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View Dan Krager's profile

Supershop owners

by Dan Krager
posted 07-21-2018 01:08 AM


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298 replies

298 replies so far

View cyeks's profile

cyeks

16 posts in 206 days


#251 posted 09-30-2019 03:14 PM

I do have a couple unrelated questions:

1) Does anyone know the size of the set screw used to lock the miter gauge in the miter slot? Mine is missing and I took the miter gauge to the hardware store but couldn’t find a screw size to thread in. I assume it’s metric but the thread spacing didn’t match with the common bolts they had.

2) Is there a way to flatten a 12” sanding disc? Mine appears to lay flat on a table but in use there’s clearly a high spot that comes around so I’m not getting an even sanding. I’m looking at ebay for a ShopSmith sanding disc but I guess there’s no guarantee that they would be flat either.

3) Slightly related, has anyone used the ShopSmith conical sanding disc and have thoughts on it? If I’m going to buy another disc, maybe I get that one for some additional functionality. I’m thinking it can still be used as a traditional flat disc if the miter gauge is set to 4 deg to compensate for the conical portion?

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

64 posts in 2286 days


#252 posted 09-30-2019 03:22 PM

Fixture for mounting Shopsmith Special Purpose Tools on SuperShop

Here are some photos of the fixture I made for mounting Shopsmith tools on the Supershop. Since I have both Supershop and Shopsmith equipment, I didn’t want to adapt any of the Shopsmith tools to fit exclusively on the Supershop, so now I can mount the Shopsmith tools I have on either machine.

The fixture is made of 3/4” oak-faced plywood with a poplar core that I had lying around, two lathe-turned red oak posts ( 1 1/2” diameter by 5 1/2” long) that fit into the two holes at the end of the Supershop, some glue, and screws, as well as a Shopsmith mounting base. I used the Shopsmith mounting base because I had it, although a wooden mounting base of sorts would likely work just as well. The top of the mounting base is level with the end cap with the two holes on the Supershop. This allows for fitting the Shopsmith tools on a Supershop or a Shopsmith without having to adjust the height of the tool to align with the spindles on either machine. The two posts keep everything aligned and the revolving clamping handle between the two holes keeps them tight, although tightening and loosening the clamping handle is a bit awkward, but possible using the square opening I cut in the fixture. The bottom of the fixture rests on the Supershop base, providing additional support.

To get accurate spacing for the two posts, I made a template (see the last photo) using two 3×3” pieces of 3/4” plywood and drilled a 1 1/2” hole in the center. Fit the squares onto the two lathe-turned posts and dropped them into the two holes on the Supershop end cap. Then using screws connected the two squares with a 3” wide strip of plywood that spanned across the two posts. After removing the posts, I then drilled the rests of the way through the wood strip with a 1 1/2” forstner bit. The last photo shows the template I ended up with.

I show the Shopsmith jointer mounted in the fixture, but I’m unable to use it on the Supershop because it needs to be driven by the lower Power Take Off (PTO) on the headstock and I don’t have anything that will allow that just yet. I’m guessing that the PTO on the Smithy Supershop measures 20mm with a 2mm pitch, so I’ll have to figure out something. Haven’t measured the one on the Fox yet.

To run these Shopsmith tools, I’m using the drive adapter I showed in earlier post that uses 5/8” all-thread, as the span between the tool and the Supershop headstock is too great to use the standard Supershop drive hub and connector. I’ve been thinking that I could saw in half the plastic drive connector and insert a dowel rod of appropriate length between the two halves in order to drive the accessory tools, but haven’t tried that yet.

Aside froma few parts, I don’t have any drawings or measurements for the individual parts of the fixture as I simply measured things to fit as I went along.

View DantheToolman's profile

DantheToolman

40 posts in 515 days


#253 posted 09-30-2019 05:17 PM

cyeks- Glad you are having fun and get to be creative at same time with the machine. I am getting ansy to get my #3 machine in my shop from IL. I’ll bring it home on next visit in November. I have 2 Fox & 1 Smithy.

BTW, for general knowledge, George posted a comment about Smithy having limited stock of tools. This is true. I spoke to Ellie and ordered a few parts just so I have some in case they break. Since I repair Shopsmith tools, I figure these are not much of a stretch even though different. So if anyone runs into carnage…......

I also got some 5/8” drill rod and am making spindles to use Shopsmith parts on any of the machines.

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

64 posts in 2286 days


#254 posted 09-30-2019 06:04 PM



I do have a couple unrelated questions:

1) Does anyone know the size of the set screw used to lock the miter gauge in the miter slot? Mine is missing and I took the miter gauge to the hardware store but couldn t find a screw size to thread in. I assume it s metric but the thread spacing didn t match with the common bolts they had.

2) Is there a way to flatten a 12” sanding disc? Mine appears to lay flat on a table but in use there s clearly a high spot that comes around so I m not getting an even sanding. I m looking at ebay for a ShopSmith sanding disc but I guess there s no guarantee that they would be flat either.

3) Slightly related, has anyone used the ShopSmith conical sanding disc and have thoughts on it? If I m going to buy another disc, maybe I get that one for some additional functionality. I m thinking it can still be used as a traditional flat disc if the miter gauge is set to 4 deg to compensate for the conical portion?

- cyeks

Chris, I tried measuring that locking screw for a Fox miter gauge (but it fits the Smithy as well) and got no where. It is .390 in diameter or close to 25/64” or 10mm. It’s about a 1/4” long. The best fit with a thread pitch gauge was for 27TPI, which goes with tapered pipe threads or lamp fittings. These screws are tapered so they spread the two sides of the miter gauge apart in order to lock it in the miter gauge slot. Shopsmith has a similar style miter gauge bar, but the tapered locking screw doesn’t fit the Supershop. It’s about a 1/64” larger diameter than the Fox screw. Hopefully, someone else will know for sure what it is.

Regarding the Shopsmith conical sanding disk, it’s good for squaring the edge of a board like you would on a jointer if you tilt the table the 4 degrees to match the taper of the disk. It also can be used to sharpen planer and jointer blades if you also have the Shopsmith holder for the blades. Otherwise, IMO the standard flat disk is more useful for everything else.

Perhaps an arbor or hydraulic press would help in flattening the disk you have. Or, perhaps an angle grinder could remove the high spot.

Woodcraft sells a 10” sanding disk that mounts like a saw blade.

View cyeks's profile

cyeks

16 posts in 206 days


#255 posted 09-30-2019 07:45 PM

Ted724, Thanks for taking the time to get those measurements. Might explain why I’m having trouble finding something that fits. I looked in the Smithy manual exploded parts diagram and it’s simply listed as “SS694 Set Screw”, no dimensions.

I’ll see what I can do with flattening the sanding disc, although I’m still inclined to get a ShopSmith one on eBay to be able to stick a different grit on there. Thanks for the info on conical.

I’d use the sanding disc more if the table saw lower blade guard/dust shroud could be used for dust collection. It does fit but I realized you can’t lower the table enough. Eventually I’ll get around to building a shorter box to enclose the lower portion of the sanding disc and stick a vacuum port out the side.

View DantheToolman's profile

DantheToolman

40 posts in 515 days


#256 posted 10-01-2019 01:39 PM


Ted724, Thanks for taking the time to get those measurements. Might explain why I m having trouble finding something that fits. I looked in the Smithy manual exploded parts diagram and it s simply listed as “SS694 Set Screw”, no dimensions.

I ll see what I can do with flattening the sanding disc, although I m still inclined to get a ShopSmith one on eBay to be able to stick a different grit on there. Thanks for the info on conical.

I d use the sanding disc more if the table saw lower blade guard/dust shroud could be used for dust collection. It does fit but I realized you can t lower the table enough. Eventually I ll get around to building a shorter box to enclose the lower portion of the sanding disc and stick a vacuum port out the side.

- cyeks


I sent an email to Ellie @Smithy to see if they might have that set screw. She can check but parts list shows reference # but no part #. I have both Fox & Smithy units and my Fox miter has that set screw. It fits in the Smithy miter bar. I did some hunting in my taps and the 1/8 27 NPT tap meshes with the threads on that screw and that tap fits the Smithy miter bar. NPT threads are tapered I believe which fits with the purpose of that screw. As it is tightened, it spreads the miter to snug up the fit in the slot. The head is an Allen (hex) and my 3/16” Allen fits it perfectly. I also know it is not the 3/8 24 TPI cause that tap is close but did not mesh with screw threads nor fit well into the hole. I did a search and see that seems to be a common size set screw available from several places for relatively cheap. I added some pics for fun.



In the searches I see a 3/16” Allen head mentioned so think that is correct.
I also have a few extra Shopsmith Sanding disks I can sell if you are interested. I have both steel and aluminum for Shopsmith. The aluminum or M500 steel should work fine and I can spin test them. I have at least 7 steel and 5 aluminum sanding discs. Checking EBAY I see many around $35 + shipping. I will sell either for $25 plus shipping. I have plenty if you want more than one to load different grits. I also have a decent selection of the 12” disc papers in various grits. Feel free to contact me [email protected] if interested and we can go from there.

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

View cyeks's profile

cyeks

16 posts in 206 days


#257 posted 10-01-2019 03:53 PM

Thanks Dan, I will contact you privately regarding the discs.

The info on the set screw is gold. Now that I know what to look for it shouldn’t be much trouble. There’s a Grainger just down the street from me. Thank you!

View Dan Krager's profile

Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#258 posted 10-02-2019 01:39 AM

Well, I’m late to the party, but the set screw stuff is old hat to me. BTDT. Yes, it is pipe thread and I didn’t have any trouble finding a fit. Wish I could remember where! But you’ve solved the problem.

The conical disk you asked about, cyeks, does not perform the same way a flat disk does. The conical is designed to run adjacent to a slightly tilted table so that the table surface is perpendicular to a vertical radius line on the disk. I’m thinking 10° if I remember correctly. Once that relationship is established, then the sanding disc will sand parallel to the grain of a passing board and leave no swirl marks like a flat disk would. It works well to run the edge of a board against a fence set at a distance to remove a very slight amount. Remember, it’s sandpaper, not a jointer knife.

Before you go to a lot of trouble flattening the 12” wobbly disk, check for runout in the collet by placing a 3/4” rod in the collet and check the runout with a dial indicator. If it is within 0.002”, then simply true up the face of the disk with a lathe scraper. That will remove the high spots at least. It is trivial for a machinist to true up the disk, so it shouldn’t cost much if you want it really true.

Ted, You have done a remarkable job building an adapter for Shopsmith accessories outboard on the Supershop!.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

View DantheToolman's profile

DantheToolman

40 posts in 515 days


#259 posted 10-03-2019 12:27 PM

I got a response from Ellie @ Smithy (DTM Sales). The SS694 is the part # for that set screw and they have plenty in stock. Cost is $.75 each if you cannot find anywhere else or need to order other stuff from DTM. I also received the order from DTM for parts. Of the remaining 4 torsion springs for raising/lowering the unit into vertical, I ordered 2. Those things are HEAVY! I figured if one does break (as evidenced by past postings), they will be hard to find. After Thanksgiving, I will have 2 Fox and 1 Smithy in my shop so odds are at some point I might need one. But also am expanding repair to include SuperShop and other brands, not just Shopsmith.
I also was measuring wobble on some sanding discs for Cyeks and my run-out on my Fox is .0015” so not bad. The old greenie Shopsmith quill I sacrificed has too much wobble and can see it when it turns. I got some 5/8” drill rod (oil quenched) and cut some spindles and ground/filed a tapered flat and it still measured .0015” so am happy. I am reluctant to measure the Smithy cause I think it will be a problem. It has a grinding/cruchy noise when it turns. Currently it is setup as a permanent drill press and eventually will have to deal with it but that will be a tear-down and replace bearings etc. I do not have time for that right now. My major project is adding more insulation to my shop. It is a metal building and had some “minimal” stuff (basically bubble-wrap with house wrap in one side and silver foil on other- patetic to say the least. I am adding a layer of insulation inside to make an envelope and isolate the metal beams from radiating the heat inside. R-22 in ceiling and R-17 for walls. It is a HUGE project cause wood purloins need to be installed between the metal beams/posts to fasten the insulation. I am doing it in sections so it is doable, just time consuming.

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

64 posts in 2286 days


#260 posted 10-03-2019 02:05 PM



I got a response from Ellie @ Smithy (DTM Sales). The SS694 is the part # for that set screw and they have plenty in stock. Cost is $.75 each if you cannot find anywhere else or need to order other stuff from DTM. I also received the order from DTM for parts. Of the remaining 4 torsion springs for raising/lowering the unit into vertical, I ordered 2. Those things are HEAVY! I figured if one does break (as evidenced by past postings), they will be hard to find. After Thanksgiving, I will have 2 Fox and 1 Smithy in my shop so odds are at some point I might need one. But also am expanding repair to include SuperShop and other brands, not just Shopsmith.
I also was measuring wobble on some sanding discs for Cyeks and my run-out on my Fox is .0015” so not bad. The old greenie Shopsmith quill I sacrificed has too much wobble and can see it when it turns. I got some 5/8” drill rod (oil quenched) and cut some spindles and ground/filed a tapered flat and it still measured .0015” so am happy. I am reluctant to measure the Smithy cause I think it will be a problem. It has a grinding/cruchy noise when it turns. Currently it is setup as a permanent drill press and eventually will have to deal with it but that will be a tear-down and replace bearings etc. I do not have time for that right now. My major project is adding more insulation to my shop. It is a metal building and had some “minimal” stuff (basically bubble-wrap with house wrap in one side and silver foil on other- patetic to say the least. I am adding a layer of insulation inside to make an envelope and isolate the metal beams from radiating the heat inside. R-22 in ceiling and R-17 for walls. It is a HUGE project cause wood purloins need to be installed between the metal beams/posts to fasten the insulation. I am doing it in sections so it is doable, just time consuming.

- DantheToolman

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the info.

Did Ellie provide you with a list of items they still have in stock for the Supershop? Also, are you dealing with Smithy by phone or email? If email, what’s here email address?

Thanks

View DantheToolman's profile

DantheToolman

40 posts in 515 days


#261 posted 10-03-2019 02:52 PM


Hi Dan,

Thanks for the info.

Did Ellie provide you with a list of items they still have in stock for the Supershop? Also, are you dealing with Smithy by phone or email? If email, what s here email address?

Thanks

- Ted724

George Stiles had put a post in this and the Yahoo SuperShop forums about parts and how to contact but here it is…...


I have been in conversation with the owners Smithy, also known as DMT.

Smithy has a limited supply of parts for the Smithy SuperShop that they will make available for users to purchase with the following conditions: 1) as is, no returns 2) no support, technical or otherwise 3) no inventory price list available 4) customer must provide part number and description

They will check availability and quote a price. The prices are reasonable. They can provide a digital copy of the manual if you need one. With the introduction of the Smithy Ironwood and larger table, some of the part numbers changed and are not reflected in the manual. Their database can cross-reference.

The DC motor and controller is the same as their Granite machine and also available and supported. However, you will have to drill/machine the spindle end to accept the SuperShop Mot0r Sheave.

Call the main number and ask for Ellie.She is great to work with.
800-476-4849

You know much more about the SuperShop than Smithy(DMT) no does, so be patient and detailed with what you are looking for. The majority of Fox and Smithy SuperShop parts are not interchangeable and there were several variants to the Smithy Supershop during its run. Parts should be interchangeable with the Central Machinery 10 in 1 Wood and Metal Working Machine.

- SSx3

DMT Sales ([email protected]) I spoke first by phone, then email. She was great to work with.

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

View Dan Krager's profile

Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#262 posted 10-03-2019 05:23 PM

Good deal on the parts. Glad you got some.

Don’t let replacing the bearings be a stumbling block. On the Fox it’s a 30 minute chore if I’m loafing. One set screw, two snap rings, a rag and some assembly grease. On the Fox, the quill is held from leaving the headstock by a set screw in the top of the (horizontal) headstock. Removie the screw stop and the quill can be extended via the handles until the rack and pinion disengage. Hold onto the handle FIRMLY because if it snaps back it might leave a mark. After the rack is disengaged, count the turns to relieve the spring retraction tension. Slide the quill the rest of the way out and remove the snap ring on the open end. That will expose the bearing and when that is removed, the other snap ring and bearing will be exposed. Rinse and repeat. You know the drill for reassembly. I did not need a bearing extractor as the fit was just perfect. I’ve never had to replace any other bearings yet, so good luck. The two bearings were identical and replacements were obtained at auto supply.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

View DantheToolman's profile

DantheToolman

40 posts in 515 days


#263 posted 10-03-2019 06:16 PM



Good deal on the parts. Glad you got some.

Don t let replacing the bearings be a stumbling block. On the Fox it s a 30 minute chore if I m loafing. One set screw, two snap rings, a rag and some assembly grease. On the Fox, the quill is held from leaving the headstock by a set screw in the top of the (horizontal) headstock. Removie the screw stop and the quill can be extended via the handles until the rack and pinion disengage. Hold onto the handle FIRMLY because if it snaps back it might leave a mark. After the rack is disengaged, count the turns to relieve the spring retraction tension. Slide the quill the rest of the way out and remove the snap ring on the open end. That will expose the bearing and when that is removed, the other snap ring and bearing will be exposed. Rinse and repeat. You know the drill for reassembly. I did not need a bearing extractor as the fit was just perfect. I ve never had to replace any other bearings yet, so good luck. The two bearings were identical and replacements were obtained at auto supply.

DanK

- Dan Krager

Thanks Dan K but it is not the work but time. I have been rebuilding Shopsmiths for over 17 years so know bearing replacement well. It does look easier on SuperShop and based on your description is. But putting the how-to here for everybody is a good exercise in case someone else needs to replace. I will get to it after I clear out some other projects in the works. But your expertise is definitely valued. Dan

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

64 posts in 2286 days


#264 posted 10-05-2019 01:49 PM



I ve gotten a lot of great info from this thread, thanks all for contributing. Here s a couple small things I ve done on my SuperShop.

I added a big on/off paddle switch and just Gooped it to the front of the machine. I looked around for a better place to integrate the switch but this was just the easiest and most accessible in both horizontal and vertical use.

I found the key system to be a bit fiddly and the prior owner already replaced the toggle switch once after a failure. I spliced into the main power cord before it feeds to the built-in toggle switch. Wire enters the powerhead thru the hole pre-drilled presumably for the auto-feed carriage.

While I had the Amazing Goop out, I added a magnet to hold the drill chuck key.

Lastly, I built the lathe banjo referenced in an earlier video. I made it out of hard maple and realized that because of the multiple T-tracks in the carriage, it doesn t really have to support a lot of load out on the arm since the base is supported by the carriage top most of the time.

I m just doing spindle turnings for now so I don t need a lot of clearance/capacity from this setup yet. The big wooden knob can be replaced with a simple nut and the arm could be thinned down for larger diameter pieces. For now it s convenient to just loosen/tighten the knob without tools. Still need a socket wrench to lock down the tool rest securely.

I made the parts beefier than they probably need to be but it definitely feels stable. I don t have welding capability so I bought the tool rest set from Peachtree for $30.

I made an elongated nut to prevent binding in the T-track when sliding the banjo in the track.

That s all I have for now, still really enjoying using the SuperShop.

- cyeks


Chris, I like the on-off switch and banjo. Regarding the switch, a couple of weeks ago I was turning an item to an exact diameter that required frequently shutting off and turning on the Supershop by way of the key switch, which really got to be a pain after a while. Your posting of the switch reminded me that a few years ago I made a couple of switches out of rocker-type light switches and an extension cord. Installed the rocker switch in a metal outlet box and attached a magnet from harbor freight to the back of the box so it could be attached remotely to something steel. For non-steel items like the Supershop head, I got a couple of blank switch plate covers for the boxes and now I have an on-off switch mounted similarly to your set-up. I used hot melt glue to attach the switch plate cover to the head of the Supershop. No pictures, but can take some if anyone is interested.

Regarding the banjo, I think I’m going to make one of those as it sure looks more convenient for making adjustments to the tool rest. It also will have less wear on the metal parts than tightening a set screw that digs into the metal in order to lock the toolpost every time you make an adjustment. After a while those small dings from the setscrew make precise settings more difficult.

View Dan Krager's profile

Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#265 posted 10-05-2019 03:20 PM

Re turning the Supershop on and off frequently. Long ago I ran into that “problem” and finally decided it was time and machine cost effective to simply reduce the RPM to zero by running a finger alongside the control knob. If your circuits are not adjusted properly so that the rheostat doesn’t stop the spindle, then a bit of tweaking is in order. It seems to be as quick if not quicker and the switch doesn’t take a beating. And it’s compatible with the principle of zeroing out the speed control at every stop.

Re: problem of set screws deforming the shaft they are supposed to lock. If a short slug of brass or steel rod the same diameter as the ID of the set screw hole is inserted under the set screw, the lock will be as effective without scarring. This does not work if the set screw is in a relatively thin wall.

The Delta banjo does not seem to distort the tool rest posts because the “set screw” is a 5/8” diameter fine thread screw that pushes the post against two opposing flat surfaces about 120° to each other inside the banjo hole. This configuration requires very little set screw pressure to hold very securely. Tormek uses (and brags about) the same principle on their jigs. But for wood, you have opted for the best solution, IMHO. Slick work.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

View SSx3's profile

SSx3

4 posts in 185 days


#266 posted 10-05-2019 03:39 PM

1) Smithy SuperShop Miter bar “locking” screw: Socket Jam Screw 3/8”-24 pitch, 3/16 hex Key. Works on all my bars 3/4” & 1”, Smithy part did notwork
2) Disc Sander Dust Collector: I modified a table top dust collector from Woodcraft. Works Great. I will upgrade the Lower saw guard with 4” port.
3) Bearings: I replace all 4 upper bearings with SKF Shielded (not Sealed) rated for 9000rpm, Idler shaft bearings with SKF Sealed bearings rated to 11,000RPM.

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

64 posts in 2286 days


#267 posted 10-05-2019 04:46 PM



Re turning the Supershop on and off frequently. Long ago I ran into that “problem” and finally decided it was time and machine cost effective to simply reduce the RPM to zero by running a finger alongside the control knob. If your circuits are not adjusted properly so that the rheostat doesn t stop the spindle, then a bit of tweaking is in order. It seems to be as quick if not quicker and the switch doesn t take a beating. And it s compatible with the principle of zeroing out the speed control at every stop.

Re: problem of set screws deforming the shaft they are supposed to lock. If a short slug of brass or steel rod the same diameter as the ID of the set screw hole is inserted under the set screw, the lock will be as effective without scarring. This does not work if the set screw is in a relatively thin wall.

The Delta banjo does not seem to distort the tool rest posts because the “set screw” is a 5/8” diameter fine thread screw that pushes the post against two opposing flat surfaces about 120° to each other inside the banjo hole. This configuration requires very little set screw pressure to hold very securely. Tormek uses (and brags about) the same principle on their jigs. But for wood, you have opted for the best solution, IMHO. Slick work.

DanK

- Dan Krager


Hi Dan,

Regarding the setscrew damaging the contact surface, I believe the Shopsmith I bought new in 1980 used setscrews with brass inserts in the tool post in order to avoid damage. The newer ones don’t seem to use them. At one time I had though about inserting brass tips in some setscrews, even bought a coupling nut to house the setscrews so they could be held securely in a three-jaw chuck while drilling for the brass inserts, but never got around to it. Someday, perhaps.

I like the rocker switch I hooked up. It’s so convenient when using the lathe. Using the speed dial as you suggest also beats the key switch.

View GordoB's profile

GordoB

26 posts in 217 days


#268 posted 10-25-2019 04:36 PM

Forgive me guys for taking this conversation back quite a ways. I’m super disappointed in my lathe situation, those of you that were following along know I’ve done quite a lot including a really cool adaptation of a Delta banjo. The only reasonably easy way I could attach a Nova Chuck to this machine was using the shopsmith adaption. This has turned out to be a failure. I commented a while ago about my run out, and really there’s no doubt that it’s because of the 5/8 drill rod not having a perfect set with the Chuck adapter.

The run out is enough that I’m not able to do any Precision work. Twofold question, has there been any further development on an attaching a Chuck directly? And does anybody who’s done the shopsmith adaption have any 5/8 drill rod that fits the PSI shopsmith adapter perfectly? I’ll gladly pay for a piece of it if you do. I guess I could just try ordering a different piece of drill rod, but if someone has one that’s a perfect fit that would be better. Or any other ideas to go from an R8 collet to one by eight threads would be awesome.

-- Making sawdust

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GordoB

26 posts in 217 days


#269 posted 10-25-2019 06:45 PM

HOLD UP!

I stopped at Fastenall on a whim and they had a 5/8 rod that was REALLY tight on my adapter. As in PERFECT.

Took it home, lopped off a piece, put it in the collet…nope. 3-4 thou rounout at the end. 2ish up against the collet. Machine, as it was before…less than 1.

Got me to thinking…I can’t rally measure the collet. Could it be untrue? Never dawned on me.

I got the R-8 collet in 5/8” off Amazon. $10.99. Made by CSLU. Here it is:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MUS6864/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Any thoughts on buying a better one…think it could be the problem? No…I probably can’t afford the best. But if it was returnable, I’d spend 20-30 for sure.

Thanks for input.

-- Making sawdust

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Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#270 posted 10-25-2019 11:07 PM

When you measure the runout on the spindle, where do you put the indicator? I’d check the surface of the taper the collet pulls tight against. And it wouldn’t hurt to inspect the inside of the spindle cavity for some defect on the taper, a ding or something pressed into the wall etc.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

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Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#271 posted 10-25-2019 11:35 PM

Gordo, if you go back to post #198 you remember that Ted had a machinist cut 1×8 threads on an R8-MT4 adapter. I had an R8 custom fitted to my Nova native threads and it works very well. CNC people can do it cheaply enough I think.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

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GordoB

26 posts in 217 days


#272 posted 10-25-2019 11:35 PM



When you measure the runout on the spindle, where do you put the indicator? I d check the surface of the taper the collet pulls tight against. And it wouldn t hurt to inspect the inside of the spindle cavity for some defect on the taper, a ding or something pressed into the wall etc.

DanK

- Dan Krager

Thanks Dan, Good thoughts. Heading out to do that right now!

By spindle, do you mean on the actual Super Shop? If so, I put the dial indicator on the part with the threads, next to the threads. Does that make sense?

-- Making sawdust

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GordoB

26 posts in 217 days


#273 posted 10-26-2019 03:06 AM

Well….The inside of the R8 taper is fine, no more runnout than the rest of the machine. Looking for interference, I did find a pretty good size piece of machining debris inside the 5/8 R8 collet. Unfortunately, removing it didn’t help. I think I’ll try another R8 collet.

Dan, I did remember Ted’s setup. But if you read it, the new adapter had more runout than the drill rod-shop smith adapter. That’s why I went this way. I called a local shop, he said he wouldn’t set up a job for less than $200. I didn’t call any others.

-- Making sawdust

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GordoB

26 posts in 217 days


#274 posted 10-26-2019 03:38 AM

OK, so re-re-reading….Ted has the same runnout as I do. 5 thous or so. Actually, I can get it below 3 rotating the rod in the collet. Maybe it’s not a problem…it just seems really bad on the lathe. Hmmmm….maybe I just don’t know what I’m doing lol

-- Making sawdust

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Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#275 posted 10-26-2019 04:00 AM

Well, expectations may be relative to history. A machinist will consider 0.005” runout to be unacceptable, but any woodworker would be excited about that accuracy, especially on a 10” saw blade.

I agree that the Shops could be better than that at the spindle. I’ve never paid that much attention to it for lathe work because on wood turning, consistency is all that matters until you go to reverse the part. Then it will wobble until trued up again. A separation of 0.005” between axes surely can’t matter much on most wood turnings where the smallest dimension is usually greater than 0.125”. Even if one is fitting lids, wood moves much more than 0.005” so the tolerance thing is a ghost IMHO. You can feel it but you can’t take a picture of it.

An awful lot of really fine woodwork was/is done on machines of much less finess. Good luck.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

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GordoB

26 posts in 217 days


#276 posted 10-26-2019 05:36 AM

You can feel it but you can’t take a picture of it.

That’s a take-away I’ll remember.

-- Making sawdust

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Ted724

64 posts in 2286 days


#277 posted 10-26-2019 12:57 PM

I’m with Dan K on how significant or insignificant a few thousands of an inch are when it comes to turning on a wood lathe. If, however, you need better accuracy, about the only way to get it is with a four-jaw independent (not a scroll chuck like the Nova) where you adjust each jaw independently. Even on a quality metal lathe and a quality chuck you’ll get a few thousands runout with a scroll chuck. Collets should be better, but this all depends on the accuracy of the spindle bore. If you want a good measurement of the spindle bore, you’ll need a dial “test” indicator

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DantheToolman

40 posts in 515 days


#278 posted 11-22-2019 07:29 PM

I was reviewing past posts and see I put an email no longer active
Work email is [email protected] <—no> for sale once I sharpen the blades and reset them. It is same as the jointer from SuperShop except a different color.

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

View tobor's profile (online now)

tobor

3 posts in 140 days


#279 posted 01-27-2020 11:47 PM

Greetings to the group. I’m new here and not sure if this is the correct place to list a machine for sale or not but I figure that I’ll be told if it isn’t! I have a Super Shop for sale that I purchased new and have used very sparingly over the years – total hours of use would be well under 50. It has been great for what I have used it for but I have recently moved and have no room to set anything up in my new place ergo this posting. I don’t have the bandsaw or belt sander – mainly the machine on wheels, drill chuck, collets and wood turning tool rest and cover and the cover has been the most used accessory! I’m asking $650 for what I have and can post some pictures or email them if this is the correct location to post. Thanks for looking and keep up the good work – some really nice shops, projects and modifications to check out in this group!

-- Burt T

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Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#280 posted 01-28-2020 12:58 PM

Sure, you can post pictures here with the listing. There is another forum specifically for buying and selling and I recommend you post it there, too, or at least a link to this posting. Good pictures can make or break a deal, so take a good one that shows the whole tool, another showing the accessories it comes with. A detail of the name plate and the spindle nose will tell all. Some hint re: location is necessary unless you are willing to ship or deliver it!

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

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DantheToolman

40 posts in 515 days


#281 posted 01-29-2020 01:13 PM

Tobor, The important things are location, and as Dan K said good pictures. I am curious if it is a Fox or Smithy. For what I have seen them sell for and purchased, you might be a little on the high side but the little use should keep the value up. I traded a Shopsmith headstock I had refurbished for my first Fox (about a $350 equivalent value) and it was missing parts. The 2nd was a Smithy with bandsaw & jointer I picked up on a road trip in WI west of Milwaukee for $550. The 3rd was an EBay auction for a Fox for $240. It is mostly there and fills in some of the parts I was missing on the first Fox. Interestingly enough even the Fox machines had some differences- little things like the table throat plates screws were different and not interchangeable. Please post the pictures and location.
Thanks, Dan-the-Toolman

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

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DantheToolman

40 posts in 515 days


#282 posted 01-29-2020 01:22 PM



I was reviewing past posts and see I put an email no longer active
Work email is [email protected] for sale once I sharpen the blades and reset them. It is same as the jointer from SuperShop except a different color.

- DantheToolman


Hmmm not sure what happened to this post but much of what I wrote is missing.
My current personal email is [email protected] I am now officially retired.
The jointer comment is about a Shopsmith/SuperShop compatible 6” jointer currently mounted on a Shopsmith stand with a 1 1/2 HP motor. It is a WoodMaster brand- a Shopsmith knockoff. I replaced it with an 8” Jet with a 66” long bed. I also have acquired a small stock of parts for the SuperShop from DTM (the makers of the SMithy version). I have been repairing Shopsmith tools for over 17 years and using them over 40.I am retooling my shop for the 3 SuperShop tools I aquired. I love them for the lathe but still limited as a saw but I have a table saw for that as well as a 12” DeWalt slider miter. I am also adding insulation to my shop so it is a mess but worth it when complete. My shop building is a metal structure and studs are not 4’ between so it is a lot of extra work. I am 1/2 complete and feel a difference already. Nice to see this forum is still alive.

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

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Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#283 posted 01-29-2020 03:21 PM

DT, would you happen to have a lateral feed gear motor for a Fox? I have one that works, but a few of the teeth on the last reduction gear stripped off when I carelessly let it hit an immovable object. On all the previous ones I had, the motor would stall, but this gear was cast or pressed and a good deal more fragile. The company that made the motor is in St. Louis MO and they told me they could not supply a part that would work. I have the capability to machine the gear if I can determine the right cutter to get. Cannot seem to determine the necessary pitch diameter even with the full root diameter and OD. ??? My hillbilly engineering degree did not cover gear machining.
The major diameter (OD) is .665 in and the minor (root) diameter seems to be .455 or .456. Any help would be appreciated.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

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DantheToolman

40 posts in 515 days


#284 posted 01-30-2020 12:32 PM

Dan K- I do not have such a part. I did buy the torsion spring and some quill springs and some brake pads. I am not sure if DTM might still have the gears or not. Since it is carriage part I think Fox & Smithy are the same since I believe a carriage motor and parts can be moved from a Fox to a Smithy. My Smithy does not have a carriage motor but both my Fox machines do. The holes and mounts seem to be the same between Fox & Smithy. I suggest calling Ellie at DTM and check. She is great to work with. Dan T

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

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Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#285 posted 01-30-2020 12:43 PM

Thanks for the tip, DT. I’ll check but I’m not holding out much hope because the gear is internal to the gear motor and not really a SS part.

I’m still thinking of it as a machining challenge….

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

View lahola1's profile

lahola1

4 posts in 17 days


#286 posted 01-31-2020 02:27 AM

HI; I’m new to this forum and the supershop thread. I recently got a Smithy Supershop an find it to be a very sturdy and robust machine. I stumbled onto this thread and by reading it thru have learned alot about it. One thing I find lacking on it is a fine depth adjustment (i e taking sucessive .005” deep cuts when milling steel.
How do some of you work this problem?

P S. I also have an old Shopsmith mark VII. I think that it was a great improvement compared to the mark V.

thanks, lenny a.

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Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#287 posted 01-31-2020 11:31 PM

Welcome, lahola1.

How your feeding problem is handled may well depend on how you set up to do it. Can you post a photo? It will help us give you better advice perhaps.

When you are machining on any machine w/o a digital readout, a dial indicator is your friend. It really isn’t important that one take EXACTLY equal amounts when milling to a target, so the question is usually moot. The important thing to know is when you reach the target. But a dial indicator can help with both.

If you are familiar with machinist equipment, you may remember that many use a worm gear feed to advance the quill for milling. A clever machinist could rig up such a thing on one end of the quill shaft. Such a gizmo might also be rigged on the shaft of the carriage “crank”. Tony Fox used the lateral feed of his version of the SuperShop to advance the milling table into the cut, like some Bridgeports. That feature isn’t available on the clones, but all the mounting stuff is there if you care to take advantage of it. That would require some scarce parts. You might be able to rig a screw or hydraulic jack on the tail stock pins to advance the carriage upwards by small increments into the milling cut.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

View tobor's profile (online now)

tobor

3 posts in 140 days


#288 posted 02-02-2020 01:54 AM

Greetings again and a big thanks to Dan K. and DantheToolman for the info and advice to help me post my machine on this site. The location is about ten miles into Illinois from St Louis. The photos will show most of what is included – there will be more collets when I find the other box (just moved). I also have an original Super Shop cover for the machine that does a good job and looks good too! I’m the original owner and don’t have many hours of use on the SuperShop and the asking price is $650 or I would consider serious offers. Thanks for looking and I’ll try to answer any questions that may come up.

I also have some additional sanding discs for the wheel that would be in the other box when located….

-- Burt T

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Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#289 posted 02-02-2020 03:14 AM

That is a nice looking machine and the price seems right to me, given the condition. Hope you can sell it soon enough.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

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cyeks

16 posts in 206 days


#290 posted 02-02-2020 05:45 AM

If I might add to tobor’s SuperShop listing: I am selling my SuperShop bandsaw.

I am located in St. Louis (10 miles from him) so if someone is picking up tobor’s SuperShop and they would like the bandsaw attachment, let me know. I do have the coupler needed to connect to the SuperShop. Asking $80.

I think it was pointed out earlier in this thread that one advantage of connecting the bandsaw to the SuperShop is the variable speed so it can be used on soft metals.

Additional pics available upon request.

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lahola1

4 posts in 17 days


#291 posted 02-02-2020 11:13 PM

hi dan k,
yes I do use an indicator but trying to lock the quill down it feels like it’s clamping onto rubber. I lock it; the handle moves a little; lock it tighter till finally it doesn’t move anymore. maybe I better look inside more to see if something is amiss.
Your jack under the carriage is a good idea but I thing I found a better one.
There is a 3/8-16 threaded hole on the side of the carriage. I screwed a long 3/8-16 bolt with a metal tab welded onto it into the 3/8-16 hole; set the headstock gently down on it; setup my mill bit on my work.
Then after every pass I unlock the headstock; turn my bolt 1/8 turn and lock the headstock down again and continue milling (each thread on the 3/8-16 bolt is about .062” so 1/8 turn is about .008”}.
I haven’t tried milling yet but my test setup looked good.

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Dan Krager

4500 posts in 2865 days


#292 posted 02-02-2020 11:45 PM

The quill lock turns a threaded taper into it’s mate until friction overcomes movement. If alignment or grease is an issue, then it goes wonky. (I like that word….wonky wonky). Pop the cover plate off the center of the quill advancing handles and see if the nut under it is loose. There’s a nut front and back on mine that determine lateral travel limits.

That’s a great idea re: the bolt. See? Ideas are stimulated by questions and suggestions. Do be careful about the headstock falling on it…That aluminum shell the bolt goes through is kinda brittle and a bit thin to withstand a fall. If you were to put a 1/2” plate over the area to augment the strength of the aluminum wall that would be an additional place to mount a mag base dial indicator following the movement of the headstock up and down.

You may also want to consider a big angle plate secured to the T-slots instead of the aluminum saw table. That table has a LOT of flex in it when pressured. I don’t trust it for milling. I mount the angle plate and then put the X-Y milling table on that. Solid as any Bridgeport.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

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lahola1

4 posts in 17 days


#293 posted 02-03-2020 02:12 AM

hi dan k,
great tips on strengthening up my table and bolt system for milling and I’ll do more investigating on the quill lock.

thanks, lenny a.

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cyeks

16 posts in 206 days


#294 posted 02-09-2020 04:34 PM

Quick question: can someone tell me the diameter of the quill on the Supershop? I think it’s 3” but I’m not home to check it. Thank you.

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lahola1

4 posts in 17 days


#295 posted 02-10-2020 02:53 AM

yes, the quill is 3”.

View whitefishblues's profile

whitefishblues

7 posts in 165 days


#296 posted 02-14-2020 08:26 AM

Hi all, I have a Smithy Supershop (the beige version). I also picked up a Total Shop with the 6” jointer, bandsaw, and belt sander. I’m trying to decide whether to keep the Total Shop or not (I am keeping the SPTs). Two questions…

1. If an SPT is mounted on the left side, can the SuperShop be raised to drill press mode, or does the SPT get in the way?

2. Does anyone have a PTO Adapter (to run the jointer off the lower PTO) and/or a Shopsmith SPT Mount Adapter they would be willing to sell me?

Thanks!

View SSx3's profile

SSx3

4 posts in 185 days


#297 posted 02-14-2020 12:51 PM

Hello,

1) With no modifications, and some adjustments, it depends on the SPT and and the Smithy SuperShop version. The Shopsmith Band Saw with the new aluminum table will need to be removed.
With a notch cut into the the way tube end cap, you can raise the SuperShop with out removing the jointer, beltsander, and bandsaw with cast iron table. I have not tested the Shopsmith Jig Saw, Strip Sander, and Scroll Saw yet, though I have them set up for mounting on my SuperShop.

2) There are 2 options: 1) Purchase the mount adapter from DMT and make a PTO adapter. You can get hubs from Shopsmith. Tell Smithy you want: 2 jointer lower Mount adapters legs (metal cylinders) 1.5” x 2.5”; 2 jointer upper mount adapter legs 1.25” x 1.75”; 1 flat adapter bar. 2) Purchase a New Old Stock Smithy 6” Jointer from DMT. It will have every thing you need to mount and run the jointer on the SuperShop or Shopsmith.

When calling Smithy, ask for Ellie.

View DantheToolman's profile

DantheToolman

40 posts in 515 days


#298 posted 02-15-2020 01:01 PM



Hi all, I have a Smithy Supershop (the beige version). I also picked up a Total Shop with the 6” jointer, bandsaw, and belt sander. I m trying to decide whether to keep the Total Shop or not (I am keeping the SPTs). Two questions…

1. If an SPT is mounted on the left side, can the SuperShop be raised to drill press mode, or does the SPT get in the way?

2. Does anyone have a PTO Adapter (to run the jointer off the lower PTO) and/or a Shopsmith SPT Mount Adapter they would be willing to sell me?

Thanks!

- whitefishblues

You are starting to accumulate these things- it is a disease! SSx3 and myself know this disease well- we each have 3 mmachines. I also have refurbished/repaired Shopsmith tools for over 17 years and used them over 40. I do happen to have a drive hub for SuperShop for the jointer as well as a mount kit- the legs are shorter than the bandsaw & beltsander. I have an 8” Jet jointer so do not need these and am willing to part with them. Also can give other ideas for mixing Shopsmith & SuperShop tools since I do it all the time. I have most Shopsmith hubs and couplers as well as some less expensive options for driving accessory tools. You could also call DMT and see what they have and Ellie is great to work with.

I still run 2 mini-Mark Vs for Shopsmith tools but use the SuperShop now for most larger things- especially lathe and drill press. I am selling the “Sammy Sosa double Shopsmith lathe” and some other Shopsmith items since aquiring the 3 SuperShops. 1 Smithy and 2 Fox machines- 1 has the reverse switch and both have motorized carriages.
Send an email to [email protected] and we can take it from there. Thanks, Dan

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

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