 days


#5 posted 09-11-2018 12:05 AM

+1 to Ed. Something in the process isn’t consistent. Same tools/sleds should yield same results.

-- - Crud. Go tell your mother that I need a Band-aid.

View mIps's profile

mIps

200 posts in 2618 days


#6 posted 09-11-2018 04:48 AM

Thanks for the replies! Steve – I dont know if its new or I just now noticed it. I have checked the blade to be parallel to the miter slots and the fence to be parallel to the miter slots as best as I am able to. First short end cut free and second with a stop block.

Ed – First short end cut free and second with a stop block using the miter gauge that I squared to the blade. Sadly, I only noticed this after I’d finished so I am not 100% sure if its the free cut end or the stop block end that’s off.

Lumbering – The square I checked with to square everything was a framing square. the square I used to check the ends was a 4” and the one one end is very obviously off. A good 1/8” over 4”. Sadly no working jointer.

Woodknack – Yes to the dust and no to the miter gauge.

Fuigb – I agree.

-- Be honest, honorable, kind, work hard, and generally be awesome.

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12945 posts in 2944 days


#7 posted 09-11-2018 06:39 AM

Might also check if the cuts are square to the face and if the bad cut is straight. The only time I’ve had this happen on one end, the stop block was flexing or moving during the cut.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View lumbering_on's profile

lumbering_on

578 posts in 1054 days


#8 posted 09-11-2018 12:16 PM

An 1/8 of over 4”” wouldn’t be due to just having the first edge off a tiny amount.

I agree with Woodknack about the stop block, as it seems to be the only thing you did different between the first two cuts.

View mIps's profile

mIps

200 posts in 2618 days


#9 posted 09-13-2018 01:13 PM

Yeah, I need to go through the process, numbering the cuts and checking as I go. Hopefully this weekend.

Thanks again.

-- Be honest, honorable, kind, work hard, and generally be awesome.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

1447 posts in 1380 days


#10 posted 09-13-2018 02:13 PM

There is too much possibility for variation using the stock miter gauge for crosscuts on a table saw. Also, you should square the miter gauge to the miter slot, not the blade. If you will make and use a precision crosscut sled, you will never see that problem again.

View Rich's profile

Rich

5001 posts in 1153 days


#11 posted 09-13-2018 02:19 PM

Actually, regardless of whether it’s a miter gauge, sled, or even your chop saw, you should do the 5-cut method to set squareness.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3571 posts in 2045 days


#12 posted 09-13-2018 03:22 PM

Always make your crosscut registering the same edge against the miter fence.

Are you using a splitter?

How long are the drawer sides and how far out of square are we talking about?

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Rich's profile

Rich

5001 posts in 1153 days


#13 posted 09-13-2018 03:34 PM


Always make your crosscut registering the same edge against the miter fence.

Are you using a splitter?

How long are the drawer sides and how far out of square are we talking about?

- rwe2156

If the long edges are parallel, it doesn’t matter which one you use for the cross cut. Also, he answered your how far question in post #6.

View mIps's profile

mIps

200 posts in 2618 days


#14 posted 09-23-2018 10:46 PM

Thanks again for replies!
ArtMann – everything, table (miter slots) rip fence and miter gauge were all squared to the blade to the best of my abilities to do so. I agree with the crosscut sled. I need to put one together.

rwe2156 – not sure I follow. one long edge was cut to make it neat (the original cut was a little rough) and he second long edge was cut with the first against the rip fence. for the short-edge cross-cuts, I did register the same long edge against the miter gauge. Yes, using a riving knife. final size is 18” long by 4” wide and the the one end is off by about 1/8”.

-- Be honest, honorable, kind, work hard, and generally be awesome.

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

4199 posts in 1951 days


#15 posted 09-24-2018 12:24 PM

If it is the width that is off by 1/8th at one end, your problem is the rip cuts. It could be the fence is not parallel to the blade or you are doing something during the cut and it’s not staying flat against the fence. It could also be that your first cut to true up the sides is not resulting in a truly straight cut and you are winding up with a bow or some other irregularity. Lay a board on edge on your table saw and see if it rocks or you can see light under it somewhere along its length. If you don’t start with a straight edge (factory edge on PW or off of a jointer for example), unless your fence is long enough so that the board is in contact with the fence through the entire cut,( unlikely on most home or contractor saws and 18” boards) you will have to take special steps to get your first edge perfectly straight.

If the edges of the boards are truly straight and width of the board is consistent along its length you need to check your miter gauge: Use a square to mark a square line near one end of a board about 4” wide with a truly straight edge. It just needs to be long enough to cut it safely using the miter gauge. With your miter set at 90°, cut as close to the line as you can without removing the line. If you wind up removing part of the line or deviating from the line at the end of the cut, you need to adjust your miter gauge. Better yet make yourself a cross cut sled. Everyone should have an good CC sled.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3571 posts in 2045 days


#16 posted 09-24-2018 02:04 PM



rwe2156 – not sure I follow. one long edge was cut to make it neat (the original cut was a little rough) and he second long edge was cut with the first against the rip fence. for the short-edge cross-cuts, I did register the same long edge against the miter gauge. Yes, using a riving knife. final size is 18” long by 4” wide and the the one end is off by about 1/8”.

- mIps

You need to adjust the fence that’s the only way I know this can happen.

Raise blade to maximum. Measure tooth to fence distance. Use the same tooth front and rear.

Set the fence so the rear distance is .003” wider than front.

That should solve the issue.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1635 posts in 2294 days


#17 posted 09-24-2018 04:27 PM

I usually check my squareness when using using the miter guide by getting a board about 18” long, set it up against the miter guide with about 8 5/8” hanging over each side of the slide bar, then bring it back to the front edge of the saw table. It should be in alignment with the front edge of the table. If not, adjust until it’s even. When you get it square, each cut is going to be square, unless you get sloppy and let something come in contact between the wood and guide.

Next, set up a stop block, or relief block on your fence for indexing the length of each piece. Make the first cut on all with the miter guide on the left side of the blade, then move the miter guide to the other slot, and check to make sure it’s square. If it is, then put the first cut end against the stop block attached to the fence, and proceed to cut the uncut ends to proper length. Both ends should be square. Measure diagonally from apposing corners the see if it is square. Your numbers should be the same. If they are, square up your square. ................. Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

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