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View TonyArru's profile

Please help!! Lathe motor Boggs down with forstner bits!

by TonyArru
posted 04-21-2018 03:46 PM


27 replies so far

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

3123 posts in 2624 days


#1 posted 04-21-2018 03:53 PM

You don’t say what size bit. I would check for a slipping belt first. I have a 1/3 hp motor on my lathe and have no problems with up thru 3” forstner’s haven’t tried any larger.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 4099 days


#2 posted 04-21-2018 03:58 PM

Have you tried a spade bit?

They don’t make as nice a hole but they
cut easier.

View TonyArru's profile

TonyArru

84 posts in 2666 days


#3 posted 04-21-2018 04:12 PM

Sorry, I am trying to use my largest bit which is 1 1/2 inches. My hope is that it’s the belt…I certainly can not afford a new full size lathe.

-- Tony S. Arru, Connecticut

View thimmaker's profile

thimmaker

17 posts in 573 days


#4 posted 04-21-2018 04:31 PM

Is the motor stopping? or is the belt slipping? If its just the belt slipping put more tension on it or rub on a little belt dressing.

-- thimmaker

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

4695 posts in 1041 days


#5 posted 04-21-2018 04:50 PM

I assume you’re trying to drill into the end grain. That’s the toughest to do because you’re cutting across the wood fibers. I’d also guess that Woodcraft Forstner bits aren’t the sharpest out there.

Try the spade bits that were mentioned. Less friction, but you’re still dealing with the grain issue.

-- My grandfather always said that when one door closes, another one opens. He was a wonderful man, but a lousy cabinet maker

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1351 days


#6 posted 04-21-2018 04:51 PM

Might try using smaller bits and working your way up.

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

3123 posts in 2624 days


#7 posted 04-21-2018 04:54 PM

Try tightening the belt first then replace it. That is a poly v belt, belt dressing only makes a mess on v or poly v belts.
I’m using a 1/3 hp motor on a 4 speed lathe and have no problems running a 3” wood river forstner bit if I keep the belt reasonably tight.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View JollyGreen67's profile

JollyGreen67

1676 posts in 3214 days


#8 posted 04-21-2018 04:57 PM

Sharpen the bit ? Capt Eddy will show you how.

-- When I was a kid I wanted to be older . . . . . this CRAP is not what I expected ! RIP 09/08/2018

View TonyArru's profile

TonyArru

84 posts in 2666 days


#9 posted 04-21-2018 06:19 PM

I’m glad to hear that some of you are having no trouble with similar tasks on your smaller lathes as well…my wife would not be happy if I told her I need a new lathe already.
And thank you for all of your thoughts so far…
The problem with the belt tentionnis that the motor moves up and down, as some of you may know, to make the belt looser or tighter. Well, I’m my case the motor is as far down as it can go. Meaning it’s resrinf on the table already. Does this mean my belt is too big? Or stretched over time? Also, if I made foot pads for my lathe, raising it up and inch or so…perhaps I could get more tension that way…does that sound like a viable option to anyone? Thanks again!

-- Tony S. Arru, Connecticut

View bigJohninvegas's profile

bigJohninvegas

644 posts in 1913 days


#10 posted 04-21-2018 07:10 PM

I had that Rockler excelsior mini lathe to start with. So that is what I have to compare your lathe too. Same style belt adjustment. I would first say that yes your belt is stretched out. With my rockler lathe, and my newer Jet 16X42. The belt is not much tighter than the weight of the motor put on it. And I was never close to the travel limit on the adjuster. I would also use a slow speed like 500 rpm, and feed the bit very slow backing out often to clear the chips.
I need to give the spade bit a try too. Much cheaper than a forstner, so if it works go for it.
good luck.

-- John

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waho6o9

8710 posts in 3028 days


#11 posted 04-21-2018 07:13 PM

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2693 posts in 2586 days


#12 posted 04-21-2018 07:23 PM

You can try slowing down your rate of speed stop before motor stalls and back out more often.

Using this procedure my change geometry of the drill bit.

https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/drilling-boring/how-to-sharpen-forstner-bits?mode=step_by_step

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCpPICubruc

I am like Eddie only touch up those edges he is showing even if have a tooth bit. I use a diamond file or card to tough up my bits only takes couple seconds.

-- Bill

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johnstoneb

3123 posts in 2624 days


#13 posted 04-21-2018 09:03 PM

Yes your belt has stretched to much from age or it is the wrong size. You might be able to get a little more adjustment by raising the lathe. That might give you some time to use the lathe while you are getting the right belt. ply v belts don’t need a lot of tension when they are in good shape because each v is pulling down into the groove giving you a lot of surface tension for friction. When they wear they slowly get narrower and eventually just the tip of the v is making contact and you loose all that surface and you have to replace the belt.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View TonyArru's profile

TonyArru

84 posts in 2666 days


#14 posted 04-21-2018 09:41 PM

Hello everyone and thank you for all the feed back. So here’s an update…
I did not try the spade but because why did I spend all this money on forstner bits! Lol! But I did try starting with a smaller forstner bit and working my way up…that worked okay until I got to about a 1 1/4” bit. Then all I was getting was dust and smoke…so i lowered the speed to 500 rpm. Then I got less smoke and less progress into the piece. BUT at this speed it was safe to check the motor which was indeed still running while the belt stayed stationary!! So, I will be ordering a new belt ASAP and hopefully these turning troubles will be in the past to make room for more troubles!
Thank you to Bruce, for all the v grove info, it easy to understand now how a belt would wear out over time….I probabaky have the original belt on this lathe from 10 years ago.

-- Tony S. Arru, Connecticut

View jonal's profile

jonal

7 posts in 741 days


#15 posted 04-22-2018 12:25 AM

I recently purchased a 2” Woodcraft fostner for a project I was working on. Brought it home, chucked it up in the drill press and man was I disappointed. Would not cut through the maple I was working with. Switched to pine, almost as bad. I looked closely at the cutting edge and it was literally chipped and burred. Took it back to Woodcraft and we looked through all of their Woodcraft branded forstners…almost all were so poorly sharpened that even the sales guy was shocked. Literally through the packaging you could see the chips in the cutting edge. Taking some out of the packaging they all had burrs and were dull as hell. They gave me my money back, I went to HD, bought a 2” Diablo and it cut perfectly – as a forstner should.

I suggest you try a different brand. While the diablos are not the premier bit, I think it is more the poor quality of the Woodcraft bits.

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TonyArru

84 posts in 2666 days


#16 posted 04-22-2018 04:40 AM

That’s good to know…tomorrow I will inspect all of the bits. They definitely are not the same quaility that i have come to expect from the woodcraft name nor the premium price. I could have bought these for half the price on eBay or amazon from China…woodcraft, I found out, bought theirs from China. But because they put their name on it, I trusted them.
Any other brands of forstner bits that are good? Let me know, I’m recently in the market for a new set.

-- Tony S. Arru, Connecticut

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jonal

7 posts in 741 days


#17 posted 04-22-2018 09:44 AM

I’m sure there are probably lots of good advice if you search for it on this forum. I bought the diablo because it was available locally not because they get high ratings. My experience with the Wood River bits really turned me off to them. I hear a lot about the Fisch forstners (I have some of their brad point spiral bits and they are awesome). Stumpy Nubs die a review of different styles of forstners if you search his site.

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2693 posts in 2586 days


#18 posted 04-22-2018 10:25 AM

JMHO using forstner bits to drill end or side grain should not make a difference if bits are sharp. A slight difference whether drilling soft woods or hard woods and number of RPM’s will differ some.

Downloaded a simple forstner bit drill speed chart years ago that cannot find anymore, but this one should work.

http://images.meredith.com/wood/images/pdf/speedchart.pdf

In shop notes collum they give some good general adive about clearing chips often and make several passes with larger bits.

My drilling procedures vary depending upon how deep am drilling and species of wood and type of bit (brad, twist, or forstner bit) used. One constant in my procedures is clear the hole & bit of debris often.

While never never allow bits whether small or large to air cool between passes when drilling will adjust speeds up or down if have too. Do use paraffin wax on my bits to cool if drilling deep holds after backing out after cleaning bit of debris.

Do back out by moving my tail stock back if drilling deep or just use hand wheel when only drilling 1/4” or so. Will clean bits of dust and chips with either brush, shop vac, or compressed air.

-- Bill

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

4695 posts in 1041 days


#19 posted 04-22-2018 02:22 PM


JMHO using forstner bits to drill end or side grain should not make a difference if bits are sharp. A slight difference whether drilling soft woods or hard woods and number of RPM s will differ some.

- Wildwood

Drilling difficulty isn’t a matter of opinion — either it is or it isn’t more difficult to drill into end grain. I’ve experienced it, and even with a sharp 1/4” bit drilling for dowels for face frames, the force required to push the drill bit into the end grain of the rails is significantly greater than the force to drill cross grain on the stiles.

With a Forstner bit, even a sharp one, the effect would be greater since you are cutting across the grain rather than slicing it from the side. Think about whittling. Is it easier to cut with the grain or across it? I think we all know the answer to that one.

Search around and you’ll see numerous postings about problems drilling end grain with forstner bits.

-- My grandfather always said that when one door closes, another one opens. He was a wonderful man, but a lousy cabinet maker

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Wildwood

2693 posts in 2586 days


#20 posted 04-22-2018 04:44 PM

Rich merely expressing my opinion from experience drilling both ways using forstner bits! If your personal opinion and experience differs from mine no sweat.

Well aware of some folks have problems drilling end grain with forstner bits but not all! What’s their experience level, do they clear chips often? What R PM’s are they running on the lathe or drill press? Are they drilling hard or soft woods and characteristics of that species of wood?

Will leave quality of drill bits alone already discussed here.

Been using a box set of Grizzly guess made in China bought about 18 years ago. My 1st more expensive set of forstner bits set destroyed due to my ignorance, burning bits while drilling and improperly sharpening.

-- Bill

View TonyArru's profile

TonyArru

84 posts in 2666 days


#21 posted 04-24-2018 01:12 PM

So, heres another update….Upon closer inspection of my Woodcraft (now called Woodcrap) forstner bits , which were made in China….I noticed that they were not only very dull, but the steele appears to be very soft and not of the high quality material that I associate with the rest of the Woodcrap products.
I ended up sharpening my bits a little with a fine metal file, they seemed to work better after that. I also started with a smaller bit and stepped up each time. I now have a decent sized opening in my hollow form. I know there has to be a better way to do this still…

-- Tony S. Arru, Connecticut

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1588 posts in 2182 days


#22 posted 04-24-2018 02:49 PM

Back when I started my cabinet/furniture shop back in ‘78, I used some European type hinges that required a 1 1/2” hole. Bought a carbide bit from the supplier of the hinges. Did the job, and then Blum made their appearance a few years later, and I ended up using their stuff. Had to purchase their bit as their stuff was 35mm (1 3/8”). Kept the other all these years, and just started using it in the last 2 years.

If you can afford to buy carbide bits, do it. As long as you don’t hit rocks or nails, they should last at least 500 pieces before you have to get them sharpened. ............... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View TonyArru's profile

TonyArru

84 posts in 2666 days


#23 posted 04-24-2018 03:25 PM

I guess this is a novice lesson learned, Not to trust a “name brand” and always buy the best tool that I can afford, rather than saving a few bucks. Although, I really thought i was buying a quality product from an exclusive supplier of fine woodworking tools. I had no idea that the same store that sells Festool products would also sell this garbage.
I suppose I will keep this set for now, and learn to sharpen forstner bits really well. My next set will be carbide thats for sure, its not worth all the trouble.

Thank goodness for Lumberjocks though, what a great way to help sort out an issue and get some good feedback from all you experienced veterans! Thank you all.

-- Tony S. Arru, Connecticut

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

5666 posts in 4115 days


#24 posted 04-24-2018 10:27 PM

IMHO, WoodCraft has become sort of like Sears … they don’t make anything themselves, and anything with their badge on it is made by some manufacturer who may or may not have decent quality control.

Back in the day when Craftsman was a brand name you could bank on, Sears was contracting with reputable, US-based manufacturers. When they started manufacturing off-shore to cut costs, quality control went to pot.

I think WoodCraft is going down the same path.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View marcsitkin's profile

marcsitkin

28 posts in 1208 days


#25 posted 04-25-2018 08:16 PM

I’d suggest looking into a 1” twist bit like Victor Tools offers

It’s much easier to drill end grain with a bit like this. As my friend Jim says, “A forstner bit on end grain is only good if you want to start a fire”

He’s a very experienced production turner, and knows of what he speaks! I’ve seen him use this bit, and it works well.

-- Thanks, Marc Sitkin, Harwich, MA

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12870 posts in 2832 days


#26 posted 04-26-2018 07:09 AM

Really, a Forstner is probably the toughest way to bore into end grain. A spade bit (good quality like Irwin) will get it done and produce a fairly smooth hole that you can clean up with a scraper if necessary.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View jimintx's profile

jimintx

917 posts in 2036 days


#27 posted 04-26-2018 03:04 PM

Drilling end grain with forester bits has been a topic a few times here. I started one of them. In my case the advice I used to make it work nicely was to increase my speed, and to sharpen the bit, even though it was a brand new one form Rockler.

It ides not really surprise me that forester bits need to be sharpened and tuned. After all, it is remarkably common for people to spend a lot more on a hand plane and then take out the plane iron for sharpening. And wood workers always seem to be okay with pricey chisels that are delivered new and yet in need of sharpening.

If you use the search line on the site and type in “drilling end grain’ or some such, you will find a lot more comments. Good luck!

lumberjocks.com/topics/148250

lumberjocks.com/topics/256625

lumberjocks.com/topics/49397

-- Jim, Houston, TX

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