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Table Saw question

by AZICURN
posted 08-23-2018 12:14 PM


19 replies so far

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1583 posts in 3516 days


#1 posted 08-23-2018 12:44 PM

seems hi to me for that saw. They may have put that as a starting point. That’s a hybrid saw, I’d go 300 tops. If you want an upgrade and can afford that wait for a true CS.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View AZICURN's profile

AZICURN

7 posts in 362 days


#2 posted 08-23-2018 01:23 PM

That’s what I was thinking. What kind of CS should I look for? There’s a Grizzly that’s not too far away, but it’s a right-tilt. I don’t know how I feel about that.

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1583 posts in 3516 days


#3 posted 08-23-2018 02:11 PM

I had a griz for 10 years no issue. I had the left tilt. I prefer my blade tilting away from the fence. I paid 1500 for mine new (1023slx) and got 800 used. I have a sawstop now, and to be honest only upgraded to get 5hp and safety.

If it were me, I’d look for an old delta and they come up from time to time. The old ones could have to have bearings replaced, which is not too awful bad. I’d get a magnetic base with dial indicator to test arbor. It should not be sloppy. If so, good bargaining point.

I’d also do the nickle test. Stand a nickle on edge and you can start the saw and it does not fall and cut it off and it does not fall when it spends down, it’s good.

If you can do a CS with 3hp min, (assuming you can do 220v). If you can do 600-800 you will have a lot more options, but have seen some deals if you can be patient.. Good luck! Cheers!

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View DBDesigns's profile

DBDesigns

224 posts in 447 days


#4 posted 08-23-2018 03:11 PM

That picture is a Jet Supersaw. I have been using one for about ten years with mixed results. First, let me say this. the saw was about $900 new. It has a 1.5 horsepower motor that is single phase and runs on 120. The original table components are cast iron.

The saw performs very well when it is running. Although it is slightly under-powered. There are, however built in engineering flaws with the blade raising mechanism. The mechanism is belt drive and it is ornery like a scorned woman. (See my original forum post about it for more information.) If I had it to do over again, I would have spent the extra money on a new Delta Unisaw and never worried about it again.

If I was in your position, I would be looking for an old Delta and I would be willing to do what it takes to soup it up because it can truly be the center of a fine wood shop.

Good luck with your search.

-- I remember when Grateful wasn't Dead

View Bill_Steele's profile

Bill_Steele

536 posts in 2181 days


#5 posted 08-23-2018 03:25 PM

I think Jet is a decent brand. I have a Jet contractor saw that is over 20 years old and it still works great. Other good brands are Powermatic, Delta, Grizzly, General, etc.

I would suggest getting something with at least a 30” rip capacity. Check the fence to ensure that it slides easily and locks securely. How much does it deflect when locked?

More weight is a good thing with a table saw. A cast iron table helps here and cast iron wings are a plus but stamped steel is also fine. Check the table top with a straight edge to see if it is concave/convex. I would steer clear of the wings that are a lattice of steel—I would think it would be easy to get pinched.

The “nickel” test is good for a saw that is completely sorted out—but the price may be a little higher. Perhaps you can get a deal on something that needs a little TLC and won’t pass the nickel test right now. It’s not difficult to tune up the saw. Here’s an article that talks about applying a new link-belt and machined pulleys. I would also suggest looking into getting a set of PALS. Another useful tool is a micrometer and jig that you can use to check blade to slot parallelism and blade to fence parallelism. Many of these jigs can also be used to check bearing run-out on the arbor. If you get this tool bring it with you when you check out a saw and see if there is bearing run-out.

Hope this helps.

View AZICURN's profile

AZICURN

7 posts in 362 days


#6 posted 08-23-2018 03:38 PM

Thanks Bill.

I had never heard of the nickel test until today. My current saw would fail that immediately.
I have been doing alot of research and scouring Craigslist, Offerup, and Facebook marketplace. I would like a cabinet saw, but when I think about the space that I have, I don’t know that I can justify it. I think I should stick with the contractor/hybrid type for at least the portability within the garage (I have a CNC…)

What do you think about the Rigid 4512. For what I was looking to spend, I can nearly buy one of those new (especially if I can get HD to take a HF coupon.)

Alternatively, there’s a Craftsman 315 with a ShopFOX fence and Router Table extension wing about 90 miles away for 400$. But I’ve read about issues with reliability on Craftsman saws.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1938 posts in 1053 days


#7 posted 08-23-2018 03:48 PM

Welcome to lj’s AZICURN. If you’re not in a rush I think you can find a great deal on CL or OfferUp in the $300 range. What you are striving for is the lumberjocks “YOU SUCK” label which is only bestowed upon people skilled and lucky enough to find the deal of a lifetime on a used piece of equipment.

Recent examples here and here. A local member bought that saw and re-listed it the same day and sold it for $450 without ever unloading it from his truck.

Be patient and happy hunting.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View AZICURN's profile

AZICURN

7 posts in 362 days


#8 posted 08-23-2018 03:50 PM

Lol, yes. I want that! And thanks for the welcome.

View Bill_Steele's profile

Bill_Steele

536 posts in 2181 days


#9 posted 08-23-2018 03:57 PM

I don’t have experience with either of those saws. I noticed there are alot of reviews of the Rigid 4512 on this website—check them out.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1938 posts in 1053 days


#10 posted 08-23-2018 04:01 PM

And don’t forget rule #5.

Rule No. 5: In the time between finding a machine and asking others if you should buy it someone else will come to the proper conclusion.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8302 posts in 3825 days


#11 posted 08-23-2018 04:29 PM

That Jet does have solid cast wings, but seems a bit steep for a saw with that particular Microglide fence, if that’s what it is….not sure if a router is included. It looks like an older Proshop model, but gives no info at all. You could always make an offer if it checks out…asking price and selling price are often different.

Here are a few others I spotted in Phoenix that might be worth a look:

Ridgid 3650 ($400) – https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/tls/d/rigid-table-saw/6667408732.html
Ridgid 3650 ($300) – https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/tls/d/ridgid-table-saw/6677051915.html

Powermatic PM64a ($600) – https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/tls/d/table-saw/6630237543.html

Craftsman w/Delta T2 fence ($400) – https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/tls/d/craftsman-table-saw-with/6641825340.html

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View AZICURN's profile

AZICURN

7 posts in 362 days


#12 posted 08-23-2018 05:24 PM

Thanks Knotscott,

I had looked at all those. The Powermatic is nice but a bit over my budget. I liked the Rigid, but no riving knife made me nervous. I initially dismissed the Craftsman, but it sounds like it might be worth looking at. It’s a bit of a drive, I talked with the guy and I’ll go look at it Friday. I really like the fence and the left wing is a router insert. I see a few hole patterns on there. I’m hoping that it might fit my PC base. That rolling stand seems kinda short though.

View AZICURN's profile

AZICURN

7 posts in 362 days


#13 posted 08-23-2018 05:57 PM

Sorry for the repetitive questions… What do you think of this saw? I’m going to see it today. He said he was negotiable on the price—he’s asking 450. I like the Delta Unifence.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3470 posts in 1930 days


#14 posted 08-23-2018 06:16 PM

Its a tough decision when you don’t know exactly what you want.

My suggestion is to shoot for a 3HP cabinet saw – Unisaw, Rockwell, Jet, Grizzly. They can often be found in the $5-700 range. Be patient and keep looking.

Its personal preference and what kind of ww’ing you do as to how powerful a machine you need.

I would stay away from Craftsman, especially the older 70-80’s models,

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1938 posts in 1053 days


#15 posted 08-23-2018 06:26 PM

Unless you want a saw today…(and I know that feeling)...

Be patient and keep looking.
- rwe2156


Be patient and happy hunting.
- Andybb


i have been looking for a used unisaw for 6 months on craigslist for a year here in wi. most have been 800-1200 dollars. or 500 miles away. so yesterday wife and i went to an estate sale in lacross. lady said there s some tools in gaurage so off i went. junk everywhere, old lawn mowers rakes,standard stuff. so i saw some pipe clamps in the corner,picked up 2 and my mouth dropped open,there was a unifence leaning against the wall… i asked the 70 year old woman if she had the rest of the saw? she said it s over there covered up.have a look she said. pulled cover off and it was a 3 hp 34-802 in really pretty decent shape. asked how much would you take for it? she says 400 dollars. so off i went to u haul picked up a truck .took 3 of us to get it in the truck got it home and had to take it apart in truck to get it out by myself with a dolly. will post pictures when cleaned up. her neighbors were there helping her with her estate sale.so they helped with loading . i m really excited i got the saw so cheap.i m retired and spent all day cleaning it up by the part number it appears to be a 1992.

- ruger

Also consider where you’re going to put it. A full on cabinet saw can be a very heavy behemoth weighing 700 lbs. The motor alone could be 60-70 lbs.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View AZICURN's profile

AZICURN

7 posts in 362 days


#16 posted 08-23-2018 06:58 PM

Thanks for the advice. I’m pretty sure anything will be a step up from what I have now, both capacity and quality. But like your story illustrates—something that I can’t easily move around the garage (accomadating kids’ bikes, toys, wife’s projects, etc.) isn’t going to work.

View DBDesigns's profile

DBDesigns

224 posts in 447 days


#17 posted 08-24-2018 12:51 PM

That saw has the potential to be a great one. You can always upgrade the motor since it is belt drive and you are right about the unifence being a nice perc. I would low ball him though because as you can see from the reaction of others, it’snot that popular of a saw.

-- I remember when Grateful wasn't Dead

View smitdog's profile

smitdog

436 posts in 2555 days


#18 posted 08-24-2018 01:14 PM

That Delta with the unifence would be a great saw for you. The stamped steel wing isn’t as desirable as cast iron but the extra long unifence more than makes up for that. I wouldn’t go over $400 myself for that one but it’s all about how soon you want a nicer saw :) I wouldn’t count out a cabinet saw, with a mobile base they actually take up similar or even less space than a contractor style saw since you don’t have a motor hanging off the back. This lets you put it right up against a wall while the contractor saw would stick out into the space more.

One thing to consider with that Delta, since you are needing portability then you will need a very large mobile base to accommodate that long fence and extension table. May not be very easy to maneuver that thing around the shop. That being said if you don’t need all that rip capacity you could swap out for a shorter rail and probably come out a little ahead.

-- Jarrett - Mount Vernon, Ohio

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

1623 posts in 1944 days


#19 posted 08-24-2018 03:49 PM

AZICURN – Everyone upgrading from a job site saw has same issues.
Suggest there is really only THREE decisions you need to make:

1) Is riving knife absolute must have?

2) Do yo have 240VAC in shop, or are you willing to add it?

3) Is your budget $250-350, $500-$600, or more?

#1 – If you must have riving knife on your next saw, then you are limited to buying a saw less than 6-8 years old. This greatly increases the cost you can expect to spend. Unless you find a huge deal, most of these newer saws are selling on CL for 70-80% of retail price, which is many times more than what an old working cabinet saw will cost (and more than your estimated budget)

#2 – Unless yo have access to 240VAC (don’t forget dryer plug trick), you are limited to buying a saw with less than 2Hp motor that runs on a 120VAC 20A circuit (1.5HP runs on 15A circuit). This limits you to saws like the Jet above, or one of the various contractor grade saws from Delta, Ridgid, Craftsmen, etc. You occasionally will be able to find an antique Unisaw with old 1.5HP bullet motor, but one only shows up a couple times a year. Yes, these less than 2HP saws are considered under-powered when compared to 3-5HP cabinet saw, but they work great in home shop.

#3 – PHX is flush with 2nd hand saws. We get a tremendous amount of turn over as people retire here with equipment, and then upgrade over time. With a couple of months of patience, you can find anything you want. Some budget guidelines, based on my CL shopping:

For less than $150, you can find many abandoned contractor saws that need some TLC, and can be easily returned to service with some work, and few accessories. Example – missing riving knife, can easily be substituted with Micro-jig splinter insert.

For less than $350, you can pick up gently used contractor saws ready to work loaded with accessories, might even find one with upgraded fence. That Delta contractor saw listed above with Bies fence is only slightly over priced, IMHO. My one owner Ridgid with all extras is going on CL as soon as I finish new router cabinet assembly to mount on a Unisaw upgrade I bought last spring.

For ~$500, you can find larger 240VAC cabinet saws that need some work. Older left tilt Unisaw with old tube fence in perfect working order sell in this range as well. You are not going to find many cabinet saws for less than $500, unless you get really lucky and beat out the folks who buy and refurb Unisaw as a hobby here in AZ, and are willing to fix up a rusty pile of metal.

For less than $750, you can find a working Unisaw or one of clone (Grizzly, General, Woodtek) cabinet saws, ready to be put to work. All of these should have a decent Unifence, or Bies type fence.

Hardest part about CL used wood working tools in PHX area is this: DEMAND.

There are many of us wood workers in AZ, and we ALL have alerts set on CL for things we want, or things we know that we can buy cheap, fix up, and re-sell. I have been watching and participating of this CL ‘dance’ for over 10 years. So ANY wood working tool with cheap price is gone in less than 24 hours!! If you see a wood working tool listed on CL that lasts more than 3-4 days, it is likely fair price waiting for new owner or needs some fix up to make it worth the asking price. If you see a wood working tool listed over a week, it is typically over priced for general market, and/or owner is willing to wait for some one who needs a working tool yesterday.
Should also add that PHX CL has cycles. In late spring, all snow birds sell excess tools before they leave. During summer when it is too hot to work wood outside, CL activity is slow and listings can sit longer. In fall when snow birds return, demand is very high and cheap tools sell in less than 30 minutes after a listing is posted (thanks to email alerts).

Best Luck.

PS – Feel free to send me a PM if you want to discuss any of this in detail.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

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