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Supershop owners

by Dan Krager
posted 07-21-2018 01:08 AM


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267 replies

267 replies so far

View GordoB's profile

GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#151 posted 07-18-2019 08:18 PM

BTW Dan, TY for the spindle drive spur recommendations. I’ve spun out 2 already in Walnut. I’ve been looking at options.

-- Making sawdust

View GordoB's profile

GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#152 posted 07-18-2019 09:17 PM

I found a R8 to 7/8” 20 thread. Getting that milled to a 3/4” 16 thread is doable. Time to find a machinist

https://www.prolinemax.com/R8-Shank-78-20-Thread-Threading-Boring-Head-Taper-Threaded-Mount_p_3293.html

OR there is this:
https://www.prolinemax.com/R8-Shank-1-12-18-Thread-Threading-Boring-Head-Taper-Threaded-Mount_p_3294.html

Do you think there’s enough thread length to cut 1” 8 threads for standard chucks? IDK how long the average spindle is.

-- Making sawdust

View Dan Krager's profile

Dan Krager

4420 posts in 2746 days


#153 posted 07-19-2019 02:47 AM

Remember that it’s not just threads that need to be matched up. There is a centering taper that must match much closer than the threads. It is best to have mating parts at the machinist so he can verify the fit.

And, you can put a drill rod along the top of the soft tool rest. A couple countersunk bolts will hold it. I also grind the sharp edges of my lathe tools round so they handle more consistently and don’t ding up the tool rest so badly.

Jethrow, the 5/8” shaft can be as simple as a rod you buy from the hardware store, or even a 5/8” bolt with the head and threads cut off will give you the piece you need. A file will put a set screw flat (or taper=preferred) on it.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

View DantheToolman's profile

DantheToolman

35 posts in 396 days


#154 posted 07-19-2019 02:58 AM

Dan – so if I have a R-8 5/8” collet, I can take a Shopsmith shaft, cut to length to clear the carriage and figure in the arbor lengths, and use all of the Shopsmith accessories and arbors ? If so who sells just the shaft ? Price ?
Jethrow
Yes, this is correct- or at least most of the accessories will fit. No I know sells a particular shaft, but would be easy to make. I ended up sacrificing an old “greenie” quill. Anything 5/8” should fit on it. My Fox has a switch to go in reverse and I have driven accessories (like bandsaw) from quill end because they now spin in correct direction.

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#155 posted 07-19-2019 11:24 AM


I repair Shopsmith tools and have a nice stock of both. If you have a 5/8 shaft, all the Shopsmith accessories can fit the quill of the SuperShop. I made one by sacrificing an old style quill from a dead Shopsmith and used that for a bit until I bought my 2nd SuperShop that had a drill chuck (3/4” into the R-8 collet).

- Dan

Dan – so if I have a R-8 5/8” collet, I can take a Shopsmith shaft, cut to length to clear the carriage and figure in the arbor lengths, and use all of the Shopsmith accessories and arbors ? If so who sells just the shaft ? Price ?

Jethrow

- JethrowClampett


Jethrow, I posted a number of photos of how I did this back on the second page of this thread. I simply used 5/8” drill rod. Take note that Shopsmith uses what they call a “reverse taper” on this shaft. It’s necessary! It’s there to keep the accessory on the shaft should the set screw loosen a bit. Also take note that drill rod is not hardened metal like the Shopsmith shaft. Ebay is the likely place to find a Shopsmith quill/shaft.

View GordoB's profile

GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#156 posted 07-19-2019 04:08 PM

I think you guys have convinced me to go the “Shopsmith” route to mount a chuck. I know there are thousands of Shopsmiths around, but it feels funny counting on that little set screw for the whole shooting match! I know I’m paranoid.

Opinions on chuck brands? It won’t see massive use, looking at Grizzly, Nova, Oneway. Any cheaper off-brands worth it? Oneway looks to be the standard, but pricey. But I guess buy once, cry once.

Anyway, thanks for the great discussion gents. As you all know there is precious little info available for these things. Which I didn’t know when I got it from my dad. It’s got more shop dings than wear, I suspect I’ll be using it for a long time. So far I’ve used the lathe and drill press, but I’m planning a project for the band saw and jointer next week.

If anyone has any other tips on maintenance I’m all ears.

-- Making sawdust

View JethrowClampett's profile

JethrowClampett

24 posts in 254 days


#157 posted 07-19-2019 05:21 PM

GordonB I wouldn’t recommend the Shopsmith in expanding to woodturning. If your doing extensive woodturning or turning big bowls I would recommend a Powermatic or Robust. Otherwise your money would be better spent on having a machinist make the necessary collet driven parts to hook up a Nova, make 4” and 6” faceplates. The Shopsmith is a decent spindle maker, but is 1/2 the weight of the Supershop. I can’t imagine that would cost you more $300 for machining. In fact I will have what I suggested done and post in the near future with my cost.

-- Jethrow

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#158 posted 07-19-2019 05:34 PM


I think you guys have convinced me to go the “Shopsmith” route to mount a chuck. I know there are thousands of Shopsmiths around, but it feels funny counting on that little set screw for the whole shooting match! I know I m paranoid.

Opinions on chuck brands? It won t see massive use, looking at Grizzly, Nova, Oneway. Any cheaper off-brands worth it? Oneway looks to be the standard, but pricey. But I guess buy once, cry once.

Anyway, thanks for the great discussion gents. As you all know there is precious little info available for these things. Which I didn t know when I got it from my dad. It s got more shop dings than wear, I suspect I ll be using it for a long time. So far I ve used the lathe and drill press, but I m planning a project for the band saw and jointer next week.

If anyone has any other tips on maintenance I m all ears.

- GordoB

If you go the Shopsmith route as you say, I can’t stress enough the “tapered flat” on the Shopsmith spindle. It’s a must. One also needs to ensure that the setscrew fits snugly into the arbor of the accessory being attached to the spindle. A sloppy fitting setscrew could lead to a disaster!

I don’t know if there’s a best chuck out there, but I have a couple of Nova chucks and have never had an issue with them. You need an adapter to mount one of these chucks on a Shopsmith spindle. Either the “F” or the “S” adpater work. Both fit the Shopsmith spindle, but the “S” is the newer version and the preferred one.

View GordoB's profile

GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#159 posted 07-19-2019 10:11 PM


GordonB I wouldn t recommend the Shopsmith in expanding to woodturning.

Sorry I wasn’t clear. By using quotes: “Shopsmith” in describing my plan, I meant the Shopsmith mod, as in 5/8” shaft modified with a “tapered flat” in an R8 collet.

Ted, Thank you. I do hear you and understand, and GREAT pictures earlier in case I didn’t.

I have seen a few Shopsmith accessories with 2 setscrews. But I cannot find a spindle adapter that way. Anyone seen one? Mostly thinking Shopsmith to 1” 8TPI as that seems to be the most common out there with the most options. Any downside to either adding another setscrew…or for that matter drilling the shaft to give even better bite? IDK, just wanting more security. Probably overkill.

-- Making sawdust

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#160 posted 07-20-2019 12:19 AM


I think you guys have convinced me to go the “Shopsmith” route to mount a chuck. I know there are thousands of Shopsmiths around, but it feels funny counting on that little set screw for the whole shooting match! I know I m paranoid.

Opinions on chuck brands? It won t see massive use, looking at Grizzly, Nova, Oneway. Any cheaper off-brands worth it? Oneway looks to be the standard, but pricey. But I guess buy once, cry once.

Anyway, thanks for the great discussion gents. As you all know there is precious little info available for these things. Which I didn t know when I got it from my dad. It s got more shop dings than wear, I suspect I ll be using it for a long time. So far I ve used the lathe and drill press, but I m planning a project for the band saw and jointer next week.

If anyone has any other tips on maintenance I m all ears.

- GordoB

If you go the Shopsmith route as you say, I can’t stress enough the “tapered flat” on the Shopsmith spindle. It’s a must. One also needs to ensure that the setscrew fits snugly into the arbor of the accessory being attached to the spindle. A sloppy fitting setscrew could lead to a disaster!

I don’t know if there’s a best chuck out there, but I have a couple of Nova chucks and have never had an issue with them. You need an adapter to mount one of these chucks on a Shopsmith spindle. Either the “F” or the “S” adpater. Both the Shopsmith spindle, but the “S” is the newer version and the preferred one.

GordonB I wouldn t recommend the Shopsmith in expanding to woodturning.

Sorry I wasn t clear. By using quotes: “Shopsmith” in describing my plan, I meant the Shopsmith mod, as in 5/8” shaft modified with a “tapered flat” in an R8 collet.

Ted, Thank you. I do hear you and understand, and GREAT pictures earlier in case I didn t.

I have seen a few Shopsmith accessories with 2 setscrews. But I cannot find a spindle adapter that way. Anyone seen one? Mostly thinking Shopsmith to 1” 8TPI as that seems to be the most common out there with the most options. Any downside to either adding another setscrew…or for that matter drilling the shaft to give even better bite? IDK, just wanting more security. Probably overkill.

- GordoB

I’ve had and used Shopsmith equipment for almost 40 years and have never seen a Shopsmith-made accessory that uses two setscrews to attach something to the 5/8” Shopsmith spindle. And, I should add that I have most everyting made by Shopsmith. There’s one setscrew that lines up with the Shopsmith “tapered flat’” on the spindle. One setscrew is sufficient.

Using the Shopsmith to 1” x 8 TPI adapter is fine if you get a chuck that has 1×8 threads without needing an adapter. There are a number of chucks like this that thread directly onto a 1×8 spindle. On the other hand, if the chuck you get requires an adapter to mount to a lathe (the typical Nova chuck) you’d need two adapters, one to get you from Shopsmith to 1×8 and a second to get from 1×8 to the threads on the chuck.

View GordoB's profile

GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#161 posted 07-21-2019 02:31 AM

I ve had and used Shopsmith equipment for almost 40 years and have never seen a Shopsmith-made accessory that uses two setscrews to attach something to the 5/8” Shopsmith spindle.

This is one I had saved in my amazon list. Not being a Shopsmith guy I just thought it looked “more secure”.

https://www.amazon.com/Shopsmith-Spindle-Adapter-Threads-Smooth/dp/B07KD5285B/ref=pd_day0_hl_469_21?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07KD5285B&pd_rd_r=5b7e8320-e6c9-46d6-b693-0dcbb3cd4c94&pd_rd_w=K4UEl&pd_rd_wg=Qb5dn&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=92MD84QMVPRJRT3XF8VW&psc=1&refRID=92MD84QMVPRJRT3XF8VW

-- Making sawdust

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#162 posted 07-21-2019 03:10 AM

GordonB, that’s not a Shopsmith-made accessory; it may fit a Shopsmith spindle (as well as a 5/8” motor shaft as the ad says) but it’s not something sold by Shopsmith. And, while it may look more secure, it’s not as only one of those setscrews will land in the “tapered flat” of a Shopsmith spindle. Putting a setscrew onto a round shaft provides very little if any safety and won’t keep an arbor on a round shaft very long.

Here’s a photo of the Shopsmith-made 1/2” spindle (part # 555117) ==

While it doesn’t show the setscrew, there’s only one.

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#163 posted 07-21-2019 03:11 PM

While on the subject of Shopsmith accessories, I though it might be useful to show some of the items I’m using.

- the two items on the left are saw arbors. the left most one for saw blades with a 1 1/4” hole (the typical saw blades sold by Shopsmith). the other is for blades with a 5/8” hole.
- the third one from the left is a 5/8” arbor for a stacked dado set. Note that there is a groove through the threaded section. The washer (under the arbor) has a tang that fits into the groove as a safety feature to keep the nut from loosening.
- next is the lathe four prong drive center.
- next is the 1/2” arbor for shaper cutters (item #555117 I mentioned in an earlier post). It also has the safety groove and tanged washer.
- and last is the adapter for 1/2” router bits. Note there are three set screws, one to fasten it to the Shopsmith arbor and two to fasten the router bit into the adapter.

- the left most chuck is an independent 4-jaw chuck with a native female threat of 1” x 8 tpi for mounting to a lathe with that sized spindle. In front is an adapter from Penn State Industries that has a 5/8” smooth bore to 1” x 8 tpi threads for adapting this chuck to the Shopsmith spindle.
- the middle chuck is a older Nova that uses Tommy Bars for tightening the jaws. The native threads on the back of Nova chucks that use adapters is 1 1/2” x 8 tpi. So the chuck will fit lots of older metal lathes with similar threads on the spindle but you’d need a spacer on the metal lathe spindle between the lathe’s registration face and the rear of the chuck. In front are the two 5/8” smooth bore adapters. The “F” model is nearest the chuck; the other if the “S” model and preferred one.
- the right most chuck is a Nova G3, The insert there is the “D” model that fits lathes with 1” x 8 tpi spindles.

View GordoB's profile

GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#164 posted 07-21-2019 09:20 PM

Good stuff Ted. I have a G3 “Anniversary Edition” bundle on the way. “Dedicated” 1”x 8tpi, so no insert, reducing stacked adapters. Will be here Wednesday.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CT8N58V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

-- Making sawdust

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#165 posted 07-21-2019 11:32 PM



Good stuff Ted. I have a G3 “Anniversary Edition” bundle on the way. “Dedicated” 1”x 8tpi, so no insert, reducing stacked adapters. Will be here Wednesday.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CT8N58V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

- GordoB

You’ll like the G3; it’s hard to beat for the money. While you don’t need an insert to fix the chuck to the spindle, you do need an adapter to get from the chuck’s 1×8tpi thread to a 5/8” Shopsmith spindle. So it’s kind of a toss-up on that score. Either way, they work.

View GordoB's profile

GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#166 posted 07-22-2019 02:09 AM

You ll like the G3; it s hard to beat for the money. While you don t need an insert to fix the chuck to the spindle, you do need an adapter to get from the chuck s 1×8tpi thread to a 5/8” Shopsmith spindle. So it s kind of a toss-up on that score. Either way, they work.

- Ted724

But at least I’m not putting a 5/8 to 1×8 adapter, then a 1×8 insert.
If they have a dirrect shopsmith I didn’t see it.

At least it’s all coming from Amazon…if the R-8 to 5/8 shaft to 1” x 8 thread to G3….(whew I’m tired typing that!)....doesn’t work…I’ll send it back and use a faceplate lol.

-- Making sawdust

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

4190 posts in 2501 days


#167 posted 07-22-2019 11:06 AM

Got the G3 for my Shopsmith a month ago and it works great. I do not know why I waited so long.

View Dan Krager's profile

Dan Krager

4420 posts in 2746 days


#168 posted 07-22-2019 11:37 AM

I guess I just don’t understand. Why not an R-8 to 1×8TPI adapter straight up?

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#169 posted 07-22-2019 01:30 PM



I guess I just don t understand. Why not an R-8 to 1×8TPI adapter straight up?

DanK

- Dan Krager


Dan, is this an off-the-shelf item or something that has to be custom made? If available, where can I get one?

Thanks!

View Dan Krager's profile

Dan Krager

4420 posts in 2746 days


#170 posted 07-22-2019 05:52 PM

Well, I guess memory is playing tricks on me again. I remember looking very long and hard to find an R8 to Nova native thread adapter, but was frustrated that the closest I could come was R8 to 1×8 tpi. Now I cannot find it again. I can find R8 to other common thread, but not 1”!!! I decided that since (at the time) I had access to a CNC machine that could make the required R8 with male thread to fit Nova native I would go that route. So I was very lucky.

Most machine shops now have CNC capability and likely already have the program for R8 specs. It’s trivial to add a 1×8 TPI stub to that program, so they can be very cost competitive. It’s worth getting a quote from a shop you trust.

Thank you for your patience with my bad memory. Age is catching up to me. i’ll keep looking.

I’ve never made one before, but now I have the capability to do it manually. There has to be a centering cone somewhere and I don’t have any specifications for that.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#171 posted 07-22-2019 07:18 PM



Well, I guess memory is playing tricks on me again. I remember looking very long and hard to find an R8 to Nova native thread adapter, but was frustrated that the closest I could come was R8 to 1×8 tpi. Now I cannot find it again. I can find R8 to other common thread, but not 1”!!! I decided that since (at the time) I had access to a CNC machine that could make the required R8 with male thread to fit Nova native I would go that route. So I was very lucky.

Most machine shops now have CNC capability and likely already have the program for R8 specs. It s trivial to add a 1×8 TPI stub to that program, so they can be very cost competitive. It s worth getting a quote from a shop you trust.

Thank you for your patience with my bad memory. Age is catching up to me. i ll keep looking.

I ve never made one before, but now I have the capability to do it manually. There has to be a centering cone somewhere and I don t have any specifications for that.

DanK

- Dan Krager

I’ve looked for one of those several times, but like you I haven’t found one. What I did find was an R8 to 4JT (#4 Jacobs Taper) adapter that looks promising for machining the 4JT part into 1” x 8tpi threads. The 4JT taper runs from 1.1240” to 1.0372” and is 1.66” long, so there should be plenty of meat on the end to cut the threads. One is $16.77 on Ebay right now. Item number 303115796158

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Dan Krager

4420 posts in 2746 days


#172 posted 07-22-2019 11:05 PM

I saw that and considered it. It would be trivial for a machinist to cut those 1” threads. I just don’t know about the centering cone.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

View GordoB's profile

GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#173 posted 07-23-2019 03:16 AM

I too looked exhaustively for a direct R8 to 1” x 8tpi. I too found many other thread combos, but not that. I was considering the machinist idea, as you saw I posted some R8 adapters I thought could be machined. But once you mentioned the centering cone, I knew I wasn’t qualified to explain what I needed, so at least I need it in my hands to bring to the shop.

I’ll likely do that at some point soon, I do have a friend of a friend that is well respected. If he says “No problem” I’ll ask about doing a short run, maybe 5. The $$$ is in the setup after all.

-- Making sawdust

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#174 posted 07-23-2019 12:28 PM

I ordered one of those R8 to 4Jt adapters so I guess I’ll find out if they can have the 4jt end threaded 1×8tpi. I’m not clear about what is meant by “centering cone,” unless you’re both referring to the tapered section on the R8 side of the adapter. As for machining, the draw bar end of the R8 is machined round and the 4jt end has been center drilled so it should be no problem mounting the adapter between centers or using a chuck and tailstock.

View Dan Krager's profile

Dan Krager

4420 posts in 2746 days


#175 posted 07-23-2019 03:48 PM

The centering cone is a feature of all tooling that must run concentric to a center. For chucks, it is most often a tiny shoulder that looks like a casual chamfer, maybe up to 1/8” wide most often at the largest diameter of the mating surfaces. When the threads pull the tool up tight, the chamfer forces the tool to “center up”. The action is similar to a MT “setting up” or a collet retracting into it’s cone forcing it and the captured work piece to center up.

Before I learned about this feature many years ago, I just assumed that the threads would do the job, but if one is interested in close and consistent tolerance, threads just won’t cut it. The moderns ISO standard for threads truncates the peak of the thread and the root of the thread. When mated, the peak does not meet the root. This means that the side wall of the thread can push the tooling off center at will. There has always been “slop” allowed for threads because they have to spin, and because of the pitch of the thread and any external forces, the mating can and most likely will go off center unless there is a centering feature involved.

That very feature is one of the things Tony Fox paid attention to when he designed the Supershop. As an engineer working for Shopsmith, he understood that the Shopsmith was inherently not accurate enough not strong enough for metal working. It’s plenty good for woodworking, and has served many very well. I used a Shopsmith to get my woodworking to a commercial level. So when the Supershop came along, well, the rest is history. Tony wanted to capture both the hobbyist woodworker AND metal worker, and that was the rub that separated him from Shopsmith. Tony took me to an auto repair shop using his machine, an off the shelf Supershop, to mill motor heads. Impressed, I was.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

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Dan Krager

4420 posts in 2746 days


#176 posted 07-23-2019 03:50 PM

I meant to mention, that the reason I passed on the R8-4jt adapter is that there wasn’t enough material for the native thread on the Nova chuck I was getting. Yours seems to be different and it looks to me like it will work for you.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

View Ted724's profile

Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#177 posted 07-24-2019 02:46 PM



The centering cone is a feature of all tooling that must run concentric to a center. For chucks, it is most often a tiny shoulder that looks like a casual chamfer, maybe up to 1/8” wide most often at the largest diameter of the mating surfaces. When the threads pull the tool up tight, the chamfer forces the tool to “center up”. The action is similar to a MT “setting up” or a collet retracting into it s cone forcing it and the captured work piece to center up.

Before I learned about this feature many years ago, I just assumed that the threads would do the job, but if one is interested in close and consistent tolerance, threads just won t cut it. The moderns ISO standard for threads truncates the peak of the thread and the root of the thread. When mated, the peak does not meet the root. This means that the side wall of the thread can push the tooling off center at will. There has always been “slop” allowed for threads because they have to spin, and because of the pitch of the thread and any external forces, the mating can and most likely will go off center unless there is a centering feature involved.

That very feature is one of the things Tony Fox paid attention to when he designed the Supershop. As an engineer working for Shopsmith, he understood that the Shopsmith was inherently not accurate enough not strong enough for metal working. It s plenty good for woodworking, and has served many very well. I used a Shopsmith to get my woodworking to a commercial level. So when the Supershop came along, well, the rest is history. Tony wanted to capture both the hobbyist woodworker AND metal worker, and that was the rub that separated him from Shopsmith. Tony took me to an auto repair shop using his machine, an off the shelf Supershop, to mill motor heads. Impressed, I was.

DanK

- Dan Krager


Thanks for the info, Dan.

For the chucks I have, registration is accomplished by the flat on the back of the chuck mating with the shoulder of the lathe spindle. No cone at all. But, untill I get the adapter, I don’t know if there’s enough metal to create a wide enough shoulder. It may require the addition of a spacer of sorts to provide a registration surface. The adapter was only about $18 with tax so no big loss if it doesn’t work.

View cyeks's profile

cyeks

14 posts in 88 days


#178 posted 07-25-2019 05:37 AM

Hello, I’m looking forward to joining the SuperShop owners group. I’ve made arrangements to purchase a Smithy SuperShop, but won’t get to pick it up until next month.
I am going to have to disassemble it a fair bit to get it into my basement workshop. In preparation for that, I’ve watched the Smithy videos linked earlier in this thread. They talk about using a face spanner wrench to tension up the torsion spring, and that this tension has to be relieved to remove the pivot base.
Can anyone give me some measurements on this pin-style face spanner wrench? I know it’s not included in the sale. Looking for the spacing between opposite holes (center-to-center) on the torsion spring hub and also the diameter of the actual holes so I can get an adjustable spanner with appropriate sized pins. If I have this ordered in advance, hopefully I’ll be ready for unmounting the upper assembly from the base when I get the SuperShop.
On a related note, has anyone taken the carriage and headstock off of the way tubes? I’ll need to do this to navigate my basement stairs. Any tricks to it or anything I should watch for?
Thanks in advance for any tips!

View GordoB's profile

GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#179 posted 07-25-2019 06:39 AM

Cyeks…I did remove the headstock and carriage. I didn’t have any instructions, just winged it. They went back one w/o any challenges, except for re-aligning parts inside the tube-holes (you can see them easily) which was very easy.

So I broke the stupid tool rest holder (it’s not really a banjo) while roughing a branch. I thought that knot was gonna look so cool lol. I’m hot in the market. Wow are they prod of the Delta and One-way banjos! Debating making one. They must not break often (real banjos I mean) or there would be a ready supply. The struggle is real lol.

My wife wants to understand how the “free” machine from my dad has cost so much ;-)

-- Making sawdust

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GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#180 posted 07-25-2019 08:44 AM

Dan K. can you verify this is like yours? Does yours use 1” posts? I just spent $90 on a Robust rest with a 1” post.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-Rockwell-Beaver-Wood-Lathe-Banjo-Tool-Rest-Base-/173964044719

This is only $100 less than a brand new Oneway. But IDK if I can adapt it to fit the Super Shop.

-- Making sawdust

View Dan Krager's profile

Dan Krager

4420 posts in 2746 days


#181 posted 07-25-2019 12:14 PM

Gordo, the link shows a light duty version of the banjo I’m using and it is way over priced for what it is. Besides, the banjo shown doesn’t accommodate a 1” post. I don’t have a ready picture, but I do remember posting a link to an ebay picture like what I have. Yes, mine uses a 1” post The google fu turned up this sturdy home made one. As mentioned somewhere above, I broke the tool rest holder on one of mine, too. A good aluminum welder could repair and beef it up sufficiently. Might be half the cost of even a used Delta banjo. A “standard” slot nut that fits the underbolt was a trivial adaptation for the banjo. Most any banjo can be adapted, but I highly recommend 1” or over for tool post.

This is a good shot I had showing the whole wood lathe setup, including the Delta banjo. Notice the cool caliper setting thingy on top of the headstock. It allows quick setting of inside and outside calipers by putting the scale V into two different slots that present setting surfaces. Custom tail stock has same threads as head stock.

cyeks, I can measure the spacing on the Fox torsion spring hub and it MIGHT be the same. However, I’ve never had the need to remove it. I simply removed the headstock, carriage, and tubes with the hinge locks applied FIRMLY. If you disassemble, putting the correct tension back is a little poke and hope. The good news is that precision isn’t important. Just don’t forget the explosive power in that torsion spring. It’s worth every precaution you can take. If your carriage is powered, then you will have wiring to tinker with.

Edit: If you lock the auxilliary table (you know, the narrow one with miter slot) in the tail stock bracket, that will act as a safety for the spring tension. It can’t unwind with those tubes sticking down to the casting.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

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Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#182 posted 07-25-2019 12:39 PM

I’d like to echo Dan’s cautionary note about the power of that spring. Be careful there. I called Smithy before picking mine up about how to relieve the tension on the spring. The assembly video showed adjusting the spring with the machine in drill press mode, so I asked if I need to release the tension with the Smithy upright and was basically told not to bother. I didn’t and though I broke my hand in the process. It was just badly bruised, but it could have been worse as the wrench went flying. I guess I’m lucky I didn’t get hit in the head or it didn’t hit some else. I recall that it sheered one of the cap screws holding it in tension as well.

Moral is that if I had to do it again, I’d release the tension with the machine upright but I’m not sure that’s the proper way either. In any event, be very careful with that spring.

I had one of those wrenches/spanners for the tension spring on the Smithy, but it’s gone missing over the years. I’ll have a more thorough search later today. I’ll at lease measure and compare the pin spacing between the Fox and Smithy.

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DantheToolman

35 posts in 396 days


#183 posted 07-25-2019 01:41 PM



Hello, I’m looking forward to joining the SuperShop owners group. I’ve made arrangements to purchase a Smithy SuperShop, but won’t get to pick it up until next month.
I am going to have to disassemble it a fair bit to get it into my basement workshop. In preparation for that, I’ve watched the Smithy videos linked earlier in this thread. They talk about using a face spanner wrench to tension up the torsion spring, and that this tension has to be relieved to remove the pivot base.
Can anyone give me some measurements on this pin-style face spanner wrench? I know it’s not included in the sale. Looking for the spacing between opposite holes (center-to-center) on the torsion spring hub and also the diameter of the actual holes so I can get an adjustable spanner with appropriate sized pins. If I have this ordered in advance, hopefully I’ll be ready for unmounting the upper assembly from the base when I get the SuperShop.
On a related note, has anyone taken the carriage and headstock off of the way tubes? I’ll need to do this to navigate my basement stairs. Any tricks to it or anything I should watch for?
Thanks in advance for any tips!

- cyeks


Welcome to the addiction! I started with a Fox SS traded to me for a Shopsmith headstock I had rebuilt – I repair Shopsmith tools. It was missing a few things but I was able to adapt Shopsmith pieces to be able to use it and realize the capabilities over the Shopsmith and expand the capabilities of my shop. I then acquired a Smithy and they are “Da-brothers” sitting side by side. I recently also purchased another Fox and will pick it up in Fall from IL. It was about an hour from where I used to live and friends went to retrieve it and are keeping it for me. The Fox both have the motorized carriage and first one has a switch for reverse. So the warning for you is these can be quite addicting (Dan K warned me yet here I am!). The Smithy came with a spanner so I took pictures and measurements for you. Interestingly enough, the spanner is different spacing for Smithy & Fox. But I think some drilled holes on the Fox would fix that. 1st pic is spanner wrench- 16”L X 1 1/8”W X 14” thick. 2nd is close up of pins. The picture did not capture measurement but pins are 2 1/8” apart center-to-center. The pins look just over 3/16” diameter. 3rd is Smithy, 4th is Fox. Notice the extra holes in Smithy. At least 2 sets fix the spanner but not all. I think if I drilled matching holes in the Fox this would also work for it.

I have not (yet) had the need to take off headstock and am not looking forward to it. Shopsmith headstocks are 55 lbs (about 65 lbs for Power Pro). They come off OK but are heavy. SuperShop headstocks just look monstrous and at least 2 people recommended.

GordoB- Make some nice stuff for her will alleviate that somewhat. If you are able to put money from your hobby back into checking account, she would need to just stop (I didn’t say to be quiet because she is still a woman…...........). Yes I do get hate-email from time to time- why do you ask? LOL ;+D an

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

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cyeks

14 posts in 88 days


#184 posted 07-25-2019 01:49 PM

Thank you gentlemen for the quick responses. Both the video tutorial and the printed manual give a clear warning that the tension has to be relieved before removing the pivot base. I’m sure I’m not the only one who doesn’t have the spanner wrench attached to their machine anymore but maybe not too many people need to disassemble it either.
I see what you mean about dropping in the aux table to cam it, but I’d also like to heed all the warnings about the strength of the torsion spring as well. Thanks for the help.
BTW, the unit I’m getting is the 220 version, was this common? The printed Smithy manual accompanying appears to be generic as it only references 110v. My first 220v power tool, only has three prongs in the plug. Two 110 hot and a neutral I assume. Do I need to ground this plug somehow? The existing 220v outlet in my basement also is only three prongs but the two hot prongs are horizontal (while the machine plug has one horizontal and one vertical) so I will have to rewire it (either the outlet or the plug). Does anyone know if the 220v Smithy SuperShop requires a 15 or 20amp circuit?

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HokieKen

10958 posts in 1651 days


#185 posted 07-25-2019 01:52 PM



Dan K. can you verify this is like yours? Does yours use 1” posts? I just spent $90 on a Robust rest with a 1” post.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-Rockwell-Beaver-Wood-Lathe-Banjo-Tool-Rest-Base-/173964044719

This is only $100 less than a brand new Oneway. But IDK if I can adapt it to fit the Super Shop.

- GordoB

Gordo – I happen to have recently acquired a banjo off an old Delta 1460 lathe. It is just shy of accepting my 1-1/8” Powermatic tool rest bars so it will definitely accept your 1” posts. It’s missing the screw that locks the tool post at height but is otherwise complete and in good shape. PM me if you’re interested. I assure you I will beat that Ebay price by a long shot ;-)

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#186 posted 07-25-2019 02:11 PM

No luck yet in finding the wrench/spanner, but I’ve measured the spacing of the pins. What I get was the pins are 6mm diameter with a spacing of 54mm on centers. A note of caution here. 6mm pins are a bit sloppy in the holes, whereas 1/4” pins are a somewhat better fit. But inch measurements don’t seem right for the spacing, whereas the metric measurement seems more likely as the machine was made in China where metric measurements prevail.

In measuring this, I used two 6mm bits in opposite holes, measured across getting close to 60mm, then subtracted 6mm to get the 54mm spacing on centers.

As for measuring the Fox Supershop, I didn’t bother because there are only six holes, three of which are filled with cap screws in a triangle shape, so I’d have to remove one to make a measurement. I’m reluctant in doing that in light of my past experience with the Smithy.

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cyeks

14 posts in 88 days


#187 posted 07-25-2019 02:40 PM

Thank you DanTheToolman and Ted724 for the measurements on the spanner wrench. That’s the info I needed to either purchase an adjustable or make one. I’m sure I’ll have a lot more questions as I get up and running, this thread has been a terrific resource. Thank you!

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Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#188 posted 07-25-2019 03:43 PM

After seeing Danthetoolmans’s third photo, I took another look at my Smithy. Mine has 15 holes, not 9 as Dan’s does, so I don’t know if this was a manufacturing change or something the previous owner did. In any event, you can’t get two holes directly opposite one another with 15 holes that are evenly spaced, nor with nine holes. You do get three holes 120 degrees apart with either 15 or 9 holes and that a match for getting the three cap screws evenly spaced for locking down the spring.

Another thing, Dan got 2 1/8” spacing and I got 54mm, the difference is only about .001” so either will work. Were I making a wrench/spanner, I’d try 2 1/8” and 1/4” pins, as the inch sized pins have a tighter fit in the holes.

Aren’t the Supershops interesting?

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cyeks

14 posts in 88 days


#189 posted 07-25-2019 04:03 PM


Aren t the Supershops interesting?

- Ted724

Not sure I fully appreciate what I’ve gotten myself into yet! I have the sneaking suspicion the base machine may be the cheapest part when I start looking at all I want to upgrade. But will try to take it slow.

Former owner used it primarily as a lathe so it should have all the parts to turn spindles. Beyond that, we’ll have to see.

I do know I’d like to put a dado arbor on it, assuming these can’t be sourced any more, my next best option to adapt a ShopSmith one to fit? Using the 5/8” drill stock with tapered flat as described previously?

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DantheToolman

35 posts in 396 days


#190 posted 07-25-2019 04:37 PM


Not sure I fully appreciate what I ve gotten myself into yet! I have the sneaking suspicion the base machine may be the cheapest part when I start looking at all I want to upgrade. But will try to take it slow.

Former owner used it primarily as a lathe so it should have all the parts to turn spindles. Beyond that, we ll have to see.

I do know I d like to put a dado arbor on it, assuming these can t be sourced any more, my next best option to adapt a ShopSmith one to fit? Using the 5/8” drill stock with tapered flat as described previously?

- cyeks


Cyeks
Yes use a 5/8” shaft into an R8 collet. The one I cut from an old quill went to 3/4” so I used the 3/4” R8. Most Shopsmith items should be able to be adapted unless they tie into the way tubes on the Shopsmith.
Another interesting thing I found- The arbor from SuperShop can also fit a 12” blade. I also have a 12” DeWalt slider so have extra blades. Having a tablesaw with a 12” blade just might come in handy…............

BTW, I eye-balled the measurements on the spanner so nice to know my eye is calibrated to .001”!!! Must be from watching my pretty wife that keeps it so sharp. :+D an

-- When someone tells me that can't be done, I think they are challenging me.....

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Dan Krager

4420 posts in 2746 days


#191 posted 07-25-2019 04:52 PM

The banjo Mike has that’s missing the post bolt…it’s just a standard SAE fine thread, so any good hardware store should have the bolt. One of mine was missing too, so I just drilled a 3/16’ hole in the head for a cross bar.

Going back to the torsion spring. Yes, definitely upright the machine to relieve most of the tension if you are going to mess with un-tensioning it. Unless you have a very long handled wrench, you may still have difficulty controlling it. It is actually a big truck type torsion suspension spring, so you know there’s some force involved. I’ve done it both ways and I still think it is safer in the long run, turn the locking bolts, driop and lock the auxilliary posts. It can’t go anywhere then.

The total Supershop weight pushes 600 lbs pretty hard. About 1/3 of that is in the assembled headstock. You can easily remove the motor and the quill and reduce it to about 150 lbs. Approximations of course.

DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com All my life I've wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.

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Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#192 posted 07-25-2019 06:26 PM

The R8 to 4Jt adapter arrived today. There’s plenty of metal for the threads, but not sure about the registration shoulder. It’s about 1 1/4” at is widest, so don’t know if a shoulder of 1/8” around the circumference is enough to properly register a chuck. The Penn State Industries Shopsmith 5/8” smooth bore to 1×8tpi adapter has a shoulder that’s a bit under 1 5/8” in diameter.

The adapter seem of decent quality, especially for the price—about $18 with tax.

Here’s a photo of the two adapters:

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Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#193 posted 07-25-2019 07:00 PM

Cyeks,here are some short videos by Smithy regarding the Supershop and other Smithy machines— https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD8444AFC55B12F5D Page down a bit and you’ll find the ones on the Supershop. Video number 52 covers the set-up process for attaching the machine to the stand and also covers info about adjusting the torsion spring. It’s worth watching if you haven’t seen it before.

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cyeks

14 posts in 88 days


#194 posted 07-25-2019 07:22 PM

Ted724, thanks for the link. I watched the whole set before I committed to buying the machine. I saw the parts about assembly and especially the warning about relieving the tension on the torsion spring. My purchase of the Smithy also included a VCR cassette tape that I think probably has the same video on it but it’s been awhile since I had a VCR!

I found an adjustable spanner wrench on Amazon but I’m just not sure if it will stand up to the forces of the torsion spring. The pins are a little large (0.275”) but I can file them down to fit. Just hope the axle holds up.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N1LJDZH/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=AH681HFJSGKNK&psc=1

I don’t have any experience with metalworking, just wood, but I can also try to whip something up. Do you guys think appropriate sized bolts would work through holes drilled in a metal bar? I’m thinking of just using the unthreaded shoulder of a bolt. The forces involved are just a little scary.

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Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#195 posted 07-25-2019 09:01 PM

Those guys in the video made tensioning that spring look so easy. So I guess if the tension applied was only one hole beyond an un-tensioned spring, then it would be quite easy to relieve the tension.

And, when I bought the Fox Supershop, two young guys, the sons of the seller, simply unbolted the machine from the base without taking tension off that lift spring and had no problem at all doing that. I cautioned them about the spring, but the didn’t think it was a problem and it wasn’t.

But my experience with the Smithy was entirely different as I explained earlier.

Regarding the Amazon adjustable spanner, it doesn’t look all that strong for the job. I think your idea of drilling a steel bar and using bolts is doable and the best approach, provided you can get the spacing correct. Grade 8 bolts probably would be better than run-of-the-mill bolts from someplace like Tractor Supply.

Another thing I thought about a wrench/spanner would be to take a large, heavy crescent wrench and drill holes in the sides of the jaws for those cut-off bolts. At least it would be adjustable, but I don’t know if it would be strong enough.

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GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#196 posted 07-26-2019 06:36 AM

HokieKen Thank you so much, PM sent! Looking forward to getting back to making shavings.

Dan K: Yeah, you linked that rest on eBay. Unfortunately, at the time I was only “inconvenienced” by the annoying SS rest, it hadn’t broken yet lol. It sold before I needed it.

I can attest to the weight of the power head, 2 person job for sure. And don’t rest it on the “bottom” plastic cover. Mine deformed a little and I had to use some straps and the sun to get it “right”. I moved it 5 times starting when I picked it up in FL through 2 moves to it’s current location. SO nice to lift the whole machine on it’s wheels and roll it around.

-- Making sawdust

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Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#197 posted 07-27-2019 10:48 PM



The R8 to 4Jt adapter arrived today. There s plenty of metal for the threads, but not sure about the registration shoulder. It s about 1 1/4” at is widest, so don t know if a shoulder of 1/8” around the circumference is enough to properly register a chuck. The Penn State Industries Shopsmith 5/8” smooth bore to 1×8tpi adapter has a shoulder that s a bit under 1 5/8” in diameter.

The adapter seem of decent quality, especially for the price—about $18 with tax.

Here s a photo of the two adapters:

- Ted724

Here are a couple of photos of the R8 to 4JT adapter modified with 1×8tpi threads—

As mentioned earlier there’s not much of a shoulder to register a chuck on the adapter after turning the 4JT end to 1×8 threads, so also used is a “donut” that provides adequate size and heft for registration. The “donut” is a bit over 3/8” thick and with it mounted there are about 1 1/8 of the threads exposed for mating with a chuck.

With a Nova chuck on this adapter (using the Nova “D” adapter for 1×8tpi spindles), I got .005 to .0055 runout on the outside rim of the chuck. I got .004 runout when I mounted the same chuck using a Nova 5/8” smooth bore adapter with my “Shopsmith” 5/8” drill rod spindle in a 5/8” R8 adapter. Don’t know how much runout there would be if the Nova was mounted directly to a lathe wih a 1×8 spindle.

While I don’t think I’ll use it as a substitute for my drill rod spindle with the Nova chucks, it’s a good fit for my 4-jaw independent chuck and the 3-jaw metalworking scroll chuck that are both threaded 1×8tpi. It also gets these chucks closer to the headstock bearing than using the Penn State Industries adapter with the drill rod spindle.

A competent machinist likely could knock one of these out in no time flat, but that’s not me. I feel lucky that I ended up with something that I can use.

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GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#198 posted 07-28-2019 06:39 AM

Wow Ted, thanks for the rundown. Do you think your results would be “typical” for any other shop making the adaption? I’ll need to get a dial indicator mounted, but I suspect my runout is more than yours looking at it, so I was hoping your adapter would be better.

-- Making sawdust

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Ted724

63 posts in 2167 days


#199 posted 07-28-2019 11:26 AM



Wow Ted, thanks for the rundown. Do you think your results would be “typical” for any other shop making the adaption? I ll need to get a dial indicator mounted, but I suspect my runout is more than yours looking at it, so I was hoping your adapter would be better.

- GordoB


I do expect a machinist would do better. I feel lucky that I got it this close. My machine and tooling aren’t really up to the task, nor are my machining skills. But, I ended up with something that will work, so I’m happy about that.

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GordoB

20 posts in 99 days


#200 posted 08-03-2019 06:16 AM

Warning: lots of pics

Got the banjo from HokieKen, AWESOME and at a great price. Already knew I’d have to “adapt” it, but didn’t know how. I wanted to retain the ease of the eccentric that allows the lever up front to lock it down. The first couple pics show what I started with:

Here’s what I needed to get to: The top is 3/8×16 to fit T-nuts of SuperShop

Chucked it up:

And started cutting:

I was NERVOUS. Haven’t cut metal in YEARS. Took a little while to practice on some other bolts.
Here’s what I got:

Got out the die today:

Works a treat!

Super happy!

-- Making sawdust

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