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View SweetTea's profile (online now)

Options for dealing with 3 phase wide belt sander

by SweetTea
posted 08-22-2018 10:36 AM


21 replies so far

View Fresch's profile

Fresch

441 posts in 2369 days


#1 posted 08-22-2018 01:51 PM

10HP single phase 1750 rpm with a metric frame. Copy that and google box it, ~$700

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1333 posts in 2400 days


#2 posted 08-22-2018 01:56 PM

It looks like you are into some very serious machinery and it is likely that there will be more three phase motors in you r future. Is it possible to have three phase power run to the new shop at a reasonable cost?

View SweetTea's profile (online now)

SweetTea

445 posts in 1108 days


#3 posted 08-22-2018 03:31 PM



It looks like you are into some very serious machinery and it is likely that there will be more three phase motors in you r future. Is it possible to have three phase power run to the new shop at a reasonable cost?

- Kazooman

No, I checked and the cost was more than I am willing to invest. I do have a large shop and many machines. But only one of them is 3 phase and I don’t see myself adding any more 3 phase equipment or any other equipment period. My shop already has 30+ machinery.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

1456 posts in 1672 days


#4 posted 08-22-2018 04:14 PM

A wide belt sander is way more than just a motor when it comes to the power usage.
There are many switches and sensors that are also fed from the power source so even if you change the motor, there’s no guarantee that the machine will even start up.

There are air pressure sensors that will not even let the machine start if there’s no air pressure and if the power for that comes from the leg that’s not connected to the wall, you’re not going to have a functioning machine.

View Fresch's profile

Fresch

441 posts in 2369 days


#5 posted 08-22-2018 05:11 PM

The control circuit can be fixed.

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3769 days


#6 posted 08-23-2018 12:46 AM

If you don’t plan to go the RPC route just get in touch with Jack Forsberg, he is active on many of the forums under his own name, and buy a VFD to run it. He is the man for quality/price and in particular 1ph in 3ph out VFDs for higher horsepower machines.

View Scap's profile

Scap

78 posts in 375 days


#7 posted 08-23-2018 01:37 AM



If you don t plan to go the RPC route just get in touch with Jack Forsberg, he is active on many of the forums under his own name, and buy a VFD to run it. He is the man for quality/price and in particular 1ph in 3ph out VFDs for higher horsepower machines.

- AHuxley

Definitely this. ^^^
VFD technology is like magic sometimes.
I sold a three phase wall fan to a single phase customer, and we had to source one of these drives. It worked like a champ!

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10858 posts in 1934 days


#8 posted 08-23-2018 01:49 AM

Like woody said. A VFD is good for one motor. Controls would have to be rewired as well.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3769 days


#9 posted 08-23-2018 02:28 AM



Like woody said. A VFD is good for one motor. Controls would have to be rewired as well.

- TheFridge

To use the VFD you will need to wire around the starter and any e-stops in place, but if you stick with 60hz any other secondary electrics should work fine. Any e-stops can be wired into the low voltage accessory circuit of the VFD so they will work as before. The economics all depends on whether the OP does indeed not acquire any more 3ph machines or possibly lucks into a used motor/starter that will work.

View SweetTea's profile (online now)

SweetTea

445 posts in 1108 days


#10 posted 08-23-2018 04:39 PM


Like woody said. A VFD is good for one motor. Controls would have to be rewired as well.

- TheFridge

To use the VFD you will need to wire around the starter and any e-stops in place, but if you stick with 60hz any other secondary electrics should work fine. Any e-stops can be wired into the low voltage accessory circuit of the VFD so they will work as before. The economics all depends on whether the OP does indeed not acquire any more 3ph machines or possibly lucks into a used motor/starter that will work.

- AHuxley


If you don t plan to go the RPC route just get in touch with Jack Forsberg, he is active on many of the forums under his own name, and buy a VFD to run it. He is the man for quality/price and in particular 1ph in 3ph out VFDs for higher horsepower machines.

- AHuxley

If you don t plan to go the RPC route just get in touch with Jack Forsberg, he is active on many of the forums under his own name, and buy a VFD to run it. He is the man for quality/price and in particular 1ph in 3ph out VFDs for higher horsepower machines.

- AHuxley

Definitely this. ^^^
VFD technology is like magic sometimes.
I sold a three phase wall fan to a single phase customer, and we had to source one of these drives. It worked like a champ!

- Scap

Do they make VFD’s for 10HP motors that don’t cost thousands of dollars? I looked into an RPC but it was $1,600. I could get a factory new motor intended for my specific machine for under $1,500.

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3769 days


#11 posted 08-23-2018 04:56 PM


Like woody said. A VFD is good for one motor. Controls would have to be rewired as well.

- TheFridge

To use the VFD you will need to wire around the starter and any e-stops in place, but if you stick with 60hz any other secondary electrics should work fine. Any e-stops can be wired into the low voltage accessory circuit of the VFD so they will work as before. The economics all depends on whether the OP does indeed not acquire any more 3ph machines or possibly lucks into a used motor/starter that will work.

- AHuxley

If you don t plan to go the RPC route just get in touch with Jack Forsberg, he is active on many of the forums under his own name, and buy a VFD to run it. He is the man for quality/price and in particular 1ph in 3ph out VFDs for higher horsepower machines.

- AHuxley

If you don t plan to go the RPC route just get in touch with Jack Forsberg, he is active on many of the forums under his own name, and buy a VFD to run it. He is the man for quality/price and in particular 1ph in 3ph out VFDs for higher horsepower machines.

- AHuxley

Definitely this. ^^^
VFD technology is like magic sometimes.
I sold a three phase wall fan to a single phase customer, and we had to source one of these drives. It worked like a champ!

- Scap

Do they make VFD’s for 10HP motors that don’t cost thousands of dollars? I looked into an RPC but it was $1,600. I could get a factory new motor intended for my specific machine for under $1,500.

- SweetTea

Yes, that is why I said to reach out to Jack. High output 1ph in 3ph out VFDs are a niche product and Jack has custom versions up to 25hp. Just look for him on SMC, OWWM etc.

View SweetTea's profile (online now)

SweetTea

445 posts in 1108 days


#12 posted 08-24-2018 01:01 AM


Like woody said. A VFD is good for one motor. Controls would have to be rewired as well.

- TheFridge

To use the VFD you will need to wire around the starter and any e-stops in place, but if you stick with 60hz any other secondary electrics should work fine. Any e-stops can be wired into the low voltage accessory circuit of the VFD so they will work as before. The economics all depends on whether the OP does indeed not acquire any more 3ph machines or possibly lucks into a used motor/starter that will work.

- AHuxley

If you don t plan to go the RPC route just get in touch with Jack Forsberg, he is active on many of the forums under his own name, and buy a VFD to run it. He is the man for quality/price and in particular 1ph in 3ph out VFDs for higher horsepower machines.

- AHuxley

If you don t plan to go the RPC route just get in touch with Jack Forsberg, he is active on many of the forums under his own name, and buy a VFD to run it. He is the man for quality/price and in particular 1ph in 3ph out VFDs for higher horsepower machines.

- AHuxley

Definitely this. ^^^
VFD technology is like magic sometimes.
I sold a three phase wall fan to a single phase customer, and we had to source one of these drives. It worked like a champ!

- Scap

Do they make VFD’s for 10HP motors that don’t cost thousands of dollars? I looked into an RPC but it was $1,600. I could get a factory new motor intended for my specific machine for under $1,500.

- SweetTea

Yes, that is why I said to reach out to Jack. High output 1ph in 3ph out VFDs are a niche product and Jack has custom versions up to 25hp. Just look for him on SMC, OWWM etc.

- AHuxley

Can someone send me Jacks contact info?

View Combo Prof's profile

Combo Prof

3866 posts in 1725 days


#13 posted 08-24-2018 01:17 AM

Do they make VFD’s for 10HP motors that don’t cost thousands of dollars? I looked into an RPC but it was $1,600. I could get a factory new motor intended for my specific machine for under $1,500.

- SweetTea

Yes, see factorymation looks like you can get one for $550.

-- Don K, (Holland, Michigan)

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3769 days


#14 posted 08-24-2018 02:39 AM


Yes, see factorymation looks like you can get one for $550.

- Combo Prof

Sorry, but that won’t work for the OP, that is a 3ph in 3ph out drive. The OP needs a 1ph in 3ph out drive which like I said is a niche product when you need over 5hp.

I don’t have Jack’s email, I always talk to him via PM and via forum but he is registered under his name at SMC and OWWM.

View SweetTea's profile (online now)

SweetTea

445 posts in 1108 days


#15 posted 08-24-2018 01:20 PM


Do they make VFD’s for 10HP motors that don’t cost thousands of dollars? I looked into an RPC but it was $1,600. I could get a factory new motor intended for my specific machine for under $1,500.

- SweetTea

Yes, see factorymation looks like you can get one for $550.

- Combo Prof

Yes, see factorymation looks like you can get one for $550.

- Combo Prof

Sorry, but that won t work for the OP, that is a 3ph in 3ph out drive. The OP needs a 1ph in 3ph out drive which like I said is a niche product when you need over 5hp.

I don t have Jack s email, I always talk to him via PM and via forum but he is registered under his name at SMC and OWWM.

- AHuxley

Tried registering on SawMillCreek but it kept saying my user name was already taken or did not work (I tried dozens). Anyone have this man’s contact info??

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

1456 posts in 1672 days


#16 posted 08-24-2018 06:09 PM

Ask him if he has experience with phase converters with a wide belt sander. I do remember now someone mentioning here that some wide belts have issues playing well with a phase converter. Even if the motor will run, the electronics might be the issue.

Honestly, unless you plan on getting three phase later on, you might want to check what it would cost to change the circuit board and anything else to single phase also. At least that way you know that wherever you move you can use it and if you resell it, that might actually give you a leg up on the resale market. Most people do not get wide belt sanders for shops because they are almost always 3 phase only.

View SweetTea's profile (online now)

SweetTea

445 posts in 1108 days


#17 posted 08-25-2018 10:47 AM



A wide belt sander is way more than just a motor when it comes to the power usage.
There are many switches and sensors that are also fed from the power source so even if you change the motor, there s no guarantee that the machine will even start up.

There are air pressure sensors that will not even let the machine start if there s no air pressure and if the power for that comes from the leg that s not connected to the wall, you re not going to have a functioning machine.

- AZWoody

Ok I spoke to Jack yesterday afternoon and am planing on buying a 10HP VFD from him soon. The price is not cheap but it is my cheapest option at around $750 for the VFD itself and roughly $70-$100 import duties/shipping from Canada.

Can you explain a little more about how I would get the other aspects of the machine to work with my VFD? The sensors and air controls and such? Would buying this VFD not eliminate this issue? I know that I will probably have to buy a smaller VFD for the conveyer motor. Will everything work in this manor?

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

1456 posts in 1672 days


#18 posted 08-26-2018 05:37 PM

I don’t know about how it would work with a vfd honestly, I have 3 phase in my shop and I just have read where someone said it could cause issues.

I also would think you would take the main plug into the machine and plug that into the vfd and not the motor separately and then a vfd for the feed roller and then a vfd for the electronics.

Everything has to work together to make it work. The electronics have to control the feed rate and the main drive motor and if you take each one and use a vfd I don’t see how everything would work correctly.

View Bill1974's profile

Bill1974

131 posts in 3433 days


#19 posted 08-27-2018 05:38 PM

You don’t need a fancy VFD, you just need one that a half way decent stepped SIN wave. As long as there are no digital electronics or transformers in the machine you should be fine. If there are digital electronics a true sign wave vfd or rpc is you best bet.

How are the speed of the feed and belt speed controlled? and any other motors in it? You may need to do some rewiring to have a vfd control each function. I don’t think running a vfd from another vfd is a good practice (just a guess).

Is the machine meant to run on 50Hz and/or 60Hz? if so a VFD is an option.

View mpsprunger's profile

mpsprunger

33 posts in 2309 days


#20 posted 08-27-2018 08:16 PM

your three phase sander has a belt motor as well, it is more than likely 3 ph as well. You can built a 3 phase inverter, w/ a 10 hp 3 phase motor and some start and run capacitors. The other electronics in the control circuit are either 24 volt dc or 100 volt as. I’m not familiar w/ that brand sander. The Japanese, or Asian brand of machine like to reduce the AC in thur a step-down transformer. Is your sander 220- 440 volt?

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

5817 posts in 2169 days


#21 posted 08-27-2018 08:48 PM

Another option of you don’t need the full 10hp at your disposal would be a 2pole (~ 3600rpm) 7.5hp motor for around $500 plus a new drive sheave and appropriately sized belts to keep the sanding belt at the proper speed. A $100 VFD could be used to control the feed motor and the rest of the electronics are either 120VAC or 24VDC and can be rewired as needed. Most step down control transformers have multiple taps and are only pulling from two legs of the incoming 3ph power, since you’ll have two legs with 1ph it won’t be a problem (but won’t necessarily be easy) to rewire it to maintain function of all the controls.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

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