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All Replies on Powermatic 66 table saw 5hp 1 phase On/Off

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Powermatic 66 table saw 5hp 1 phase On/Off

by username
posted 08-11-2018 09:44 PM


28 replies so far

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

3072 posts in 2537 days


#1 posted 08-11-2018 11:43 PM

Sounds very dangerous. I would guess a defective switch. Is it a magnetic switch?

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View BurlyBob's profile

BurlyBob

6516 posts in 2778 days


#2 posted 08-12-2018 02:01 AM

I agree. Sounds like you need a whole new switch setup. I truly envy you finding a T66. My dream table saw.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7480 posts in 2711 days


#3 posted 08-12-2018 03:31 AM

My thought it is setup not to utilize the push buttons, is there a simple diagram that shows the different configurations of this panel?
- username

It sounds like it’s been wired to keep the solenoid in the starter energized continuously – which could be used in conjunction with some external switches; but that is certainly not typical or recommended. Is this a new to you machine? Did it work properly before and if so, what changed? There should be a block wiring diagram on the inside cover of the starter. If not, let us know the make/mfg of the starter and maybe someone can pull something up for you.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View username's profile

username

12 posts in 436 days


#4 posted 08-12-2018 05:19 AM

Thanks for all of the replies so far. This is new to me but far from being brand new.

I am attaching a few more pics, I didn’t think to look at the backside of the front panel when I opened it to take the internal pics. It looks like there are switch configuration options (based on these new pics). If anyone has any experience or can interpret this diagram & explain which or what configuration my current wiring is I would be very grateful.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5718 posts in 3756 days


#5 posted 08-12-2018 11:05 PM

There is an electromagnet that pulls the contacts closed until the off button is pushed and then it de energizes. Sounds like the magnetic coil is open. A new magnetic starter is probably needed.

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username

12 posts in 436 days


#6 posted 08-15-2018 04:34 PM

Thanks again for the continued contributions.

I am going to approach this slightly different, I am hoping someone can label my pic with connection descriptions OR fill in the “Connect A to….” “Connect B to….” etc etc. The pics show how it is currently connected, but I am assuming it is not correct.

Connect A to
Connect B to
Connect C to
Connect D to
Connect E to
Connect F to
Connect G to

View username's profile

username

12 posts in 436 days


#7 posted 08-22-2018 01:18 PM

I spent time on the phone & a handful of emails with Powermatic, there isn’t a wire diagram available for this.
If anyone has a 5 hp Single phase, can you open your front switch panel and post a pic? I really just need to confirm the thin Red jumper wires.

Thanks

View Fresch's profile

Fresch

452 posts in 2433 days


#8 posted 08-22-2018 01:44 PM

See in your picture 3rd frame right side wiring diagram, point#3. The left side push button is the start, the right side is the stop, under the start see the open contact? When you push start the power flows through the stop to the coil of the starter, on the starter is that normally open contact (probably on on side or other) that has to close when the magnet pulls in the 240v power to the motor, when it closes it bypasses the on switch and keeps power flowing to the coil of the starter. See your “B” and “F” it looks like it should be wired “B” to “A”. Need a better picture.
But you can use a continuity tester/ohm meter and follow the wiring diagram with the he power off.

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username

12 posts in 436 days


#9 posted 08-22-2018 06:11 PM

Solved, cost = $0.00

Take jumper out of F, put into A.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 1998 days


#10 posted 08-23-2018 02:23 AM

Sweet

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View username's profile

username

12 posts in 436 days


#11 posted 01-11-2019 12:23 AM

I am hoping someone can help out on this one-

For a Baldor 5hp 1Ph- does anyone have a pic they can post of how their Start & Run Capacitors are hooked up? If you can note the Letters or Numbers on each wire, even better.

I will post more detail soon, but I wanted to get the SOS going ASAP.

Thanks

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

3072 posts in 2537 days


#12 posted 01-11-2019 01:03 AM

When I had a similar problem with a motor (in fact, I had blown the capacitor by mis-wiring it), I took it to a local motor shop, and they had a new cap installed in about 5 minutes, for a charge of $15. Well worth it. And they showed me how to wire it (numbered wires, like yours; I had never seen that before, being used to color coded wiring).

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View username's profile

username

12 posts in 436 days


#13 posted 01-14-2019 11:50 PM

I found the correct Baldor wiring diagram, this confirmed I had replaced & reconnected the capacitors correctly.

Using the wiring diagram, it was obvious that the manual reset button was bad. A new switch is on order. FYI, the button was not popped out.

When I opened up the motor I noticed the centrifugal switch had previous damage and had been repaired (w/ super glue), so I ordered a new one.

Opening up this motor & doing some basic wiring checks was a good learning experience. I am very surprised just how simple these motors are.

View ocean's profile

ocean

179 posts in 1345 days


#14 posted 01-15-2019 12:58 AM

Bunch of helpful people on this forum and with the internet – there isn’t much you can’t figure out.

-- Bob, FL Keys

View username's profile

username

12 posts in 436 days


#15 posted 01-25-2019 05:50 PM

Update-
I ordered the motor reset button, but the seller has not sent it & is not responding to any emails. So, back to trying to find a replacement button. A quick search reminded me that I couldn’t find one a week or so ago. Does anyone have a AC motor source? Or does anyone have an equivalent replacement part #?
Here is mine-

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7480 posts in 2711 days


#16 posted 01-25-2019 06:37 PM

It’s a bit hard following along with all of the problems you have had… but that appears to be a picture of a pretty standard Klixon phenolic motor protector that is typically found inside a thermally protected motor. BRJ30DB = 1-1/4” diameter round base with solder connectors and will trip @120°C +/- 5°C (the “30” is the heater size, and is based on motor current rating). It should not be that hard to find a replacement (you could start by contacting Sensata at the link above to see if they sell directly or will give you a list of distributors).

However – your starter also appears to have thermal overload protection, based on the picture of it and the wiring diagram you showed a few posts ago. If so, then you only need one or the other, not both. If the starter has the correct heater for the motor, then you can bypass the klixon in the motor. If not, then you could try to find the proper heater – or you can replace the Klixon in the motor and bypass the heater in your starter (just jumper it with a piece of wire).

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View username's profile

username

12 posts in 436 days


#17 posted 01-28-2019 07:13 PM



It s a bit hard following along with all of the problems you have had… but that appears to be a picture of a pretty standard Klixon phenolic motor protector that is typically found inside a thermally protected motor. BRJ30DB = 1-1/4” diameter round base with solder connectors and will trip @120°C +/- 5°C (the “30” is the heater size, and is based on motor current rating). It should not be that hard to find a replacement (you could start by contacting Sensata at the link above to see if they sell directly or will give you a list of distributors).

However – your starter also appears to have thermal overload protection, based on the picture of it and the wiring diagram you showed a few posts ago. If so, then you only need one or the other, not both. If the starter has the correct heater for the motor, then you can bypass the klixon in the motor. If not, then you could try to find the proper heater – or you can replace the Klixon in the motor and bypass the heater in your starter (just jumper it with a piece of wire).

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Thanks for the reply. I used the link you posted, the company in the link above (confirmed- the company doesn’t sell directly, at least not in this situation) referred me to a few of their distributors. I emailed them, I am waiting for the replies.

“It should not be that hard to find a replacement” I agree it shouldn’t be (but it is).

I attached a jumper a couple of weeks ago, I am looking at this as a temporary fix.

I hesitate in relying on the starter solely for regulating the motor, especially since the Starter didn’t throw itself into reset when this current Capacitor & Switch issue happened.

Thanks again.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1007 posts in 3305 days


#18 posted 01-29-2019 01:39 AM

Just found this post tonight, so you may have it fixed. The thermal switch IN the motor opens when the motor overheats. The HEATER in the starter heats a thermal switch which trips when the motor amperage draw is too high. Both are needed. The breaker protects from short circuts. The push buttons are both momentary contacts and will not stay pushed in. If you don’t have the starter figured out, post a note.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7480 posts in 2711 days


#19 posted 01-29-2019 03:47 AM

The thermal switch IN the motor opens when the motor overheats. The HEATER in the starter heats a thermal switch which trips when the motor amperage draw is too high. Both are needed.
- ibewjon

Got to respectfully disagree… You will rarely find a Klixon protected motor from the factory on a machine with a starter. About the only time I’ve seen them is when a replacement motor has been installed, and it is not the OEM one it shipped with. The starter and Klixon both operate the same way, using a heating element whose temperature is controlled by the amount of current flow through it. It certainly doesn’t hurt to have both – more protection is a good thing – but you don’t need both IMO.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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ibewjon

1007 posts in 3305 days


#20 posted 01-29-2019 04:45 AM

I don’t know your background, but in over 40 years as an industrial electrician, I have hooked up dozens of motors where there is a temp switch IN a motor controlled by a starter. For a 3 phase motor, the switch is in series with the starter coil. A single phase motor with a magnetic starter would be wired the same. When the switch opens, on high temp, the coil drops out shutting down the motor. Most of the switches are bi metal, although there may be some that I have not seen that are a solder pot type. Remember that we are talking about an older high quality powermatic. The temperature switch would prevent the motor from overheating and igniting sawdust built up on the motor, especially in a school or industrial use.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1007 posts in 3305 days


#21 posted 01-29-2019 08:12 PM

Just received word back from the manufacturer of Klixon switches. The person that responded to my question said they do not know of any MELTING TYPE Klixon switches. All are bi metal types.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7480 posts in 2711 days


#22 posted 01-29-2019 10:34 PM

Just received word back from the manufacturer of Klixon switches. The person that responded to my question said they do not know of any MELTING TYPE Klixon switches. All are bi metal types.
- ibewjon

Yup – they use a heater as mentioned – sized based on the FLA of the motor being protected, to trip the bi-metalic element into its open position. Here is a picture of the inside of a manual reset one so you can see the heater element… although it got fried by a PO who wired it up wrong. The bi-metalic element has been removed, but it spanned across the top and bottom (right) terminals.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View username's profile

username

12 posts in 436 days


#23 posted 01-29-2019 10:43 PM

Brad-

Can you explain or show how the top comes off?

Thanks

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1007 posts in 3305 days


#24 posted 01-29-2019 11:06 PM

So someone manufactured a switch that is a combo of a klixon and a heater. Who was the manufacturer?

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7480 posts in 2711 days


#25 posted 01-29-2019 11:20 PM

Brad-
Can you explain or show how the top comes off?
- username

It’s been a while, but I believe I had to trash it to get the top off. It was already fried, and I wanted to see what the internals looked like and why it wasn’t working. Worked out great… It being fried and the motor not running allowed me to really talk down the seller of the Delta bandsaw I brought home along with it :)

So someone manufactured a switch that is a combo of a klixon and a heater. Who was the manufacturer?
- ibewjon

The above IS a Klixon – they all have heaters, sized appropriate for the current load of the motor being protected.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View username's profile

username

12 posts in 436 days


#26 posted 01-30-2019 09:19 PM



Just received word back from the manufacturer of Klixon switches. The person that responded to my question said they do not know of any MELTING TYPE Klixon switches. All are bi metal types.

- ibewjon

If possible, can you share your contact’s contact info?

Besides Sensata customer service, I haven’t received a single reply from any lead or any distributor in regards to this switch.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1007 posts in 3305 days


#27 posted 01-30-2019 10:16 PM

Glad I didn’t delete. Hope it helps. Denise Tangherlini. [email protected]

View username's profile

username

12 posts in 436 days


#28 posted 01-30-2019 10:43 PM

Great!

I just emailed her.

Thanks

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