LumberJocks

All Replies on Untinted Paint Test

  • Advertise with us
View bilyo's profile

Untinted Paint Test

by bilyo
posted 09-07-2018 10:16 PM


12 replies so far

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

1828 posts in 551 days


#1 posted 09-08-2018 01:09 AM

Bil – I called Benjamin Moore and Sherwin-Williams tech departments
about this very subject just last week. both companies do NOT recommend
using just the untinted paint for any projects. plus, both of them said
they do not have any feedback of anyone using the untinted paint for a clear coat.
they highly recommended a good quality Spar Varnish with UV inhibitors for the clear.
I have been using both brands of paints for many, many years and was very
skeptical (and still am) about using untinted paint as a clear coat for anything.
thank you for your time and effort in the test.

and for those that have claimed “positive results”, they have yet to post any photos
or provided any documentation between “day one” and “two years later”.

-- Failure is proof that you at least tried ~ now, go do it again, and again, until you get it right --

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

694 posts in 1490 days


#2 posted 09-08-2018 03:33 AM

I too was skeptical, but at the same time rather excited about the possibility because of the positive reports you can find on the web. Most store sales people, as you know, are not even aware that the untinted paint will go on clear. And, as you point out, I’ve not found anyone that provides any evidence that it works beyond being clear. Anyway,, I decided to prove it, at least to myself, one way or the other. I will likely try it again with a house trim paint next summer. What I used this time was a general purpose interior/exterior oil base paint. Maybe there is a difference. We’ll see. Maybe this will help put the issue to rest one way or the other.
Thanks for your reply.

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

4479 posts in 977 days


#3 posted 09-08-2018 05:15 AM


Bil – I called Benjamin Moore and Sherwin-Williams tech departments
about this very subject just last week.

- John Smith

You’ve had product tech support blow smoke up your rear before. If you’ll recall this thread.

“I called the DAP technical rep last month about the formaldehyde issue and the guy said that NONE of DAP products contain formaldehyde – at all. so I know this to be a true and verified fact.”

When, in fact, This is from the SDS on the DAP web site:

You never did respond, but clearly, either tech support lied, or you were making things up.

Respond now, or stop being the “I called tech support” so-called expert.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12803 posts in 2768 days


#4 posted 09-08-2018 06:00 AM

The best long term protection against UV is pigment so it wouldn’t surprise me that an untinted base would perform poorly against sun damage.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5541 posts in 2881 days


#5 posted 09-08-2018 10:45 AM

You didn’t mention what brand that was, I’d be interested since I’m one of the proponents that hasn’t posted pictures of my success. ( I seem to remember an earlier post by you (?) about doing this test, maybe you mentioned the brand in that one). As for info from the tech departments mentioned above, well…I’m skeptical of such replies. I haven’t posted pics because I don’t have any, not much to see when the finish works well and protects the wood.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

1381 posts in 1204 days


#6 posted 09-08-2018 01:01 PM

Several years ago, I bought Minwax Spar Varnish to finish a pair of cypress Adirondack chairs I built. After six months, the finish looked very much like the pictures in the original post. Within a year, the coating was flaking off in large areas. These chairs were on a shady North facing front porch and were sheltered from all but the strongest blowing rain storms. I’m posting this to warn people that cheap spar varnish will quite likely disappoint.

I have serous doubts that any brand of untinted house paint will provide a satisfactory clear coat for years in the weather. If such a material worked well, paint companies would market it for that purpose.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

694 posts in 1490 days


#7 posted 09-08-2018 02:35 PM


You didn t mention what brand that was, I d be interested since I m one of the proponents that hasn t posted pictures of my success. ( I seem to remember an earlier post by you (?) about doing this test, maybe you mentioned the brand in that one). As for info from the tech departments mentioned above, well…I m skeptical of such replies. I haven t posted pics because I don t have any, not much to see when the finish works well and protects the wood.

- Fred Hargis

I may have mentioned the brand in my previous post. I don’t remember. But this was not a particularly scientific test as it only includes one brand and type of paint under one set of conditions. I hate to bash a single company on that basis. Have you had success with this application? If you don’t mind doing so, it might be useful if you could repeat your results hear or point to your posting.

I have serous doubts that any brand of untinted house paint will provide a satisfactory clear coat for years in the weather. If such a material worked well, paint companies would market it for that purpose.

- ArtMann

That is (too) logical. ;>) And, I tend to agree. However, finding articles on the web touting success, I felt the need to prove it to my satisfaction. If it were to work (surprise!), it would not be the first time that something worked for a purpose for which it was not designed. I think it is worth doing a little experimenting.

The first article I found on the subject some time ago was by Steve Krull. The web site “can’t be found” now. But it was reprinted in FWW here.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5541 posts in 2881 days


#8 posted 09-08-2018 03:18 PM

I have used both the Olympic exterior oil (they call theirs Base 5) and, more recently, the SW All Surface Enamel exterior with very good results. The Olympic lasted for about 5 years on some outdoor trim and showed no signs of aging, flaking, or deterioration at the time we sold that house. However, my source for the Olymic oil paints dried up (Lowes) so I had to switch to the SW brand. My experience to it is limited to about 2 years so far, but it is doing well. With the disappearance of oil paints in some areas, some have tried the acrylic exterior deep base with no int, and I’ve seen at least one good result (with pictures) that it does well. In this case it was a cross built out of walnut and put up outdoors; at this point it’s been there for 2 years and held up well. That article was authored by a fellow named Jim Kull (Steve was a buddy of his, Steve Mickley). It was published in Wood magazine (issue 149 or 150, I think) and was the first time I had heard of it, and why I tried it. I applaud your effort, and your reason for not mentioning the brand. However, I have a couple of the untinted bases on hand and may do a test of my own so I’ll have pictures for those who think it proves the point. Like anything, not every brand/formula is going to work the same….it would be useful to know if specific brands don’t (or do) perform as expected.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

694 posts in 1490 days


#9 posted 09-08-2018 06:50 PM

Interesting. My failure photos above are of the same SW All Surface enamel that you used. There apparently are some other factors involved; I’m thinking maybe climate/latitude to begin with. You are in Ohio. I’m in Mobile, Alabama. Also, my test panel was on the roof at almost a 45 degree angle facing SE. So, it was getting direct sun from morning to late afternoon every day. Not sure if that made for more severe exposure or not.

View tomsteve's profile

tomsteve

949 posts in 1607 days


#10 posted 09-09-2018 05:15 PM

it would be interesting to see what a latex/acrylic would do.
that piece shows signs of failure due to expansion and contraction.were all 6 sides of the board coated?

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5541 posts in 2881 days


#11 posted 09-09-2018 05:51 PM

I agree. I think I’ll pick up some and try it as well. I have seen at least one post that indicated it (the acrylic) does work.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

694 posts in 1490 days


#12 posted 09-09-2018 07:31 PM


it would be interesting to see what a latex/acrylic would do.
that piece shows signs of failure due to expansion and contraction.were all 6 sides of the board coated?

- tomsteve


Yes. All sides had 3 coats. And, the exposed surface is the only one that looks like the photos. The back and edges look pretty much as they did after painting. I won’t argue with the expansion/contraction theory. However, during the summer here, the ambient temp difference between night and day is not much. The night/day changes might be more extreme when considering the “cooking” due to the direct suns rays. Ordinary paint would undergo the same extreme, but might shield the wood underneath. I think my next test will include the tinted paint along side the untinted.

I re-read the Jim Krull article and he said that the acrylic paint base did not do as well in his test.

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com